Hurt & nowhere to turn

[Psch1968]

thanks to h2ofrek for the advice and link - I read that book on the plane across to Europe, and it cemented the process of realisation that for 2 years at least, I have been abusing my wife and my marriage, not physically, but emotionally. No wonder she asked for some time apart, and wants to clear her head and think about whether she can carry on with me. Now I know the issue, and can see the impact its had on our lives, I'm ready to put a plan into action so all the good things I do, good things about our marriage, come to the forefront and we tackle the problems - but I fear its too little, too late - and if truth be told, I would not blame her.

 

I cant do anything. Every bit of advice I have received now I have left for 2 weeks, has been to stay silent and let her make the moves - and the book re-enforces this by suggesting an attempt to contact her will be seen as another sign of trying to exert control. She is the one in control here, and I must sit and wait.

 

Its going to be a long, sleepless, painful 2 weeks, and my hopes are shot at this point. I think she has made her decision and this 2 weeks is just to allow her to cement that decision by being free of me - what a tragedy. What a mess......

[Gunny376]

This is so true Guns- you really know women!

 

Thanks for the compliment Mz. P, but women are a pardox, becuase their individuals and there's no two exactally alike. There aren't any absolutes that can apply ~ only "flying by the seat of your pants" generalities. I "know" women because of experience and because I have studied what works and what doesn't work, and still am. Learning and growning ~ all the time. Its a life-long mission of mine ~ and I know that it will never be completed.

 

It really can be as simple as this, "Girls just want to have fun!" That and they don't won't to be stressed out by their own personal stressors. And, that's different for every man and woman.

 

Generally speaking they want a "confident" man who's going to be a part of the answers and not part of the question, part of the solution and not part of the problem. Who's going to be there when they need them ~ and out of the way when they don't. A man who recognizes that while they may be women, they're also human beings, and that just because they're women ~ doesn't mean they're stupid, ignorant, or incapable. A man who admires their uniqueness not only as women, but as individuals.

 

A man who understands that they love them ~ not because they need them, but need and want them because they love them.

 

You want to control your woman? You want a woman that's not going to walk out on you? Then get to know her, really get to know her, her wants, her needs, her fears, her desires, her dreams. Be there for her in ways others have never and can never be there for her. Be her best and most dearest friend. Take the time to get to know her as a human being, as an individual.

 

My most successful relationship was with my last GF. She's a school teacher, with a Master's in education. She can support herself. She's got outstanding credit, and was raised around enough men that she knows about most things that men know. In short ~ she doesn't need a man. Not for the day to day of living life.

 

When she and I got together, things progressed to the level where she thought it was time to progress to the next level ~ aka ~ sex. I told her we needed to work on our "friendship" first.

 

The reason so many marriages fail is because people try to go from being acquaintences to lovers in less than sixty seconds.

 

For a relationship to work? You become acquaintences first, then friends, then good friends, the really good friends, then best friends, the each others best friend, ~ and then lovers. You've got to lay a good solid foundation on good solid ground ~ FIRST! Bringing sex into a relationship too early on ~ is just the wrong way to go!

 

A damn good example of this is June and Johnny Cash's marriage. The reason their marriage lasted so long was because they were each other's best friend! To quote June from the movie, "I want my old friend Johnny back ~ I don't like this "Cash" fella!

[Psch1968]

So its day 9 - and I went out with close friends of ours last night & poured my heart out. Interestingly, they revealed they have had similar issues (he's an alpha male too) but something she said really hit home. She felt being away was likely not going to help, and that staying silent might be read as an admission that I could survive without her - she encouraged me to drop her an email and let her know how I was feeling. So this morning, I decided to do that, and wrote a reasonably brief email to her letting her know how I was feeling, opening up again, and asking her if I could come home to start to talk through the issues. Now I'm worried if she comes back and says no, it'll send me into another pit of despair. I find myself reading a million things into every move she makes or doesn't make, find myself trawling websites looking for encouragement and hope yet usually find reality - which doesn't help given the bare statistics.

 

Worse she may decide that she needs to make it clear its over - then what?

 

I can't see how my life can get worse right now. I just so want to make her happy, and by doing so make me happy as well.

[sumdude]

Worse she may decide that she needs to make it clear its over - then what?

 

I can't see how my life can get worse right now. I just so want to make her happy, and by doing so make me happy as well.

 

Oh things could be worse ... remember that. Are you in one piece? Healthy? Employed? Have food? Shelter?

 

Think of this, since you don't think it can get worse than it's time to think of how you make it better. Every day you live in that moment, this is a really really hard time in your life. So you have to almost rebuild yourself from this moment forward. The life you knew has been blown up, now you pick up the pieces one by one and decide which ones to keep and which to discard. Take an active role in your present and possible future.

 

It's a hard road but get moving. The limbo you're in is gooing to make you a bit nuts for a while. Find some way to distract yourself as best as you can. I feel for ya, been there and still gettin through it all.

[tinke]

gunny..i like what you wrote..very true for me.

 

i had always believed my ex was intimidated by my independance instead of embracing it.

[Psch1968]

Sumdude - yes I know, but scant comfort right now, the way I feel I'd trade some of those things to just hear her voice.

 

Its been nearly 6 hours since I sent the email, she has a Blackberry so must know she has received it, nothing but radio silence.

 

I guess that means its over ..............

[Psch1968]

So I got an email response. It was better than I had hoped. She infers that she believes I finally understand the emotional issues that have led us here. She has acknowledged confiding almost non stop for 2 days to 2 close g/f's while I have been away, and has confessed she is emotionally spent as a result. But she has countered my proposal to come home immediately, by proposing I return home on 19th instead of 26th as had been planned, so she gets this week to work through her feelings. She also made a good point (that others have made on here) - no matter how much I invest and throw into the reconciliation, if she doesn't feel able to reciprocate with as much enthusiasm, the relationship is doomed to failure. She ended on this latter point - perhaps not a good sign, but I am taking the positives from this and have agreed to her proposal via mail return, also stressing she should not think she has to make a decision by the time I return home.

 

Any thoughts, am I still 'out' here? Should I do anything else for this relationship between now and next Sunday, or just sit tight? Advice as always welcome

[sumdude]

Find some books on relationships to A)Learn from , B) Keep your mind occupied.

 

Relationship Rescue - Dr. Phil (yeah I know but it's a good book)

 

Divoce Busting - ebook Michelle Weiner Daves

 

This is an excerpt from her book

 

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or

implore!

2. No frequent phone calls

3. Do not point out good points in marriage

4. Do not follow him/her around the house

5. Do not encourage talk about the future

6. Do not ask for help from family members

7. Do not ask for reassurances

8. Do not buy gifts

9. Do not schedule dates together

10. Do not spy on spouse

11. Do not say "I Love You"

12. Act as if you are moving on with your life

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get

busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends,

etc.

15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start

the conversation) be scarce or short on words

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her

whereabouts, ASK NOTHING

17. You need to make your partner think that you have

had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you

are going to move on with your life, with or without

your spouse

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull

back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more

important, realize what he will be missing

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show

your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him

someone he would want to be around.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on

hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which

may be a while)

21. Never lose your cool

22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic

23. Do not argue about how he feels (it only makes

their feelings stronger)

24. Be patient

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really

saying to you

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you

want to speak out

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh &

focus on all the other parts of your life that are not

in turmoil)

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly

29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest

CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any

words you can say or write

30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you

are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with

your spouse

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than

50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in

absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad

you feel

34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes

[Gunny376]

From your latest post ~ she's not conviced on giving up on you and her. You've got to give her the chance of "missing you" ~ and you need to take some time out to learn how to give her what's missing from your marriage that she's needing.

 

I see her as wanting to give you and her a chance, but she's doubting that your azz can deliver.

 

To be honest? At this point in the game? You azz is out of gas! And that's not being disresptful. For all I KNOW you've got an MBA from Havard? Or a PhD from Princeton? But, I can tell you for sure and certain that they don't teach Marriage101 at either! I know that for sure and certain.

 

I do know somthing about heartache, heartbreak, divorce, child support, bills, bankruptcy, the IRS, and pissed off wives! OJT is a mother-trucker! I'm here to tell ya'! And I can sit around the fire, spittin' whiskey in the fire and tell ya' all you want to know about Mr. Reality!

 

The biggest thing you need right now?

 

TIME!

 

Time to learn, adapt, and overcome!

 

You've got some reading to do, some learning to do, ~ you need some intel! You need time!

 

Go easy!

 

Go Slow!

 

Get your azz to reading!

 

Get your azz to learning!

 

Get you azz to couseling!

 

Learn damnit! Learn!

[Psch1968]

Gunny - you are totally right. I have climbed a mountain in the last 9 days in terms learning and listening in order to get to the heart of my emotional abuse of her, and now feel truly enlivened to set a different course for myself and my marriage. But I recognise this will take a lot of work - every monring I wake up, its got to be with this new perspective, else my wife (if she gives me a final chance) will well & truly destroy me next time.

 

I ordered her flowers today - and then realised I had made a mistake, so yanked the order before it could be delivered. Such is my dilema though - you so want to start enacting your new found approach & win her over before she cuts the string totally. I'm bouncing from pillar to post, thinking of everything I could do to help her mind say 'yes' for I believe our life together would be so enriched in a funny way after what we are going through, but the clock is ticking......

[Psch1968]

So an update .........

 

I have gone through every emotion this week. Anger, denial, guilt, and acceptance of my failure in the relationship. Its really enlightened me. My friends (girls) advised me to call her last night but leave a very gerenal, non inquisitive message - so I did, and guess what - no response whatsoever!! But am sticking to the 32 rules, so no more calls till I get home.

 

And going home is fast approaching (Sunday) - what to say, what to do, what will she say to me, how will she be???? I am sure she is very upset, angry, frustrated, and getting very feminine advice from her friends, so very pessimistic about our chances - but who knows. Trying to prepare for every possible angle - if she asks for a seperation/divorce then play the game most people have suggested on here - tell her she's right, and let her go - she may just wake up and realise what she is letting go in due course. Or she'll still be undecided - then what? Stuck between playing hard and playing the soft game? And if she wants to try again, then what?

 

All advice welcome - I feel I need to prepare for the worst...

[Psch1968]

OMG - I am dying here, I can't take this. Went out with a couple of the guys after work, but despite their best efforts I just could not shake off the misery - I feel like the wind has been sucked out of my lungs and I can't breathe anymore. I have had about 8 hours sleep in the past week, am surviving on a sandwich a day, and can't get out of my head that when I get back on Sunday, she is just going to look at me and deliver the final blow!!! Pathetic I know, but she is the love of my life .... and the thought of her out of my life is killing me.

 

I read all the advice - follow the rules, back off, don't show her your desperate etc - but the reality is I am, and despite feeling like a doormat, would do just about anything to show her that we can be happy if she'll just give this time.

[butterfly37]

I don't mean to sound harsh here, but does anyone on this site ever think of asking God what they are to do in their situation? There are no rule books for life. Everyone's situation is different and requires a different type of action to make it work, right? I find that everytime I ask someone's opinion on my situation, everyone is vey quick to make a judgement call without finding out as much information as possible. Knee-jerk reactions almost always come back to bite you in the behind. Is anyone here walking a mile in their troubled mates shoes? Is there any empathy for what the other person is going through as well? I'm new to this site and gave a brief description of my situation. It would take pages to describe it all. And most of the replies that I got were to get rid of the dirty bum. There seems to be a lot of hurt people here giving advice that might be a bit tainted? I know I came to the site for advice and so I'm getting it. But there is so much more to these situations than any of us can realize. And in a world where family is continually deteriorating at record pace, where relationships are so disposable, I just don't see how trading in one set of problems for another set of problems is to anyone's advantage. I'm probably asking for trouble here, but where is God in all of this?

[sumdude]

OMG - I am dying here, I can't take this. Went out with a couple of the guys after work, but despite their best efforts I just could not shake off the misery - I feel like the wind has been sucked out of my lungs and I can't breathe anymore. I have had about 8 hours sleep in the past week, am surviving on a sandwich a day, and can't get out of my head that when I get back on Sunday, she is just going to look at me and deliver the final blow!!! Pathetic I know, but she is the love of my life .... and the thought of her out of my life is killing me.

 

I read all the advice - follow the rules, back off, don't show her your desperate etc - but the reality is I am, and despite feeling like a doormat, would do just about anything to show her that we can be happy if she'll just give this time.

 

I feel for you, I know how it is, I've been there man, just 7 months ago ... impossible to sleep, concentrate on anything, your stomach feels like it's inside out, you get anxiety attacks ... vertigo... in fact the whole thing is one big anxiety attack. When you do see her you'll be so out of whack she'll naturally just pull away a bit.... It's really hard, you're in serious love withdrawal... it's a lot like drug withdrawal with similar symptoms. Keep going, get a lot of exercise, stay busy ... MAKE yourself stay busy ... don't care how as long as it's not detrimental to your health. Pray if you feel the need.

 

Don't know if you've seen the movie Finding Nemo but the character Dory was somehow stuck in my head "Just keep swimming ... Just keep swimming."

 

Hang in there, be AS PREPARED FOR ANYTHING AS YOU CAN BE.

 

 

Whatever happens YOU WILL SURVIVE .... YOU WILL BE JUST FINE ..... IT WILL GET BETTER but you have to concentrate on it ...take control of yourself and your life. Put out an all out effort not to fall down and stay down. It's all up to you.... you can and will do it. It may end up being one of the toughest things you ever had to do but you're strong enough. Hate to tell ya but people go through worse things every day, lose entire families to god knows what, have no food, shelter, you're gonna be ok.

 

 

If things don't work out, six months down the road you'll start to feel the sunshine again. In a lifetime six months ain't that long.

 

If it does work out the two of you have a lot of work to do and it still won't be easy... so you need to work on yourself either way.

 

I hope the best for you.

[sumdude]

I'm probably asking for trouble here, but where is God in all of this?

 

I wish I knew .... I'm not a very religious man but the separation brought me to my knees asking, talking and praying again .... My stbx apparently found a renewed faith during this as well.

 

Apparently we got two different answers since she still wants the divorce.....

 

At this point I'm not going to fight it... only time will tell

[Psch1968]

Thanks - I just want to move this on, find out what she is thinking, and if its bad news, get through the inevitable pain as fast as possible so I can climb out the other side and regain my life. Meanwhile I gotta keep going at work ..... and she is about to start at the same company as me .... that ain't helping

[butterfly37]

It does say in the Bible to give a person a divorce if they are asking for one. And I personally think that it is wise to not fight it. It only causes tension and your significant other to think that you are not taking their feelings into consideration. That's what my experience has been. When I'm not trying to claw my way back into his life, that's when he remembers that I'm his friend. That's when the lines of communication reopen. When he feels that I am understanding what he is going through, I'm the one that he opens up to. He knows that I'm always here for him. I know so much more about the whole situation than his girlfriend knows. Because he feels he can't be honest to her about his feelings. I know how confused he is. I know how she makes him feel; how needy she is. I know how trapped he feels. I know how guilty he feels. I know how much he wishes he could turn back the clock and change the past. I'm still his closest confidant. I'm still his true friend. And although he's not there for me right now the way I need him to be, if there were a time when I really needed someone, I know that he'd be there for me too. I have true faith. One that says love no matter what. Love the unlovable.

“Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?”

-Abraham Lincoln(1809-65), 16th U.S. President

Life is about relationship. Maybe we won't end up being married to the person we are with now. Does that mean that we have to be enemies? That's just being as selfish as the person asking for the divorce. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[butterfly37]

Thanks - I just want to move this on, find out what she is thinking, and if its bad news, get through the inevitable pain as fast as possible so I can climb out the other side and regain my life. Meanwhile I gotta keep going at work ..... and she is about to start at the same company as me .... that ain't helping

 

You haven't lost your life. You are still living it. Just try living it for today only. Try not to worry about tomorrow. Look at it as a lesson in developing patience. Worry only causes stress and anxiety. And what person wants to spend a lifetime with a worried, anxious person? Speaking as a woman, I'd admire a man who didn't portray those negative qualities. I'd admire a man who was calm, centered, kind and sympathetic. Woman are looking for safety in the arms of a man who she can share her heart with without being judged.

[Psch1968]

Butterfly37 - thanks, your words have actually helped a lot. May I ask you a question - if you read my thread you'll see that I was due to go home Sunday 26th but after asking to come home early she agreed to me coming home this Sunday. I do not however want to pressure her - I want to respect her need for space and be sympathetic to the process she is going through - should I drop her a short but polite note and offer more time, or stay silent till I see her Sunday?

[butterfly37]

I think it would be a good idea to drop her a short note and tell her what you told me. That you don't want her to feel pressured into agreeing to letting you return home early and that you respect her need for space. Tell her that you understand that she is going through a difficult time right now and that you don't want to make it any more difficult than it already is for her. Tell her that you only want to do whatever it is that she needs from you right now. Think about what it will take to touch her heart right now. Let her know that her needs are more important than anything that you feel you might be needing right now. That's what agape love is. Giving of yourself unselfishly. Putting the other person first, no matter what. Give and it will be returned to you times 10!

[Gunny376]

It does say in the Bible to give a person a divorce if they are asking for one. And I personally think that it is wise to not fight it. It only causes tension and your significant other to think that you are not taking their feelings into consideration. That's what my experience has been. When I'm not trying to claw my way back into his life, that's when he remembers that I'm his friend. That's when the lines of communication reopen. When he feels that I am understanding what he is going through, I'm the one that he opens up to. He knows that I'm always here for him. I know so much more about the whole situation than his girlfriend knows. Because he feels he can't be honest to her about his feelings. I know how confused he is. I know how she makes him feel; how needy she is. I know how trapped he feels. I know how guilty he feels. I know how much he wishes he could turn back the clock and change the past. I'm still his closest confidant. I'm still his true friend. And although he's not there for me right now the way I need him to be, if there were a time when I really needed someone, I know that he'd be there for me too. I have true faith. One that says love no matter what. Love the unlovable.

“Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?”

-Abraham Lincoln(1809-65), 16th U.S. President

Life is about relationship. Maybe we won't end up being married to the person we are with now. Does that mean that we have to be enemies? That's just being as selfish as the person asking for the divorce. Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

Pull back and re-group there Lady! There are few that have the conviciton of spirit and truth that you have! There are only so many like you that are willing to stand by their man the way you are willing to. And its not that he's cheated upon, and is emotionally attached to another woman ~ that's HARD CORPS ~ all day!

 

To me? Its evident that you are at the very least are Spiritual Warrior/Amazon/Spartian Woman! You and many other women on this board have much in comparisson!

 

Its just that the path you've chossen with the X is a long, narrow and difficult one not for the faint of heart nor the weak minded!

 

Me, myself and I? I personally applaude you! And give you an old fashion Marine Corps,

 

Ooooooooraaahhhhh! and Spartain OOOOOhhhhhhh!

[Psch1968]

So my wife responded. She kept it cool, told me she was fine with me [sIZE=2]coming home on Sunday evening, based on fact I had given her the time that we agreed and she did not want me to feel as though I had to continue to stay away. She reminded me that the house we live in is my home too. Also informed me she was going to spend the w/e at one of our joint friends (they are a couple) home, with our dogs. Signed off 'Take care' but no love, kisses, etc.[/sIZE]

 

+ve's and -ve's.

 

Positive she responded and said she was fine with me returning home, asked if I was ok, etc. Negative that she is going away to a friends for the w/e (whose advice to her I can't guess - and didn't she say she wanted space - perhaps space from me, not friends) and there was no written sign of emotion / affection.

 

Still feels like preparing for the worst, but hoping for the best, is all I can do right now.

[Psch1968]

I keep looking at my phone, wondering whether to text our friend (with whom she is going to spend the w/e) to ask 'as a friend' for help in convincing her not to throw the towel in yet. I suspect its a good idea in principal, a terrible idea in practice - but as I said earlier, I'll do anything to just secure a chance to explore our feelings together, I really think it would help her make some sense of this. Trying to be strong......

[Psch1968]

Out with friends on my last night before returning home - they reminded me of some key facts:

1. While I have made many mistakes, it takes two to tango in every marriage and only one to walk off the dancefloor

2. Her current feelings are all negative because she is subconsciously blocking away the positive images of our marriage because the feelings of hurt and resentment have spilled over

3. At 39, with no kids, and a great career, the world is still my oyster

4. While my wife will not benefit from the changes I am going to make (because she is leaving) my next relationship will be better for this pain I am currently going through

5. Ultimately, whether she finds happiness elsewhere or not, there is a high likelihood that she will look back and wish that if nothing else, she had talked and understood our issues and our challenges together rather than heading for the exit door emotionally and physically so quickly because of the way she is feeling today

 

While none of these remove the pain of seeing her move out, which I am fully now expecting to happen in the next 2-3 weeks, they are images that I need to ensure I keep at the forefront of my mind, so that I can obtain closure earlier.

 

They also reminded me that rather than hanging around and waiting for her to 'one day' come to her senses, I had to just move on with my life and accept that the very high likelihood is that once she leaves, she will not comeback. I think this is a key lesson for many on here - when the heart is broken, the dumpee often seeks any +ve they can grab (be it religious, spiritual, or fanciful) in the hope their ex may decide that he or she will suddenly change their mind. Yes it does happen - but the overwhelming evidence is that it does not (just read the stuff here right). So why its key to go through the emotional chain of upset, fear, anger, and denial, the sooner the mind is cleanmsed and refreshed and moves onto hope, the sooner both parties in the broken marriage can move on.

 

While I am sick today and will be worse later when I eventually arrive home and 'hear the music', I will wake up Monday morning with my health, my career, my family, my friends, and a new world of hope. Perhaps the saddest part of all this, is that for my marriage to have survived, my wife and I should have been discussing this annually to kepe the equilibrium sound, instead of now when one party can't see past the exit sign, and the other can't even see that.

 

As always, have found this board and the people, their advice very therapeutic - so a big thanks. I will post an update Monday because the advice is very much appreciated - keep it coming please.

[butterfly37]

I'll be praying for you psch