CaliMan2 Posted August 3, 2007 Posted August 3, 2007 When we got together and moved in together it was clear that my wage alone wasn't going to support the type of lifestyle that she and I wanted so she decided to get a job with our ultimate goal to buy a house. During the time when she wasn't working when we were short on money, I would pay for things on my credit cards under the impression that she had no money to contribute at the time which wasn't a concern to me. She informed me that she had a trust fund but wasn't able to access it without giving two weeks notice which I was skeptical about but took her word on. I stated early on that when she started working I thought it was best to keep our individual moneys seperate to avoid arguments but she was extremely adamant on sharing our funds and being open so I agreed and we opened up a joint account with which we shared our incomes and expenses. My credit card repayments were taking a chunk out of "our" money and we had a few arguments regarding this along the way. A few months after she started working, we started to look applying for finance to buy a house and she informed me that in this account she had around $3000 which is in line with what she told me earlier. I started making enquiries regarding our eligibility for finance (which was always going in her name for tax reasons). I noticed that the amount she was supposed to be getting from her work wasn't going into our account. I quizzed her about it and she told me that her work must have stuffed it up and she'll get onto it, I didn't think anything of it but asked her a couple more times to follow it up because the bank would take notice of that and she said she would but never did. One day she got some mail and I noticed she quickly took it away from my line of vision. Curious I said, what's that? She told me that it was just a bank statement. I said can I have a look? so she gave it to me and she had $10,000. She had been using this account throughout our whole time together constantly retopping it to give her a square $10,000 amount. The reason a small portion of her regular pay was missing wasn't because work stuffed it up but because it was going into this other accuont. She told me to my face that she didn't realise she had that much and that her parents must've deposited some even though in black and white infront of me it listed all the purcahses she had previously made from the account with around $10,000 in there. I felt extremely betrayed by this but already had my suspicions. She finally admitted it after she couldn't say otherwise due to the statement infront of me. I have since come to grips with this and said that we should seperate our money. Today, when she was short on funds, she asked me for money, and I got aggravated by this as I feel as though she has ripped me off enough and should take money out of her $10,000. In her defence, she says that she wants that money to stay there for a house deposit and doesn't want to touch it and that was the plan for her all along. I don't acknowledge that reason as all along I had no knowledge of this money she had and agreed to share my money with her in a joint account as well as spending for us on my credit cards when she had this cash in her account. I feel cheated by her and whenever money is raised now in most contexts it is a sour point for me and quite often can lead to an unpleasant argument. The questions I propose is, Is this a big deal? Should I get over it? How would other people react? Should I look at it as though she was just protecting this money and trying to preserve it for a house for us? or that she was flat out lying to me and that's unacceptable in any context?
IfWishesWereHorses Posted August 3, 2007 Posted August 3, 2007 If she was saving the money for a house for the two of you then she would have been proud of that fact, not hiding it from you. To me that's a major breech of trust. Hiding the receipt for the shoes she bought, I might say was understandable but should be worked out. This woman sounds, from the information given here, like a taker. Does she have any other explanations that could possible make sense? Also, you might want to try the marriage forum in the future instead of dating. I would take hiding any significant amount of money as a purposeful betrayal.
Replicant Posted August 3, 2007 Posted August 3, 2007 Well i would think that having a joint account pooling so much every pay cycle per person towards a house would be the right approach and it's not touched..period. Where as her having a secret account under the radar, while at the same time lying and depleting your funds. Seems more like deception and theft to me.
jcster Posted August 3, 2007 Posted August 3, 2007 I can certainly understand why you are upset. I would definitely consider this to be a major breech of trust. At this point, I think it is very wise to separate your finances, and, if it were me, I would delay buying the house until you can come to terms with this situation. I would also urge you, when you do decide to buy a home, to NOT put it solely into your wife's name unless you live in a community property state. Have you considered going to couple's counseling? After a major fracture of faith, it might not be a bad idea. I personally would have a very hard time coming to terms with this type of behavior.
Art_Critic Posted August 3, 2007 Posted August 3, 2007 I wouldn't go as far as to say a breach of trust or betrayal has happened because I really don't know the reason she compiled the money...but I will say that her saving that kind of money behind your back IS a symptom that something else is wrong in your marriage. My step mother hid a bank account from my father (30k).. he was a serial cheater and she was doing it to leave him. He found out about the account and spent it on an addition/remodel to the house. I'm not saying she is preparing to leave you but I'm saying that there is another reason other than saving for a house that she was creating such a large amount.. all the while pulling that kind of dough from the cash flow of the household. I think you need to do a real introspection of your marriage and possibly get into counseling to find out what drove her to this.. It very well might be something benign like she has a phobia of not having any money from something that happened in her childhood.. either way it is time to act..
Hazy Posted August 3, 2007 Posted August 3, 2007 I think she is a smart woman. You now have $10,000 that wouldn't be there if you had known about it (you would have spent it.) About her needing more money, I don't know. If you have it, give it to her. Dude, she will be able to put a down payment on a house for you two. How many wives give their husbands such a gift?
taiko Posted August 3, 2007 Posted August 3, 2007 There are two types of people in my opinion. Savers and spenders. If the saver doesn't hide the money or lock it away in tax advantaged accounts then the spender will always find an emergency to raid the fund he knows about. If you knew that $10,000 was there face it you wouldn't have paid off your credit cards instead you would have in mind that is what the $10,000 is for. And all the emergencies handled in the past would have stripped away the rest of the money and today you would be in the exact same position just gripping about a $1000 emergency fund.
norajane Posted August 3, 2007 Posted August 3, 2007 I think she is a smart woman. You now have $10,000 that wouldn't be there if you had known about it (you would have spent it.) About her needing more money, I don't know. If you have it, give it to her. Dude, she will be able to put a down payment on a house for you two. How many wives give their husbands such a gift? Yeah, keep riding that monthly 19% interest on the credit cards instead of paying them off. Makes great sense when savings accounts are paying diddly squat on interest. Lose money every month! Great plan! We have no idea why she was saving that money. She SAYS it was for down payment, but odds are, it wasn't. I think she just said that because she got caught hiding all that money.
Hazy Posted August 6, 2007 Posted August 6, 2007 Yeah, keep riding that monthly 19% interest on the credit cards instead of paying them off. Makes great sense when savings accounts are paying diddly squat on interest. Lose money every month! Great plan! We have no idea why she was saving that money. She SAYS it was for down payment, but odds are, it wasn't. I think she just said that because she got caught hiding all that money. Well, whether one has credit card payments or not, as Taiko has stated pretty much, you DO need to have a savings account for emergencies, etc. At least $10,000. They say you should have a few months salary in savings in the case you should lose your job, etc. I do believe she was just being smart. Also he is learning the value of money and paying on credit cards and sticking to it. He should hang on to her, they have $10,000, it's like a surprise gift. Also, Nora, I'm confused. You have to have pretty bad credit to have a 19% interest rate. I am not reading that this is the actual interest rate he is paying on the cards, hon. I have a credit card with 0% interest, hon.
Reckless Posted August 6, 2007 Posted August 6, 2007 There are two schools of thought here: 1) that you are a bad investment and that she was wisely keeping her money from you so that it wouldn't be eaten away by your bad financial decisions 2) that she was a liar and a cheat and that she effectively "betrayed" your trust while possible ensuring a financial safety net should your marriage fail The truth is probably somewhere between the two but one thing is certain: You cannot have a marriage that survives without trust and honesty. Lying and secrecy add (as you have seen) to resentment which will fester and grow and eventually lead to the failure of your union. What to do? Get over it. Talk about what you both feel, get to the bottom of why this happened, be open about the resentment and work out a financial plan you can both live with honestly. Joint or seperate is not the issue, honestly and lack of resentment is.
amerikajin Posted August 6, 2007 Posted August 6, 2007 I think she is a smart woman. You now have $10,000 that wouldn't be there if you had known about it (you would have spent it.) About her needing more money, I don't know. If you have it, give it to her. Dude, she will be able to put a down payment on a house for you two. How many wives give their husbands such a gift? Pfffffff....whatever. "Smart"? Try dishonest, cunning and manipulative. All the qualities I could ever want in a woman. Hate to say it, OP, but your marriage is f*cked. It was from day one, you just didn't know it. This story does not have a happy ending.
jcster Posted August 6, 2007 Posted August 6, 2007 Hate to say it, OP, but your marriage is f*cked. It was from day one, you just didn't know it. This story does not have a happy ending. To everyone that says: "Hey! She saved you a bunch of money...you should be happy!" .... No, not so much. Let's just assume for a moment that she had completely innocent plans for that money. To secretly route money from her paycheck, to a secret bank account, while the OP is faithfully banking everything he has - is dishonest in the extreme. It says (at best) I don't trust you to manage your money - I don't even trust you to KNOW about it! At BEST, it's patronizing as hell. I don't for a moment imagine that his wife had his best interests at heart by this maneuver. She's no fiscal wizard - she sucked up his money so that she could save hers. It's an incredibly selfish act. And yes, I think your marriage is in bigggg trouble.
Trialbyfire Posted August 6, 2007 Posted August 6, 2007 My issue would be her insistence on having joint monies. Without this aspect of needing to have access and control of your combined income, I would say she's a smart woman for ensuring that she has a nest egg to pull out during hard times, whether this is joint hard times or her own individual need. Since she insisted on sharing yours, she needed to share hers. She's not too smart with the bank statements and should have had them forwarded to another address. Also, the amount would have come out during your mortgage application, so why bother lying about it when you asked? If the statements are being sent to her, the account is in her name which will be traceable by the financial institution providing your mortgage. Overall, I would say you have problems.
amerikajin Posted August 6, 2007 Posted August 6, 2007 My issue would be her insistence on having joint monies. Without this aspect of needing to have access and control of your combined income, I would say she's a smart woman for ensuring that she has a nest egg to pull out during hard times, whether this is joint hard times or her own individual need. Since she insisted on sharing yours, she needed to share hers. She's not too smart with the bank statements and should have had them forwarded to another address. Also, the amount would have come out during your mortgage application, so why bother lying about it when you asked? If the statements are being sent to her, the account is in her name which will be traceable by the financial institution providing your mortgage. Overall, I would say you have problems. Ya think?! I can't believe some of the garbage I'm reading on this thread - not from you TBF, but from others. It's almost like some people are trying to be her apologist, as though she has some divine right to be in control of the finances and the ends somehow justify the means. I swear, it's situations like these that make me think we really need to change the way we do marriage. We need a cooling off or probationary period. Maybe a good year or two to see if it's really going to work out, or if it was a mistake. Same basic rules as marriage, but if at any point before the end of that period one or the other wants to leave, no hard feelings and the assets should be divided according to terms agreed upon before marriage. But this whole lifelong commitment crap just doesn't seem to be working for the vast majority of people.
JamesM Posted August 6, 2007 Posted August 6, 2007 I don't think we have enough information here to decide what her motive or reason for keeping this money separate is. Did she spend money from this account for her own personal things while regular bills were being ignored? Or did she have this account because she wanted a savings net for emergencies? And if she had it for emergencies, why did she feel she had to hide it? Does Brizza and his wife have different financial mindsets? It is never good to hide something from your spouse especially in the area of finance, but Art Critic made some good points. If she has been keeping the account at 10 grand, why that number? And what was the reason it was going down? Did she have it as an escape route if the marriage fails or as an emergency fund for the two of them? Personally, I think that this marriage has more problems than money being hidden, but I think for informed advice to be given, we need to be informed. Now that the money is out in the open, honest communication is needed. I understand why you feel betrayed, but her motives may have been "good," even though her way of doing it were not. She should have said that she had that account and why, but my guess is that if she had told you, there would have been big arguments regarding what should be done with the money. The talk between you should focus on why she felt she had to hide it, and how you can get her to trust you. And of course, she will have to regain your trust.
JamesM Posted August 6, 2007 Posted August 6, 2007 http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t126301/ I think if everyone reads this above thread, there will be a little more understanding of what is going on here. Since your first thread here on LS is regarding a GF who you fell madly in love with...(December 2006), http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t107357/ and your next thread (link at the top of my post) is about your wife being the Paris Hilton type (August 1, 2007), I am guessing that somewhere in that time period you either married the GF from December or you have met someone new and married her. Now, I am not sure what her motivation is, but if the two of you have "fights," arguments, or disagreements regarding what she should or should not buy, then this may be part of her motivation. And ARE her parents involved in her life? Was she used to living the Paris Hilton type of life? Being that you are 21, I am guessing that she is a similar age. You are both on the younger side when it comes to playing house. And since it appears that the two of you have not been married for too long, part of this is an adjustment to marriage. You both need to decide what is more important...the marriage or your own self. Says she is too stupid to make decisions, but insists on being the boss and if you try to tell her what to do, will accuse you of being a controlling pig. I quote this from your Paris Hilton thread. If she feels that you are controlling...which many men and women can be when first married, then this may be her motive. I suggest that the two of you get counseling now while your marriage is yet young. Many, many couples get divorced in the first couple of years, because they never learn to adjust to each other.
Brad_from_NJ Posted August 6, 2007 Posted August 6, 2007 In my book, it's over. You were lucky to find that statement. And lucky this is over $10,000, not something much bigger. My advice? Pack.
JamesM Posted August 6, 2007 Posted August 6, 2007 In my book, it's over. You were lucky to find that statement. And lucky this is over $10,000, not something much bigger. My advice? Pack. IMHO, this is not good advice. From what we read, Brizza has barely been married any length of time. His wife has not cheated on him. She had a separate account for who knows why, but she admitted to it...after being cornered. So, we now have a problem that needs discussing. As a man who has been married over 17 years, this IS an issue that can be resolved. She may be immature...and I suspect that she is, or you may be over-controlling...and I suspect there is some of that, too. Walking away will leave you with the idea that you never really resolved this issue or others. And from what I read, it is not that you do not love her. It is a matter of adjustment. The biggest problem is her lies about money. Why has she hidden the money? Is she unsure if this recent marriage will last? Since you come from a divorced background, is she afraid YOU will divorce her? Delve into this and solve it. Do not become another divorce statistic. There are enough of them in the world and on this board.
Hazy Posted August 7, 2007 Posted August 7, 2007 Ya think?! I can't believe some of the garbage I'm reading on this thread - not from you TBF, but from others. It's almost like some people are trying to be her apologist, as though she has some divine right to be in control of the finances and the ends somehow justify the means. I swear, it's situations like these that make me think we really need to change the way we do marriage. We need a cooling off or probationary period. Maybe a good year or two to see if it's really going to work out, or if it was a mistake. Same basic rules as marriage, but if at any point before the end of that period one or the other wants to leave, no hard feelings and the assets should be divided according to terms agreed upon before marriage. But this whole lifelong commitment crap just doesn't seem to be working for the vast majority of people. Sorry but I don't see how having a $10,000 surprise is a bad thing. If I found out my husband was saving $10,000 for us as building us a nestegg I would be happy. I think the guys are getting upset because she is smart and doing something on her own which is smart, but the men like to be the control freaks. Amerika, dude, you need to chill. This guy didn't state his wife was asking for divorce....you are blowing it way out of proportion and are a hothead.
JamesM Posted August 7, 2007 Posted August 7, 2007 Sorry but I don't see how having a $10,000 surprise is a bad thing. If I found out my husband was saving $10,000 for us as building us a nestegg I would be happy. I think the guys are getting upset because she is smart and doing something on her own which is smart, but the men like to be the control freaks. Amerika, dude, you need to chill. This guy didn't state his wife was asking for divorce....you are blowing it way out of proportion and are a hothead. Hazy, it may help if you take a look at his other threads. This is more than a husband or a wife hiding money for a down payment on a house.
Hazy Posted August 7, 2007 Posted August 7, 2007 Hazy, it may help if you take a look at his other threads. This is more than a husband or a wife hiding money for a down payment on a house. Uhhh, I don't recall asking for help, dude.
JamesM Posted August 7, 2007 Posted August 7, 2007 Uhhh, I don't recall asking for help, dude. Anyone who comes to this Board is asking for help. But humor aside, my point is that a marriage takes mutual trust and honesty. It takes open and honest revelations. It takes mutual "control" of everything. So when one partner decides on his or her own to take charge of something as important as finances without the other partner's agreement, then there is bound to be some feelings of anger and betrayal. I agree....if my wife had 10 grand hid in a bank account as a nest egg, I think I would like that as well. But I know that she would tell me that she is doing it. However, if she had 10 grand in a bank account that she was using for her own personal shopping while WE as a couple were using credit cards to cover bills...and she was asking me for more money, THEN I think the problem goes beyond simply... I think the guys are getting upset because she is smart and doing something on her own which is smart, but the men like to be the control freaks. At least on this we agree... Amerika, dude, you need to chill. By far not all men are control freaks. Many of us prefer a mutual marital government.
amerikajin Posted August 7, 2007 Posted August 7, 2007 Sorry but I don't see how having a $10,000 surprise is a bad thing. If I found out my husband was saving $10,000 for us as building us a nestegg I would be happy. I think the guys are getting upset because she is smart and doing something on her own which is smart, but the men like to be the control freaks. Amerika, dude, you need to chill. This guy didn't state his wife was asking for divorce....you are blowing it way out of proportion and are a hothead. I guess I just see marriage a little bit differently than you do. I see marriage as something that is predicated on this little thing called integrity. I'd be upset if my partner so much as "borrowed" $10 from me without asking - because it's dishonest. It shows me that she doesn't respect me. It shows me she can't be trusted. Let alone the fact that she's hiding enough to buy a car!!! Her actions are not without consequences, either. "My credit card repayments were taking a chunk out of "our" money and we had a few arguments regarding this along the way. " He put items on his credit card why?! Because he wasn't aware that he had the money to pay for it in a more fiscally disciplined manner. When exactly was she going to tell him anyway? She's sitting there all the while, knowing that he's scrounging around to find money to pay for the things he wants and needs while she's got her own private stash on the side. Why? I'll tell you why: because she's a selfish c*nt. She's not saving money so she can fund their lifestyle, she's saving so she can finance hers. I can only go by what information has been revealed in the original post - if that's not the full story then I'd be glad to revise my comments. But based on what I've read thus far, I don't see how anyone with a shred of sense can see it any other way. And I'm sorry, when someone's so dishonest as to hide $10,000 from their partner, you have to wonder what else they're hiding.
InLimbo2 Posted August 8, 2007 Posted August 8, 2007 you all are missing some important points they aren't married, the bank acct was in her name only, and the plan was to put the house in her name only, he must be able to manage his money - she's asking him for money to pay her bills when she's got 10K socked away. Didn't he also say that he put stuff on his card when she was short on cash herself? saying your employer screwed up your paycheck deposits is outright lying - wouldn't YOU know if your paycheck was short? employers would make that up right away - not months later. she lied, betrayed his trust, and sounds to me like she's setting herself up to be in control and with all the power when it comes to the house. Well, whether one has credit card payments or not, as Taiko has stated pretty much, you DO need to have a savings account for emergencies, etc. At least $10,000. They say you should have a few months salary in savings in the case you should lose your job, etc. I do believe she was just being smart. Also he is learning the value of money and paying on credit cards and sticking to it. He should hang on to her, they have $10,000, it's like a surprise gift. Also, Nora, I'm confused. You have to have pretty bad credit to have a 19% interest rate. I am not reading that this is the actual interest rate he is paying on the cards, hon. I have a credit card with 0% interest, hon.
InLimbo2 Posted August 8, 2007 Posted August 8, 2007 something bout that is not quite right when you are squirrling away cash to leave a marriage, you don't put his name on the bank account, and if his name wasn't on it - he couldn't take any money out or use it for any purpose I wouldn't go as far as to say a breach of trust or betrayal has happened because I really don't know the reason she compiled the money...but I will say that her saving that kind of money behind your back IS a symptom that something else is wrong in your marriage. My step mother hid a bank account from my father (30k).. he was a serial cheater and she was doing it to leave him. He found out about the account and spent it on an addition/remodel to the house. I'm not saying she is preparing to leave you but I'm saying that there is another reason other than saving for a house that she was creating such a large amount.. all the while pulling that kind of dough from the cash flow of the household. I think you need to do a real introspection of your marriage and possibly get into counseling to find out what drove her to this.. It very well might be something benign like she has a phobia of not having any money from something that happened in her childhood.. either way it is time to act..
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