Pity Party Everyone is Envited!

[East of Jupiter]

I'm having one of those days and I could use advice and support.

 

Some of you know my story. I don't want to restate it here. Husband is non-too sucessful womanizer. Actually he is a good guy who can't seem to figure anything out. Mother Castrating Female and father Emasculated Male.

 

If you met or knew my husband you would like him instantly and would immeidately notice his devotion to his family.

 

He cheated a week after our first physical seperation upon going home for a visit. He cheated again the night before I moved from my home town to live with him in another town. He tried cheating when we first got our computers back in the day -- he just didn't get to go through with it. He cheated during the time we were mourning the loss of a baby several months gestation. Finally, he cheated long-distance having phone and cyber sex. The entire time we have enjoyed a happy marriage and an incredible sex life. Up until DD we had never so much as had a serious argument.

 

I didn't know, though I suspected, about the past until after DD. I went t to counseling. He relunctantly went to counseling but only for handful (if that) visits.

 

It's been many hard years working our way back to a comfortable place but I felt we were getting there.

 

H is not in sales but his job requires him to work with a lot of sales people. He can be found on any given day at a breakfast or lunch or at a hotel for a conference. He also travels out of town about four times a year. Yes, he could have changed his job but it pays well and as far as I'm concerned, he could find a way to cheat with any job and under any circumstances. All I ask is that he be honest about where he is and the women he does work with closely. Closely. I am not interested in dogging his every move and I haven't.

 

I have more pride than brains. I do not call him during work hours. He wishes I would. I don't ask him who was where when. I don't dig or question or anything. Actually I'm not sure that this has been a good thing but that is what my pride allows. He leaves his computer open and I know his passwords (I forget because I don't use it). I pay the bills and have acess to everything. I don't check up on him.

 

Recently I felt hinky about things and I did look at his emails. He knows I did. I saw an exchange that made me uncomfortable but I didn't say anything to him. It could be nothing and there was no need. Instead, I gave him opportunities to tell me about this lady he works with off and on. He never mentioned her. FF to a few months ago and I hear him speaking to someone about this particular lady being in town for something or another. This time, I ask him about her. He gives me the old blank stare. Oh, her she's someone I work with but have little contact with. I told him I had seen the contact and that yes it was nothing but I felt uncomfortable about it. He explained what I saw is what it was and there was nothing else to say. Mind you he was honest and not defensive and I accepted his explanation. He works with a lot of women but mostly men.

 

Three weeks ago he left his work journal open and I saw that that very Monday, this same woman had been in town but he had not mentioned she was a part of the training that went on. I asked him about it and he said he meant to tell me but just got busy. We really didn't get too far in that before he said that there was another lady that he had been working about that he had not told me about. Yes, I had seen her name on the journal on the next page and I think he knew that. I didn't ask about it but he told me. I was not going to ask about the other name on his journal as there are many and I just don't pay attention to it all.

 

Well this other one he didn't tell me about is someone not OUT OF TOWN but someone here and someone that he does work closely with. And when I mean closely, I mean she is in on meetings, training, lunches ...whatever is going on with the account. This particular woman had replaced another lady he HAD told me about. He had even given me an update on this other women as she had health problems but he had not told me she had been replaced. Mind you he likes to describe the women he works with even though I tell him it makes no difference to me. He thinks if he tells me they are old or overweight or ugly that I will feel better. As the women he chose in the past were not exactly beauty queens he well knows I don't buy any of it but I let him describe away.

 

The reason he didn't tell me about this new lady whom he has been working with for the past several months (six?)? This is so insulting and degrading that I have a hard time even repeating it here.

 

"she is attractive and young and I the type you would have a problem with." "I wanted to avoid a conflict." "I wanted to avoid an emotional disscussion like the one we are having now."

 

I find out that he has been going to lunch almost weekly for the past several months with this woman there. Not alone, they always meet in groups. However, he had made a point of telling me who all is with him at these meetings but he did not tell me that this new womean had been attending all along. I am his sounding board for work and know as much about the business as he does. So I know all the players and the issues and often give him advise and help him draft letters and reports.

 

Now, I have NEVER had a problem with any of the women he works with and he has told me about the slutty ones and the one in particular known for exposing her implants and inviting others to feel them. He has also told me in the past when there are women involved in his function. Or so I thought. He volunteers this information, as I said, I don't question anymore.

 

When I pointed this out to him, he agreed. He knows he was wrong and selfish. He doesn't like the idea that this was a lie by omission but agrees that it was. He is contrite and beats himself up about his stupid decisions.

 

I'm trying to find the floor.

 

We travel in silence for days and while at relatives he tells me there is another woman he had not told me about. A new sales person at the head office. "let me guess ... she's hot?" He started hemming and hawing and said agreed yes.

 

So here I am trying to figure this man's motivations again. I looked up "lies of omission" and was enlightened. I saw him and myself there. How in order for liars to get away with their lies, they have to have someone accept the lies. How after lying for so long and having someone believe their lies, they actually believe their own lies (LostBoy does this sound familiar?).

 

I have finally entertained the "D" word and have told him so. I feel a little more cold today than I used to. Just as I felt a colder after DD. I am entertaining what it would be like to live without uncertainty.

 

But I have really said nothing more. I can't stand to educate him again on how he is supposed to act and what honesty means or how he needs IC. He's not a moron and he is not evil. I don't know what it all means.

 

Today he casually mentions that he will be at the company this young attrative woman works and I blow up. Not because tomorrow but because I'm just reminded of how easy it would have been and that he chose to lie instead. And that is what sticks in my claw.

 

No. I don't believe he is having a thing with anybody. That is not my concern. My concern is that he is retreating to old patterns of lying by omission. That this is how it happens. One lie begets another lie. That if he is lying about the small things, he will surely lie about other things.

 

We had another discussion and I was honest with him. I simply can't speak about this rationally and nicely anymore. That I'm not willing to live the rest of my life second guessing. How I believe he has little appreciation for what he is doing to me and his marriage. He never has a good answer or explanation other than to clarify he is not interested in ever cheating again and that these lies of omission were stupidty and selfish but not what I think.

 

Easy for him to say.

 

I love my husband very much. He has made me feel like a queen in all other respects. He has never been disrespectful in any other way. He has never so much as spent a day away from me and the kids. Again, for no other reason than he really is a loving partner who wants to spend all his free time with us.

 

How do I reconcile this wonderful man with the liar? I'm trying not to hand his past like a noose around his neck and focusing on today only.

 

LostBoy I am particularly interested in your opinion. Flame throwers you are welcome. Sometimes there is truth in the flames.

 

I am trying to get him to post on this forum. I think he needs advice as well. He has never wanted to tell anyone about his past though some family members found out. He is too ashamed to talk about it. Not even his close friends. And this bothers me. I think he needs to talk about it and get advice from others, not me. Heck I can't really help him anymore. I don't want to.

 

I'm tired of it all and I'm also chronically ill right now. The stress is not helping.

 

 

LostBoy I am particularly interested in your opinion. Flame throwers you are welcome. Sometimes there is truth in the flames.

[silktricks]

In all honesty, I'm posting mostly because I feel it would be rude not to. Your husband has some growing up to do, it sounds like you are all grown. The fact that he can't seem to get the idea that you cannot, will not ever again accept him lying to you in anyway, seems to me that he's missing a badly needed link with reality.

 

Since you love him and don't want to divorce, can you make him getting IC a requirement? Or does that conflict with your basic nature?

 

You seem a very easy going tolerant person who has been taken over the edge.

[whichwayisup]

I hope your H does come here, because you're right, he needs help. He needs to understand that his problem (that's what it is!) is affecting you so much, making you NUTS!

 

He definately needs counselling, and needs to try his best to understand why he feels the need for all that extra attention, omits the truth (even if it does hurt or piss you off, it's better that he comes clean 100% and is honest, atleast you'd be more trusting of him than you are now), lies etc...

 

I hope things get better. And, I hope you feel better too, having an illness with all that is going on in your life must be making all worse...

 

Keep posting, venting your thoughts.

[East of Jupiter]

In all honesty, I'm posting mostly because I feel it would be rude not to. Your husband has some growing up to do, it sounds like you are all grown. The fact that he can't seem to get the idea that you cannot, will not ever again accept him lying to you in anyway, seems to me that he's missing a badly needed link with reality.

 

Since you love him and don't want to divorce, can you make him getting IC a requirement? Or does that conflict with your basic nature?

 

You seem a very easy going tolerant person who has been taken over the edge.

 

 

I have told him he needs IC. But I am no longer setting conditions. I told him I am stepping back and waiting to see what he is going to do. If he doesn't go to IC then he will give me the answer I need.

 

He is very, very closed about his feelings. That's a cop out.

 

Thanks for respoding. It may seem obvious but since I have not spoken to anyone other than this board about it, I need feedback. I get nowhere with him. He simply accepts responsibility and promises.

 

Like he did the time before, and the time before that and the one before that.

[whichwayisup]

He is very, very closed about his feelings. That's a cop out.

Yes, it is a cop out. It's a fear of doing all the work required to change, bringing up past stuff (childhood issues/whatever else) that has affected him enough to be the way he is now. CHANGE is hard as heck, and it takes alot of patience, determination and desire to do that. I hope he has it in him, otherwise he's gonna lose you....

 

Do you do therapy for yourself as well? Could help you cope with all this stuff.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

EOJ,

 

The fact that you possibly some of your husbands actions as similar to LB's says alot. I wonder if you have read through his blog. I was ratted out about LS but have respectfully asked my H not to wander in here and have been very pleased to find that he hasn't.

 

You sound like you are in a pretty good place to me. Not questioning, checking up, ect.. You mentioned shame... and you need to know that it's when guys "like this" feel shame, that they tend to act out.

 

You'll have PM's in a few weeks and there is more that I would like to say to you about your situation. I will say this. These guys are poor risks. I can't remember if you have children?

 

No matter what, you will find the floor. Its caught my a$$ a few times now, but I always seem to land on it hard and fast despite how long it takes me to get back up on my feet!

 

Hopefully a few others will chime in, but remember that your situation is a little different than those who just wander off with one other woman. Hopefully LB will come back as I haven't seen him on for a few days. I have a million questions for him. His email address is on his blog to which there is a link on his thread.

 

May I ask if your husband drinks fairly frequently and if that seems to change his actions? I am very sorry for the situation that you find yourself in. You seem to be quite intelligent and fairly assessing your situation.

 

Good luck to you. IWWH

[East of Jupiter]

Yes, it is a cop out. It's a fear of doing all the work required to change, bringing up past stuff (childhood issues/whatever else) that has affected him enough to be the way he is now. CHANGE is hard as heck, and it takes alot of patience, determination and desire to do that. I hope he has it in him, otherwise he's gonna lose you....

 

Do you do therapy for yourself as well? Could help you cope with all this stuff.

 

Yes, I will go to counseling. Even though I feel I've picked at myself as much as any person can. And I'm bitter about me having to go to therapy again. And getting a good therapist is not easy. Each time I go they want to start from the beginning and I've already been there.

 

The last lady just told me to leave him.

[outofdarkness]

I'm having one of those days and I could use advice and support.

 

Some of you know my story. I don't want to restate it here. Husband is non-too sucessful womanizer. Actually he is a good guy who can't seem to figure anything out. Mother Castrating Female and father Emasculated Male.

 

If you met or knew my husband you would like him instantly and would immeidately notice his devotion to his family.

 

He cheated a week after our first physical seperation upon going home for a visit. He cheated again the night before I moved from my home town to live with him in another town. He tried cheating when we first got our computers back in the day -- he just didn't get to go through with it. He cheated during the time we were mourning the loss of a baby several months gestation. Finally, he cheated long-distance having phone and cyber sex. The entire time we have enjoyed a happy marriage and an incredible sex life. Up until DD we had never so much as had a serious argument.

 

I didn't know, though I suspected, about the past until after DD. I went t to counseling. He relunctantly went to counseling but only for handful (if that) visits.

 

It's been many hard years working our way back to a comfortable place but I felt we were getting there.

 

H is not in sales but his job requires him to work with a lot of sales people. He can be found on any given day at a breakfast or lunch or at a hotel for a conference. He also travels out of town about four times a year. Yes, he could have changed his job but it pays well and as far as I'm concerned, he could find a way to cheat with any job and under any circumstances. All I ask is that he be honest about where he is and the women he does work with closely. Closely. I am not interested in dogging his every move and I haven't.

 

I have more pride than brains. I do not call him during work hours. He wishes I would. I don't ask him who was where when. I don't dig or question or anything. Actually I'm not sure that this has been a good thing but that is what my pride allows. He leaves his computer open and I know his passwords (I forget because I don't use it). I pay the bills and have acess to everything. I don't check up on him.

 

Recently I felt hinky about things and I did look at his emails. He knows I did. I saw an exchange that made me uncomfortable but I didn't say anything to him. It could be nothing and there was no need. Instead, I gave him opportunities to tell me about this lady he works with off and on. He never mentioned her. FF to a few months ago and I hear him speaking to someone about this particular lady being in town for something or another. This time, I ask him about her. He gives me the old blank stare. Oh, her she's someone I work with but have little contact with. I told him I had seen the contact and that yes it was nothing but I felt uncomfortable about it. He explained what I saw is what it was and there was nothing else to say. Mind you he was honest and not defensive and I accepted his explanation. He works with a lot of women but mostly men.

 

Three weeks ago he left his work journal open and I saw that that very Monday, this same woman had been in town but he had not mentioned she was a part of the training that went on. I asked him about it and he said he meant to tell me but just got busy. We really didn't get too far in that before he said that there was another lady that he had been working about that he had not told me about. Yes, I had seen her name on the journal on the next page and I think he knew that. I didn't ask about it but he told me. I was not going to ask about the other name on his journal as there are many and I just don't pay attention to it all.

 

Well this other one he didn't tell me about is someone not OUT OF TOWN but someone here and someone that he does work closely with. And when I mean closely, I mean she is in on meetings, training, lunches ...whatever is going on with the account. This particular woman had replaced another lady he HAD told me about. He had even given me an update on this other women as she had health problems but he had not told me she had been replaced. Mind you he likes to describe the women he works with even though I tell him it makes no difference to me. He thinks if he tells me they are old or overweight or ugly that I will feel better. As the women he chose in the past were not exactly beauty queens he well knows I don't buy any of it but I let him describe away.

 

The reason he didn't tell me about this new lady whom he has been working with for the past several months (six?)? This is so insulting and degrading that I have a hard time even repeating it here.

 

"she is attractive and young and I the type you would have a problem with." "I wanted to avoid a conflict." "I wanted to avoid an emotional disscussion like the one we are having now."

 

I find out that he has been going to lunch almost weekly for the past several months with this woman there. Not alone, they always meet in groups. However, he had made a point of telling me who all is with him at these meetings but he did not tell me that this new womean had been attending all along. I am his sounding board for work and know as much about the business as he does. So I know all the players and the issues and often give him advise and help him draft letters and reports.

 

Now, I have NEVER had a problem with any of the women he works with and he has told me about the slutty ones and the one in particular known for exposing her implants and inviting others to feel them. He has also told me in the past when there are women involved in his function. Or so I thought. He volunteers this information, as I said, I don't question anymore.

 

When I pointed this out to him, he agreed. He knows he was wrong and selfish. He doesn't like the idea that this was a lie by omission but agrees that it was. He is contrite and beats himself up about his stupid decisions.

 

I'm trying to find the floor.

 

We travel in silence for days and while at relatives he tells me there is another woman he had not told me about. A new sales person at the head office. "let me guess ... she's hot?" He started hemming and hawing and said agreed yes.

 

So here I am trying to figure this man's motivations again. I looked up "lies of omission" and was enlightened. I saw him and myself there. How in order for liars to get away with their lies, they have to have someone accept the lies. How after lying for so long and having someone believe their lies, they actually believe their own lies (LostBoy does this sound familiar?).

 

I have finally entertained the "D" word and have told him so. I feel a little more cold today than I used to. Just as I felt a colder after DD. I am entertaining what it would be like to live without uncertainty.

 

But I have really said nothing more. I can't stand to educate him again on how he is supposed to act and what honesty means or how he needs IC. He's not a moron and he is not evil. I don't know what it all means.

 

Today he casually mentions that he will be at the company this young attrative woman works and I blow up. Not because tomorrow but because I'm just reminded of how easy it would have been and that he chose to lie instead. And that is what sticks in my claw.

 

No. I don't believe he is having a thing with anybody. That is not my concern. My concern is that he is retreating to old patterns of lying by omission. That this is how it happens. One lie begets another lie. That if he is lying about the small things, he will surely lie about other things.

 

We had another discussion and I was honest with him. I simply can't speak about this rationally and nicely anymore. That I'm not willing to live the rest of my life second guessing. How I believe he has little appreciation for what he is doing to me and his marriage. He never has a good answer or explanation other than to clarify he is not interested in ever cheating again and that these lies of omission were stupidty and selfish but not what I think.

 

Easy for him to say.

 

I love my husband very much. He has made me feel like a queen in all other respects. He has never been disrespectful in any other way. He has never so much as spent a day away from me and the kids. Again, for no other reason than he really is a loving partner who wants to spend all his free time with us.

 

How do I reconcile this wonderful man with the liar? I'm trying not to hand his past like a noose around his neck and focusing on today only.

 

LostBoy I am particularly interested in your opinion. Flame throwers you are welcome. Sometimes there is truth in the flames.

 

I am trying to get him to post on this forum. I think he needs advice as well. He has never wanted to tell anyone about his past though some family members found out. He is too ashamed to talk about it. Not even his close friends. And this bothers me. I think he needs to talk about it and get advice from others, not me. Heck I can't really help him anymore. I don't want to.

 

I'm tired of it all and I'm also chronically ill right now. The stress is not helping.

 

 

LostBoy I am particularly interested in your opinion. Flame throwers you are welcome. Sometimes there is truth in the flames.

Well...it sounds to me like he just gets off on telling you about these women....Some MM don't actually cheat, they just get some sort of sadistic rise out of seeing your reaction they talk about the OW's...I see from your post that he HAS actually cheated before, so he could be now, but i have a gut feeling that he just has an inflated ego and one of the ways he has of keeping it that way is for YOU to know details of his contact w/ every OW he even speaks to...Don't be a part of this sick game IMHO....I don't have any specific advice for you b/c I myself am pretty guilty of spying, listening to lies, etc., but you sound strong and mabey ready to make a move to better yourself...I'd to something to jolt him into place. ood

[Trialbyfire]

I couldn't stay with my cheating ex-H. It was beyond my ability to cope with always wondering.

 

You have a good, common sense approach to this. All I can say is that I wish you luck because there's something inherently missing within a cheater.

[East of Jupiter]

EOJ,

 

The fact that you possibly some of your husbands actions as similar to LB's says alot. I wonder if you have read through his blog. I was ratted out about LS but have respectfully asked my H not to wander in here and have been very pleased to find that he hasn't. </quote]

 

Originally, I thought my H had a sexual addition but on further research, I don't think that is his problem. I think it boils down to growing up in a home where the only emotion expressed was anger - no abuse just no outward affection. His "safe" emotion is sex. Whatever or whenever something goes wrong, he turns to sex to feel better. I have been his "safe" place for 25 years now and I know this is true.

 

 

You'll have PM's in a few weeks and there is more that I would like to say to you about your situation. I will say this. These guys are poor risks. I can't remember if you have children?

 

I'm sorry my brain is fried. What is PM?

 

Yes, we have four wonderful and I might add happy children. They have grown up watching mom and dad very affectionate and good to each other.

 

I wanted a man unlike my father. I got it half right. My father was absent from the home.

 

No matter what, you will find the floor. Its caught my a$$ a few times now, but I always seem to land on it hard and fast despite how long it takes me to get back up on my feet!

 

I did check out LB's board. It was hard to read and at the same time I couldn't tear myself away. He is being so nakedly honest that I have to admire that.

 

My husband does not drink and doesn't smoke. I know it sounds insane but he really is this great guy!

 

Here is my assessment: He loves his mother but hates that he does. So whenever he feels that a woman has his love, he sabotages the relationship because he doesn't like the feeling of being controlled by his love. I don't think he likes women at all (womanizer trait). That doesn't mean he doesn't like me or love me. And he is a caring person incapable of being rude or nasty to anyone. If anything he is very passive agressive (another trait).

 

To be honest, not many people like his mom.

[East of Jupiter]

EOJ,

 

The fact that you possibly some of your husbands actions as similar to LB's says alot. I wonder if you have read through his blog. I was ratted out about LS but have respectfully asked my H not to wander in here and have been very pleased to find that he hasn't.

 

You sound like you are in a pretty good place to me. Not questioning, checking up, ect.. You mentioned shame... and you need to know that it's when guys "like this" feel shame, that they tend to act out.

 

You'll have PM's in a few weeks and there is more that I would like to say to you about your situation. I will say this. These guys are poor risks. I can't remember if you have children?

 

No matter what, you will find the floor. Its caught my a$$ a few times now, but I always seem to land on it hard and fast despite how long it takes me to get back up on my feet!

 

Hopefully a few others will chime in, but remember that your situation is a little different than those who just wander off with one other woman. Hopefully LB will come back as I haven't seen him on for a few days. I have a million questions for him. His email address is on his blog to which there is a link on his thread.

 

May I ask if your husband drinks fairly frequently and if that seems to change his actions? I am very sorry for the situation that you find yourself in. You seem to be quite intelligent and fairly assessing your situation.

 

Good luck to you. IWWH

 

I couldn't stay with my cheating ex-H. It was beyond my ability to cope with always wondering.

 

You have a good, common sense approach to this. All I can say is that I wish you luck because there's something inherently missing within a cheater.

 

I should not have stayed either. But I was conditioned for this role I tell ya. I just didn't know it until I worked through it all.

 

You know his cheating was never an EA or a PA it was sexual only and he never did meet with anyone in person. As he says, I should give him credit for that. That he was working on things all along and he could have at any moment cheated if he really wanted to.

 

And to be fair, he confessed to his LD sexual affair and his entire past. He himself broke off the contact with his last OW (she was not a stranger). It was the perfect situation for him as she didn't ask for anything in return and he was honest with the sex part. Once he got what he wanted, he realized he didn't want it.

 

I have to try and be fair all the time so that I don't get lost in my own feelings and thoughts.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

PM's are private messages, you have the privilage after being here a month and having over 50 posts I believe. They can also be attained by becoming a supporting member for a VERY small pittance. Kinda like LS email. I just typed a really long post which got lost on this Darn laptop I'm trying to type on (kinda like dropping the salmon dip I was bringing to the pity party)!

 

I truly don't think that coming to LS will help your H a bit. He truly needs the rug pulled out from under him to "desire" to get to the bottom of his problems. Guys like this often have some major childhood issues. Which all tie into the guilt, shame, madonna whore, thingy.

 

Atleast it seems that you are not dealing with a comorbidity. That's actually a great thing. Try contacing LB. I see that he was on very early this am I believe.

[East of Jupiter]

Well...it sounds to me like he just gets off on telling you about these women....Some MM don't actually cheat, they just get some sort of sadistic rise out of seeing your reaction they talk about the OW's...I see from your post that he HAS actually cheated before, so he could be now, but i have a gut feeling that he just has an inflated ego and one of the ways he has of keeping it that way is for YOU to know details of his contact w/ every OW he even speaks to...Don't be a part of this sick game IMHO....I don't have any specific advice for you b/c I myself am pretty guilty of spying, listening to lies, etc., but you sound strong and mabey ready to make a move to better yourself...I'd to something to jolt him into place. ood

 

No he doesn't enjoy telling me trust me. If he could smash his head in two when caught, he would. I think he enjoys the secret and power he gets from getting over on me (womanizer traits) but he is repulsed by his own behavior. He has a lot of crap going on in him he is unwilling to face.

 

He actually has low self-esteem and is insecure. He thinks I'm too good for him. At this point, I am not going to argue that one!

[East of Jupiter]

PM's are private messages, you have the privilage after being here a month and having over 50 posts I believe. They can also be attained by becoming a supporting member for a VERY small pittance. Kinda like LS email. I just typed a really long post which got lost on this Darn laptop I'm trying to type on (kinda like dropping the salmon dip I was bringing to the pity party)!

 

I truly don't think that coming to LS will help your H a bit. He truly needs the rug pulled out from under him to "desire" to get to the bottom of his problems. Guys like this often have some major childhood issues. Which all tie into the guilt, shame, madonna whore, thingy.

 

Atleast it seems that you are not dealing with a comorbidity. That's actually a great thing. Try contacing LB. I see that he was on very early this am I believe.

 

Thanks again. I think you may be right. He needs therapy not a board. And I love salmon dip! Darn!

 

See my other post for childhood issues.

 

And shoot maybe we have uncovered the problem. I'm no Madonna.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

And shoot maybe we have uncovered the problem. I'm no Madonna.

 

Well now there ya go! Dress up in robes tonight and try your hand a being virginal!:D:D Just kidding. This is his problem/confusion but it is your life. I very much respect your patience and attempt at understanding. THAT is what marriage and commitment are all about, but there are those here who will have you believe that its simply about a moment and a feeling of excitement.

[East of Jupiter]

I hope your H does come here, because you're right, he needs help. He needs to understand that his problem (that's what it is!) is affecting you so much, making you NUTS!

 

He definately needs counselling, and needs to try his best to understand why he feels the need for all that extra attention, omits the truth (even if it does hurt or piss you off, it's better that he comes clean 100% and is honest, atleast you'd be more trusting of him than you are now), lies etc...

 

I hope things get better. And, I hope you feel better too, having an illness with all that is going on in your life must be making all worse...

 

Keep posting, venting your thoughts.

 

 

Thank you everyone. I think the "NUTS" part hit home. That is precisely it. He is driving me crazy.

 

He think he has it all figured out. Can you believe this? I know I've been foolish in the past. Maybe that's why he thinks I'm going to accept this. He says he doesn't expect me too. Shoot, he just gives me no answers!

[East of Jupiter]

And shoot maybe we have uncovered the problem. I'm no Madonna.

 

Well now there ya go! Dress up in robes tonight and try your hand a being virginal!:D:D Just kidding. This is his problem/confusion but it is your life. I very much respect your patience and attempt at understanding. THAT is what marriage and commitment are all about, but there are those here who will have you believe that its simply about a moment and a feeling of excitement.

 

 

I won't argue with them because it just may be that for some. It might explain the divorce rate. Sex is not a destination, it's only a short ride.

 

My dad taught me what love wasn't. My mother taught me what love IS.

[Lynna]

This guy needs long-term therapy! These are things you said about him - he loves his mother but hates that he does, he feels controled by love, he sabotages relationships, he is passive agressive, he has low self-esteem, he's a liar, he won't talk about his feelings, sex is the only safe "emotion" for him, when he gets what he wants he realizes he does not want it (so it seems he does not know WHAT he wants). With all of these issues, the ONLY way that you can help him is through tough love. You have to set a boundary with him. Tell him that you are fed up and that you are not going to enable him anymore. Tell him that by enabling him you are hurting him and that you don't want to do that because you love him. So lay it on the line, either he starts therapy right away (with a therapist who is experienced in mental, sexual, and family issues) or you want a separation with a divorce pending. If you just allow things to keep going he has no motivation to change, there are no consequences for his actions. He is a naughty child who had his hand slapped but can otherwise do whatever he wants. He needs serious repercussions to get the motivation to change. I know it is hard, it took some really rough times until I figured that out myself. But sometimes tough love is all that will work. Best wishes to you and good luck!

[East of Jupiter]

This guy needs long-term therapy! These are things you said about him - he loves his mother but hates that he does, he feels controlled by love, he sabotages relationships, he is passive aggressive, he has low self-esteem, he's a liar, he won't talk about his feelings, sex is the only safe "emotion" for him, when he gets what he wants he realizes he does not want it (so it seems he does not know WHAT he wants). With all of these issues, the ONLY way that you can help him is through tough love. You have to set a boundary with him. Tell him that you are fed up and that you are not going to enable him anymore. Tell him that by enabling him you are hurting him and that you don't want to do that because you love him. So lay it on the line, either he starts therapy right away (with a therapist who is experienced in mental, sexual, and family issues) or you want a separation with a divorce pending. If you just allow things to keep going he has no motivation to change, there are no consequences for his actions. He is a naughty child who had his hand slapped but can otherwise do whatever he wants. He needs serious repercussions to get the motivation to change. I know it is hard, it took some really rough times until I figured that out myself. But sometimes tough love is all that will work. Best wishes to you and good luck!

 

You are absolutely correct lynna. And that is precisely where I am at. It is no that I am smarter or realized something, it is that I simply can't accept anymore.

 

It is very confusing when you are dealing with a person who is all other respects is so good to you and yours. Even now I question if I'm making a bigger deal out of things than I should. After all, what exactly did he do that I am for the first time seriously talking divorce?

 

He violated my trust again.

 

I simply can't go on with this marriage as is. He thinks he can do what it takes all on his own. Yes, its very simply what he has to do but he has proven over and over again, he can't. I honestly believe he doesn't see things as clearly.

 

His is honest about himself and his mistakes and his motivations which he insists are not nefarious. He misses the point. It doesn't matter why he lied, it only matter that he lied.

 

I know by the look in his eyes to the slant of his head that he feels I have nothing to worry about. He misses the point.

 

He sulked last night and didn't speak to me or the kids. He stayed in the living room after the kids went to bed. He finally came to bed late after I had done so myself. This is very rare for him.

 

I'm glad. Maybe he is thinking of the seriousness of the situation. I verbalized many things last night. I was brutally honest. I may have to stay for my kids (doubt it if he acts out but so long as he is decent) but once they are done, I'm out. I told him what I all of you, I can for once imagine I may be happier without him -- without the burden of doubt. I expressed to him that he seems to not get what this latest betrayal (yes, lying feels that way no matter the lie) had done to me and to his marriage.

 

And yes Lynna. I told him the same ... perhaps the fact I stayed in the past makes him think I never will. This is it for him.

 

He left this morning before I got up. He gets over things quickly but I don't. I am over analytical to a fault and can't stand not understanding.

 

As for his love and mother -- I can only say that I am an exception in his life. That he does not hold back on his love for me and the kids. That he genuinely and desperately wants to make me and the kids happy. (Again, echoes of LostBoy)

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you all. I've stuffed all of this for weeks and that doesn't help. I've been ill and now I can feel depression setting in.

 

No worries, I'm very tuned (can cause depression eh!) in and I always get up off the floor <wink IWWH>.

[East of Jupiter]

He's not speaking to me!

 

He came home said hi and went to work at the kitchen table. He has not said a word to me and not much to the kids.

 

I forget who said it but I have no idea why I never looked at it that way ... HE IS IMMATURE!

 

He is faced with losing his marriage and his response is to ignore me? Not that I blame him at this point there is nothing more he could say to me since he has exhausted his excuses and promises. And for once, I'm not accepting any of it. Usually we may stay quiet for a few hours but don't ever stop talking or touching and things go back to normal.

 

What do I want? I want him to look me in the eye and tell me he is going to counseling as soon as possible. I want him to take responsibility and acknowledge that his lies are going to cost him his marriage.

 

I'm not even worried about his silence. That says so much about where I am. I really don't care at this point if he goes off and cheats or if he tells me he wants out. I'm numb to all of that by now.

 

This, is a first for me. What do I feel? A huge relief.

[JamesM]

Okay, as a guy I have some opinions...whether they help or not.

 

Guys (as I have done or heard/seen done) tend to "forget" to tell their wives something such as about beautiful women for a few reasons...

 

1. He wants to avoid conflict. This seems to be a real possibility.

 

2. He wants to avoid having to explain his relationship with her.

 

3. He wants to keep quiet about her, because hey, a guy never knows...she may one day be a possible OW. And yes, that is also a real possibility.

 

4. He genuinely forgets sometimes, and when he remembers, he is afraid that because he is late in telling, it will be a big deal.

 

I am one who thinks that if he had not cheated in the past, his lies of omission would NOT be a big deal. But since he has shown that he cannot be trusted, you are suspicious of his "forgetting" something so important as the women who he sees.

 

And I would say that if he cares about his marriage, he had better figure out that to rebuild trust, he will need to tell you about every woman whom he will come in contact with. The question in my mind is...does he really care about his marriage anymore?

[Ladyjane14]

I dunno. If you look at it from your husband's POV and walk a mile in his shoes, he might be feeling like he's never going to get out of the doghouse with you.

 

He f*cked up the trust in your relationship. If he'd never cheated on you, you wouldn't have cause to doubt him now. Assuming you're going to stay together though, there has to be a point at which the slate is cleaned, a point at which the trust can be considered to be successfully 're-built'... otherwise he's never truly equal in the relationship.

 

Don't get me wrong... I think every BS has an absolute right to dump a cheating partner if that's what they want to do. But should they decide to forgive their partner instead, there needs to be some kind of plan for getting to a COMPLETE state of forgiveness.

 

Think about it this way, if he'd never, I mean NEVER, given you the slightest cause for doubt, would your reaction be the same in this particular situation as it was? And if your answer is 'no'... then he's likely to be feeling like he doesn't have your complete forgiveness, in which case he's probably stumped, frustrated, and angry... clueless as to how he might finally get it.

[Ladyjane14]

Caught your use of the term... "Affairyland" earlier today. Nearly snorted my cold-drink on the screen.

 

Really... submit that one to Webster's. It's perfect.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

This, is a first for me. What do I feel? A huge relief.

 

The only problem is: "huge relief" is a temporary destination. Especially when you stay. Appathy rules most of my life but all of a sudden Mr. Rage returns and I have this uncontrollable desire to poke someones eyes out! Those days when you find yourself thinking, that's fine but God help you if you fall asleep, seem to creep back 'round, no matter how much you think you're committed to Mr. ICGAF! Point is, its truly cyclical. And that is not a good cycle!

[Tomcat33]

.I have more pride than brains. I do not call him during work hours. He wishes I would. I don't ask him who was where when. I don't dig or question or anything. Actually I'm not sure that this has been a good thing but that is what my pride allows.

.

 

You might not like what I am going to say but I am just trying to offer a different point of view. I can't say he is or he is not planning to cheat but what you said above caught my attention. Could it be that he is really not planning anything sneaky and he just omits these things because he knows it will make you feel jealous and really is avoiding conflict?

 

People who are overly proud hide a much deeper emotion which is often fear or insecurity. When you are overly proud and hold back from reacting in ways that he might deem as insecure what you are doing is just supressing your insecurities and the insecurities manifest themselves in sometimes less rational ways which he may be very good at reading. Men are very good at that.

 

Sometimes it's better to just come right out and talk about your insecurities as vulnerable as that may make you and nip the problem in the bud. It's not easy but if you get into the habit of it you will feel more at ease with your emotions and it might even prompt him to offer information spontaneously because he won't feel threatened that you will overreact.

 

Maybe you have trained yourself into not calling him at work to make him feel like you are not controlling or trying to check up on him, but calling him is something he might see as natural and you might be overanalizing that action and thinking "if I call he might think I am checking up on him"So it takes the spontenaety out of your dynamic.

 

I know habits are hard to break once we start them, so I can symapthise with that. Wa are how we are.