Hurt & nowhere to turn

[Psch1968]

Hi,

 

The title of my thread says it all. I was married, somewhat unhappily for 10 years to my first wife, having married too early and grown apart. After a divorce, I met my current wife with whom I have been together for 7 years, the latter 5 married. She has just told me she does not feel she wants to continue, and has asked me to 'give her space' by moving out so she can come to grips with her feelings.

 

The problems she has raised are neither new, nor to be truthful can I deny them. She tells me she still loves me, but as she would her sister - not as she expects she should her husband. She puts this down to a number of behavioural problems - my lack of willingness to hug, cuddle, & kiss more often without that leading to sex, my deprioritisation of her family & friends when I expect her to be there for mine, my sarcastic jokes when out with friends that she finds disrepsectful, and what she sees as my attempts to bribe her happiness by buying her expensive luxuries.

 

We have talked which is good, and cried together, and I have tried to make her see that I accept responsibility for these issues, that in some of these things we want the same things but we have not put in the effort a good marriage needs, that my outward attitude to her friends and the affect that is having is causing guilt now that is eating me up inside, and that I can change and become a better man because together, I believe in our marriage. I love her so much.

 

She says she has 3 problems right now - will things change, can & why will they change (despite her feeling she has raised these issues before and things have clearly not changed), and even if the answer to the first two questions is postive, does she want them to change - has the effect of 2 years of pain, frustration, and lack of hope numbed her so much that she just doesn't want to be with me irrespective.

 

My heart is completely broken - I am successful at work, have a lovely home, 2 dogs, etc - and I just don't know what else to do to try and save my marriage. I fear that if I acquiesce and move out to give her space, the inevitable consequence will be an end to our relationship/marriage (the stats dont lie I guess). At the same time, I want to do anything that will give her the belief back in our marriage and am struggling with this decision.

 

On top of all that, I am afraid of being alone. I have never been alone, having married and then remarried very fast, and have only had those two women in my life ever. At this point, the thought of my house being silent and quiet, without her, and coming home with nothing but darkness is truly frightening - and I fear for the effect this will have on my work, my family, my own passion and zest for life.

 

Not sure if anyone can help, but if someone has been in this position, some friendly honest advice would really help.

 

Gary

[Curious139]

Oh man I feel for you. I've just been through a similar conundrum - in fact am still in it except I lost the love of my life by not leaving my wife.

 

I love my wife who is a wonderful person - a better person than my lover (although she is decent too). However the feelings I have for my wife are more like for a best friend. We've been together 22 years and have 3 great children.

 

Unhappily there is no intimacy beyond hugs - which is entirely my doing. I just don't feel any passion for her and haven't for many years. We lived with that until I had an affair with an old girl-friend whom I always loved. But 22 years is a long time to walk away from, plus the children etc etc.....so I delayed...and now my lover has gone away.

 

I also have never been alone having generally had longterm relationships, so the thought of leaving my wife is frightening. I don't want to be alone either. I understand how you must feel.

 

I'd suggest relationship counselling for you as a couple. It might not heal the marriage but it may help sort out how each of you feel.

[Woggle]

You need to start learning how to be alone and be more independent. It is nothing at all that you did and women tend to turn like this at the drop of a hat. Show her that you can live without her and maybe she will respect you and come back and if not you will be okay alone. Never base your happiness on a woman because they are unstable and unpredictable. Whatever you do don't try to be mr superman now and kiss her ass because she will only lose more respect for you.

[Ladyjane14]

I fear that if I acquiesce and move out to give her space, the inevitable consequence will be an end to our relationship/marriage (the stats dont lie I guess). At the same time, I want to do anything that will give her the belief back in our marriage and am struggling with this decision.

 

Why would you be the one to move out?

Was it her house before the marriage or did you buy it together?

 

Regardless, "trial" separation increases the odds of permanent separation, so if you two don't have a plan for how you're going to address the problems within the marriage... you might as well just "rip the band-aid" now and save yourselves some heartache and grief. A "trial" separation will not save your marriage unless it's part of some grander plan.

 

If she wants to leave you... you can't stop her. But damn, do you REALLY think it's wise to HELP her do it?

[Darth Vader]

There may be someone else!

[Psch1968]

I have asked if anyone else is involved - she tells me no and I believe her. Perhaps I am naive, who can really know, but if I thought that then I would need to think about how I felt all over again.

 

The house is actually ours but in my name - but only because of the fact we are on a Visa here and her credit history was not strong enough yet. We bought it together and have lived for the last 2 years here.

 

Having looked at other posts, especially from females, there seems to be a mixed reaction to the 'space' question - its either do it and its over, or respect her request for space and take that chance. I don't want to move out, but neither do I want her to move out either and would prefer I am inconvenienced not her. Surely if I refuse, thats just another sign of my inability to prioritise her?

[Darth Vader]

At least make an agreement with her, that neither one of you will see other people. Make sure she knows that is a deal breaker! My God, I'm sounding like Dr. Phil, or something!

[Woggle]

I have asked if anyone else is involved - she tells me no and I believe her. Perhaps I am naive, who can really know, but if I thought that then I would need to think about how I felt all over again.

 

The house is actually ours but in my name - but only because of the fact we are on a Visa here and her credit history was not strong enough yet. We bought it together and have lived for the last 2 years here.

 

Having looked at other posts, especially from females, there seems to be a mixed reaction to the 'space' question - its either do it and its over, or respect her request for space and take that chance. I don't want to move out, but neither do I want her to move out either and would prefer I am inconvenienced not her. Surely if I refuse, thats just another sign of my inability to prioritise her?

 

Why should you be the one that is incoven ienced when you are not the one that wants to break this up. If she wants to leave that is her right but the house is in your name and she is the one that should have to move out. You are being a doormat right now which is a surfire way to increase the odds that this seperation is for good. Show some backbone.

[DavidB]

I'm moving out of our house in two weeks; she told me that she needed space. I don't like it, but I can't make her stay; I choose to move because I needed to have some control over the situation. She has agreed to counseling which will happen later this month. I also have set the following conditions: it will be resolved within the year and no seeing anyone else while we are working on this. She seemed hesitant about the last point, and feels that there should be some negotiation about it. I haven't gotten into it with her, I'll leave that for when we see the counselor. There has to be clear boundaries about the separation, otherwise it's becomes just a prelude to divorce.

[Darth Vader]

I'm moving out of our house in two weeks; she told me that she needed space. I don't like it, but I can't make her stay; I choose to move because I needed to have some control over the situation. She has agreed to counseling which will happen later this month. I also have set the following conditions: it will be resolved within the year and no seeing anyone else while we are working on this. She seemed hesitant about the last point, and feels that there should be some negotiation about it. I haven't gotten into it with her, I'll leave that for when we see the counselor. There has to be clear boundaries about the separation, otherwise it's becomes just a prelude to divorce.

 

 

That should tell you right there! She's seeing someone! She's banging some other guy! Don't you dare move out of that house, you make her move! She wanted this, she pays for it, not you! Pack her stuff and tell her to get out!

[Woggle]

That should tell you right there! She's seeing someone! She's banging some other guy! Don't you dare move out of that house, you make her move! She wanted this, she pays for it, not you! Pack her stuff and tell her to get out!

 

Listen to Darth Vader David. Stand your ground and tell her she needs to move out.

[Ladyjane14]

Here's a thread for you David B and Psch1968.

It's long but worthwhile...

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t49359/

 

The moral of the story is don't give up your home and all your stuff. When a woman is bent on leaving you... that's what she does.

[sumdude]

Listen to them man... Just been through it all myself now seven months later. At least mine had the decency to move out.... Seriously if she wants out of the marriage then she gets out of the house NOT YOU.

 

Mine talked as if she wanted to work things out but that didn;'t last more than 2 months or so. In most cases once the "I Need Space" talk and separation happens that's the ball game. She's been thinking about it a long time and you've had no clue... Keep the house by staying in it. If one day she's serious about working things out she have to come back to you.

[DavidB]

I'm pretty positive she's not seeing anyone else. I'm moving out, because this is the adventure she wanted: a nice apartment downtown with a gorgeous view of the river valley and a very urban lifestyle.

 

She may be lying to me, it has crossed my mind, but she doesn't lie very well and cannot keep a secret. Hard to believe, but it is true. I have no reason to distrust her, and will not until I see otherwise.

 

I look forward to the move; she can keep the house maintained, she can look after the dogs, she can mow the lawn and shovel the walks etc. In addition I'm taking the good bed, the good TV, and anything else I need.

 

Thanks for the advice, but at the moment I am content with my decision. As painful as this is, the emotions will pass and I will live to see the next day regardless of her actions.

[Gunny376]

They're both setting you up, telling you lies and feeding you candy ~ its over. Go ahead grab up all your gear, don't forget the bat bag, and head for the showers.

 

Now, you can do this the hard way (your way) or you can listen to the collective experience and wisdom of the members of this board. Either way you want to do it, it matters not to us.

 

Me? Ain't no freaking way I'd move out ~ why should I. I worked for and earned all that stuff, and have just as much right to it as she does. She wants out? Alrighty then ~ when is your azz moving ~ because I've got to get busy with getting busy with getting over you, and getting my head and azz wired backed together, getting my act together, letting all the ladies know I'm free and back out there on the street again. So many women, so little time! What one will abuse, ~ another can certainly use!

 

Forget this I need some time and space business. Like I told my last LTR GF, (who lived in North Carolina with my being in Alabama ~ I was on the verge of moving back to NC) "You take the rest of your life, and stay in NC, and I'll stay my azz in Ala, and if that's not enough time and space for you azz, you just let me know and I'll move my azz to Texas!

 

What they're saying here is that their "just not feeling it for you anymore" Her fault, your fault, no-one's fault ~ its over! And until you see some hard corps evidence to the contary ~ that's the way you need to approach.

 

Look!

 

You could be into cross-dressing and having sex with clowns and dancing bears ~ all kinds of weird stuff ~ and if a woman is feeling it for you, there's no way she's going to dump you. Hell, they'll even help you rationalize and justify it. But if she's not feeling it for you ~ you could be richer than Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, and Donald Trump combined and be up for sainthood, and nothing you do would be good enough.

 

Marriage couseling? Give me a break! Half (per the general population) of that bunch are divorced themselves, and they're going to tell me how to fix my marriage? Ann Landers got divorce for crying out loud!

 

Right now your mind is locked in an illreconciable logic matriix. Your mind is "looping" Your trying to fix something that can't be fixed. Why?

 

Time

 

The time to start working on your marriage, "happly ever after" was the day you got married. Trouble is? You had a miscule fraction of the knowlege, experience that you needed when you started out. The way to "happly ever after" is one day at a time. Putting your wife front and center every single second, minute, hour, day, week, month, year of your life ~ (and her doing the same) and putting "us" first for the rest of your life the very second you said "I do!"

 

But you didn't have that.

 

Marriage is really a simple equation ~ "Woman Happy? Man Happy!" Woman not happy ~ nobody's happy! Keep a smile on woman's face ~ good to go! Hug, cuddle, hold hands twenty or forty times without expectation of sex? You get sex. Treat her like a VLSS ~ Vaginal Life Support System ~ a Sperm depoistory ~ no sex! Treat her like a human being instead of a "piece of meat", a person, an individual, value her, put her up on an emotional pedestial, keep her smiliing, laughing, enjoying being with you, having fun with her ~ you won't have a problem with her.

 

Put her before any and all else? She'll cherish you!

[h2ofrek]

Psych,

I am reading a book that has illuminated a lot of issues that I never dealt with while I was married and it is helping me to see and understand why I was so selfish

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling/dp/0425191656/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-3830867-8922867?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1186377311&sr=1-1

This is the link to it. I did not realize just how controlling and manipulative I was in our relationship and my life is reading just like your's right now. I hope you get a copy of it and look to see if there are any parallels with your relationships. I may have different issues than you, but then again, I may have the same.

Take care of you

[Gunny376]

Whooooo, hold the **** up there big fella! You're really starting to piss me off! You're wrapping the "blanket of shame" all about you.

 

You didn't get where your at on you own!

 

You had help!

 

Your parents, your teachers, your "DI" (I don't know what they call them in the Navy?) Your 18 years in the Navy. There was a Hell of a lot info you didnt have when going into this marriage business! News your azz could have used!

 

Its not all your fault! Quit "I could of, should of!"

 

 

OJT? It's a piss of a poor way to go into combat or marriage! I'll die a Spartian!

[Psch1968]

Well first, I thank you all for the advice. I was taken aback at being told I had no 'backbone' but perhaps truth hurts and my perspective here has been truly screwed!

 

But, I took some of the advice, ignored others. I am going to accept the marriage is likely over, and instead trying to 'word' my way out of it and plead for 2nd chance blah blah, make it clear that I am going to move on - so while I am going to move out for a limited period, I am doing so with a clear timeline, clear expectation, and that if she wants that to change, she initiates.

 

Thursday is D-Day. Have absolutely no idea what I will do at weekends (quite bloody sad really) but having spent 18 years with a companion and planned activities as a couple, I'll now have to get used to planning on my own.

 

Thankyou all

[Woggle]

This is step in the right direction but she should move out and when she does throw a big party. My friend thew a seperation BBQ on memorial day weekend and it was very healing for him.

[Darth Vader]

I'm pretty positive she's not seeing anyone else. I'm moving out, because this is the adventure she wanted: a nice apartment downtown with a gorgeous view of the river valley and a very urban lifestyle.

 

She may be lying to me, it has crossed my mind, but she doesn't lie very well and cannot keep a secret. Hard to believe, but it is true. I have no reason to distrust her, and will not until I see otherwise.

 

I look forward to the move; she can keep the house maintained, she can look after the dogs, she can mow the lawn and shovel the walks etc. In addition I'm taking the good bed, the good TV, and anything else I need.

 

Thanks for the advice, but at the moment I am content with my decision. As painful as this is, the emotions will pass and I will live to see the next day regardless of her actions.

 

 

Cheaters get really good at lying, there is someone you just don't know about, from work, from a gym, anywhere! By the way, wouldn't it be nice to have the though of who she riding in your house, in your bed, then all of a sudden your wify wants to get back together with you after she's had all her fun, but you have that same fun as she did? FORGET IT MISTER, she would say! Talk about double standards! Plus, because you left the home, she can file for divorce under abandonment! Gotcha, you're screwed, and she gets the house and everything, and you get the bill for her affair!WAKE UP MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Psch1968]

So having spent another 36 hours in limbo, wracking my mind with doubt, and reading a lot of the threads on here, I am more confused than ever. My wife has been in quite a good mood last couple nights and has not mentioned anything. We went to a Police concert Sunday night in NYC and though aura was cool, we sort of enjoyed the experience.

 

A very good friend of mine (in an 18 year very happy marriage) has given me some other advice. He believes my alpha personality at work (I am a successful C level exec in the city so am very aggressive etc at work) has rubbed off on the relationship with my wife and that I have inadvertently controlled the relationship where she is totally subserviant to me - not a situation likely to engender a long term happy marriage. Also, he bought to light the fact I occassionally poke fun at my wife with friends - and that resonates with something she said to me about feeling disrespected. All in all, I think she has lost her identity, her zest for life, and that seems to be down to my controlling influence - I am not beating myself up about it, just being realistic. My first marriage contained the same traits.

 

So can I address those. She has told me she thinks those character traits won't ever fundamentally change, and that while I may go 3 weeks, 3 months making the difference, the natural influence will return.

 

I've opened up and told her all this, it seemed to hit a chord, but not sure it's making the difference right now. I am still getting nothing back in the way of reciprocation despite my attempts to show her that I can mean to change those aspects of our relationship.

 

Have not told her I intend to move out to give her space, so thats not a done deal - but still feels like there's some 'secret sauce' that we will either find or not, to put this marriage back together again.

 

Is there anyone with good advice on what I can do next, other than the general advice here which seems to be to tell her that if she wants space, she must move out?

[Gunny376]

A very good friend of mine (in an 18 year very happy marriage) has given me some other advice. He believes my alpha personality at work (I am a successful C level exec in the city so am very aggressive etc at work) has rubbed off on the relationship with my wife and that I have inadvertently controlled the relationship where she is totally subserviant to me - not a situation likely to engender a long term happy marriage. Also, he bought to light the fact I occassionally poke fun at my wife with friends - and that resonates with something she said to me about feeling disrespected. All in all, I think she has lost her identity, her zest for life, and that seems to be down to my controlling influence - I am not beating myself up about it, just being realistic. My first marriage contained the same traits.

 

So can I address those. She has told me she thinks those character traits won't ever fundamentally change, and that while I may go 3 weeks, 3 months making the difference, the natural influence will return.

 

I've opened up and told her all this, it seemed to hit a chord, but not sure it's making the difference right now. I am still getting nothing back in the way of reciprocation despite my attempts to show her that I can mean to change those aspects of our relationship.

 

Have not told her I intend to move out to give her space, so thats not a done deal - but still feels like there's some 'secret sauce' that we will either find or not, to put this marriage back together again.

 

Is there anyone with good advice on what I can do next, other than the general advice here which seems to be to tell her that if she wants space, she must move out?

 

Per another thread, women keep track of any and all transgressions against them. Not just what you did or said, but what you didn't say and do. You can be walking through the mall, and something will remind them of it, set them off, and they can re-call every detail of something that you did, didn't do, say or didn't say. Its a gift I guess.

 

I call it the "sack" ~ Lakesidedreams calls it the book.

 

The way it works, is when a man gets with a woman ~ he also gets a sack. Everything you say or don't say that's not right, do or don't do goes into the sack~ nothing said. But when the sack is full? She's done with you! Your sack is just about full!

 

Lady Jane equates it to a bank account. You need to make more deposits than you do withdrawals. More "deposits" than "debits"

 

Can you change? Permantely? Of course you can ~ its called behavorial modivication. But? It takes awarness, and work. Its fundamental. Say you like Key Lime Pie, but everytime you reach for some Key Lime Pie, I wear you out with a Louville Slugger ~ I can promise you! Over a given amount of time ~ you'll lose your taste for Key Lime Pie!

 

In Marine bootcamp the salad bar was one of the self serve items. I loaded up on some Cole Slaw. By the time my DI got done with me? (He made me eat about a pound of it, then drink salt water, then exercised me until I puked) To this day I don't eat cole slaw. I also don't eat chocolate, candy, cake, pie, nor drink soda's. I simply don't have a taste for it! Before? I did, but three months with a health-nut of a Marine DI, I lost all and any taste for it!

 

Can you change? Yea you can. I'm not the same person I was seventeen years ago. I'm not the same person I was ten years ago!

[Darth Vader]

The only problem with that Gunny is, when someone changes drasticly like that, they lose a part of themselves, or they completely lose themselves. They're not the same person they were at all! Then Wifey says, "You're not the person I married" BULLCRAP! Well, DUH! You changed him! You got what you wanted. It's like Mr. Spock said, "To have is not always as good as to want, It is illogical, but often true"!

[Psch1968]

Well against the advice of many here, I agreed to move out for 2 weeks, and I am headed to Europe to stay with friends. Does that mean I have rolled over - maybe? Does this guarantee the end - perhaps? But even if thats true, I'd prefer to know and move on, as opposed stay in the same house and just live a lie. We'll see what the next 2 weeks brings I guess. And Sonitas, I read your note about hope, and it really inspired me - for that, I thank you.

[Mz. Pixie]

You could be into cross-dressing and having sex with clowns and dancing bears ~ all kinds of weird stuff ~ and if a woman is feeling it for you, there's no way she's going to dump you. Hell, they'll even help you rationalize and justify it. But if she's not feeling it for you ~ you could be richer than Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, and Donald Trump combined and be up for sainthood, and nothing you do would be good enough.

 

Marriage is really a simple equation ~ "Woman Happy? Man Happy!" Woman not happy ~ nobody's happy! Keep a smile on woman's face ~ good to go! Hug, cuddle, hold hands twenty or forty times without expectation of sex? You get sex. Treat her like a VLSS ~ Vaginal Life Support System ~ a Sperm depoistory ~ no sex! Treat her like a human being instead of a "piece of meat", a person, an individual, value her, put her up on an emotional pedestial, keep her smiliing, laughing, enjoying being with you, having fun with her ~ you won't have a problem with her.

 

Put her before any and all else? She'll cherish you!

 

This is so true Guns- you really know women!