Darth Vader Posted September 3, 2007 Posted September 3, 2007 Woggle / DV - you are not listening - my wife does not nag, moan etc. In fact she is the opposite - she wants and values her and my independence - when I bought my 58" LCD she came with me and helped choose it!!! As Izzy said, that don't keep me warm, talk to me, provide sexual or emotional interest. My wife did that exclusively. Way to go on the 58"er! As far as that last statement goes, that's past tense, unfortunately! No, they don't keep you warm and all, but, you had better have the right wife, or you can hang it up!
Gunny376 Posted September 4, 2007 Posted September 4, 2007 psych...you are not alone, we here have all felt that pain you describe. we have become a society where instant gratification is acceptable, as well as encouraged (credit card apps, etc). if you are not "happy" with the current item, "partner", it can easily be discarded and replaced! no need to wait and save or salvage...you can get a better, updated model. i find it sickening to say the least. i did not marry my ex of many yrs., because of his past leaving me and cheating...more than once. i needed some stability and reasurrance, then when finally, i was ready....oh yes, hmmmm...he left and cheated!!!! i know the devastation you speak of. throughout these past months, i had been crazed with thoughts of him..the whys, the oh, i was sooo stupid, the what ifs, etc. he literally occupied my mind throughout the day, i prayed for relief. it's been 6 mo. since contact, and i can say that there are days i relish in living a "normal" life with only scattered thoughts of him. then there are the low days that still haunt me. but....i can say, i do not feel the physical pain, the awful gut-wretching ache, the deep forlorn. i am saddened by his dismissal (after 10 yrs.)..he was very cold and cutting, but, i am able to see his flaws now, too. i think initially we tend to glorify our ex. i am so sorry for your pain. i can tell you, i've found a wealth of support from this site...keep posting. it's unfortunate, but it seems once the other even attempts to leave, the groundwork has been set. you know now that they can easily dismiss you and the relationship. i did get back with my ex in the past, and again, the pattern repeats....the pain of going through those emotions is unbearable(and now, might i add unneccesary). i cannot understand how someone can simply disregard their partner in such a cold manner without remorse. please trust, although it seems impossible now, things will get better...sleep will return, eating habits will resume..even those awful first thoughts in the AM lessen in intensity. you WILL make it through this. and not only that, but you will gain some powerful insight for you future. the ball is in her court, she knows how you feel, and that is all you can offer. as you describe your story/emotions, i can easily relate to that "mental state", it's a long journey, but it will get easier. i don't believe the pain ever goes away,( lessens) but, i do believe it gets managable. take care of yourself, know that you are not alone, and there are many good folks here to offer support...keep posting! tinke? Why not ripe your heart out and fling it! Ooooooooraaaaah! YOU ARE A SPARITIAN!
sumdude Posted September 4, 2007 Posted September 4, 2007 it's unfortunate, but it seems once the other even attempts to leave, the groundwork has been set. you know now that they can easily dismiss you and the relationship. i did get back with my ex in the past, and again, the pattern repeats....the pain of going through those emotions is unbearable(and now, might i add unneccesary). I think this is the biggest reason I would be against reconciliation should my stbx suddenly do an about face ... When someone leaves you once they know they have the power to do so again. The other can feel inside regardless of how things are going that it could happen again at any time and can't give trust which affects how the other acts too. Going through this pain and craziness again would be almost unimaginable. Also most who leave usually end up telling some lies in the process. Playing the part of someone still in the relationship for a while when at the same time thinking and planning the 'escape'. If there's an affair involved it's incredible the deception that happens. How do you rebuild a relationship with that sort of lurking uncertainty? Where do you find real trust there? In my case my stbx didn't even let me know or discuss leaving other than to send out strange hints so I went into a pretty crazy phase where I did some damage out of panic. These same things also make forming new relationships hard too. Perhaps I'll always wonder when the next one will leave.. hope I can get over that thinking. Once the separation happens a whole lot of other things snowball ... changes in how others see the two of you. The one left usually goes into a crazy emotional state and act in a way they can't always help but end up making the one who left even more sure. People take sides, harsh words and opinions come out. Freindships change, the families see things differently. The amount of repair is huge. Perhaps not unsurmountable but for the couple to rebuild both have to be incredibly commited to it and without doubts. I think a lot of those who initiate the separation may not realize the runaway train of events that begin. If it isn't well planned with ground rules set and some sort of end game plan it's pretty much the end of the road.
Gunny376 Posted September 4, 2007 Posted September 4, 2007 I think this is the biggest reason I would be against reconciliation should my stbx suddenly do an about face ... When someone leaves you once they know they have the power to do so again. The other can feel inside regardless of how things are going that it could happen again at any time and can't give trust which affects how the other acts too. Going through this pain and craziness again would be almost unimaginable. Also most who leave usually end up telling some lies in the process. Playing the part of someone still in the relationship for a while when at the same time thinking and planning the 'escape'. If there's an affair involved it's incredible the deception that happens. How do you rebuild a relationship with that sort of lurking uncertainty? Where do you find real trust there? In my case my stbx didn't even let me know or discuss leaving other than to send out strange hints so I went into a pretty crazy phase where I did some damage out of panic. These same things also make forming new relationships hard too. Perhaps I'll always wonder when the next one will leave.. hope I can get over that thinking. Once the separation happens a whole lot of other things snowball ... changes in how others see the two of you. The one left usually goes into a crazy emotional state and act in a way they can't always help but end up making the one who left even more sure. People take sides, harsh words and opinions come out. Freindships change, the families see things differently. The amount of repair is huge. Perhaps not unsurmountable but for the couple to rebuild both have to be incredibly commited to it and without doubts. I think a lot of those who initiate the separation may not realize the runaway train of events that begin. If it isn't well planned with ground rules set and some sort of end game plan it's pretty much the end of the road. WOW! You've come a long way in your thinking! A long way in a short time! :bunny::bunny:
butterfly37 Posted September 4, 2007 Posted September 4, 2007 How are you doing today Psch? I know that weekends are hard.
Gunny376 Posted September 4, 2007 Posted September 4, 2007 How are you doing today Psch? I know that weekends are hard. WOW! Why don't you act like a human being that just gives a damn ABOUT another beside themselves?! AWESOME~! BTW! Your DH was and is a FOOL to cast perals before SWINE! YOUR FOUR CHILDREN HAVE BEEN BLESSED TO HAVE A MOTHER SUCH AS YOU! YOU ROCK!!!!!
Author Psch1968 Posted September 4, 2007 Author Posted September 4, 2007 Hi all - well w/e was sort of up & down, I guess thats to be expected. We had some good moments (dinner on Friday night, laughing, even talking about the R - she said she felt I had had a spiritual awakeneing such was the change in me in the last 4 weeks!). Tried to give her time and space (just went out to friends etc) and was bubbly and happy around her. But then got back Mon afternoon from shopping and she was still packing her stuff. I could hardly breathe. One of our close friends who knows us both has told me today that in their honest opinion, I should keep fighting by just giving her time and space, let her go, and see if she starts to miss me - and then re-engage if she initiates. So much like the rest of the advice here. I asked them for brute honesty, so do not think they are sugar coating this, which I appreciate. So the longest and hardest week of my life (she moves out Sat) is really difficult (2 hrs sleep last night) but I am keeping going, keeping busy, and trying to give her space, time, and no pressure. If it works, great, if it doesn't I will know I tried my best. And I will be at peace with myself for that. Thanks for asking b37 - like Gunny, have to say you are an awesome woman, what is your H playing at!!!!!!! :-)
Author Psch1968 Posted September 5, 2007 Author Posted September 5, 2007 Morning everyone - 4 hours last night - I guess thats progress!!! So tonite is our last night under same roof (tomorrow & Friday I am staying with friends) and likely last chance to talk. One of my friends believes I should talk to her about what happens next, try and see if she is willing to agree some ground rules (no sexual partners etc), but do so in a respectful manner so that if she gets annoyed and angry, I can easily back away again. Any thoughts pls - 12 hours and counting.......
PWSX3 Posted September 5, 2007 Posted September 5, 2007 Morning everyone - 4 hours last night - I guess thats progress!!! So tonite is our last night under same roof (tomorrow & Friday I am staying with friends) and likely last chance to talk. One of my friends believes I should talk to her about what happens next, try and see if she is willing to agree some ground rules (no sexual partners etc), but do so in a respectful manner so that if she gets annoyed and angry, I can easily back away again. Any thoughts pls - 12 hours and counting....... When me & my W separated we went to our counselor & talked about the different things, what bills were going to be split, if we could date or not (which both of us agreed to not to do) the arrangements for our son, etc. etc. Our MC also had each of us write up a agreement & then we sat down & read them together & out of the two we made one & then we both signed it. Our separation might be different because the hole time my W told me she just needed her space, needed time to be alone for a while & I really feel that divorce wasn't the 1st thing on her mind, but I feel this was her last try & making our marriage work but I don't know for sure.
butterfly37 Posted September 5, 2007 Posted September 5, 2007 In my opinion, rules aren't worth the paper that they are written on Psch. It's just putting pressure on her. Making her take a defensive stance again. I'd just stick to pulling back. I know that you may be feeling a *tad* panicked right now, but keep your composure. Strong, confident, mysterious. Think: "I am Antonio Banderas. I am Zorro! I am her Latin lover...." Do yourself and her a huge favor.....Don't even be there when she leaves. No final pleas, no letters, no "I love you"s. Open the cage door and let her go. Just leave her a red rose....... Then get busy on living your life. What do you have to do to become the person that you want to be? What do you have to do to bring peace and joy to your soul? What is it going to take to bring that sparkle to your eyes? What are women attracted to(and your W is a woman)? A strong, confident, caring man that is happy with who he is in this world. We want a prince. And we want to be the princess. I am having a nagging feeling to suggest two books to you at this point. Wild at Heart and Captivating by John & Stasi Eldredge. YOU CAN DO THIS!!!!
Author Psch1968 Posted September 5, 2007 Author Posted September 5, 2007 b37 - so how about this instead. Tonite when I see her, I simply say ... "I understand how you feel and I know we need some space right now to see what we each want for ourselves and I respect you for that. I do ask though that we can remain loyal to each other for the time being and if for any reason we do find ourselves gaining interest in someone else that we will be up front and honest with each other about it. I love you and I want you to be happy. I am here if you need me, even if it is just to have someone to talk to" Then Saturday, I help her load her stuff into the van (I have already committed to her to help her do that) and then ask that she text me later in the day just to let me know she got to her new house safe and sound. ??
butterfly37 Posted September 5, 2007 Posted September 5, 2007 Haven't those things been said already? Read what you just wrote. Does that sound like it's going to pique her curiosity? Or does it sound needy? Remember, it's a final impression that you are leaving her with......
Author Psch1968 Posted September 5, 2007 Author Posted September 5, 2007 I just dont believe that asking for continued respect while we are apart is needy. I think on the contrary, it shows self respect and that I am strong enough to accept her decision if she chooses an alternative path.
butterfly37 Posted September 5, 2007 Posted September 5, 2007 You did say that you read Love Must Be Tough, right?
Author Psch1968 Posted September 5, 2007 Author Posted September 5, 2007 yes - and in chapter 6 (I think) it talks about the dumpee (Linda!) stating to her fella that she loves him but that she will not accept 2nd best any longer and that he is free to go with her best wishes. Aka Tough Love equals making sure that you respect yourself first, let your partner 'out of the cage' so they are free, but not without a clear message. Did I read and interpret incorrectly?
butterfly37 Posted September 5, 2007 Posted September 5, 2007 Yes, I think that you read and interpretted correctly. But my impression is that you've already let her know that you love her and that you are respecting yourself and also respecting her right to make the decision for herself. Am I correct that you've already done that? Second, does she feel that she stands to loose something great or does she feel that you are waiting in the wings while she is off "making her decision"? I don't have my book here with me at work. But I do know that it is clear in the book that you also have to make her realize what she stands to loose.
Author Psch1968 Posted September 5, 2007 Author Posted September 5, 2007 So I have told her I love her - yes. I have told her I will fight for us - yes. I have told her I want her in my life - yes. What I have not done I feel is make it clear what she is losing - it is not a 'material possesion thing', it is not me saying I am perfect etc, but I want to get across in the right way, before she leaves the house, that while I respect her right to decide what she wants to do and that I respect that this time will help in that process, I will not just wait forever for her to decide - there has to be boundaries and one of those is not disrespecting me by going off and having an affair. So how do I do this?
butterfly37 Posted September 5, 2007 Posted September 5, 2007 Like it says in the book, you make it clear that an affair is THE DEAL BREAKER. And that there is NO going back from there. And make sure that she believes it. That means that you also have to be willing to let it be the deal breaker. If there is someone else, you and her have NOTHING. Do not be part of her triangle. Do not let her have her cake and ice cream too. Do not let her disrespect you. Do not be her doormat. If she chooses someone else over you....let her go. It is a scary thought, but it's not the end of the world. And who knows what the future holds? Maybe she'll see things differently down the road. I know that my X is struggling right now with my new-found self respect. Psch, I've been going through this for just about five years. I'm telling you what I know looking back.
Author Psch1968 Posted September 5, 2007 Author Posted September 5, 2007 Exactly B37, exactly. So that brings me full circle to my intent to say to her what I said in my post this morning - if I was told that it would make clear to me that if I go over that line, everything is over (marriage & friendship) and that if I were to try and conceal my affair, I know I am jeopardising that all.
butterfly37 Posted September 5, 2007 Posted September 5, 2007 b37 - so how about this instead. Tonite when I see her, I simply say ... "I understand how you feel and I know we need some space right now to see what we each want for ourselves and I respect you for that. I do ask though that we can remain loyal to each other for the time being and if for any reason we do find ourselves gaining interest in someone else that we will be up front and honest with each other about it. I love you and I want you to be happy. I am here if you need me, even if it is just to have someone to talk to" Then Saturday, I help her load her stuff into the van (I have already committed to her to help her do that) and then ask that she text me later in the day just to let me know she got to her new house safe and sound. ?? Okay, but when I read this yet again, it still seems needy and clingy. Sorry. Just being honest with you. I think you have to tweak it a bit. Fundamentally, it's good. But it will make a world of difference in how it's delivered. Yes, you are respecting her choices to ask for space and to make the decision. I'm not so comfortable with the part of you asking her to be loyal to you. This is where you need to be very strong about what constitutes the deal breaker. And you could let her know again that you love her. But it's already known to her how much you do love her. And yes, you want her to be happy but feeling guilty for a selfish decision doesn't usually bring them the happiness that they are looking for. But don't make her feel guilty. Remember, it's about how you make her feel when she is with you. So this could be tricky. You've already committed yourself to helping her move, so you have to do that. You can't be unreliable. But I wouldn't ask her to call you to let you know that "she made it to her new place safe and sound". She's a big girl. She can take care of herself. Don't treat her like a child. Put the ball in her court. Let's work on the delivery a bit.....l
butterfly37 Posted September 5, 2007 Posted September 5, 2007 "I'm trying to be understanding of how you feel and I will respect your right to ask for some time and space to make some potentially life-changing decisions for your life. I am letting you know however that there are conditions to this separation. I want you to know that being with another man is THE deal breaker for me. There is no going back once you've stepped over that line. I know that you have some major decisions to make about what you can and can't live with or without. I do love you and I want you to be happy. The next step is completely up to you." Then Saturday, help her load her stuff into the van (you've already committed to help her do that) and then give her a short hug (don't hold onto longer than she is comfortable with) and say goodbye (name). If she has any feelings for you, she'll already be struggling enough as it is. Keep it short and simple. She does have a conscience and any added pressure for you will only be turned into contempt. What do you think?
butterfly37 Posted September 5, 2007 Posted September 5, 2007 These situations remind me of an old folk tale: The Story of Two Wolves An older Cherokee man is teaching his Grandson about life. "A fight is going on inside me," he says to the boy. "It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves." One is Evil. He is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, selfishness, arrogance, self pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority and ego. The other is Good. He is LOVE, joy, peace, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith. This same fight is going on inside you and inside every other person." The Grandson thinks about this for a minute and then asks his Grandfather, "Which wolf will win?" The old Cherokee replies, "The one you feed."
Author Psch1968 Posted September 5, 2007 Author Posted September 5, 2007 Sounds good - but its now tea time, and way I am thinking is to call her bluff, and say I want a divorce - sorry just having one of those 'is she can do this to me, why should I invest anything into our M or any possible R'. What have I got to lose by telling her its over and going our seperate ways - I am losing her anyway...
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