annabelle75 Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 So ...... I have been dating this guy for a few months and things have been going well. He was admittedly initially a rebound guy. I was very honest with him about the fact I was just out of a failed relationship and wanted to have some no pressure fun. But over the last few months we have gotten really close. At one point I freaked a bit because he was dropping the "L" word, but when I told him I wasn't ready for that, he was ok with it and has been great ever since. Things have been moving nice and slow and I've been genuinely happy, which is a nice change in my dating life. This week I think we've hit a stumbling point. I'm not sure exactly how to react so I would love some advice with others who have experienced something similar. Earlier this week I recieved a substantial raise that I have been working very hard for this past year. I was thrilled about it and ofcourse wanted to celebrate with him this weekend. When I first told him about it he acted excited for me and everything was fine. But tonight when I asked if we could go out to dinner this weekend to celebrate he said, "there is something that has been bothering me and i think we should talk about it." Ugh ...... he then told me that with my new raise I now make more than twice as much as he does and he doesn't feel very comfortable with that and would rather I didn't talk about it. My initial reaction was to get really quiet and think back to the past few days and try to figure out if I had done something wrong. Perhaps he thought I was bragging to make him feel bad or something like that. But honestly I really haven't talked about it much at all. I've had too many other things going on to really talk about it. So, I then started get mad that he wanted me to not be happy about my raise because he felt insecure about how much money I made. He made me feel like I was wrong to want to celebrate. Instead of starting a fight I just stayed really quiet. He then apologized and said he probably shouldn't have said anything. No I am just really concerned that this could be a real problem. I've worked really hard to get were I am at and I don't think I should have to pretend I am not happy about succeeding. I don't rub it in his face or talk about it ever really so I don't think its anything I am saying or doing. He said "as a guy" it bothered him that I made more money. Yikes. Is this a hug red flag or should I just let it go for now?
AriaIncognito Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 This is a tough one. In our society, men generally want to feel like they are the ones providing in the relationship. The whole gender role thing. Some men are intimidated by successful women, and seems you've found one. This could be a major dealbreaker for the relationship. You by no means should pretend to be anything other than happy over what you've accomplished for yourself. It's a great thing to be recognized and accomplished in our careers. I one dated a guy that made less than half my salary. It didn't bother him, to be honest, be we ended up being pretty incompatible in the area of money. He didn't seem to care much about earning it/saving it while I'm all about planning for my future and building a nestegg for myself and my potential family. So, while this might not be the be all end all, do a little delving into him. Do your spending/saving goals match? Are you on two different plains? Etc. Personally, I feel if a partner can't be supportive, then it probably isn't the right partner for me.
Star Gazer Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 Congrats on the raise! Good job! I understand that making less than you could be a blow to his ego. I would understand if he wasn't terribly thrilled with the fact that you make more than he does, but the fact he asked you not to talk about it is a red flag IMO. Is he not happy professionally? Does he love what he does, or is it just a means to a paycheck?
Author annabelle75 Posted July 19, 2007 Author Posted July 19, 2007 Personally, I feel if a partner can't be supportive, then it probably isn't the right partner for me. That is the real issue for me. I'm not really concerned with how much money he makes. He is very responsible with the money he makes and until today I never even considered it an issue. I just want him to be supportive and not make me feel bad about it. I had a subtle flash back of how my ex-husband never let me wear high heels becasue he didn't want me to be taller than he was. I now wear fabulous 4 inch heels every chance I get. Is he not happy professionally? Does he love what he does, or is it just a means to a paycheck? He does not care much for his job. He spent ten years in the military until he had to leave becasue of problems with his ex wife . He now supports two kids on his own. He works a manual labor job that he isn't very proud of. He actually got a raise and promotion a few weeks ago. I took him out to celebrate and made sure he knew how happy I was for him. Is it wrong I should expect the same? I try to be sensitive to how others feel but I just don't think is a case were I should hide my excitement. I am genuinely concerned now, but not so much that I want to turn and run. In the past I have been guilty of fleeing at the first sign of trouble, so I'd like to give him a chance. Maybe I should encourage him to find a job that he loves as much as I love mine. I guess the whole honeymoon phase of dating is coming to an end and it's getting more "real." He said he felt bad about bringing it up because he knew it upset me and I had a right to be happy about the raise. Maybe that will be th end of it. Only time will tell, I guess.
Enema Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 It's a lot harder to control a woman when you know she doesn't need you.
Author annabelle75 Posted July 19, 2007 Author Posted July 19, 2007 It's a lot harder to control a woman when you know she doesn't need you. That is a good point and what I am hoping is not the case here.
Krytellan Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 He may never be OK with it and the decision what to do may not be yours. Just consider that the control of keeping things cool may not be yours here. He may leave before you have any say. For men who are bothered by this, it is a powerful feeling of inferiority... and one you may never relate to or understand.
jcster Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 It's a lot harder to control a woman when you know she doesn't need you. Amen. How dare he make you feel bad for your success? Small, small man.
Trialbyfire Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 I have yet to meet a man who is genuinely supportive and happy about female successes which exceed their own. While some might not be threatened by it, not too many encourage further success.
burning 4 revenge Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 I have yet to meet a man who is genuinely supportive and happy about female successes which exceed their own. While some might not be threatened by it, not too many encourage further success. It isn't that the guy isn't happy for you, it's that in the context it's emasculating. These kinds of psychological barriers that have been in place since the beginning of recorded history can't be erased so easily in a couple of generations. And women are as guilty of it as men..generally women look for partners who make at least as much as they do..not always, but usually.
Trialbyfire Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 It isn't that the guy isn't happy for you, it's that in the context it's emasculating. These kinds of psychological barriers that have been in place since the beginning of recorded history can't be erased so easily in a couple of generations. And women are as guilty of it as men..generally women look for partners who make at least as much as they do..not always, but usually. Is self-esteem so fragile that every success of a partner is viewed against self? Is it always a competition, regardless if the other party isn't playing?
Turquoise Waters Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 So you two specifically told each other how much you make? Big mistake to talk about this when you're dating. I mean, you can usually estimate what they make by their profession and what kind of house/condo they rent/own and in what area....How does he know that you will be making over twice what he makes? This is too specific of information for him to know. He sounds like a jerk, and you're better off without him, but if you're ever asked by a bf/gf "How much do you make a year" you politely decline to answer. Now you know for next time, this guy is over with and done with, you can do better. Nothing wrong with saying 'hey, I got a promotion or a raise from a big project' because that is important in your life, and your Significant Other should want to support you.
Star Gazer Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 I have yet to meet a man who is genuinely supportive and happy about female successes which exceed their own. While some might not be threatened by it, not too many encourage further success. I agree. I'm currently dating two different guys (casually, nothing serious-serious yet). One is a teacher who is constantly making comments about my successes and salary. His comments sound as though he is threatened by it, and feels inadequate in comparison. The other is a business owner who makes triple what I do. He's the first guy I feel truly comfortable talking about my successes with. He is excited and thrilled for me when I mention an accomplishment - his eyes light up. But that could be because he's excited to be around an ambitious woman who still will never "beat him" with dollar signs.
Trialbyfire Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 I agree. I'm currently dating two different guys (casually, nothing serious-serious yet). One is a teacher who is constantly making comments about my successes and salary. His comments sound as though he is threatened by it, and feels inadequate in comparison. The other is a business owner who makes triple what I do. He's the first guy I feel truly comfortable talking about my successes with. He is excited and thrilled for me when I mention an accomplishment - his eyes light up. But that could be because he's excited to be around an ambitious woman who still will never "beat him" with dollar signs. You and I appear to be in the same zone for cynicism. No more dating unless it's completely casual with zero expectations of a relationship. My personal freedom has become far more important.
Author annabelle75 Posted July 19, 2007 Author Posted July 19, 2007 So you two specifically told each other how much you make? Big mistake to talk about this when you're dating. I mean, you can usually estimate what they make by their profession and what kind of house/condo they rent/own and in what area....How does he know that you will be making over twice what he makes? This is too specific of information for him to know. He sounds like a jerk, and you're better off without him, but if you're ever asked by a bf/gf "How much do you make a year" you politely decline to answer. Now you know for next time, this guy is over with and done with, you can do better. Nothing wrong with saying 'hey, I got a promotion or a raise from a big project' because that is important in your life, and your Significant Other should want to support you. I don't necessarily think its a big mistake. Even though its not something I would discuss on the first date, after dating for a few months I think it is a topic that shoudl eb discussed in some manner. What happened if ii was never discussed and things got really serious and then he found out how much I make and pulled the same crap he did yesterday? I'd rather know this kind of stuff sooner rather than later.
Turquoise Waters Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 I don't necessarily think its a big mistake. Even though its not something I would discuss on the first date, after dating for a few months I think it is a topic that shoudl eb discussed in some manner. What happened if ii was never discussed and things got really serious and then he found out how much I make and pulled the same crap he did yesterday? I'd rather know this kind of stuff sooner rather than later. I disagree. I just don't think it's necessary to discuss how much $ you make.
Star Gazer Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 You and I appear to be in the same zone for cynicism. No more dating unless it's completely casual with zero expectations of a relationship. My personal freedom has become far more important. Eh, I hope I don't sound cynical - just realistic. I'm truly a hapless romantic, really. But I keep my eyes open and my feet on the ground.
Trialbyfire Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 Eh, I hope I don't sound cynical - just realistic. I'm truly a hapless romantic, really. But I keep my eyes open and my feet on the ground. Well, I'm feeling decidedly cynical today about love/romance and what it really means. More an endorphin-high, rather than anything meaningful.
daphne Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 annabelle, I have had this problem too. A male friend of mine once told me, out of the blue, that I need to find a man who is very secure with himself. He also said there aren't many. I thought he meant because of the money, but he meant that women who are self confident and know who they are are intimidating. But the money has been an issue as well. Chalk it up to men are highly insecure and we havne't evolved all that much. They do have an urge to feel superior, however that is. They are competitive. It's not your fault, and ultimately, if it makes the guy not want to celebrate your success, I"m afraid it's probably not going to work out.
barbarella Posted July 29, 2007 Posted July 29, 2007 I've come across this in a slightly different way - when I first met my ex we were in college, and I was studying to go into a field that I expected would lead to a substantial paycheque. At that time, when we were both students and it was theoretically possible, he was okay with it. Now that we've both been working for a while and I make substantially more than he does, we've ended up breaking up mostly because he wants me to change my job for something less lucrative. Unfortunately there does seem to be something that some men (and to be honest, I *never* expected this from my ex) find difficult about being with someone who earns more than they do. It also seems to be more acceptable for a man to ask his female partner to change her job or somehow otherwise let him be more successful. If he's not comfortable with this, and it's not something that you're willing to change, is there any likelihood that this is going to become less of an issue for him?
electric_sheep Posted July 30, 2007 Posted July 30, 2007 I would be absolutely delighted if my girlfriend made twice as much money as me. That's all I'm going to say.
electric_sheep Posted July 30, 2007 Posted July 30, 2007 I've come across this in a slightly different way - when I first met my ex we were in college, and I was studying to go into a field that I expected would lead to a substantial paycheque. At that time, when we were both students and it was theoretically possible, he was okay with it. Now that we've both been working for a while and I make substantially more than he does, we've ended up breaking up mostly because he wants me to change my job for something less lucrative. Unfortunately there does seem to be something that some men (and to be honest, I *never* expected this from my ex) find difficult about being with someone who earns more than they do. It also seems to be more acceptable for a man to ask his female partner to change her job or somehow otherwise let him be more successful. If he's not comfortable with this, and it's not something that you're willing to change, is there any likelihood that this is going to become less of an issue for him? This is so insane it's hard for me to wrap my head around. Are these men a bit older? In their 40's and 50's? Or are these men in their 20's and 30's too? This sounds like a bad Mary Tyler Moore episode or something. Maybe I'm just so secure with myself because of the huge size of my tool, lol.
barbarella Posted July 31, 2007 Posted July 31, 2007 electric sheep, I really wish that I was talking about a 50 year old - that would make sense. My experience is with someone who is in his earliest of his 30s, and is as well educated and reasonably liberal as could be expected from anyone, really...
alphamale Posted July 31, 2007 Posted July 31, 2007 He said "as a guy" it bothered him that I made more money. Yikes. Is this a hug red flag or should I just let it go for now? I think he is being honest and up front. Its a normal reaction for a man. I would not like it either. You really need to be with someone who is on the same economic level as you, or higher.
JCD Posted July 31, 2007 Posted July 31, 2007 Have you tried to tell him why you're with him in the first place? Like he makes your life more stable or better, happier, etc. He probably thinks that you might leave him if he's not that successful. So maybe if you explained to him that there are non-monetary ways in which he makes you happy then his insecurities would go away.
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