Hurt & nowhere to turn

[Gunny376]

Out with friends on my last night before returning home - they reminded me of some key facts:

1. While I have made many mistakes, it takes two to tango in every marriage and only one to walk off the dancefloor

 

2. Her current feelings are all negative because she is subconsciously blocking away the positive images of our marriage because the feelings of hurt and resentment have spilled over

 

3. At 39, with no kids, and a great career, the world is still my oyster

 

4. While my wife will not benefit from the changes I am going to make (because she is leaving) my next relationship will be better for this pain I am currently going through

 

5. Ultimately, whether she finds happiness elsewhere or not, there is a high likelihood that she will look back and wish that if nothing else, she had talked and understood our issues and our challenges together rather than heading for the exit door emotionally and physically so quickly because of the way she is feeling today

 

While none of these remove the pain of seeing her move out, which I am fully now expecting to happen in the next 2-3 weeks, they are images that I need to ensure I keep at the forefront of my mind, so that I can obtain closure earlier.

 

They also reminded me that rather than hanging around and waiting for her to 'one day' come to her senses, I had to just move on with my life and accept that the very high likelihood is that once she leaves, she will not comeback. I think this is a key lesson for many on here - when the heart is broken, the dumpee often seeks any +ve they can grab (be it religious, spiritual, or fanciful) in the hope their ex may decide that he or she will suddenly change their mind. Yes it does happen - but the overwhelming evidence is that it does not (just read the stuff here right). So why its key to go through the emotional chain of upset, fear, anger, and denial, the sooner the mind is cleanmsed and refreshed and moves onto hope, the sooner both parties in the broken marriage can move on.

 

While I am sick today and will be worse later when I eventually arrive home and 'hear the music', I will wake up Monday morning with my health, my career, my family, my friends, and a new world of hope. Perhaps the saddest part of all this, is that for my marriage to have survived, my wife and I should have been discussing this annually to kepe the equilibrium sound, instead of now when one party can't see past the exit sign, and the other can't even see that.

 

As always, have found this board and the people, their advice very therapeutic - so a big thanks. I will post an update Monday because the advice is very much appreciated - keep it coming please.

 

 

WOW!

 

You're making amazing progress!

 

It takes some years to get where your at along the path. The path is a long and narrow one ~ and can be a very difficult one! Hard and treacherous! Not for the weak-minded, nor the weak-hearted!

 

You do understand that this is about your learning, growning, maturing as a person, don't you? Its about your becoming more and better of what you are! As a person!

 

Not that you were flawed, but life is about learning, growning, maturing ~ to be all and to become all that you can be and the potential of becoming.

 

When you don't live up to the challenge of that ~ Life not only throws your azz a curve ball, it'll beam you right between the eyes with one! "Wake-up!" it says, "You're not living up to your full potential! You've gotten soft, and "complacent! You've gotten lazy!

 

I'm very much convinced that this life, the planet isn't about our being Earthly beings having a spiritual experience, but that we're truly are Spiritual beings having an Earthly experience. I think the reason we're born? Is to come to the planet, and to grow and learn as spiritual beings.

 

The lesson?

 

Un-conditional acceptance and love for one another. And that can be a hard lesson to learn.

 

When we die? We just return to our orginal state of being as "Spiritual Beings"

 

Think I'm wrong?

 

Mathmatically, an eighth-dimensional person could walk through a three dimesional wall. Not me talking ~ phyiscs and mathematics. (Source: Discover magazine and a book titled "The Physics of Immotatality")

[Psch1968]

So to cut a long story short - my wife remains convinced that her feelings have changed, that whatever I might do, we would be delaying the inevitable, and that for both our sakes, she needs to pursue this course of action.

 

We actually had a very measured, positive, and open discussion (ironically) both Sunday and Monday night, where I felt like the door was still possibly just ajar (literally just) - but I have communicated to her that I cannot convince her, that she has to make her choice, that if we seperate we will ultimately both recover from the deep pain we feel now, and that we deserve to be with someone who wants to be by their side. I want to be by hers, she doesn't by mine - and thats the crux of the problem.

 

Not sure what happens next - she has started viewing other places, so I guess its agree a date, figure what I do on the day she moves (I am sure it will be about as horrible as it can get), and agree what to do with dogs, furniture etc. I can;t bear the thought of living in an empty house without her, so will probably sell up (great timing right?) and move to a smaller rental myself. And then the healing and re-building must begin.

 

If only she could see whats in front of her......

 

Thank you all for your kind words, they are a source of comfort in an incredibly painful period of my life.

[Psch1968]

We talked again last night - well more me than her (70/30) - but then in our relationship to date to offten it has been the other way around so no bad thing I guess. At least I am getting my points across, explaining what was going on, why things happened, and having the opportunity to apologise for things that have clearly created upset and anger.

 

A lot boils down to prioritisation of her, and communication - sound familiar right, I see it so often on here, but doesn't lessen the pain of looking back on my mistakes, when the wife I really do love so much is about to walk away.

 

What has become clear is that she sees this step as terminal - this is not a trial, space, etc this is I am sure a step away which she sees conclusing in divorce (she has never said that but she is just so cool, quiet, offish, etc). Asked me to sleep in the 2nd bedroom, won't let me touch her, etc.

 

It doesn't look good - can anyone give me a story of hope where they went through this and turned it around?

 

I know if I show the tough love many here have advocated, I will not get the answer I want (she keeps saying its too late, she doesnt feel the same way anymore, she doesnt love me that way etc), yet she seems to want to stay friends.

 

All the signals I know are very clear, its over, but for those who have read any of my posts, I am not giving up. Yes I made mistakes, yes I have hurt her emotionally, and yes it feels hopeless, but surely giving up would send her the message (if she needs another one) that I wasn't even prepared to fight for her??

 

I can see tough love working where one partner is undecided, wavering etc, but until she is at that place, and all the signals tell me she is not, tough love = terminality!

 

My friends tell me to keep hope - she has not moved out yet, she is about to start a new job, your efforts may just pay dividends (if not now, and if not before she leaves, then perhaps 3/6/9 months down the road), she might be wavering and all my efforts may be sowing some doubt in her mind, maybe showing her that I will change and stop causing the damage I have caused before. Not sure if they are just trying to keep my chin up......

 

Part of me wants this over so I can get on, grieve, and recover - but a much bigger part of me wants to keep fighting, keep showing her despite the lack of reciprocation that I am the person she can have a happy future with, keep showing her how important she is in my life, etc.

 

Nearly booked a big romantic event on Friday, but my friends convinced me not a good idea (if she is feeling cold an attempt to be romantic will backfire - they are right) but its an attempt to show her how much she means to me. They advised I take her out for a walk with the dogs and try and continue to listen, understand, and learn. Will probing her annoy her further, will continuing to try and reason with her push her away, am I better placed to do 180 and say to her we need to decide what we are doing here (even though I am 90% sure I'll get the 'I will move out' news)?

 

Any females who may have been in this situation, your advice would be most welcome.

[butterfly37]

Psch, why don't you try giving her exactly what she is asking for and only what she is asking for. She's watching every move you make. Women want strong men. Not ones that will crawl begging and pleading. Tell her that you want to be everything that she needs. If she needs a friend right now, be her friend. Let her know that you respect her decision. It's not one that she is making on a whim. I can assure you that she is agonizing over it too. Back off. Do some things for yourself. Become a bit mysterious. Us women are curious as cats. But be there when she calls and wants to talk. Be there if she needs you to do something for her. And be truly thankful that it is you that she calls. Put the smile in your voice when she is talking to you. Show her how delighted that you are that she is opening up to you when she does. Until then, respect her right to make a decision in her life even if it is a bad one. Putting the pressure on her will only make her dig in her heals and fight harder. She's testing you. She might move out. My husband did. We had some very memorable times at "his house". He has even filed for divorce. I'm thinking this: Divorce papers are just that. Papers. He's just trying to feel like his life is gooing somewhere. But he still can't feel like he's made a good choice. His conscience is working overtime. The more hopeless it seems, the more understanding and sweeter I get. And to be honest with you, he can't stay away from me. He says that I am the best person that he's ever known and that he will love me until the day he dies. Unfortunately, he has another woman in his life that he has involved himself with. She is expecting things from him. He doesn't want to hurt her or let her down. Pride is a huge thing for him. But he will be humbled. He's been living another life for 5 years. That's not an easy thing to deal with. And he doesn't want to let me go. He's scared he's made the wrong decision because of the feelings that he still has for me. And because he knows that I'm the only person that really knows him. The only one that accepts him for who he really is. He misses how I make him feel. He doesn't want another man to have that. But he feels trapped in the life that he's been living for the past 5 years. Even if she wins temporarily, I will win in the end. Either way. I'm still his best friend and nothing will ever change that. Be strong. Work on other areas of your life to make yourself more attractive and interesting. Show her that you are the lighthouse in the storm.

[mourningMM]

Not sure which point to make first.

 

1) If she is unhappy, why isn't SHE leaving the house?

2) Giving a person "space" doen't need to mean living in two places, just respecting boundaries and establishing appropriate communication and physical interaction expectations.

3) If you do physically separate, percentages go against a reconcilliation...really against...somewhere I think I heard/read that 70% of people who move apart never get back together.

 

So. If she really wants to work on the marriage stay together and get counseling.

 

And. If she really wants 2 separate places to live, tell her that she's free to go (and then get a PI to be sure she isn't having an affair).

 

Because whoever walks out of the house (or refuses physical relations) if they haven't signed an air-tight separation agreement...is abandoning the marriage.

 

Bottom Line Question: Can you look at yourself in the mirror the rest of your life if you walk away?

 

 

Note, my EX made the same plea, he and I got a 2nd place and swapped houses for 6 months. He told me to sign an air-tight separation agreement or else he wouldn't try. I loved him, I trusted him, I signed because I wanted him to try. Result...he and the OW are married now, he pays no alimony and only $300/month in child support. DON'T sign away your rights.

[Darth Vader]

Nice point above, If she's saying "I want space", There's usually someone else in the picture, like another man! Don't sign anything!

[Psch1968]

Update. We chatted for 2/3 hours last night, and we agreed she should move out - she has found a room share with another girl who is going through a seperation (doesn't help me that) about 40 mins away, and will move out in 2 weeks time. She alos said she wants no money, nothing from our house save her personal possessions, because one of the reasons she is leaving is because she feels oppressed by everything around her 'being bought with my money'.

 

As you can imagine, that last one took me by surprise - not sure what else I could do other than earn less oney I guess :-(

 

I want to be strong for her, am trying hard, and as per B'fly's advice, have reached out and asked if there is anything I can do for her to help, told her I love her very much, told her I respected her decision, told her that I will wait for her, and that I want the opportunity to try and 'win her heart back'. She seemed guilty with this and was trying to tell me not too, but I refuse to give up - and I hope just like B'fly she wakes up one day soon and starts to see in me the man she married.

 

Whats hard is knowing she may go away and start something with another man - heartbreaking but something I must deal with, keep my emotions in check, and through actions, show her that while she may get short term joy, the man she married and really loves is still waiting.

 

I really feel we connected on many issues over the last 3/4 weeks - we talked about the control, the emotional blackmail, the oppression, etc and I listened and tried to explain what was happening and why. If nothing else, I think she sees I am a changed man and that just may one day bring her round???

 

But despite this, right now she is still hurting, still upset and angry, and needs to do this - which I understand.

 

Advice on next moves?

 

Its clear that until she leaves the house I need to act strong, need to continue to listen and engage in a positive way, and put aside my feelings of hurt and remorse. I also recognise I need to get out and start making new friends, renew social activities that have fallen by the way side. So am starting a yoga class next week, have enrolled in an evening culinary course in NYC, and am looking for a running partner locally.

 

The house - once she leaves, I intend to sell it, and I will move closer to NYC and incidentally closer to where she is going. I can't bear to sit and live in a house with so many good and bad memories, sleeping alone, knowing she is somewhere out there either also alone (or in this other girl's company) or dating again. I think even if she decided to work at the marriage and come back, we'd want to start afresh anyway - people agree?

 

Re seperation agreement, I am seeing a lawyer today but she says she wants nothing and appears ready to walk away with just her clothes and personal possessions so not sure I have too much to protect. Also she is the one leaving the marriage so I guess that plays in my favor?

 

Thanks to everyone again - this has been a source of great advice and great strength in exceedingly difficult times.

[Psch1968]

One other question - I had bought a bottle, rose petals, and scroll - onto which I was going to write a very romatic love poem, and leave it for her when I leave the house in the morning - she would get it when she wakes up.

 

Is this wise? Too early? Will it push her away? Or will it help move some of her feelings (not to not move out but just to start the heart beating again)?

 

Help......

[Woggle]

Do not under any circumstance do that. Just accept the fact that it is over. She has it in her head that you are the cause of all her problems and when a woman feels that way nothing will convince them otherwise. Just let it go.

[Psch1968]

Woggle - if thats right, and I jave lost her already, then what more do I have to lose??

[Woggle]

Woggle - if thats right, and I jave lost her already, then what more do I have to lose??

 

You have plenty more to lose. You have a good career, a house, friends and plenty of other things without her. I know it hurts right now but there is more to life than this woman. Don't blame yourself either. No matter what you did she would be doing this because it is about her and not you.

[butterfly37]

Stop pushing her away. Keep your emotions in check. If you must, write the poem, date it, seal it all away in a large envelope and keep it in the bottom of a drawer somewhere to give to her if she does return one day. DO NOT GIVE IT TO HER NOW. You will be working against yourself if you give it to her. You will only be showing her how needy you are. You will push her away further.

[Psch1968]

Okay I hear you both - thank you for bringing me back from the abyss - again!

[butterfly37]

Just stay cool. Remain aloof. Make her curious.

[Gunny376]

Woggle - if thats right, and I jave lost her already, then what more do I have to lose??

 

This kind of thinking comes about when you're not thinking straight. Goes along with, "I might as well get stoned/drunk I got "nothin' to lose." which is usually followed by some act of stupidity.

 

If you think things can't get any worse than they are right now? Think again. Things can go from bad to worse in a New York second!

 

When you get to thinking, "I've got nothin' to lose" you need to slow down and start looking around for the trip-wires of life. Mr. Reality is fixin' to throw your azz under the bus, and hand you your azz!

 

[Psch1968]

Here we go ......... she went out to lunch with a friend, and for the first time, I noticed she had removed her wedding band, engagement ring, and eternity ring. They certainly know how to kick a man when he's down.....

[butterfly37]

Don't react. Stay cool. Don't hand her the amunition to shoot yourself down. You're in a tailspin right now. You CAN pull yourself out of it!

 

How's that Gunny?

[Psch1968]

So one of the things she has said is that she wants nothing in our home except her clothes and personal valuables, she does not expect me to pay any money to her (she has her own job), and she said she would 'never take me for my money'. So question:

 

Do I ask my attorney to construct a Seperation Agreement to that effect, do I just file for divorce now, or do I wait it our for a little while and see how things play out - remember I want this woman to come back into my future despite her attitude / insistence right now?

[butterfly37]

Do nothing. If she wants a divorce, make her do ALL the work. Do not facilitate it in any way. Just sit back. Explore your rights and obligations, but don't do anything to make it easy on her.

[butterfly37]

If you don't mind me asking Psch, what happened in your first marriage? And are there any similarities between the first marriage and this marriage?

[Gunny376]

To be frank Psch? The only people that I've ever seen suscessfully get their ex back have been the ones that induced some serious reality into the WS (Wayward Spouse) that if this is what they want? Fine! But, understand? There's no coming back.

 

Jmargel put it best, when he told his I believe his finace, "Well,.............if that's what you want to do, but understand, once we do this? There IS no coming back! Ever. Nothing ugly, nothing mean, no brag ~ just the facts.

 

The one good bit of news about all of this is that once you've gone through it, you've build up a certain amount of immunity to it. Once you've had someone break your heart, mind and soul ~ you don't have a problem telling someone to go and take a hike!

 

Understand Psch, you're the one that holds the keys that will set you free from this misery. Not her.

 

And don't think for a minute that it can't get any worse! This BS can affect every facet of your life. From your job performance ~ to your interpersonal relations with others. You've really got to have it together mentally, emotionally, spiritually, financially ~ and it can take a toll on your health if your not careful.

 

There's all kinds of stress ~ even boredom can be stressful ~ (Trust me, riding in a Humvee with four other guys for hour, upon hours listening to the same music ~ over and over will send you over the edge!)

 

Divorce/sepearation stress is an all new ballgame!

 

Personally? I don't think a man can claim to be a man until he's had his azz handed by the woman he loves!

 

"Are you a combat vet?"

 

"Yep three tours in Iraq!"

 

"Ever had your heart good and properly broken by some woman you're madly in love with THAT that threw your azz under a bus, and handed it to you as she walked out the door?"

 

"Nope!"

 

"Then your not a man ~ yet!"

 

You survive this s***? You're a MAN! You come out the otherside of all this ~ you're a MAN!

 

Its hard! All day hard! Picking cotton by hand in Alabama in late September HARD! (FYI ~ its now 106 heat index here!)

[Gunny376]

Don't react. Stay cool. Don't hand her the amunition to shoot yourself down. You're in a tailspin right now. You CAN pull yourself out of it!

 

How's that Gunny?

 

LOL! The way I put it BF is "You can hang me, but I'll be damned if I'm going to give YOU my rope to hang me with!"

 

Yea Psch can pull himself out of it ~ but its got to be his conscious decsion to do so! He's the one that holds the keys to the chains of his misery ~ not the wife!

 

Just as you've made the conscious decision to be a "Stand-by-your-man" woman without being a doormat all at the same time! A paradox. And, its hard for a lot of folks to see the position you've taken. The bi-polar answer to your situation is to dump the SOB! You've taken a higher position ~ as I believe Psch has?

 

Instead of playing chess on just one board ~ your attempting to play it on three different boards ~ all at the same time. Where you can move from board to board! Both of you are much more multi-dimensional than your average Joe on the street. "Star Trek Chess" for those in the know!

 

Its NOT for the weak-minded, nor the febble-minded, nor the faint of heart! Those locked into bi-polar logic? Will call you stupid, ignorant, asine, etc.

 

But, they're only playing on one board, and generally not thinking six to seven moves ahead?

 

The two of you? You're not thinking just about the here and now? You're thinking about not just tomorrow, but next week, next month, next year.

 

The Problem? Is that your partners aren't on board with you on all of this? And may never be?

[Psch1968]

Just as you've made the conscious decision to be a "Stand-by-your-man" woman without being a doormat all at the same time! A paradox. And, its hard for a lot of folks to see the position you've taken. The bi-polar answer to your situation is to dump the SOB! You've taken a higher position ~ as I believe Psch has?

 

 

Yes Gunny, I have, but its middle of the night, and I'm angry.

 

I'm angry that despite her saying she fought for 7 years for the marriage and that my fighting now is too late - reality is you marry and work through all the good and all the bad, you never give up - I am angry she is not fighting at all, she is just plain and simple giving up / checking out.

 

I'm angry that she has clearly been feeling this way for some time (I have come to uncover she was talking about this to a joint friend 8 weeks before it happened, and she herself said 'I have been unhappy for 18 months' - during which I may add she sent me some love notes, we had a beautiful 5th WA in Vegas, etc - yet certainly was not telling me anything - I am angry that she doesn't see this as devious or calculating.

 

I am angry that she is now behaving as if the worlds problems are over - suddenly bouncy again, talking to me as if I am a best friend, , generally showing relief its all over - I am angry that she is not mourning the loss of our marriage.

 

I'm angry that I am the one doing all the soul searching, I am the one admitting all my mistakes, I am the one taking counselling, and I am the one who is expected to stay behind and mop up after this woman - I am angry I am being manipulated by a woman who was supposed to love me for the rest of my life.

 

I'm angry that she is not just giving me up, she is also giving up on our dogs whom she loves, yet she seems happy now even though she will not see them and cuddle them and walk them every day. I am angry (and sad) because if I were them, I'd be feeling just like I am.

 

And I'm angry that despite all this, I still want her, I am going where most would not, I am trying to seek ways in which to show her I love her, I am still here fighting for 'us' - I am angry I am in all probability wasting my time and my love on a woman who is apparently adept at just throwing it all away.

 

I am glad I am in bed, else this would come out!!

 

If you don't mind me asking Psch, what happened in your first marriage? And are there any similarities between the first marriage and this marriage?

 

Yes there are some similarities, though very different circumstances. In my first marriage (10 years), we married early (21) and drifted apart due to my career taking off, and due to her temperament which was to allow me to control everything - so we just became bored and changed as time went by. What it did in retrospect is feed my need to control, which is clearly one of the big issues in my current marriage (or whats left of it).

 

Thing is, I left my first wife after 10 years to be with my 2nd wife. She was the bi-polar of my 1st wife - independent, career minded, strong, etc - and those were the qualities I admired. I still admire them, and no doubt my 'control' has changed her, but as I laid out above, when we took our vows we agreed to live together and support, nourish etc. I am the one taking the blame, she on the other hand seems oblivious to her part in this, oblivious to the ease at which she is throwing it all away without seeming to care a jot about the commitment she made.

 

So undoubtedly I have to let go my controlling side - I grew up in a broken poor home, was packaged off to a brutal boarding school at age 11, and these have helped feed my insecurities and need to control - I just cant allow it to keep destroying the very things I love. The counselling is starting to help, as is reading some of the books some folk here have posted me.

 

But my friends tell me I am generous, funny, warm, affectionate, attractive, and principalled, and I should stop beating myself up, learn, get my 'control' desire addressed, and then women will be throwing themselves at me........... but thats still not what I want. Despite everything above, the anger, the hurt, the hopelessness, and the pain, I would still do anything for this woman.

 

She just keeps saying - its too late, and nothing I can now do will ever help her regain the feelings she has lost. She just wants to be single again. She wants to check out and sever all ties.

 

I'm sure most here think I am wasting my time, prolonging the agony, beating myself up, refusing to accept what I have to accept, and being blinded to all the opportunities that perhaps lay on the other side of all this. But thats not the guy I am - I am a guy with morals, principles, I love deeply, and I am strong enough to give her time and be her friend despite all the hurt.

 

But I am also not weak enough to not move on. I guess only I will or can determine when I reach that point.

[sumdude]

I understand exactly how you feel psch...been there...still slightly there. Most important thing you can do is learn to love from a distance. She may never come back to you, in fact it's very unlikely from what she's saying to you. So you must at least act as if you're moving on with your life even if you don't feel like it. Cut all unnecessary contact with her and work on healing yourself.

 

The old saw "All's fair in love and war." comes to mind. Meaning that it's not fair, life's not always fair and we have to deal with the reality we face. The less you talk to her, think about her and move on the better. In fact it's the only path to a possible though very far fetched reconciliation. Because man, she has lost IT for you for whatever reason. Which you will NEVER understand no matter how hard you try.

 

There is no way to talk someone into feeling IT again.

[Darth Vader]

So one of the things she has said is that she wants nothing in our home except her clothes and personal valuables, she does not expect me to pay any money to her (she has her own job), and she said she would 'never take me for my money'. So question:

 

Do I ask my attorney to construct a Seperation Agreement to that effect, do I just file for divorce now, or do I wait it our for a little while and see how things play out - remember I want this woman to come back into my future despite her attitude / insistence right now?

 

 

Is there away you can get this in writting?! And have her sign it?!