Starting of infidelity?

[KITT113]

Maybe it is just my dumbness of what may have been going on around me in my marriage to my h, we have been married 23 years, and dated for 8 more years before being married. My husband has always flirted with women, younger women, he likes to buy women presents which I told him I do not like, but insists on doing it still. His presents that I know of have been long stem red roses, and a gift certificate to victoria secret, my husband is self-employed, so he can go as he pleases. I believe he has opened a po box somewhere, and I do have the post office box number and address, because I went through his trash and found it. I have found a number of a woman he called late at night while I was on a spirtual retreat with my church. I told him I knew and all he said was, don't call her she is a cutter, I have seen pictures of her on the internet by luck I found it by going onto a search forum and typing in her cell number. I want to know if there is a way I can get verification that he has this po box number. I can't afford to hire a private detective, and have been asking around where I work about different options I may have. I want to catch him in the act of course, like everyone else wants to do. There is more to the story but I will leave it like this for now. My husband has been flirting or whatever you may call it for years, he is 48 could it be that he is going through male menopause? Please help me, any suggestions would be wonderful. Thank You for your time..

[Lynna]

Long stem red roses and Victoria Secret gift certificates are NOT gifts that a man gives to a woman who is just a friend!!!! If he has always done this then it is not male menopause or a mid-life crisis. If he disrgeards your feelings about giving these gifts then he is being selfish. When he told you not to call her because she would hurt herself, he is trying to protect himself and her, clearly there is something going on, otherwise she would have no reason to threaten herself and he would have no reason to think that she would. Call her, ask her what is going on. If you have the PO Box number and address, then clearly he does have it. Plan another out of town outing and then get a friend to help you and you can follow him yourself and see where he goes. Use your friend's car. Your instincts help you pick up on warnings and what you have written here seems very wrong indeed. I don't think it is the starting of and affair, I think he has been doing this for quite awhile. But that is just my opinion.

[2sunny]

yes, he is seeing someone(s)

 

he has the key to the po box somewhere - so find it! use it!

 

go in with your eyes open - and keep an open mind...

[KITT113]

I like your response straight to the point. I know I should be more aggressive, but I guess, like others we think it will just go away. My husband does have some health issues, and he talks about regrets of things he should of done when he was younger, that is why I was thinking he was going through male menopause. He goes to breakfast every morning, mostly at the same place, and buys the women up there coffee every sunday. I have the receipts, I go through his wallet. I am going in there one day so they will know who I am, because they probably don't even know I exist. They invite him to parties, but I am not invited. His father did the same thing to his mother.He used to go out and eat in the evenings, by himself while I would do church activities. But the past two weeks he has not done that, we visited a friend of his to do some work on his house, and ever since my husband has been alot better doing more things with me. SO that is a good sign but..

[lovelorcet]

Does he have issues with your church involvement?

[KITT113]

how does one keep their mouth shut and not say anything and throw it on the others face, I think that is the hardest thing for me to do. How can I keep from doing this, I am doing it right now, but man I am real close to throwing it at him, and letting him know that I know he has a po box. 23 years of marriage down the drain. Let me tell you, I am physically fit, and have a wash board stomach at the age of 48, why does a man want a younger woman and not someone they are married to, can anyone answer that question. But then its probably just because they are younger, and want to be seen with someone younger. Is that what it is, the thrill??? Am I actually understanding men to some point??

[KITT113]

no, actually he likes me to do things for the church. He does not go to church with me. See, while I am away the dog will play? Its a true shame to me though, I keep wandering where have I gone wrong. I am looking to the wrong person, he should be the one saying this, not me. I know these things but its still hard to stay strong through all of this. I just want him to open up and tell me, like any other woman would want.

[whichwayisup]

Him seeking out other women is not about you, so don't blame yourself. This is just pure selfish behaviour on his behalf and it seems your H has big ego that he likes to feed by flirting and doing whatever with other women.

 

Suggest marriage counselling, tell him that what he is doing is killing your heart, it's unfair, cruel and he MUST stop that behaviour!

[IfWishesWereHorses]

If you want to know if it is HIS PO box, I would mail him something that he would bring home, maybe something to wear. Umm... you would know best what he would appreciate and want to show off. Mail it with a card that simply talks about how special he is or how much he is appreciated and only sign it xoxoxoxo!

 

Mail it from a post office outside of your zip code or across town.

 

I will tell you this if this, while what your husband is doing is completely wrong, investing large amounts of time into interests however noble, can have similar affects on a marriage as infidelity. So while time spent working at the church, volunteering, or even having your children in many time consuming activities, can take away from the marriage.

 

Also, the PO box would have a key, have you found the key?

[directx]

"His presents that I know of have been long stem red roses, and a gift certificate to victoria secret"

 

Holy crap! These are NOT gifts men to give to 'friends'. These are gifts men would LIKE to give to women they have the hots for.

 

You also mention:

"Let me tell you, I am physically fit, and have a wash board stomach at the age of 48, why does a man want a younger woman and not someone they are married to, can anyone answer that question. But then its probably just because they are younger, and want to be seen with someone younger."

No where above do you mention the mental side of things. Only the physical. What is the mental connection you guys have? Do you spend time together? I would suspect there is something missing. You might want to consider that.

 

In regards to your detective work, I wouldn't tip my hand just yet. Keep him comfortable in believing he is pulling one over on you (if he is).

 

For starters, see if you can get that PO key, maybe you can get it copied or something. If its on his key ring, you might want to take the whole key ring (so its not easily apparent that some specific key was targeted).

 

If you do the laundry, check his underwear for mysterious stains, hairs.

 

Does he come freshly showered? This could be a clue too. Search his car if you can. If you are going to search his car, prepare a reason why you are in his car (like, prepare a gift to leave him wishing him well. That way if he catches you, you can show him this.)

 

Anyway, good luck

[IfWishesWereHorses]

If you are going to search his car, have one of those pull off sticky, pet hair rollers, where you can pull off each peice. Roll the floor boards, under the seats, front and back. If he's had women in there, you will find strands of strange hair, that belong to neither of you.

 

 

You can always be looking for the earing that you lost. Also, does he keep a brush in his car? Check that.

 

Another thing is that many of the bronzers and lotions that are used today have an iridescence to them which will stick to the deoderant areas inside of his shirt and when held up to direct sunlight or a very bright light especially flourescent will show as glittery.

 

A black light will show stains in underwear but its very difficult to determine urine from other bodily fluids, but placement might be important there.

[JamesM]

As a guy who knows of men who have or had secrets from their wives....these are definitely warning signs.

 

First off, the types of gifts he sends to women is not what friends do. And why does he do it? For his own male ego? Do YOU get those kind of gifts? Are these ALL single and younger women?

 

Second, it could be a mid life crisis. From what I have noticed, this happens to most men around 42 to 44 or later. Interestingly enough, it does not seem to happen at 40. But a couple of years later, it really hits the guy that those women in their 20s do not truly look at him anymore. They DO think he is a father figure. It is then that many men suddenly try to regain that adoration from young women. (Me...I have always liked women in their 30s, so I cannot relate. Yes, I liked women in their 30s when I was in my 20s. No, I don't know why).

 

Does he wear his wedding ring sometimes? At all? What is his reason? Would he care if you no longer wore yours? If he does not wear his, then you have the same permission to quit wearing yours.

 

A PO Box is a definite problem. Did he tell you about it or did you discover it? What do you think he has it for? Does he watch porn that you know of? You may have to confront him on this, and do it when he least expects it so you can see his reaction. If you lead into it, he has a chance to come up with a "plausible" story. Having a key will not be helpful, because if you don't know why he uses it or when, you may never actually find anything in it. Besides, if your name is not on it, you are breaking laws of the Federal government..EVEN if you are his wife. The only way to know why he uses it is to send an anonymous letter to him from an admirer, and then you can see how he responds to it. Ask him if he is married and see what his response is.

 

I think it is a good idea to show up where he has coffee some morning. Just pop in and see what he does. If he gets angry that you show up, then you have invaded his special world of fantasy. That by itself may not mean he is cheating. Some of us guys do have places where we get away, but for myself, I don't care if my wife shows up with me. And if she surprises me, it doesn't affect my morning...like there are no cute waitresses who will suddenly find out I am married. I never really try to keep that a secret.

 

Does he have his own cell phone? And was this a one time thing that he called women while you were gone?

 

Have you ever come home early...unexpected? Does your phone keep a record of the calls dialed...or just the last one? Some phones keep a memory for the last five or ten calls dialed. This will not be helpful though if he deletes them.

 

At the least, his behavior is disrespectful and hurtful. IT is certainly not what a loving husband does. The fact that he has secrets from you that he knows will hurt you is bad. The fact that he calls women secretly and has a secret PO box is a sign that he could be either having an affair (or multiple affairs) or is at least trying to have them. And the fact that he sends women roses and GCs to Victorias Secret says that he is incredibly rude and inconsiderate of his wife and actually those women. All of these are signs of a man who is in desperate need of ego strokes for his own selfish needs. Men who are confident of their manhood do not need to have women adore them by giving them gifts.

 

You have three choices....live with it, leave him or fix the situation. Living with it means you do nothing about what you know. (If his father did this to his mother, and she lived with it, then your husband expects YOU to live with it). Leaving him will be very traumatic, and being that you attend church and probably do not like divorce, this should be a last resort. But I am guessing that if he thought you were considering this option, he would straighten up...for awhile at least. Fixing it is actually the hardest. Not only do you have to confront him, but you will need to learn to trust him all over again. And from what you have said, he has lived a life of secrets...do you really think he will change?

 

He needs individual counseling. You both need marriage counseling. And you both need to become recommitted to each other. There is hope that you can rebuild this marriage, but it is not a lot...unless he changes his ways completely.

[KITT113]

I ask for no gifts, I really don't ask for anything. I buy myself something every once in a while. I don't like jewelry only the cross I wear on my neck. I a very frugal wife I guess. Just like to go out to eat every once in a while. We have been on cruises together, but every trip we take he gets mad at me for something, half the time its something stupid. I don't think all the women he talks to are single, he told me he enjoys talking to them. I said well I don't think its right you do that, but he sees nothing wrong with it. He has never worn a wedding ring because of the type work he does, with construction and building, but that is just him not wanting to wear it, so guess what I have joined him. We went to the beach last week to his friends house in which he is going to do some work on this guys house, and called me an f...nnn nasty bi... cause he said I did not want to go into this restaraunt this lady friend of his suggested, well I would not of been out of the car if I did not want to go. He made my cry that night he has never apologized so the ring has not gone back on. I am devoted to Christ and this is not right, but I have a forgiving soul. I want to help him but he has to help himself. Bottom line I want to catch him. Then where I will go from there I don't know,without funds to move, I am like other women or men, I am stuck for now. I found the po box on an envelope he threw in the trash, he was writing it out, and put his name and po box number on it. Not, unless I am just assuming, he was writing to someone else and wrote his name up there by accident, no I have not found a key but I wll look in his truck, like I do many times. OH yeah, I will show up there some time, because those women invite him to parties at their houses,and always say well am I invited and he gets real quiet and saysnothing, so by that I know the answer. THey need to know who I am,and they will sometime here shortly.

yes he has a cell phone and I have an account online and I watch every call he gets and either call them or look them up, that is how I found out about this one lady he told me not to call because she is a cutter, I have not called her back but I will. I block my calls so she can't see who is calling her. I will add more later, going out to dinner. Thanks for talking to me I appreciate your kindness and time.

[whichwayisup]

Borrow money from your family or a good friend that you trust so you can hire a PI.

 

I am devoted to Christ and this is not right, but I have a forgiving soul.

 

That's fine and dandy IF he is willing to change, and do all that is necessary TO change, but right now, he has told you HE thinks he's doing nothing wrong, even though it upsets you. He is disrespecting you, your feelings and also, calling you rude names is not cool at all.

 

Don't let him walk all over you, k.

 

Remember as well, he is and has been lying to you, so the chances of her being a cutter may not be true. He could be telling you that so you WON'T call her.

[JamesM]

OH yeah, I will show up there some time, because those women invite him to parties at their houses,and always say well am I invited and he gets real quiet and says nothing, so by that I know the answer. They need to know who I am,and they will sometime here shortly.

 

In my life I have found that when women meet my wife, they have a different feeling for me. Most of them become her friend, and then they no longer think of me as "some other woman's husband." My wife then has a face and personality. By you meeting them, you will show first that your H has a wife. He may never have told them. And second, you will show them that you are a neat and nice person. And you can do that by introducing yourself and showing them that you have no antagonism towards them. In fact, you will show them that you have heard wonderful things about them and wanted to meet them. Obviously, you will need to be super friendly and loving towards your husband as well...even if seems not to be towards you.

 

He has never worn a wedding ring because of the type work he does, with construction and building,

 

Guys always use excuses, but this one is only good if he puts his ring on when he is not working. If he keeps the ring off always, then this is no longer a valid reason.

 

I said well I don't think its right you do that, but he sees nothing wrong with it.

 

It is one thing if he talks to them and lets them know he is married. It is quite another thing if he flirts with them and buys them lingerie.

 

He made my cry that night he has never apologized so the ring has not gone back on. I am devoted to Christ and this is not right, but I have a forgiving soul.

 

I am a firm believer in the idea that if he does not want to wear his ring, then you should not have to wear your ring. The funny thing about many guys is that they want their ring off ("I can't wear it because of my job." "It gives me a rash." And other excuses used), but if their wives decided not to wear hers, they would feel as if she no longer wanted to be married to him. And that is because these men know that they flirt with women without rings.

[Tomcat33]

KITT113

 

While it is his doing to go into these flirtatious tirades buying gifts for other women etc. he does it beacause he knows he can. It doesn't appear that you have done anything to ask him to stop, so why would he stop?

 

I disagree that you have nothing to do with this, he is your H and he is doing something that breaks the bond between the two of you. It is making you uncomfortable and he needs to know this. Why would you complain about it but do nothing about it? If you want it to stop you need to let him know it's GOT to stop. Communicate to him how it makes you feel, and flat out tell him it is inapropriate for your relationship. And don't be afraid of what he will say, if you want respect you have to show him that you expect respect unfortunately it doesn't seem to be coming naturally to him.

 

And please stop with this frugal tendecy of yours, pretend you want a flower and let him buy you a flower. He needs to redirect his wooing techniques to the person he should be wooing, YOU.

[KITT113]

Well I actually went up to Bob E. and made myself known to everyone up there. They all told me that my husband is very nice, and likes to give the waitresses gifts, meaning some of the waitresses money and paying rent for one of them. At least that is what the lady thinks that was talking to me, who works there, but she does not have any evidence though if he is really paying someones rent, she just mentioned it to one of the waitresses, and she said the one waitress took off running across the room, so what does that tell you. I waited around until the one waitress shows up that he is supposedly given money to, and is he is her special customer, because he gave her a ride on his harley in which I am paying for. I told him no more, no one's but is going on that bike ever again except for mine. So I saw the nasty waitresses, big belly, crooked teeth nothing to look at and she looked at me. I was told later by the lady I was speaking with, that she said that her husband does not love her anymore, anyway, referring to me. She can have him, if that is what they both want. I told him he could have her and her 4 children, and help support them because she lives in the basement of someones home. I told him that I would sign the papers if he would just give them to me. I am so drained about all this, did not sleep much last night. So who knows what today holds, he does not want a divorce, but he surely has to change his ways. He says he likes to look at women, well don't all men, I said that is fine, but you don't need to give them any money or gifts, because all they are doing is using you. What is it, some kind of fantasy to look at these women, want them to excite you, and then buy them things, and then not have sex with them? I confronted him on that too, he said he has not had sex with any of them. So where do I go from here? Only God knows the answer, but I am hanging in there you can bet.

[LakesideDream]

Men not wearing a wedding ring... brings up a funny thought. 8 years into my 25 marriage, education completed (part time the last 4 years due to working full time) I was forced to stop wearing my wedding ring daily.

 

My profession (engineer) became hands on. ANY jewlery, including a metal wrist watch, (I had to wear a cheapie plastic wrist watch) could have caused me instant electrocution and possible death. I did wear it on occasions, parties, adult dinners out etc.

 

After a few years I was back to selling the stuff instead of designing/prototyping it, and the ring was back on. The woman didn't let me forget it though. First thing she said when she noticed I was wearing it full time was "GF dumped you eh"? Nice...

[KITT113]

wow looking back the earlier posts i put out there, what was I thinking staying with him, love was truly blind. i am divorce now just recently, and trying to get on with my life. Him, he is still doing the same thing as before drinking up at a bar and picking up women, thats his life goal. As for me, I now see things clearly and I am not caught all up in him anymore. I have learned many lessons through this whole thing and I am wanting to reach out to others who may be going through what I went through. I am stronger than before, I still have my moments but this too shall pass with time. I wanted to thank you all for your help and support truly meant alot to me. So I am here now with what I have learned to help others through what I went through. God bless you all!

[Woman In Blue]

Smart, smart move. Dumping this scumbag was the best thing you ever did.

 

Good luck to you.