Hurt & nowhere to turn

[Psch1968]

Okay so I have dewlt this morning on where I am at. Having read 'Love Must Be Tough' and realised (through some 9 mnth old emails) that my WAW is having an emotional affair with an old lover she met before we even met and married, I believe I need to sit her down, and gently say...

'I love you very much, and I want to make this marriage and our future better - but I dont know whats going in in your mind, you are making it clear you want out and have no intention to work at this with me, you are leaving next Saturday, and while sad, I accept your decison - if you ever come back I will know you really loved me, if you dont then I will know I never had you to begin with. I will stay in the house with the dogs and concentrate on rebuilding my life, my friendships etc - but in 12 weeks if your feelings have not changed, I think we will have to legally dissolve our marriage'

 

What does this acheive. 1) It tells her I will not sit around and wait forever while she carries on with the email affair with ex-lover back in UK. 2) It gives her tough love. 3) It provides me with a goal and a deadline enabling me to start to plan for a future without her. And 4) It tells her that she has a period of time to either come back and work with me, or lose it forever.

 

Thoughts pls - I do appreciate the advice from you all, and this is a critical point that I so want to get right?

[Gunny376]

'I love you very much, and I want to make this marriage and our future better - but I dont know whats going in in your mind, you are making it clear you want out and have no intention to work at this with me, you are leaving next Saturday, and while sad, I accept your decison - if you ever come back I will know you really loved me, if you dont then I will know I never had you to begin with. I will stay in the house with the dogs and concentrate on rebuilding my life, my friendships etc - but in 12 weeks if your feelings have not changed, I think we will have to legally dissolve our marriage'

 

What does this acheive. 1) It tells her I will not sit around and wait forever while she carries on with the email affair with ex-lover back in UK. 2) It gives her tough love. 3) It provides me with a goal and a deadline enabling me to start to plan for a future without her. And 4) It tells her that she has a period of time to either come back and work with me, or lose it forever.

 

Sounds good to me!

[butterfly37]

Psch,

I'm re-reading Love Must Be Tough by Dr. James Dobson. I'm urging you to read it until you know it completely. I read it a couple of years ago, but reading it now that the divorce is a done deal is a real eye-opener. You know what they say about hindsight...... I've gone through your whole thread like I said I would. You have a few people here who have walked through the dark valleys back into the light. We have the experience. We have the hindsight. There are so many parallels in my situation and yours as I am sure as with many others here. And it is illustrated very well in the book I mentioned as well. This is so much wisdom here. Speaking for myself, my pain would be turned to gladness if I could be someone that could help you through this.

[marlena]

YesI agree. Not only set those boundaries but be adamant about achieving them ...They will eventually set you free ... and freedom from an extremely stressful situation is a renaissance in itself ...

[Gunny376]

I was going to add ~ but got "timed-out"

 

Then leave her the Hell alone for that time! Give her the "gift" of missing you, of doubting herself, of questioning her choices, and yea maybe getting a little worried and scared.

 

Meanwhile, three months is plenty of time for the OM to show his azz to be an "AZZ!"

 

If it works out otherwise? Well, its for sure and certain fact! You can't lose something you never had to begin with!

[butterfly37]

As difficult as it is to do Psch, you are right on track! We're here supporting you.

[butterfly37]

I mean this in a totally respectful way:

 

GUNNY, I LOVE YOU!!!!!

[Psch1968]

Thankyou all.

 

b37 - I have taken the time to read a lot of your posts / thread, and something comes through very strong - you are truly an amazing woman, an inspiration in fact to many, and your advice is given in a way that makes me and I am sure others listen. I so wish I could return the aid in some way, but you have my support for your situation as well.

 

Gunny - I would say I love you 2, but man to man and all that!!! Seriously thankyou, your advice is given in a very different way, but sometimes thats what we all need - a kick right up the backside!

 

And to anyone else that posted here - thanks.

 

I have no idea where this journey is taking me in terms of R with my W, but I do recognise that the pain, hurt, fear, and frustration I feel now will pass with time, that it will pass easier with me respecting myself, and that I can do no more for 'us'. Letting her go will either bring us back together, or we will just totally lose contact - hard to deal with, but deal with it I must. If she comes back, we have a lot of work to do, and if she doesn't I must ensure I learn these lessons, keep learning every day, and hope that next time round, I find a woman able to share and tolerate the ups & downs of life and marriage.

 

I will post an update again early next week, and let you all know where I am at.

 

Thanks again

[butterfly37]

And remember, you are a better man today than you were yesterday. You're gonna be just fine. Blessings.

[Gunny376]

butterfly37I mean this in a totally respectful way:

 

GUNNY, I LOVE YOU!!!!!

 

 

I tend to have that effect on most dogs, little children and women!

 

One thing about it Psch, no matter how you slice it, dice it, chop it, or serve it up ~ you're going to end up a better man and in a better place for the experience. Its just getting to the otherside of this mess ~ one way or the other.

 

You're a man with a plan!

 

You're getting busy getting busy in and with your life.

 

You've set some goals and bounderies, you're not sitting around the house with the dogs having one hugh pity party!

 

You're out getting some strenous excercise, (endorphne city!)

 

You're out socalizing expanding your social network, (support group)

 

You've gotten some good solid advice from all points on the compass. All in all? All things considered? I would say you're doing about all a person can do for the time being. You're about to put the ball in her court. You're taking back control of your life, and your emotions.

 

OUTSTANDING~ SIMPLY OUTSTANDING!

 

I think you're going to be one of the ones that comes back on here in six months to a year from now and tell about how great you life is! You just got to take it one day at a time, and keep working to get to where you want and need to be! Keep up the good work!

[butterfly37]

Wow! You've come a long way in such a short amount of time Psch. I'm impressed. I wish I had know about LS five years ago......

[Psch1968]

Gunny - not quite, my thread explains how the OM in this case is an ex lover in the UK, so the 'affair' is an emotional one being conducted through email. I am sure she intends to hook back up with him but it wont be till next year because she has to sort out her job first, relocate back from US, etc and suspect can't happen overnight.

 

All in all - bad news because she has always been 'close' with this guy, I really should have seen it coming, but another area in which I screwed up.

 

I dont this this OM will screw it up - I think my only hope is something else happens to make her change her mind?

 

Not sure what that is, just can't see it happening,,,

[Psch1968]

So we went out tonite, had dinner at a new restaurant locally, and from the off, I played the 'as if' game - I was playful, happy, talkative, inquisitive (about everything other than R), really bubbly, and attentive. I think at last, she started to soften just subtely - she raised R for first time, we had a very agreeable conversation about problems in our marriage, about our friends opinions and concerns for us, and she acknowledged the change in me. She even said 'hun' twice during the evening - now that sounds like nothing but after 4 weeks of total cold turkey, thats progress in my book.

 

Perhaps I am kidding myself - fundamentals remain unchanged, she WILL move out of that I am sure, but it felt like we moved from the stock room to base camp tonight - still a hell of a long way from the summit, but if nothing else, our friendship became closer, warmer tonite, and for that, for now, I am grateful.

 

Doesn't change my mind re the conversation we need to have very soon re possible OM, and I recognise that she may turn cold again tomorrow, but right now, a small step forward I hope.

[Gunny376]

Stay the course! As Lady Jane would stay would want to present yourself as a confident, self assured viable alternative, with lots of positive and appealing attributes.

 

I don't care that this guy is an old flame ~ the fact of the matter is that he is one. There's some reason that they broke up, and there's a reason that they're not together.

 

And, I don't care what anyone says, but internet romances are BS! They're at least 60% BS fantasy. Its easy to fantasie about someone who don't have to wake up with each morning, clean up after, pick up after them, deal with them every single moment, etc.

 

My bet would be that you and her hit a rough patch ~ before you begin investigating in what makes relatoionships work and what doesn't work. The human mind being what it is ~ its tends to only remember the best of the past and forget the worst. I know! I've been through it many times.

 

So you and her hit a rough patch of ground, things didn't measure up to her expectations and she had forgotten why he and the old flame split to begin with, she started remembering nothing but the good, and begin fantasing about him and those so-called "good times."

 

So yea, if you've got it in you and are willing to ride this to the end ~ and your end goal objective is to ride it out to the bitter end, that's a personal decision that you and only you can make.

 

Only you and you alone can make the decision as to how much of a personal investment of time, effort, energy, (pyschological, mental, emotional, physical) your willing to make. All the while getting zero return on your investment.

 

Book recommendation:

 

"How To Win Back The One You Love" ~ Surefire Strategies From A Best-Selling Author And a Psychiatrist

 

Eric Weber & Steven S, Simring, M.D. 1983 ~

McMillan Publishing Co., Inc 866 Third Avenue, NYNY 10022

 

ISBN 0-02-624700-3 (The number by which to order books ~ ISBN means International Standard Book Number)

 

Contents:

 

Make Conversation ~ Not Love

 

Don't Walk On Eggshells

 

Starting a Dialogue

 

Listening

 

The Power of Words

 

Don't Scramble for Moral Superiority

 

Changing

 

Excitement

 

When Words Aren't Enough

 

Spending

 

Sharing the Burdge

 

Your One Great Strength

 

How to Deal with Your Mate's Affair

 

Insist on One Year!

 

Specificity

 

Steadfastness

 

Don't be a Pitable Case

 

Professional Help

 

Lawyers

 

Re-coupling

 

I believe Eric's got a website ~ but you'll have to Google it as LS won't let me link you! (BTW he's the "original" dating guru.)

 

If you have a hard time finding you can hire yourself a "Book Finder" but only list with one, if you list with more than one ~ it will drive up the price of the book for a rare book. But, I believe you might still be able to find this one at Eric's site!

[Psch1968]

Thanks Gunny - will get and read the book for sure, I have quite a collection building up!!

 

I find myself in a real hole here. I love this woman so much, damn the journey I have been on these last 4 weeks has been a gift, really, and one might say its been a gift from her - had she not preciptated this, I would never have done it. I am willing to sit by, do the best I can, do the 180s, and hope, even though we will live an hour apart and we don't have children so it could be complete NC/dark (we work at same company/building and do have dogs to share), that she will somehow want to keep communicating and through that, realise there is another course.

 

I am wary this morning, even though you guys all supprted it, about adopting too hard a line - the 12 week ultimatum sounds like a bad idea in retrospect (why dont I just sit tight for 12 weeks and then if I want, pull the lever)? Confronting her about whether she really is having the email emotional affair with the ex - I want to have that conversation but suspect she would clam up / deny anyway, and what purpose will it serve, really?

 

I guess I am saying that in 12 weeks, I can determine, based on where she is at then and what happens during that time, whether she might re-consider. If she doesn't then I can communicate that in both our interests, we should move on - and see if that induces any change.

 

Thoughts again?

[Gunny376]

Wheather to confront her about the OM and the EA or to place her on a 12 week "Double-secret probation" (Ref: the movie "Animal House") is a call your going to have to make. Your the one that's "in-country" and that's the "man on the ground" and knows her best?

 

I'm an advocate for continuing to work on yourself, reading, learning, growing ~ waiting and seeing. Diplomacy, continuing showing her the viable alternative. I don't believe that (based upon your most recent post) now is the time for deadlines and ultimatims. You seem (by your posts) to be a man of characther, and strong-willed, and strong-minded enough to ride this "bi-toch" of a situation to the bitter end.

 

I advocate demonstrating by "action and deed" what she'll be losing and giving up and potentionally losing if she pursues the alternative. Either way? You'll eventually come out the winner. You've got to get your confidence back, to the point where either way ~ you'll be better off. That's a very attainable position.

 

That requires a little bit of "attitude" to where ~ and nerve ~ to where its not what you've got to lose, but what you've got to offer vs the OM?

 

There's a lot going on here. That requires a little diplomacy, patience, negotiation, tactical and strategic thinking, salesmanship, finese ~ a nerve racking experience and not for the weak-minded nor faint of heart. (The reason there are so few truly successful salesman, stockbrokers, real estate people, generals, admirals etc.)

 

Rule One to the above ~ you can't lose what you never had to begin with!

 

Rule Two if the other person doesn't want what you have to offer? Someone else will!

 

Personally if it were me ~ I'd kick her azz to the curb ~ but that's me? But, you said you wanted to take the high road ~ the harder path, so I'm giving you my best counsel that hopefully will be balanced out by others here?

 

There's a time for ultimatims ~ I just don't sense that in your case that time is now?

 

Wait and see? Sit on your hands!

[Darth Vader]

Repeat after me Psch, Women are irrelevent! Resistance is futile!

 

GOD I love being single! No worries! Why I was in walmart yesterday, and I was in the electronics, there was a man and a woman who were passing by the LCD TV's, she said to him you don't need that! Ha! I was thinking to myself, I was RIGHT!!!!! Get stuff like that before you're married so she doesn't say crap like that to ya! I've got my 42" LCD screen! Um....... What do you need women for?

 

Psch, what I'm trying to say is, if she wants out, let her go!!!!!!! You'll be better off!!!!!! You may want a 50" LCD!!! But, you'll have NO whining!!!!!!! Am I making any sense here? Dollars maybe?!!!

[Woggle]

Repeat after me Psch, Women are irrelevent! Resistance is futile!

 

GOD I love being single! No worries! Why I was in walmart yesterday, and I was in the electronics, there was a man and a woman who were passing by the LCD TV's, she said to him you don't need that! Ha! I was thinking to myself, I was RIGHT!!!!! Get stuff like that before you're married so she doesn't say crap like that to ya! I've got my 42" LCD screen! Um....... What do you need women for?

 

Psch, what I'm trying to say is, if she wants out, let her go!!!!!!! You'll be better off!!!!!! You may want a 50" LCD!!! But, you'll have NO whining!!!!!!! Am I making any sense here? Dollars maybe?!!!

 

 

Very true. You can't put a price on how precious it is not to have to deal with a woman's nagging. I am so damn lucky wife doesn't nag me and doesn't mind my toys but a man shoud always choose his electronics over a woman.

[Izzy B]

Repeat after me Psch, Women are irrelevent! Resistance is futile!

 

GOD I love being single! No worries! Why I was in walmart yesterday, and I was in the electronics, there was a man and a woman who were passing by the LCD TV's, she said to him you don't need that! Ha! I was thinking to myself, I was RIGHT!!!!! Get stuff like that before you're married so she doesn't say crap like that to ya! I've got my 42" LCD screen! Um....... What do you need women for?

 

Psch, what I'm trying to say is, if she wants out, let her go!!!!!!! You'll be better off!!!!!! You may want a 50" LCD!!! But, you'll have NO whining!!!!!!! Am I making any sense here? Dollars maybe?!!!

 

An LCD doesn't keep you warm at night. I think most men would choose that over a friggin' TV.

[Psch1968]

Woggle / DV - you are not listening - my wife does not nag, moan etc. In fact she is the opposite - she wants and values her and my independence - when I bought my 58" LCD she came with me and helped choose it!!!

 

As Izzy said, that don't keep me warm, talk to me, provide sexual or emotional interest. My wife did that exclusively.

[Psch1968]

So W is not too reciptive today - after last night had hoped she was warming up, but I had been warned so should not be so surprised. Little comments sprinkled throughout the day - clearly showing she is already out of the R. Its very disheartening, but I know what I have to do.

[Izzy B]

I'm sorry. I know you are going through a lot.

[Psch1968]

Update b4 I retire to try and get some sleep - I told her that in accepting that I had failed to meet her emotioanal needs in our marriage over last 18 months, I suspected she must be getting that support from somewhere (gentle way to bring it up I thought). She flatly denied any EA or PA, but said her friends had provided the support she needed.

 

I have decided to trust & believe her - as Gunny said, what have I got to lose if I did not have her in the first place (perhaps a bit of self pity but its sort of true).

 

I was clear that I would not raise any further q's or the R with her - ball in her court, I thought the time apart was essential for both of us, and that only time and her decision would provide a direction for 'us'. In meantime, I did gently make clear that I was on a new path, a path to a better future with OR without her, and that while I wanted her to take that journey with me to a new future (we are not saving our marriage because neither of us wanted what we had prior to the bomb - we are in fact restarting it if we decide to at all) only she could decide which route to take.

 

In the meantime, its 180's, GAL, NC, and patience - I know some on here think I should just turn the corner, kick her out, and move on - but I am not there yet, and I am willing to take the dark and lonely road a little further before I throw the towel in.

 

Now, Nytol and some sleep hopefully.....

[Psch1968]

So its early Monday. Yesterday was a good day - weather was good, I carried on doing the 180s, was cheery and bubbly, etc even though I was feeling sick inside. She joined me for lunch, we had a laugh, and then last night we spent the evening with another couple and their kids at the fair, had dinner, etc.

 

Thing is - there are moments when it is almost like she is slipping up - comments like 'we should get one of those' and 'we like shopping at' etc, but then equally she comes out with the other stuff - 'well I wont be here' and 'I need to buy a new blender as willnot have one in the new house'.

 

Meanwhile, I know this week is going to be really tough. After 7 years together, is this the final week we will ever live under the same roof? I keep thinking 'this is our last Sunday together', 'this time next week she will not be here etc' and while I know it is destructive, it is really difficult to 'suck it up' right now.

 

If there was hope, anything, I'd be better, but she really seems to be set - she has emotionally checked out some time back, and now is physically checking out. She has packed even things she really could have left here if she was even a touch doubtful, stuff like Xmas wrapping paper, etc. She seems ready to roll on with her life, and right now, that ain't with me.

 

4 hours sleep last night - gotta shake myself out of this funk and quick else I'll spiral out of control the wrong way. Without a doubt, this is the hardest mental stage I have ever experienced..... sigh

[tinke]

psych...you are not alone, we here have all felt that pain you describe.

 

we have become a society where instant gratification is acceptable, as well as encouraged (credit card apps, etc). if you are not "happy" with the current item, "partner", it can easily be discarded and replaced! no need to wait and save or salvage...you can get a better, updated model. i find it sickening to say the least.

 

i did not marry my ex of many yrs., because of his past leaving me and cheating...more than once. i needed some stability and reasurrance, then when finally, i was ready....oh yes, hmmmm...he left and cheated!!!!

 

i know the devastation you speak of. throughout these past months, i had been crazed with thoughts of him..the whys, the oh, i was sooo stupid, the what ifs, etc. he literally occupied my mind throughout the day, i prayed for relief. it's been 6 mo. since contact, and i can say that there are days i relish in living a "normal" life with only scattered thoughts of him. then there are the low days that still haunt me. but....i can say, i do not feel the physical pain, the awful gut-wretching ache, the deep forlorn.

i am saddened by his dismissal (after 10 yrs.)..he was very cold and cutting, but, i am able to see his flaws now, too. i think initially we tend to glorify our ex.

 

i am so sorry for your pain. i can tell you, i've found a wealth of support from this site...keep posting. it's unfortunate, but it seems once the other even attempts to leave, the groundwork has been set. you know now that they can easily dismiss you and the relationship. i did get back with my ex in the past, and again, the pattern repeats....the pain of going through those emotions is unbearable(and now, might i add unneccesary). i cannot understand how someone can simply disregard their partner in such a cold manner without remorse.

 

please trust, although it seems impossible now, things will get better...sleep will return, eating habits will resume..even those awful first thoughts in the AM lessen in intensity. you WILL make it through this. and not only that, but you will gain some powerful insight for you future. the ball is in her court, she knows how you feel, and that is all you can offer.

 

as you describe your story/emotions, i can easily relate to that "mental state", it's a long journey, but it will get easier. i don't believe the pain ever goes away,( lessens) but, i do believe it gets managable.

 

take care of yourself, know that you are not alone, and there are many good folks here to offer support...keep posting!