The spanking debate.

[tinktronik]

I have long term been an advocate for not spanking children. This year I have changed my mind completely.

As most of you know , I have 3 boys withing a year of each others age ;and things have become very clear that time out and consistency and being polite and taking toys away no longer are working. So, I think I am actually going to give spanking a try . I realize that listening to mom is easily ignored and that if I do not do something to get the boys to obey me they are finnally at an age where they will physically damage eachothers person.

So , I guess my ? would be from those of you that are parenting children and do spank, what is the appropriate way to spank ?

[Star Gazer]

How old are your children?

 

I'd suggest you be very careful about this, and try to find other avenues of discipline. A spanking that doesn't hurt will have no deterrent effect, and one that does will leave a mark, might result in CPS showing up at your door.

 

My mother tried spanking me, but it did no good. She had to find out what my "currency" was, and take THAT away when I was bad. As a teenager, she took away my driving privileges - that sucked a$$. Before that, it was simply being grounded and unable to play/hang out with friends or talk on the phone - that sucked a$$ too. Before that, she took away my Nintendo. Depending on how old I was, these things were my "currency," and it was very, very effective.

[tinktronik]

How old are your children?

 

I'd suggest you be very careful about this, and try to find other avenues of discipline. A spanking that doesn't hurt will have no deterrent effect, and one that does will leave a mark, might result in CPS showing up at your door.

 

My mother tried spanking me, but it did no good. She had to find out what my "currency" was, and take THAT away when I was bad. As a teenager, she took away my driving privileges - that sucked a$$. Before that, it was simply being grounded and unable to play/hang out with friends or talk on the phone - that sucked a$$ too. Before that, she took away my Nintendo. Depending on how old I was, these things were my "currency," and it was very, very effective.

My boys are 5 6 and 8 . I have for years practiced consistant time outs ,groundings, removal of privliages, talking toos and taking away toys . I have just come to the conclusion that it is possible to raise a child without spanking them but not 3 boys.

I actually spoke with several well adjusted adult men that I respect and that grew up in multiple boy household and they all said the same thing , their mom did the spankings they obeyed and respected her and that was all there was to it.

I am honestly just exhausted with my boys running roughshod over me because they know I will not physicall punish them . I am to the point where it is just a matter of time before one of them seriously injures another . I have also watched my boys over a matter of time and what they respond to even in play is a matter of physicallity .

Im just at a loss .I feel as if I have tried every thing else and by the book litterally.

[a4a]

oh no I am having flash back of the wooden spoon debates!

 

If you check the archives there is a doozy of a thread on this.... if it was not deleted.

[tinktronik]

oh no I am having flash back of the wooden spoon debates!

 

If you check the archives there is a doozy of a thread on this.... if it was not deleted.

I recall that thread I believe I was of the stance that you should never spank. I am of the mind now that that was a delusion on my part.

[a4a]

I recall that thread I believe I was of the stance that you should never spank. I am of the mind now that that was a delusion on my part.

 

Well go peek at it.

 

Interesting how peoples pov can change.

 

IMHO spanking is ok as long as it is not abusive.

 

everything in moderation..... and with full control.

[Trialbyfire]

Anty spanking here, in more ways than one. Including immediate family and previous generation, none of us were spanked or needed to be. If you're tough enough with the privilege removal and both parents stand together, there's no need for it. I agree with SG about the car thing. The concept is that your parents own your vehicle and will take it away whenever they want to (teenage years).

 

As for when we were younger, less privileges such as TV, having friends over or going over to friends places, no contact between siblings who are playmates during the punishment period, removal of toys that we treasured, it goes on and on. Also, you can increase their chore list. This works two-fold. They learn the skills for future chore lists. And yes, there were boys as well as girls in my family.

[tinktronik]

Anty spanking here, in more ways than one. Including immediate family and previous generation, none of us were spanked or needed to be. If you're tough enough with the privilege removal and both parents stand together, there's no need for it. I agree with SG about the car thing. The concept is that your parents own your vehicle and will take it away whenever they want to (teenage years).

 

As for when we were younger, less privileges such as TV, having friends over or going over to friends places, no contact between siblings who are playmates during the punishment period, removal of toys that we treasured, it goes on and on. Also, you can increase their chore list. This works two-fold. They learn the skills for future chore lists. And yes, there were boys as well as girls in my family.

I think the ? was more aimed at what to do after those things have failed . I have done all of these things. Thankyou for the suggestion, but I have infact done all of these. Even down to the chore list including washing the outside walls of the house because the house was spottless.

[Trialbyfire]

I think the ? was more aimed at what to do after those things have failed . I have done all of these things. Thankyou for the suggestion, but I have infact done all of these. Even down to the chore list including washing the outside walls of the house because the house was spottless.

Are they in sports? We were all involved heavily in sports to burn off excess energy. I even recall being drilled through the twelve times tables when I was 7 or 8. Both myself and my older brother (tutor) were being punished...

[tanbark813]

I don't have any experience from the parental side of things but from the kids' side, getting smacked with a belt seemed to get the message across.

[tinktronik]

Are they in sports? We were all involved heavily in sports to burn off excess energy. I even recall being drilled through the twelve times tables when I was 7 or 8. Both myself and my older brother (tutor) were being punished...

Yes , they do soccer baseball, martial arts. We also bike around the lake ( 3 miles) 5 days a week in order to burn off energy. We have pull up bars and gym equipment in the back that they play with regularly as well as bike ramps and trick bikes for all of them.I do the appropriate level of hooked on phonics math and reading with them every year in order to cement what they learned and are yet to learn in school the next year. We also play very physical games races, hide and seek things that involve burring off energy , climbing trees ect.

I think it is perhaps more to do withy the closeness in ages than anything else.

[a4a]

Yes , they do soccer baseball, martial arts. We also bike around the lake ( 3 miles) 5 days a week in order to burn off energy. We have pull up bars and gym equipment in the back that they play with regularly as well as bike ramps and trick bikes for all of them.I do the appropriate level of hooked on phonics math and reading with them every year in order to cement what they learned and are yet to learn in school the next year. We also play very physical games races, hide and seek things that involve burring off energy , climbing trees ect.

I think it is perhaps more to do withy the closeness in ages than anything else.

 

Perhaps you have just built up their stamina?

[tinktronik]

I don't have any experience from the parental side of things but from the kids' side, getting smacked with a belt seemed to get the message across.

Did you have brothers?

[tinktronik]

Perhaps you have just built up their stamina?

If we did not have them so busy they would burn the energy instead dismantling the house .

[Trialbyfire]

Yes , they do soccer baseball, martial arts. We also bike around the lake ( 3 miles) 5 days a week in order to burn off energy. We have pull up bars and gym equipment in the back that they play with regularly as well as bike ramps and trick bikes for all of them.I do the appropriate level of hooked on phonics math and reading with them every year in order to cement what they learned and are yet to learn in school the next year. We also play very physical games races, hide and seek things that involve burring off energy , climbing trees ect.

I think it is perhaps more to do withy the closeness in ages than anything else.

It sounds like you're heavily mired in everything they do. Why not slowly make the older one responsible for the younger ones, to an extent? Minor petty dictatorship also seems to work. It's a way to divide and conquer and generate a sense of responsibility.

[tanbark813]

Did you have brothers?

 

One brother.

[tinktronik]

It sounds like you're heavily mired in everything they do. Why not slowly make the older one responsible for the younger ones, to an extent? Minor petty dictatorship also seems to work. It's a way to divide and conquer and generate a sense of responsibility.

This is a great idea. However the oldest one is the one I have the most problems with. We have tried giving him more responsibility but it has turned into .... Yeah he fell , when in fact the oldest pushed him off because he thought it would be funny to do so and even after the younger is injured (not hurt but injured) he continues to consider it funny.

My younger two are very active but not as mean to each other , my oldest is kind of loud and abrasive , its just another type of person I guess, I love him but he's at an age I guess . Not to say that I don't have major problems with my younger boys but the oldest gives me the most problems.

 

I have even handed over some responsibility and then lavished him with praise and attention as well as special time when he has done a good job.

[quankanne]

for spanking to be effective, you cannot overdo it (because they'll expect it, and it becomes something else to tolerate) and you cannot threaten with it (if you don't follow through, then they know it's merely a threat). Basically, spanking – a smack on the bottom with a firm and to-the-point "I said NOT to do that" – works best as a stealth punishment. The first couple of times you spank is a surprise because they don't expect it; if you save it for really, really serious "punishment" they understand that you're not joking. And they start marshalling themselves so as not to get another spanking.

 

it's best if you outline a course of disciplinary action the way a school does: First infraction, you get X; second one, you get Y; third one, Z; fourth one – a good whupping.

 

and no, I'm not promoting abusive hitting, just a good old fashioned smack on the fanny or leg to get their attention. My mom used to chase us around the house with whatever she could grab – wooden spoon, coat hanger, scuffy slipper, but after we got a certain age, it just became a game. However, HER most effective weapon was a sad look and the phrase, "I'm so disappointed," because I was a mama's girl and never wanted to disappoint her.

 

maybe the key to boys is something more physical as punishment: scrub the toilet with a toothbrush, scrub the tub – some menial, hated chore they don't ever want to do and would rather behave to get out of it, you know?

 

or even better, apply a little psychology and get creative: Tell them that you're at the end of your rope, that you're gonna give them a bit of time to come up with a suitable punishment for what they did, and it has to be something that shows you they're sorry/have thought about it/don't want to do it again. Because now the burden is on them to come up with somethi9ng that meets YOUR standard ...

 

:laugh: my sister used to joke about dosing her two boys with Dimetapp whenever they got out of hand (they're 18 mos apart)

[Lostgurl]

So , I guess my ? would be from those of you that are parenting children and do spank, what is the appropriate way to spank ?

 

I spank my children, but not very often.

 

I always use other methods such as time outs (for the younger one) groundings, and taking away privleges first before spanking. I find that you have to switch the punishments up alot. They get tired of the same old threats and they don't adhere as well as they did at the start.

 

When this happens, I threaten to spank them, and if there isn't a memory of spanking fresh in their heads, it tends to go ignored.... That's when the spanking comes in. I really hate doing it. But sometimes there is no other alternative. Then the next time, I just have to threaten to spank them, and they remember the spanking and listen.

 

The only place I spank my kids is on their butts. I wouldn't ever spank them anywhere else.

[tinktronik]

for spanking to be effective, you cannot overdo it (because they'll expect it, and it becomes something else to tolerate) and you cannot threaten with it (if you don't follow through, then they know it's merely a threat). Basically, spanking – a smack on the bottom with a firm and to-the-point "I said NOT to do that" – works best as a stealth punishment. The first couple of times you spank is a surprise because they don't expect it; if you save it for really, really serious "punishment" they understand that you're not joking. And they start marshalling themselves so as not to get another spanking.

 

it's best if you outline a course of disciplinary action the way a school does: First infraction, you get X; second one, you get Y; third one, Z; fourth one – a good whupping.

 

and no, I'm not promoting abusive hitting, just a good old fashioned smack on the fanny or leg to get their attention. My mom used to chase us around the house with whatever she could grab – wooden spoon, coat hanger, scuffy slipper, but after we got a certain age, it just became a game. However, HER most effective weapon was a sad look and the phrase, "I'm so disappointed," because I was a mama's girl and never wanted to disappoint her.

 

maybe the key to boys is something more physical as punishment: scrub the toilet with a toothbrush, scrub the tub – some menial, hated chore they don't ever want to do and would rather behave to get out of it, you know?

 

or even better, apply a little psychology and get creative: Tell them that you're at the end of your rope, that you're gonna give them a bit of time to come up with a suitable punishment for what they did, and it has to be something that shows you they're sorry/have thought about it/don't want to do it again. Because now the burden is on them to come up with somethi9ng that meets YOUR standard ...

 

:laugh: my sister used to joke about dosing her two boys with Dimetapp whenever they got out of hand (they're 18 mos apart)

That I have not tried yet and I will try it .

We have done the physical cleaning , littlerally to where

"C your in trouble for smacking your brother in the nose with a brick , go do the dishes and scrub the floor."

"A your in trouble for smacking your brother in the face with the puppy go wash the porch down with the scrubbie brush, yes the whole porch."

 

They finish, seem miserable and humbled and two min. later it starts up again.

By the end of a day the whole house , litterally , inside and out gleaming . We do this consistently , but the bad behavior continues almost without pause.I have even completely seperated them from each other for a week and not allowed them any contact with each other and that seems to work but is completely impractical and is not implementable for any length of time.

 

I have known people who joke about the Dimetapp , and older parents who have actually done it. Not a good idea IMO.

My boys are 19 months and then 9 months apart.1,2,3.

[lindya]

I think a lot depends on the temperament of the child you're dealing with. Some children are pretty robust and resilient, will accept a spanking as fair discipline, and not take it to heart, whereas for a very sensitive child it might be very distressing and counterproductive. How people view the spanking debate is probably affected by their own particular temperaments and their personal experience of discipline as children.

 

A neighbour of mine spends an inordinate amount of time screaming at, and threatening to smack, her children - and I can't help thinking that the frequency of her ill temper expressing itself has left them clueless as to what the boundaries are. Whether their behaviour, on a scale of 1 to 10, is 4 or 8, the reaction from her is the same. Noisy and out-of-control sounding.

 

I have two child relatives I often look after, and while I know their parents have occasionally smacked their bottoms it's not something I'd do. Partly because it's not my place, and also because smacking would be such a departure from my usual approach with them that I think it would damage my relationships with them, were I to do it. Because I'm generally very gentle in the way I deal with them, just by speaking firmly I'll tend to provoke a shocked (sometimes tearful and angry - but ultimately compliant) response....probably because it's a sufficiently marked contrast from my usual approach to let them now that they've crossed a boundary.

 

Of course, it's easy to do the nice, softly softly approach when you're not responsible for parenting 24/7, and subject to all the stresses and strains that entails. I do feel, though, that the more frequently a parent resorts to shouting/physical chastisement in the way that my neighbour does, the more meaningless it becomes as a method of laying out boundaries.

[tinktronik]

I tend to be a soft spoken person .Im not a screamer and as yet not a spanker. I have raised my vioce and it seems to have no effect other than to raise the overall noise level of the crowd.

 

My descision basically started last week when I had to drive and hour to the bank . I loaded the kids into the car got them all buckled,and drove off. The min. I hit the freeway and started to navigate traffic , fighting started in the back seat . I warned them . I pulled over . Started back . Fighting , including yelling crying and hitting across the car insued . I stopped pulled all of the kids out of the car . Did time-outs. started back . The fighting got so out of control that they were throwing things in my line of vision and making driving a danger even climbing out of seat belts. I finnally yelled and it stopped , for about 2 min. I finnally pulled off took a break and then turned around and went home . They all were grounded with no tv the next day had extra assigned chores were not allowed to play together . But it has gotten to the point where it is a danger for them to behave this way both to myself , them and each other . I feel as if it is my duty as their motherr to make them behave so that they are not in danger , and Im not sure what else to do .

[Star Gazer]

One brother.

 

Who - no offense, Tan - didn't turn out so great.

 

I don't know if I made this clear, but belts often send CPS to your door, T. Just be careful.

 

As a side note, do you ever watch Super Nanny? I know it's a little silly, and I don't have children myself so I can't tell you how burdensome her techniquest are, but from observation I can tell you that MOST of the households she visits to help get out-of-control children under control have children who ARE spanked by their parents, to no avail. She changes their disciplinary guidelines, using plenty of other constructive tools in her arsenal to get the kids to behave...

[tanbark813]

Who - no offense, Tan - didn't turn out so great.

 

I'm guessing the meth may have had a role in that.

[tinktronik]

Who - no offense, Tan - didn't turn out so great.

 

I don't know if I made this clear, but belts often send CPS to your door, T. Just be careful.

 

As a side note, do you ever watch Super Nanny? I know it's a little silly, and I don't have children myself so I can't tell you how burdensome her techniquest are, but from observation I can tell you that MOST of the households she visits to help get out-of-control children under control have children who ARE spanked by their parents, to no avail. She changes their disciplinary guidelines, using plenty of other constructive tools in her arsenal to get the kids to behave...

Yes I've watched Super Nanny. Her methods are simple . I have tried and read the discipline books and used the tools . I also have hired a nanny who has years of experiance with children . She quit after 2 weeks .The boys have also been kicked out of daycare before.

I have talked to the boys Dr.'s and child therapists and they all say consistency is key . Well da%^&* I have used consistency over and over and it is not working in my household. Even the child psychologist has told me that "other methods" may be in line.

 

These are all great ideas and being opposed to spanking myself for so long I can understand all of the ideas and the merit they have , But I think perhaps I just have "special circumstances " at work here .

I did check Texas law when I began to consider it . It states that I could whip with a paddle of belt , or really use any reasonable discipline tool, I checked the Texas def. of that as .. anything that does not longterm damage your child or injure in a way that would send them to the hospital .

I was disturbed that it could be taken so far , and in no way would treat them to anything other that a couple of smacks on the butt . I think though that cps probably just decides in the moment what is reasonable or unreasonable.

However if I do not find some discipline tool that works, CPS will show up when the kids are kicked out of school in a few years for bad behavior , or when one of my son's break the others arm and have to be taken to the hospital . Im just in a no win here.