Angst of the Infidel

[lostboy60645]

I'm no where close to a point when I'd like to start dating yet--my divorce which has been in the works essentially since 10/06 at least, has not even been finalized.

 

In fact, I'd even go back to counseling with my wife if she'd ever give me another chance, but she won't as evidenced by the several refusals and in spite of my honesty and open accountability from my cheating on her.

 

I guess I'm from the school of thought where 'once a cheater, always a cheater' and yet, I can say with complete confidence and honesty that I've not been with a prostitute or even masturbated or looked at porn since 5/21/06.

 

So what's my question?

 

Glad you've read on.

 

As I continue some intense work around numerous emotional issues, not the least of which is 'sex addiction' (see http://www.livingsobriety.blogspot.com and/or www.sa.org ), I sometimes lose sight of the Faith that's gotten me this far and question if I'll ever meet the 'right person' again.

 

I mean, I've commited to an observant religious life, although I feel like one of those twisted evangelicals or congress people who have affairs and speak out against them at the same time.

 

It makes me question, is there a 'good catch' out there who'd commit to a recovering sex addict? To boot, I'm also recovering from alcoholism and working on compulsive overeating.

 

As an aside, I find the sex addiction and overeating the hardest to recover from. I actually quit drinking mostly because it loosened me up for the other two and thank G-d I'm not really tempted to drink at all.

 

On paper, I'd stay away from a guy like me, but the gals I work with who know that I'm going through a divorce seem pretty excited that I'm 'availalbe'.

 

I'm not really available though. I figure I've got at least another year or two of solid recovery before I'd even throw my hat in the dating ring again.

 

But, I'd just like to start a thread to hear if there are successful relationships with those recovering from being a compulsive liar, cheater, etc...

 

Tawk amongst yah selves...

 

Lostboy60645

http://www.livingsobriety.blogspot.com

[Mr. Lucky]

Those relationships that I have seen work successfully when one (or both) partners bring that type of baggage to the table were the ones that started off slowly. The participants knew each other as friends or, after meeting, had a substantial friendly foundation for their interactions before anything romatic began. That kind of low-key phase gives a potential partner a chance to know the person behind the problems before they commit and the resulting faith helps deal with any down-the-road issues.

 

On the other hand, the "we just met 3 weeks ago, let's run off to Vegas and get married" relationships seem to crash and burn for recovering addicts in rather spectacular fashion. As with most things in life, a measured and deliberate approach gives the best results...

 

Mr. Lucky

[IfWishesWereHorses]

LB,

 

I've read the first page of your blog and found it quite interesting. There are a few other women on this board that might appreciate learing more about sexual addiction from you, though I don't imagine we have much to offer in return.

 

I'm curious as to how long your therapy has been going on? How the alcoholism plays into the SA? If there are other issues or diagnosis other than the addictions. Why you want a successful relationship? It just seems to me that the compulsive lying, as well as the SA are moot if you are not in a committed relationship. Is it part of your religious healing? Did that come about as part of the recovery? Has NPD been suggested or addressed? You mentioned a temple, may I ask what denomination?

 

But, I'd just like to start a thread to hear if there are successful relationships with those recovering from being a compulsive liar, cheater, etc...

 

I don't think you'll find the answer to your question here as we didn't come to this place because we have found success in our relationships. The women here are for the most part in the place that your wife would be if she had stayed (and I mean that with no disrespect to your situation) but from my own experience. Tell me, have any of your buddies had any success? Are any of them still with their partners and are the partners actualy happy or merely martyring themselves to a "cause" they believe in? From what I've read, full recovery seems unlikely, and as you said in your blog, "I know I have another slip in me".

 

Please excuse my intrusion if any of my questions are too personal or invasive. I'm dealing with all of the above issues from a partners perspective and would very much love to pick your brain if I may. Is it possible to contact you through your blog?

 

One other question, do you believe you have ever felt true love toward another woman? Do I remember that you have been married several times or am I confusing that with one of your buddies stories.

 

Again, why do you aspire to a committed relationship, if your wife is gone I don't understand that?

 

Thanks for any help in understanding this.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

I've read much more of your blog, been skipping around a bit, probably should have started at the beginning but I truly didn't intend to be compelled to read it at length.

 

A few of my questions have been answered. I have one more. If your father was the one who imposed these issues on your life, why do you blame your mother. Without the knowledge (that wasn't even commonplace in her day) how could she have been much more than the codependant that you yourself are struggling with?

 

Also, and I realize that this is a double edged sword, but you do realize that your wife is taking the steps that you seem to think your mother should have taken to protect you. Sorry if that was mentioned, like I said, I've been reading it peicemeal.

 

Thanks very much for your blog, I'm amazed at how similar your childhood experiences are to that of my H's, who is dealing with very much the same issues as yourself, minus the recovery. I'm also thankful that you write so well as it is very easy to read.

 

Just wow.

[lostboy60645]

I'm curious as to how long your therapy has been going on? How the alcoholism plays into the SA?

 

I had what I thought was a unique introduction to identifying my illness and disclosing to my wife. I went onto google and looked up sex addiction as I'm an educated person and consider myself a disciplined individual who, for what it's worth, has some letters after my name that suggest some degree of intelligence. It must be noted that IQ and advanced degrees are proven to be distinct from an individual's degree of evil inclination and powerlessness over addiction. If anything, the smarter the addict, the worse off s/he'll be since they're so good at hiding things and justifying them.

 

At any rate, I found a therapist with a CSAT (certified sex addiction therapy degree) and made an appointment. After seeing him a couple of times, he convinced me that my "sobriety" from sexual acting out must include sobriety from alcohol (which loosened my inhibitions and allowed my 'addict' to take over) and sobriety from compulsive sexual behavior must include some sort of 12 step program. This includes going to meetings and staying in touch with some accountability partners other than my betrayed spouse, who at that time only suspected I was acting strangely and had no idea I was out on the streets or masturbating to internet porn on a regular basis.

 

Although my wife had suspected I had been hiding something, perhaps a drinking problem (only a small part of the truly heinous truth) she did not put things together with regards to my not coming to bed with her at the same time, with my coming home late, leaving work during the day or with my use of our petty cash account, to the tune of thousands of dollars.

 

Ironically, I thought disclosing the whole truth to her would result in us staying together and working things out. I guess it's like a murderer saying "I killed your family, can we still try to be friends?".

 

Why you want a successful relationship? It just seems to me that the compulsive lying, as well as the SA are moot if you are not in a committed relationship.

 

Ostensibly, you're right. It is impossible to be in a committed relationship or any truly emotionally intimate relationship in the throes of addiction. There are some great books about this. The first one I read is called Out of the Shadows by Patrick Carnes PhD. Another is Lonley All the Time, but I don't remember that author. What's tragically interesting is that the sexual/relationship compulsive does not ever feel satisfied by all of the extramarital activity, be it masturbation, prostitutes/escorts, or affairs. And that same person must, by definition, lead a double life. They are at the very least being duplicitous to themselves, trying to convince themselves that the numbing or anesthetizing, calming effect of their acting out is worth continuing.

 

I absolutely want to be in a committed relationship. Most sadly, I wish it was with my dear wife, who I appreciate so much more now that my head is out of the fog of addiction.

 

The thing is, she never had a chance with me. By keeping the pornography and masturbation a secret allowed for my acting out to escalate to the use of prostitutes. Continuing the double life allowed me to avoid true emotional intimacy with her.

 

The betrayal was so extensive in the last 10 years, seven of them married, that the damage is irreparable.

 

I only pray that I continue and she continues to get better which will hopefully allow us to break this cycle in this generation. We have beautiful twin boys, just 2 and a half. Sadly, I never appreciated them as much as I do now, with some true sobriety.

 

Is it part of your religious healing? Did that come about as part of the recovery?

 

My reconnection with my Jewish heritage was through a student I met in professional school. At the time, I was getting over a short marriage--eight months under the same roof. During that marriage, I was unable to emotionally connect, and my masurbating to pornography and eventually visits to the adult video booths to masturbate, resulted in an isolation that killed the marriage. Shortly thereafter, I'd hit my 'bottom line' sexual acting out behavior, visiting escorts and prostitutes for the first time. I would go about thrice weekly to these women and after a year of that, I started going to a rabbi's home for Sabbath dinners. His love and acceptance of me (just being a non-observant, self-hating Jew. He had NO CLUE I'd been masturbating and going to prostitutes) led to me giving up 'the street'. I became quite observant and looked 'the part' as observant. But I never gave up the porn or masturbating. It was a shameful secret I kept from him and my next wife. And I was much, much better at hiding it than my father was from me and my sibs.

 

Incredibly, after I'd hit my bottom line again, about 10 years later, it was the "Higher Power" concept of G-d that I reconnected with in the 12 step program. It's actually kept me from even masturbating, let alone seeing anyone outside of my marriage (we're not divorced yet but living separately for 9 months).

 

And the rabbi, to his credit, has not blinked his eyes or waivered for a moment in his love for me. He's truly an example for me that G-d exists in people.

 

Has NPD been suggested or addressed?

I'm no psychologist or psychiatrist, but I know quite a bit about different mental illnesses, at least more than the average bear.

 

Narcissistic Personality Disorder is one thing I'm not terribly familiar with but I know there are several "personality disorders" that exist in a "spectrum", meaning that one person may have several qualities of different personality quirks and not necessarily the pure "NPD".

 

That being said, there's no doubt a degree of entitlement that came along with my acting out. I felt I worked hard, I was mistreated at times (in my mind), and I 'deserved' it.

 

What I know now is that I have never taken care of myself properly and that led to my sense of entitlement.

 

It is truly incredible what a proper amount of sleep, proper eating, and a fitness regimen, in addition to healthy things like good hobbies, and true emotional intimacy, particularly with guy friends (yes, it CAN happen!), can do for mental health and preventing relapse.

 

Without a doubt, it was also the history of physical, sexual, and emotional abuse that I suffered, in conjunction with the devastatingly poor examples of how to work out conflict--a legacy poisoning all of my siblings, given to us by our parents--that led to my inappropriate responses to stress. I did not want to talk problems out or deal with things like 'an adult'. I worked things out the way I learned over the 27 years that preceded meeting my wife. I isolated and anesthetized. I fantasized. Anything I could do to avoid my feelings and to avoid any 'real connections'.

 

At 37, I'm finally learning how to cope without my 'drugs' and to feel my feelings.

 

How sad this makes me.

 

But how grateful I am to be realizing this and doing something about it.

 

Lostboy60645

http://www.livingsobriety.blogspot.com

[lostboy60645]

If your father was the one who imposed these issues on your life, why do you blame your mother. Without the knowledge (that wasn't even commonplace in her day) how could she have been much more than the codependant that you yourself are struggling with?

 

It's taken a lot of thought to come to some realizations about this. First off, I guess "blame" is too strong a word here. My mom, without a doubt, knew where I was getting my porn from. She'd caught me with my dad's stuff and put it back in their room where he kept it. But she never had the difficult conversations with me about why I was doing what I was doing, and I may never know how she handled it with my dad, but they're still married and he kept his 'stash' in the same place for my whole life.

 

I'm not sure if there's a right answer about what a mom should do, but I guess, in my mind, she could have possibly set me up with some therapy to address this issue directly. She could have insisted on a locked box for my father's porn. She could have insisted on my dad discussing the issue with me. I'm not sure what she did do, but I know what she didn't do and how the continued access, combined with the lack of good guidance or mentorship led to my developing a devastating problem.

 

In fairness, my mom did not have the tools to deal with this stuff and much later, I found out she was physically, sexually, and emotionally abused during her upbringing as well.

 

your wife is taking the steps that you seem to think your mother should have taken to protect you.

 

There's no question in my mind that my wife is doing things in a very sensible way to keep her and the children safe from me. I don't believe I pose a sexual or physical threat to them, but if my addiction was left untreated, G-d knows what could have happened.

 

At the very least, she was breastfeeding and raising twin boys on her own, begging me for help and affection and all I did was spend our money on prostitutes and porn.

 

And it took HER to tell me, once I disclosed the truth, that I had put her and the boys at risk of STD's. She just reminded me during her last annual exam that she'll always remember my betrayal when she goes to her gynecologist.

 

I'm deeply ashamed of these things. But my recovery continues...

 

I appreciate the dialogue here. It helps me as much or more than any reader, I'm sure.

 

Lostboy60645

http://www.livingsobriety.blogspot.com

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Thank you for your answers. I hope that my questions did not come across as pointed. These are issues that I am dealing with in my life as well as the fall out and psychological trauma of betrayal.

 

I worked psych for years so I SHOULD have the tools to handle these things a little better but unfortunately since I, unlike my husband, grew up with the Cleaver's, I never expected them to affect my life and have no script on a personal level.

 

I asked about your mother and wife because I remember years ago, after my husband became sober from alcohol abuse and my sister-in-law was dealing with the alcoholism of my husband's brother, I stated to her that her own child from a previous marraige was being affected and that if my Mother-in-law, had stood up and left my Father-in-law (who also suffered from SA, and subjected every woman in his path including his own children to his abuse) then it was possible that neither of us would be dealing with this at the moment. She hated me for that.

 

Now, I'm faced with the same decisions. I do not worry about my H touching any child, as it's something that he detests because of dealing with it in his own life. I also see his condition as an illness and while I don't care to martyr myself for it and NEVER want my children to blame me for his behavior I do take my committment seriously and want to explore every avenue. I do not want his behavior to seem normal or common place to them at all.

 

You talk alot about shame and guilt invoking behaviors of acting out and this is quite typical of NPD. There is no doubt in my mind that my husband fits the bill to a tee as a somatic narcissist short of having his pic in the latest DSM.

 

I am using this time to recover myself from the shock and trauma and then to make a rational decision. Not to be hurtful, but I understand your wife's decision as you are a poor risk. I too have succumbed to "magical thinking". Like your wife, when I realized that things were completely amiss I assumed he had fallen off the wagon and was correct, but the rest of what I found was mind boggling to me.

 

The honesty in your blog is much appreciated and has helped me immensely as I can hear it from you without emotional involvement or the triggers of betrayal in my own life. I showed it to my husband and he spent a couple of hours pouring through it himself. We do not, however, have the resources in this small town that you seem to have in the way of therapist.

 

It has always amazed me that my husband rarely missed a day in church through all of this. I don't quite grasp the dual lifestyle, and hope to learn more about how that worked. I just can't wrap my mind around it. Because of what I've been through maybe, I have a VERY strong need to keep my feet on terra firma, figuratively.

He was sober for 10 years and hasn't made any promises to try again, which I respect at the moment as I'm sure his attempts would be in vain. One reason I guess that the "I know I have another slip, but not sure if I have another recovery in me" stuck for me.

 

You talk about the justifying, have you made much headway in that respect. I read some justifications in your blog but then it seems in the next sentence you atleast acknowledge them. I have said for a few years to him, you have the unique ability to convince yourself of ANYTHING and completely ignore the fact that no one else is fooled. What process was involved in the realization of that?

 

Our managed care, psych rider sucks and my H is seeing a woman therapist as she is the only one not completely booked. Do you have any thoughts on that? You mention your wife being in a group, is that a codependents group? Is it a community type group or is it facilitated by a professional?

 

Thanks so much, again, for sharing this. I will be keeping up with your blog, and hope you will stick around here and share. Good luck with your recovery.

 

IWWH