Author tinktronik Posted July 30, 2007 Author Posted July 30, 2007 I'm guessing the meth may have had a role in that. Did I miss something Tan?
lindya Posted July 30, 2007 Posted July 30, 2007 I fighting started in the back seat . I warned them . I pulled over . Started back . Fighting , including yelling crying and hitting across the car insued . I stopped pulled all of the kids out of the car . Did time-outs. started back . The fighting got so out of control that they were throwing things in my line of vision and making driving a danger even climbing out of seat belts. I think driving a car full of kids is one of the closest things to hell on earth. It's bad enough having to concentrate on the road and watch out for other drivers doing stupid things - without having to try to deal with an unruly mob in your own vehicle. I don't really see what else you can do, in that particular situation, other than what you did. Gentleness be damned. In that situation, I'd probably be hauling out duct tape and straitjackets.
Author tinktronik Posted July 30, 2007 Author Posted July 30, 2007 I think driving a car full of kids is one of the closest things to hell on earth. It's bad enough having to concentrate on the road and watch out for other drivers doing stupid things - without having to try to deal with an unruly mob in your own vehicle. I don't really see what else you can do, in that particular situation, other than what you did. Gentleness be damned. In that situation, I'd probably be hauling out duct tape and straitjackets. Yep. Hell on earth . Its true and is in fact in that situation I dont understand why it is illegal to straight jacket or kennel children.
nittygritty Posted August 3, 2007 Posted August 3, 2007 I think spanking is going to make the boys more aggressive. You will see more fighting and hitting because thats how you will be teaching them to problem solve. Involving them in sports was a good suggestion. I don't think putting the older one in charge would be fair, if your having difficulty making them get along then how is their older sibling going to be able to resolve it? Hang in there, summer break is almost over!
IfWishesWereHorses Posted August 3, 2007 Posted August 3, 2007 I'm not a big proponant of spanking. Tink, it seems that you have is somewhat of a pack mentality going on with these boys. Its easier to misbehave in a group, and its three of them to one of you. They learn to manipulate as a group. I would try two things. One is a serious sports program. One where the coaches are determined and have complete controll over the group. They learn to have a healthy respect for authority as well as get their exercise. The other honestly is diet. We had some issues when my son was a toddler, they actually wanted to medicate before he started school because he was so impulsive he was a danger to himself. I was NOT starting it before he needed it to learn. A friend of mine who I describe a granola came over one day when I was in tears, brought me a sugar buster's for kids and proceeded to throw away everything in my kitchen that didn't fit. I tried it, actually had to avoid parties and ask the school to send him out of the room (give him a job/privillage) when someone brought treats. His behavior improved 50% as did sleeping, as well as handling meltdowns. DIET and EXERCISE, can have an incredible affect on all of us. One other thing is to know ahead of time when there will be a problem and try to distract them to avoid it. So, if they had been told that they could split all of the change that they could find in the house but it had to be counted and rolled by the time you got to the bank then possibly it would have been a motivated distraction. Another thing that I have found that has a BIG impact is a "surprise" punishment. So I don't even say that you are in trouble for A, if it is a broken rule I might keep it to myself until that night or the next morning then say as calmly as I can, OH, you won't be going swimming with Joey tomorrow, because you broke the rule this morning. They thought they had gotten away with it, then boom, she was paying attention! I can't imagine having 3 boys that close! They are always more difficult to handle in groups as they tend to feed off of each other. Its why I laugh at cell phone in car laws, I understand the danger but HECK, then they need a law that says no kids in cars. Tink you could always invest in a delivery van with a wall between you and the back! I have long term been an advocate for not spanking children. This year I have changed my mind completely. As most of you know , I have 3 boys withing a year of each others age ;and things have become very clear that time out and consistency and being polite and taking toys away no longer are working. So, I think I am actually going to give spanking a try . I realize that listening to mom is easily ignored and that if I do not do something to get the boys to obey me they are finnally at an age where they will physically damage eachothers person. So , I guess my ? would be from those of you that are parenting children and do spank, what is the appropriate way to spank ?
Author tinktronik Posted August 3, 2007 Author Posted August 3, 2007 I'm not a big proponant of spanking. Tink, it seems that you have is somewhat of a pack mentality going on with these boys. Its easier to misbehave in a group, and its three of them to one of you. They learn to manipulate as a group. I would try two things. One is a serious sports program. One where the coaches are determined and have complete controll over the group. They learn to have a healthy respect for authority as well as get their exercise. I actually have them in martial arts with an instructor and also baseball . So they have two serious instructors and do well as a part of a larger group. Unfortunatly I do not have 20 kids of my own and honestly I cannot manage to instruct them every min myself but do much of the time when interacting.They do infact manipulate as a group , and have had it down as a distract and then misbehave technique. The other honestly is diet. We had some issues when my son was a toddler, they actually wanted to medicate before he started school because he was so impulsive he was a danger to himself. I was NOT starting it before he needed it to learn.The sugar busters diet is great . I actually have my oldest on a no sugar no bread , as it was instructed by a friend , and he's been on it for 3 months or so now. I tend to cook lean and both Dad's household and mine are almost sugar free (we learned that lesson a long time ago. Tink you could always invest in a delivery van with a wall between you and the back :lmao: I actually saw a family one time at home Depot that had built board walls between their 3 kids into the back seat. I considered it but don't know if there are saftey ramifications.:lmao:
Moose Posted August 3, 2007 Posted August 3, 2007 I personally believe the key is to make it known to the child why he or she is being punished before it's dealt out, then discuss what needs to be done to avoid future offenses. If they're bigger than you, (and i have a couple), don't let em' know it's comin' then beat the crap out of em'.......just joking people......
IfWishesWereHorses Posted August 3, 2007 Posted August 3, 2007 May I ask how the martial arts thing is working? We are considering it for the fall. Mostly for exercise and coordination. Also to add an individual sport to the "team" sports.
jj2007 Posted August 3, 2007 Posted August 3, 2007 I have long term been an advocate for not spanking children. This year I have changed my mind completely. As most of you know , I have 3 boys withing a year of each others age ;and things have become very clear that time out and consistency and being polite and taking toys away no longer are working. So, I think I am actually going to give spanking a try . I realize that listening to mom is easily ignored and that if I do not do something to get the boys to obey me they are finnally at an age where they will physically damage eachothers person. So , I guess my ? would be from those of you that are parenting children and do spank, what is the appropriate way to spank ? I have two boys ages 12 and 13. I will tell you that if you do not get a hold on it now it will get worse as they get older. I did spanking when they were younger (until they were 10 and 11) because that was more effective than taking away toys, grounding, etc. Now I ground them and make them do extra chores etc. I do know what you mean about the constant fighting! It drove me crazy! Every time I turned around one had the other in a headlock or worse! I got so sick of saying, "stop hitting/punching/kicking etc. your brother!" Boys are physical anyway. Especially when they are younger that's how they seem to resolve things. With my boys now, they no longer result to physically resolving their issues now they are smart elecks to each other. Do your boys do things individually? Like sports and such? Do they have sufficient time apart while they are still burning energy? Sometimes it is a matter of spending TOO MUCH time together and with mine I knew they needed time apart because they get on each other's nerves. My rules for spanking are: Two warnings- third time spanking. Explain to them exactly why they are being spanked. NEVER SPANK WHEN ANGRY! I would also sometimes tell them I was going to count to 3 ( like say Brother 1 has Brother 2 in a headlock but hasn't inflicted pain yet) and if B1 hadn't let go by the time I got to 3 B1 got a spanking. Hope this helps! (my mother had me trained with a flyswatter!)
Author tinktronik Posted August 3, 2007 Author Posted August 3, 2007 May I ask how the martial arts thing is working? We are considering it for the fall. Mostly for exercise and coordination. Also to add an individual sport to the "team" sports. Two of my three did karate, then akido, and did not respond all that well but they have been with a ju jitsu instructor for a while now and have gotten very active in it asnd seem to enjoy it very much. The teacher is more hands on and even my youngest is doing lessons now . My oldest has had a combined 4 years in a martial art and his coordination has however not improved anywhere outside of the arena of actual mat time. The exerszing is working out I have taken classes as well and it it a lot of work. I personally want to take kickboxing .
Author tinktronik Posted August 3, 2007 Author Posted August 3, 2007 I have two boys ages 12 and 13. I will tell you that if you do not get a hold on it now it will get worse as they get older. I did spanking when they were younger (until they were 10 and 11) because that was more effective than taking away toys, grounding, etc. Now I ground them and make them do extra chores etc. I do know what you mean about the constant fighting! It drove me crazy! Every time I turned around one had the other in a headlock or worse! I got so sick of saying, "stop hitting/punching/kicking etc. your brother!" Boys are physical anyway. Especially when they are younger that's how they seem to resolve things. With my boys now, they no longer result to physically resolving their issues now they are smart elecks to each other. Do your boys do things individually? Like sports and such? Do they have sufficient time apart while they are still burning energy? Sometimes it is a matter of spending TOO MUCH time together and with mine I knew they needed time apart because they get on each other's nerves. My rules for spanking are: Two warnings- third time spanking. Explain to them exactly why they are being spanked. NEVER SPANK WHEN ANGRY! I would also sometimes tell them I was going to count to 3 ( like say Brother 1 has Brother 2 in a headlock but hasn't inflicted pain yet) and if B1 hadn't let go by the time I got to 3 B1 got a spanking. Hope this helps! (my mother had me trained with a flyswatter!) The above bolded is an amazing question that had not occured to me before but it seems so common sense . Durring the summer they do not spend any time apart. My youngest and middle are even in the same class at school . The oldest really does bully the younger two . I get so mad at him . I have all my life seen adults that bully people you know that guy thats just "such a jerk". Well this is my oldest son . I hate to say it and I have tried everything to unlearn him from this behavior , but to no avail, it is just his personality. The younger two get really frustrated by this and moody . A lot of what they do is just cutting-up or kid shenanigans . But there are days when after a week or so of their brothers bullying and cohersing one of my younger will just melt-down and war is called .Those are the harder days . I have tried to bring in outside children to be friends with them ,( my two youngest have their own groups of friends at school)( my oldest does not because no one wants o be his friend after they play for a few days) , but they reject outside friends mostly because they have their own world of friends right at their fingertips . I suppose I could break up their sports activities to different times but then Im not sure what I would do with the others while class is on.
Quinch Posted August 3, 2007 Posted August 3, 2007 When I was a kid my mum would grab my wrist and give me a sharp slap on the back of my hand. I can't say I resent her for it (many other things but not that) but I don't like to see children being smacked on the back of their legs in public - that just seems more humiliating than anything.
amerikajin Posted August 3, 2007 Posted August 3, 2007 I'm not a parent, but it seems to me that your classic swat on the bottom isn't really all that bad. There are definitely more effective ways to teach your children a lesson, but I don't think spanking demoralizes children or ruins their psyche later in life. It just reinforces the fact that the parent is the one in charge. I would do it as a last resort and preferably not at all, but I can't say I'd never do it.
nittygritty Posted August 3, 2007 Posted August 3, 2007 Is there anyway to get them in a sport that burns more energy like soccer or flag football? The local YMCA or Community Center may offer several different programs. They also may enjoy Boy Scouts. I think separate interests and individual time may really help but I understand the difficulty of trying to figure out what to do with the others when one is at practice and they all have different times to go. I only let my two have one sport going at a time. It gets too hectic for all, particularly Mom .
Author tinktronik Posted August 3, 2007 Author Posted August 3, 2007 Is there anyway to get them in a sport that burns more energy like soccer or flag football? The local YMCA or Community Center may offer several different programs. They also may enjoy Boy Scouts. I think separate interests and individual time may really help but I understand the difficulty of trying to figure out what to do with the others when one is at practice and they all have different times to go. I only let my two have one sport going at a time. It gets too hectic for all, particularly Mom . My oldest does soccer durring soccer season , but I have not tried football yet (the kids just never showed an interest) . The Y here is who they do baseball and soccer through . We also do swimming durring the summer at the Y and its a great place for mom to work out . It is difficult to figure them all out , but after hearing your idea of seperating them out . The idea that my two younger are stressed by the older and maybe the older stressed by the two younger makes me see it as a very feasible suggestion . Lord knows I need a break from all three of them at once . I keep telling my H that work does not count as a break from the kids it counts as work. He's taken the summer off at work to be home with them and so when I get home hes ready to fly from the frnt door to the nearest quiet spot he can find .
love necessity Posted August 10, 2007 Posted August 10, 2007 I have long term been an advocate for not spanking children. This year I have changed my mind completely. As most of you know , I have 3 boys withing a year of each others age ;and things have become very clear that time out and consistency and being polite and taking toys away no longer are working. So, I think I am actually going to give spanking a try . I realize that listening to mom is easily ignored and that if I do not do something to get the boys to obey me they are finnally at an age where they will physically damage eachothers person. So , I guess my ? would be from those of you that are parenting children and do spank, what is the appropriate way to spank ? Don't do it..How old are your boys?? I think it would only be showing them that violence is ok.. I was physically abused as a child. Look at it this way, would you hit your cat??
Author tinktronik Posted August 10, 2007 Author Posted August 10, 2007 Don't do it..How old are your boys?? I think it would only be showing them that violence is ok.. I was physically abused as a child. Look at it this way, would you hit your cat?? If my cat was physically attacking my other cat or trying to knock her out of a tree yes I would swat her .
2sunny Posted August 10, 2007 Posted August 10, 2007 i had my boys write lines. appropriate for the offense but in the posititive context - like if they lied - they would write i will always tell the truth. they have time to sit there and think about the offense every line they write. start out with 25 lines...and they aren't allowed to do anything else until they are finished. second offense doubles to 50 and so on. if they complain the amount goes up automatically. at the end they have to apologize on paper and admit to how they will change the offense.
Author tinktronik Posted August 10, 2007 Author Posted August 10, 2007 i had my boys write lines. appropriate for the offense but in the posititive context - like if they lied - they would write i will always tell the truth. they have time to sit there and think about the offense every line they write. start out with 25 lines...and they aren't allowed to do anything else until they are finished. second offense doubles to 50 and so on. if they complain the amount goes up automatically. at the end they have to apologize on paper and admit to how they will change the offense. Thats a very good idea also. I have spanked once, and have not needed to again so far . I will try a combination of things but Im going to reserve any spanking for the most serious offenses.
love necessity Posted August 10, 2007 Posted August 10, 2007 Thats a very good idea also. I have spanked once, and have not needed to again so far . I will try a combination of things but Im going to reserve any spanking for the most serious offenses. I would really like to talk about this if you don't mind? What would a serious offense be in your eyes? I would love to DEBATE!! I want to hear you side of spanking!!LOL:)
2sunny Posted August 10, 2007 Posted August 10, 2007 i also would make my boys look me in the eyes when i spoke with them and if i was unsure if they understood me - i would have them repeat back to me what i had just said. like if i said "i want you to stop that right now" they would have to repeat it back. it was like they knew that they couldn't NOT possibly understand. does that even make sense?
Author tinktronik Posted August 10, 2007 Author Posted August 10, 2007 I would really like to talk about this if you don't mind? What would a serious offense be in your eyes? I would love to DEBATE!! I want to hear you side of spanking!!LOL:)A serious offence would be endangering the life of one of your siblings purposly .
Author tinktronik Posted August 10, 2007 Author Posted August 10, 2007 i also would make my boys look me in the eyes when i spoke with them and if i was unsure if they understood me - i would have them repeat back to me what i had just said. like if i said "i want you to stop that right now" they would have to repeat it back. it was like they knew that they couldn't NOT possibly understand. does that even make sense? I do that as well. I have to point at my nose constantly. Its amazing it has not caved in.
2sunny Posted August 10, 2007 Posted August 10, 2007 i used the fair but consistent method. it seems to have worked for me. i think when they get the idea from you of what their boundaries are - things will settle down. in the meantime - be patient... i know it's harder said than done. but it will pay off after they have been with you again after a bit of time passes.
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