Life in a nutshell Posted July 26, 2007 Posted July 26, 2007 I've been reading these posts for awhile now and have gotten a lot of good advice from them. This is my first post, so please bear with me... About 4 months ago my H told me that he wasn't sure he was happy anymore. (we've been married 3 yrs, together 7) I took that as a huge wakeup call and started looking at how stale and boring we'd collectively become and he and I both started working to bring back excitement and romance to our marriage... before anything really bad happened. Or so I thought. Still, the thought lingered that things weren't quite right... and then one day, about 2 months ago, I received an email. The email was from someone I didn't know but it had my husband's name in the subject line. I opened it and found a copy of the OW's phone bill... showing all the calls the two of them had made that month. And, there were a lot of them. (She lives in a different state). I didn't even know this woman existed before that minute... but he was calling her every morning on the way to work, every day at lunch, and for at least 1-2 hours after work each day (while telling me he was working late those evenings). I have to travel quite a bit for work, and he would call her those nights when I was away and talk to her for hours--one night for five hours, deep into the night. He was working that day, so I called him and confronted him. Of course he denied it at first, but after a very tearful confrontation, he told me she was "nothing" to him, "just a friend" and that he saw how harmful this friendship was to us and our future and he would end it that day. A week later I got another email from this anonymous person (still don't know if it is her or her husband. Yes, she too is married) telling me it was still going on. I sat on this information for awhile, asking him if they were still talking. He of course said they weren't.. he had ended it to "make things right" with us again. Annnndddd.. finally, after I received even more emails, I confronted him again and he said yes, they're still at it. We are going to MC and we've made a lot of positive changes---trying to reconnect with old friends, trying to find new interests we can share, trying to bring back more passion and romance. Yet, the one thing he won't do is stop talking to this woman. He has said that she is his "safety net." He has said he wants to keep her in his life, in case we don't work out. I have talked to her and asked her to please respect the fact that he and I want to work things out and have asked HER to be the bigger person and break things off. She told me she depends on him for her happiness and won't do it. He's now telling me that he needs her for emotionally stability and that she's keeping him grounded while he and I work through our issues. To me, he's in an emotional affair with this woman. No matter what the therapist tells him regarding this--telling him that in order for us to heal, my H has to start giving of himself emotionally to me and not to her---my H refuses to budge. He keeps telling me to give him more time to end it with her. I've never been a doormat. But, I do love him and I wanted to make things work. Now I am seeing that he's not 100% committed to us. He may say he loves me. He may say he wants us to work out... but his very actions are showing me something so different. That he wants HER. That he wants his cake and he wants to eat it, too. I just feel like an idiot. Duped and stupid. I have put so much energy and effort into trying to fix US. I should have just been fixing ME. This is all so surreal to me. I feel like I'm watching someone else's life spin out of control around me. My world has slipped through my fingers... and I can't do a darn thing to fix it. I guess I just wanted to vent and to hear from others who have been there... please, oh please, tell me that it is possible to heal yourself after something like this...
tinktronik Posted July 26, 2007 Posted July 26, 2007 It is possible to heal yourself . But it does not sound like you can heal your M . The saftey net thing is just that you H wants to cheat ,period . He still values this R with her more that your M , but wants to keep the M going intact also. How comforting this whole situation must be for him. How sad . You should value yourself higher than to make things convienient for him.You should leave and go no contact for a while , maybe later down the road he'll see the value of your M and then it will be time to go to MC , but he is still investing his time and energy instead of into your M into sneaking around.
whichwayisup Posted July 26, 2007 Posted July 26, 2007 If your marriage has a chance to work, then he needs to cut ALL contact with her. I suggest you contact the OW's husband and let him in on what his wife has been up to...I'd bet my life on it that it's the OW who's been emailing you because if it was her H, you'd know by now. He needs to be an open book to you, allow you access to ALL his emails, passwords, cellphone records etc...That is, if he is willing to work on the marriage....But, sadly, atleast right now, it seems he isn't willing to let go of the OW, he is SO used to having TWO women in his life to fulfill all his needs, which is probably why he can't give the OW up. You have afew decisions to make. Kick him out and let him go figure out that the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence - (that is, IF you're willing to give him second chance to make it up to you when/if he comes back) or divorce him now. Either way, you need to put yourself FIRST. I'm sorry that you're in pain and going through this.
Ladyjane14 Posted July 26, 2007 Posted July 26, 2007 I'm with WWIU... I think the probability is higher that the anonymous emails are coming from OW rather than from her husband. Why wouldn't the husband have identified himself? If this correspondence is indeed from the OW, you can bet that she's got her motives. Either your WH has attempted to break up with her and she's pissed off wondering how he can just go back to his normal life.. or, she's trying to force your hand and make you leave him. Unless this person is willing to identify themselves... block them. You're leaving yourself open to manipulation unless you KNOW their motives. In the meantime... "Cake eaters will continue to eat cake until you take it off their plate". Think about it, why would a guy settle for one woman when he can have two? YOU weren't born into this world to be some guy's "safety net". You're worth more than that. And unless you're willing to honor your self-worth, you can't expect others to do so. It's unfortunate, but I think you're backed into a bit of a corner here. You can continue to compete with OW and maybe win your husband back, but if you don't have his respect and he doesn't value you the way he ought to, what have you won?
whichwayisup Posted July 26, 2007 Posted July 26, 2007 He may have to see firsthand what life will be like without you in it. If you love him, and are willing to give him a second chance, fight for him and your marriage, but make sure that HE understands you'll only be with him if the OW isn't in his life anymore.
Lynna Posted July 26, 2007 Posted July 26, 2007 Yes, you can heal from this! But no, you are right, you can't heal while he continues to have contact with her. If he really loves you, you and your marriage should be more important to him than her! If he is not willing to disscontinue contact with her, then tell him that you want a trial separation. Tell him you are still willing to work on your marriage, but that you are not the one responsible for doing all the work. Remind him that for you to work on your marriage, you BOTH have to be willing to work on it. Tell him that he can contact you when he is ready to end all contact with her. Once he can give you PROOF of the conversation in which he tells her he wants to end it (i.e. he lets you listen to his side as he tells her, he can show you his phone bills, gives you complete access to his email, etc. as others mentioned above) then you can move back in together and reenter marriage counseling. And make HIM be the one to move out! He is the one that screwed things up. You have to lay your boundaries with him. You have been trying to work on things but he has not, now like a child who misbehaves, he has to face the consequences. That is the only way to get him to stop. When you talked to the OW, did she ask how you found out about them? What did you say? This could be very important, if she IS trying to manipulate you then her H does not know! This could give you some control over the situation. Normally I hedge on the side of not contacting the OW/OM's BS - HOWEVER, in your case, I think you should. Since it sounds like she opened the gates by trying to manipulate you into leaving your H then I think it is only fair that YOU contact HER H. Call him and introduce yourself, explain what is going on and how you found out. Ask him whether he was the one who contacted you. Tell him that you are willing to send him the emails that you received. Tell him you think the emails are coming from her and that you think she is trying to manipulate you, etc. Be completely open with him. She needs to face the music too if she is the one who revealed it to you.
Author Life in a nutshell Posted July 26, 2007 Author Posted July 26, 2007 .. and I know you're all right. Hell, I know what I need to do.. it's just finding the courage to DO it. Last night as we were going round and round again, getting nowhere, I just looked at him and said it, "It's over. Right now, you aren't willing to really give 100%. Until she is out of the picture then we cannot be healed. You know what you need to do." Of course, he just begged and begged that I give him more time... more time? I first confronted him a month ago. And still it's her feelings that he cares about. Our decision was this.. we have another session of counseling this week. We'll see if that helps shed any light on the subject; if nothing else, perhaps she can help us make this transition gracefully. We have to go out of town this weekend for a commitment we can't get out of. Unfortunate, but it is what it is. Upon returning from the weekend... we take a good, hard look at this situation and I think that is when he'll leave. I think he has already made his choice.. her. As to contacting her husband they each have a cell phone but I DON'T have his cell phone number. They had a land line but it has been disconnected. I have his old email address, but the account has suddenly been suspended. On-line detective work gave me only an address... I guess sending a letter is my only way of getting in touch with him.
LucreziaBorgia Posted July 26, 2007 Posted July 26, 2007 I guess sending a letter is my only way of getting in touch with him. Make sure you send it via certified mail with a return receipt. The only person allowed to get that letter and sign for it will be him, and you will get a notice when he does.
whichwayisup Posted July 26, 2007 Posted July 26, 2007 He's caught up in the affair fog, and can't see/think straight. He hasn't a clue what this OW is really like outside the affair box as right now it's about the good stuff...NOT the bad and the ugly stuff... I agree with LB. Also, if you can afford it, why not get a PI?
child_of_isis Posted July 26, 2007 Posted July 26, 2007 Go to the house. Armed with the e-mails. In case he was not the one who sent them. On-line detective work gave me only an address... I guess sending a letter is my only way of getting in touch with him.
East of Jupiter Posted July 27, 2007 Posted July 27, 2007 [quote=! This could give you some control over the situation. Normally I hedge on the side of not contacting the OW/OM's BS - HOWEVER, in your case, I think you should. Since it sounds like she opened the gates by trying to manipulate you into leaving your H then I think it is only fair that YOU contact HER H. Call him and introduce yourself, explain what is going on and how you found out. Ask him whether he was the one who contacted you. Tell him that you are willing to send him the emails that you received. Tell him you think the emails are coming from her and that you think she is trying to manipulate you, etc. Be completely open with him. She needs to face the music too if she is the one who revealed it to you. I have two train of thoughts on this. I wholly agree that a betrayed partner needs to be made aware of what is going on. On the other hand, you never know what that other person will do. It is something to consider. What if the man gets violent and comes after your husband?
East of Jupiter Posted July 27, 2007 Posted July 27, 2007 [quote= As to contacting her husband they each have a cell phone but I DON'T have his cell phone number. They had a land line but it has been disconnected. I have his old email address, but the account has suddenly been suspended. On-line detective work gave me only an address... I guess sending a letter is my only way of getting in touch with him. I'm sorry to hear of your situation. Your husband is being a total dillweed. That is a fact. My one advice to you is this: put a stop to it ASAP. The nemesis of affairs is reality. The longer he is able to play tag with the OW, the bigger the chance the affair will only get deeper. You must draw a line and be prepared to stand by that. But don't threaten until you are ready to go through with it or it will only backfire. He will continue this until you or the OW say enough or he leaves. I advise you to educate yourself about affairs as much as possible. It is not what most people think and certainly not what the cheaters tell you. They are in affairyland and their thought process surrounds their genetalia at this point. Oh they may say it is something special but from my years of experience it is only special while they don't have to deal with the reality of their actions and the pain of their families. Here is my favorite article which helped me out tremendously. It is a bit long but worth the read: http://www.smartmarriages.com/glass.html
enoughisenough Posted July 27, 2007 Posted July 27, 2007 "He has said he wants to keep her in his life, in case we don't work out."He sure doesn't have much faith in your relationship, does he? This is sad. Any kids yet? Cause if not, this doesn't sound like a good marriage to spawn them in. It really sounds like he is just staying with you UNTIL he finds someone else.
enoughisenough Posted July 27, 2007 Posted July 27, 2007 BTW, don't you find it kind of creepy and odd that some stranger has your email address? Even if it's the OW, how did she get your email address????
Author Life in a nutshell Posted July 27, 2007 Author Posted July 27, 2007 My husband and I both travel a lot. This girl works for one of his company's vendors and they met in Philadephia at a conference in January. The relationship has grown from that meeting into what it is today. We live in Texas; she in Georgia. This is what makes it so difficult to contact her husband. I do find it extremely creepy that they have my email. However, they emailed me on my work email, which is not hard to find. All that would have to do is Google my name in full and it would bring them to my contact information. The glory of the internet, huh! Upate: Last night we went to therapy. Again, she confronted him on the fact that he's not giving 100% to us by keeping her in the picture and again, he crossed his arms and said he disagreed. We now have a timeline in place---by that, I mean---he has to be completely out of our house by next Saturday. We have to go out of town together today, which puts an odd wrinkle on the situation, but so be it. We have another session on Monday, but mainly to talk about how to do this separation and how to handle what comes next. On Wednesday we are going to go to his mother and tell her what has happened and why. He will be staying with her for the time being. I am heartsick and can't stop crying. I can't believe we came to this. We always seemed so strong. I can't believe that the man I loved---still love---has chosen this over our life together. I know there were other issues and I was willing to work on those with them. I thought we WERE working on them... I wish I could hate him. I really do. Damn.
Lynna Posted July 27, 2007 Posted July 27, 2007 I am so sorry that he is treating you like this! But it is okay not to hate him. Don't let his behavior turn you into someone you are not. You don't want to be a hateful person, because that is not a happy person. Don't give him permission to control your feelings. I know it is hard and not fair that you are being put through this without wanting it, but you are doing the right thing! I know you feel terrible right now but you will be able to get through this. Make sure you do things with friends and do things that make you feel good about yourself during this rough time. It will help you get through it all. You should also start talking to a lawyer to figure out how to make this a legal separation. You want all the information available to you right now just in case. I hope things don't get messy for you, but I know they can very quickly so it would be a good idea to find out everything you can do to make sure that you are protected during this process. I would definitely send the letter to the house. Talk to the post office and find out how you can send it so that only the person it is addressed to can receive it as LB suggested. Maybe you could also use a messenger service, or a PI as WWIU suggested. In any case, I think in your situation letting her H know is the right thing to do. It seems clear that she and your H want to be together. If her H knows then at least he can make sure that he does not get wrung through the wringer when she tries to divorce him as so often happens to men.
whichwayisup Posted July 27, 2007 Posted July 27, 2007 Anger comes after the saddness...So, cry and get it out...I know you're hurting badly right now. Maybe you should talk to your marriage counsellor on your own, too. Could help you cope with this abit better, as well as still posting here. Many other members can help you, so you're not alone in this.. I can bet ya that your H is still having that 'grass is greener' fog in his head and until he WAKES the F up, this is how it is. That's why he can't/won't put in the effort to save the marriage, make it work because he is still addicted to the feelings that the OW brings out in him. Yeah, it's not 'love' as it's based on just feelings - not REAL life.
Tomcat33 Posted July 27, 2007 Posted July 27, 2007 I'm afraid it sounds like he is in love with her. He prob won't cut contact with her even if he has to lie to you about it. Kick him out and let him come to his senses feeling he has lost you...it's the only way he will willingly cut her out. If you have to force him to do it he will only resist you more and you might push him to lie to you more. But if he sees you are serious about the outcome of your marriage that is going to be the wakeup call he needs. You have no bargaining porwer right now you are telling him stay but we have to get back on track yet he is NOT doing his share to get back on track. Keeping in contact with her is NOT doing his all. And this bit about her being his emotional sounding board, my goodness if he admits that to you there is NO WAY he is cutting her out unless you mean business. You need to wake him up in a harsh way. Asking won't work, clearly. Sorry for your situation I can only imagine how devestating it must feel.
outofdarkness Posted July 27, 2007 Posted July 27, 2007 I've been reading these posts for awhile now and have gotten a lot of good advice from them. This is my first post, so please bear with me... About 4 months ago my H told me that he wasn't sure he was happy anymore. (we've been married 3 yrs, together 7) I took that as a huge wakeup call and started looking at how stale and boring we'd collectively become and he and I both started working to bring back excitement and romance to our marriage... before anything really bad happened. Or so I thought. Still, the thought lingered that things weren't quite right... and then one day, about 2 months ago, I received an email. The email was from someone I didn't know but it had my husband's name in the subject line. I opened it and found a copy of the OW's phone bill... showing all the calls the two of them had made that month. And, there were a lot of them. (She lives in a different state). I didn't even know this woman existed before that minute... but he was calling her every morning on the way to work, every day at lunch, and for at least 1-2 hours after work each day (while telling me he was working late those evenings). I have to travel quite a bit for work, and he would call her those nights when I was away and talk to her for hours--one night for five hours, deep into the night. He was working that day, so I called him and confronted him. Of course he denied it at first, but after a very tearful confrontation, he told me she was "nothing" to him, "just a friend" and that he saw how harmful this friendship was to us and our future and he would end it that day. A week later I got another email from this anonymous person (still don't know if it is her or her husband. Yes, she too is married) telling me it was still going on. I sat on this information for awhile, asking him if they were still talking. He of course said they weren't.. he had ended it to "make things right" with us again. Annnndddd.. finally, after I received even more emails, I confronted him again and he said yes, they're still at it. We are going to MC and we've made a lot of positive changes---trying to reconnect with old friends, trying to find new interests we can share, trying to bring back more passion and romance. Yet, the one thing he won't do is stop talking to this woman. He has said that she is his "safety net." He has said he wants to keep her in his life, in case we don't work out. I have talked to her and asked her to please respect the fact that he and I want to work things out and have asked HER to be the bigger person and break things off. She told me she depends on him for her happiness and won't do it. He's now telling me that he needs her for emotionally stability and that she's keeping him grounded while he and I work through our issues. To me, he's in an emotional affair with this woman. No matter what the therapist tells him regarding this--telling him that in order for us to heal, my H has to start giving of himself emotionally to me and not to her---my H refuses to budge. He keeps telling me to give him more time to end it with her. I've never been a doormat. But, I do love him and I wanted to make things work. Now I am seeing that he's not 100% committed to us. He may say he loves me. He may say he wants us to work out... but his very actions are showing me something so different. That he wants HER. That he wants his cake and he wants to eat it, too. I just feel like an idiot. Duped and stupid. I have put so much energy and effort into trying to fix US. I should have just been fixing ME. This is all so surreal to me. I feel like I'm watching someone else's life spin out of control around me. My world has slipped through my fingers... and I can't do a darn thing to fix it. I guess I just wanted to vent and to hear from others who have been there... please, oh please, tell me that it is possible to heal yourself after something like this... Yep...been there, done that...You are so right to be suspicious...Your H should not have ANYTHING to do w/ the OW!! That's what NC means..Complete...NO CONTACT!!!!!!!!! He's giving you the run around! Let me know if I can help anymore. I've been on LS for awhile now...Most know me as OOD...My story is extreme, but I do try to give good advice and sopport...Good luck and God Bless!
Trialbyfire Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 My husband and I both travel a lot. This girl works for one of his company's vendors and they met in Philadephia at a conference in January. The relationship has grown from that meeting into what it is today. We live in Texas; she in Georgia. This is what makes it so difficult to contact her husband. I do find it extremely creepy that they have my email. However, they emailed me on my work email, which is not hard to find. All that would have to do is Google my name in full and it would bring them to my contact information. The glory of the internet, huh! Upate: Last night we went to therapy. Again, she confronted him on the fact that he's not giving 100% to us by keeping her in the picture and again, he crossed his arms and said he disagreed. We now have a timeline in place---by that, I mean---he has to be completely out of our house by next Saturday. We have to go out of town together today, which puts an odd wrinkle on the situation, but so be it. We have another session on Monday, but mainly to talk about how to do this separation and how to handle what comes next. On Wednesday we are going to go to his mother and tell her what has happened and why. He will be staying with her for the time being. I am heartsick and can't stop crying. I can't believe we came to this. We always seemed so strong. I can't believe that the man I loved---still love---has chosen this over our life together. I know there were other issues and I was willing to work on those with them. I thought we WERE working on them... I wish I could hate him. I really do. Damn. I'm sorry this is happening to you. When you love and trust someone, and this is what they give back, it's so incredibly debilitating. Know you're not alone with others who've had wayward spouses. In my case now, wayward ex-Husband. Divorce has been finalized. So here is where you have to start some work. Remember, he's no longer is thinking rationally so any decision you make, make for yourself. Not only is he not thinking rationally, he's only focused on himself. Get your separation agreement drafted up by legal counsel. No verbal agreements. Don't let him play with your sympathies or emotions. Be tough. You're gambling with your future. When the hard facts of the separation agreement hit him in the face, he may fold and come back to you. Either way, don't rely on that. From here on in, you are reliant on yourself and anyone you choose to employ, such as your legal counsel or financial consultant. I'm addressing solely this component because it sounds like the emotional aspects are being covered by everyone else. Take care of YOURSELF and if you have any, your children.
silktricks Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 All I can say is what I personally would do in these circumstances. I would quit trying to fix things with my husband, and instead take care of myself. Once you are taking care of yourself, and have regained you, then if he returns you will be able to decide if you still want him. You may very well no longer have the same feelings. His loss.
outofdarkness Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 All I can say is what I personally would do in these circumstances. I would quit trying to fix things with my husband, and instead take care of myself. Once you are taking care of yourself, and have regained you, then if he returns you will be able to decide if you still want him. You may very well no longer have the same feelings. His loss. Good post...That is really key...Take care of yourself...Can't say it enought times..
East of Jupiter Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 ((( ))) Sometimes what looks like a terrible thing today turns out to be the first step to a better place in life. It hurts even when we know we are doing the right thing. If you love this man and think it can be worked on, don't lose hope. So many cheaters leave their spouses thinking they will live happily ever after with their lover only to find out the lover is nowhere near leaving their own spouse and it really was all a fantasy. Or, they finally figure out that the person of their dreams is not who they thought they were. In the meantime, work on you. Be kind to yourself.
outofdarkness Posted July 29, 2007 Posted July 29, 2007 ((( ))) Sometimes what looks like a terrible thing today turns out to be the first step to a better place in life. It hurts even when we know we are doing the right thing. If you love this man and think it can be worked on, don't lose hope. So many cheaters leave their spouses thinking they will live happily ever after with their lover only to find out the lover is nowhere near leaving their own spouse and it really was all a fantasy. Or, they finally figure out that the person of their dreams is not who they thought they were. In the meantime, work on you. Be kind to yourself. YES..I have thought and said this so many times in so many different situations...It takes ALOT of pain to get to the good stuff...IMHO..The strongest and happiest people are those that have had to endure the most unimaginable pain in life...
greenman57 Posted August 5, 2007 Posted August 5, 2007 Hi Life in a nutshell Your post resonated with me as it is somewhat similar to my situation, except my wife is the WS, and it was a full blown relationship. I can't believe how deeply she has fallen for this MM that she is prepared to leave our marriage of 3 years. She previously gave MM ultimatum to leave his wife and kids. He said he would. But then changed his mind citing the kids as the reason why he had to stay, he told her he has no love for his wife. My wife told me all this at the beginning of June, and we have since done counselling which resulted in her saying that she was wrong to marry me and that she now has a new concept of love and that this MM is it. So that would appear to be that. (hurting has eased a bit since June) We are living in the same apartment and I am probably being too supportive she has bouts of tears and crying and then she says something to me like. Maybe my feelings will change and you and me can go back together. She is in contact with the MM unbeknown to his wife. Which leads to my confused state, I know the bit about not being a doormat etc My main point Life in a nutshell is to bear in mind that he might want to come back in a few months time and how will you feel at that stage/ Will you want him back ? I don't know what way I feel. But my head says get out and my heart is rapidly agreeing with that sentiment. Anyway I didn't mean to hijack your thread. I hope you are ok and taking care of yourself.
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