Does 'going back' every actually work ?

[SueBee3490]

I still don't get where the punishment issue comes in though, or what that is about. I mean how could the BS punish the WS by taking him back? That part has yet to be explained by you/lookingforward.

 

I think what she/he means by "punishing" the WS by taking them back. It's if you take back your WS and try to work on the marriage but keep rehashing the affair/s over and over and try to make them feel guilty. In my case, this is exactly what I was doing every day. I would throw his cheating in his face in one way or another....whether if he was checking his messages on his cell phone and I'd say "what are you looking for, a call from one of your whores?" or if there was any type of cheating/infidelity on tv, I'd throw up his cheating to him and I do mean all the time. This was when I knew I couldn't go on with him because I just couldn't get over what he'd done. I'd sit on the fence over 4 years thinking one minute I couldn't live without him and the next being so angry at him that I wanted him gone this minute. Was I punishing him by bringing up his cheating? I probably was - I think I was doing it to try and make him see how much heartache he had caused me and I didn't want him to forget it but it wasn't helping our relationship at all. I was so consumed with anger and pain I couldn't see straight.

 

So I think what she means by the BS punishing the WS by taking them back is by saying they will work on the marriage/relationship but not really being able to do it. Many times when I'd bring up my H's cheating to him, he would say "you are just trying to tell me I'm worthless". I'd say I'm not "making" you feel anyway, I'm telling you the facts of what you did and if you feel like crap because of it, then it's "you" telling yourself that, not me.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Sue, honey, you went on like that for 4 years??? My God. I understand about the anger and the desire to feel heard. Was it the trust you couldn't get back or the anger that you couldn't get over? I would imagine that harboring that much anger for that long would physically and emotionally damaging to a person (meaning yourself moreso than the spouse). I know that one of the BS's on this board has a drop dead date for herself. If I can't feel that I'm moving along by this point then I will leave.

 

I don't remember you story, but I'm looking forward to having the time to read your past posts.

[dauphine]

Life is TOO short for that. There are SO many peoople out there so many loving people who just want to be with another human being who can and will be caring enough not to abuse the union that is formed, why would anyone in their right mind stay with a someone they have to doubt for the rest of their days if they are there because they really love them or because it's just more comfortable for them.

 

Beautifully said....

[Tomcat33]

Advising other women to give up their hard earned lives and that of their children because YOU couldn't forgive is a frame of mind that I don't particularly understand. YOU may never be able to trust the WS (if you had one) but I beileve that there are people here who have been able to get past it in their own situations. People who have ACTUALLY been in the situation before. I don't understand why you are so adamant about the fact that other people should hold your views in their own lives, it isn't as if they are hurting anyone other than themselves? I do understand that that was the point of this thread to begin with though and why it was placed on this board. If one OW can be saved the pain of a BS taking back a WS then I suppose it was worth it!

 

I still don't get where the punishment issue comes in though, or what that is about. I mean how could the BS punish the WS by taking him back? That part has yet to be explained by you/lookingforward.

 

I am not advising anyone do anything. I am stating my philosophy on why I THINK cheaters shouldn't be taken back, and I am backing it up with some reasoning as to how I concluded what I did so that you are not left out in the dark with a simple JUST DON'T DO IT IT'S WRONG. I don't have the kind of power to influence others in their decisions, so when I post my opinion is it simply that. If someone wants to take it on board or reject it it is entirely up to them, as is EVERY decision we make for ourselves in our lives.

 

Having said that...

 

Advising other women to give up their hard earned lives and that of their children because YOU couldn't forgive is a frame of mind that I don't particularly understand.

 

 

Listen no one is saying to give up your life or your children, what I am saying is give up the man that is not person the person that had proven to be, he has become someone not worth the trouble. You can still be a mother a caring homeowner and a great neighbour WITHOUT the man in your life. So don't give me material excuses for why you should stay with a cheater. If your lifestyle is so important to you then why are you so distraught that your H went off with another woman, ego? What will the Jones' say? Because then it's not the "losing the MAN" you are upset about it is the losing the LIFE. That's the impression I get when you put it in those terms.

 

Now if you say to me why should a woman give up the love of her life, the one and only man her best friend and her true companion because he made a mistake, that's a different story. Then I would say, well you have two ways of looking at it:

 

Because he gave up on you and decided to move on to someone new while he was still with you and your family.

 

or

 

Yes he is all that so you should fight for what you have with this man.

 

Then that bring us to Sue's point.

 

Even if in all this mess that is the one and only reason why you want to hang on to him, then the A doesn't stop at when it ended, the A's aftermath continues and lingers with you and your marriage for a very long time to come. The issues that were plaguing your marriage before the A get compounded and added on to that are the many trust and communication issues that happen after an A. It's all so raw how could you come out with something good? I mean c'mon! Why would anyone in their right mind want to endure that? To be true to their vows? Love? Dedication? Why would you want to devote all those things to someone who clearly took all those things and walked all over them like dirty floor mat.

 

I think the answer is simple, fear. People want to at least try because they are fearful of having to start all over again. Some people only knew one partner some married young they only know one relationship so it can be am incredibly scary thought to have to go out into the big old bad world and start from scratch again. It's not about having a big heart and forgiving, if it were like that then why is it so many couples never even reach the forgiveness stage, they realise they have to bail before it even gets a chance to reach any sort of understanding because it is too damn hard. And let's face it HOW DO YOU look at your partner the same way after knowing they were touching, courting, LOVING, spending time with someone else?

 

The punishment thing is that - taking a cheater back is NOT punishment, kicking them out and proceeding with cutting them out of your life IS punishment. That's the kind of thing people respond to, having their lives shaken up. And I'll tell you why I am certain of that, it is because it is the exact same thing that people fear when they are cheated on, LOSING EVERYTHING. So in the end both parties stay together out of fear. Our of neediness not what's right for each individual in order to grow.

 

I think a couple who parts company after an A has a much higher success rate in actually reuniting again eventually down the line when they are in a better frame of mind and when they can actually work on improvement from what they have learned being apart. A BS panics and and especially the cheater who does not want to be thrown out, and so the BS takes back the cheater right away so there is no major disruption to EITHER's lives. But the disruption is VERY MUCH there for the BS. The cheater didn't LEARN anything he/she didn't feel what it's like to lose something valuable to him/her, all he/she learned was WOW I literally got away with murder and I am right back where I started, sure I have to endure some poor treatment but my comfort level balances out considering I am still the king/queen of my castle. And this is why so many especially men refuse to conform to the new dynamic, after a little while THEY FORGET what happened and expect you to do so as well. And CAN'T for the life of them understand why you are not letting the past go! But you create this ambiance, by in your actions allowing him to come back into your life and saying I forgive you, and yet you are not. Rightly so you can't, it's next to impossible to forgive at the beginning.

[Lookingforward]

Yes, Suebee, that is what I meant by 'punishing' - the constant bringing it up rather than moving ahead and working with what is 'now' - and for the curious, not going by anything 'reported back' by anyone - just from the tone of some posts I've seen on this board and others in this forum.

 

 

I posted the question HERE , on THIS board because it doesn't really belong anywhere else that I could see.

 

and for whomever asked earlier - no, not canadian, I am in USA, even though I'm not an american and no, I am not planning on having a relationship with a separated man. In fact, not planning on ANY relationship right now.

[angel3]

Again, I refer to certain lines in my first post on this thread:

Isn't it a bit dangerous to make these kind of generalizations? ..... It is hard to understand a situation unless you have been there yourself, so be careful not to make assumptions or sweeping generalizations about a group of people who may have somewhat similar circumstances. Just because we share the burden and pain of infidelity, I think each of our situations are as different from one another as we, as individual people, are. And I hope that you never find yourself in such a situation where you have no choice but to understand exactly what I mean, truly. I wouldn't wish this pain and heartache on anyone, ever ..... Oversimplified - perhaps because you are not a BS, you cannot understand. No, the BS only wishes it never happened in the first place. In fact, many of us grapple with whether or not we will even stay - even if the WS does come back.

On to the most recent posts:

It's not about having a big heart and forgiving

Really? Again, isn't this a sweeping generalization - made from a POV with no personal experience as a BS? I find this far from the truth - I think this is the ideal most BS's would choose to work toward, speaking from my personal experience as a BS.

 

I think a couple who parts company after an A has a much higher success rate in actually reuniting again eventually down the line when they are in a better frame of mind and when they can actually work on improvement from what they have learned being apart. A BS panics and and especially the cheater who does not want to be thrown out, and so the BS takes back the cheater right away so there is no major disruption to EITHER's lives. But the disruption is VERY MUCH there for the BS. The cheater didn't LEARN anything he/she didn't feel what it's like to lose something valuable to him/her, all he/she learned was WOW I literally got away with murder and I am right back where I started, sure I have to endure some poor treatment but my comfort level balances out considering I am still the king/queen of my castle. And this is why so many especially men refuse to conform to the new dynamic, after a little while THEY FORGET what happened and expect you to do so as well. And CAN'T for the life of them understand why you are not letting the past go! But you create this ambiance, by in your actions allowing him to come back into your life and saying I forgive you, and yet you are not. Rightly so you can't, it's next to impossible to forgive at the beginning.

Again, really?!?

This sounds more like a personal situation to me. If not, then it certainly assumes to know exactly what is happening inside the head and hearts of many different parties involved. Such insight! Such oversimplification of a complex scenario!

 

OK, I have to stop there; I could pick this apart sentence by sentence, but the simple truth is - a few sentences in, it only began to sound repetitive to me, and I can't be be bothered, because it's so loosely generalized and assumptive, that it isn't worthy of that much effort. Instead I will say my piece just to get it off my chest, and be done with this 'stirring' thread.

 

What really bothers me is this:

 

I posted the question HERE , on THIS board because it doesn't really belong anywhere else that I could see.

IMO, it doesn't belong HERE, either.

Maybe I'm wrong, but as a 'card carrying member' here, so to speak, *I* personally find this thread to be hostile, ignorant & insulting, while attempting legitimacy through a thin and transparent disguise of support.

 

The definition of the purpose of this board, given by LS:

Infidelity - In an affair or suspect your significant other? Share your experiences and concerns here.

 

In the pinned post at the top of this forum: Please Read For Infidelity Forum

Taken from this post by LS:

This particular forum is focused on discussing the problems and experiences of those who are in relationships with cheating partners, or who are themselves cheating on their partners. It is certainly appropriate for others who are not in such a situation to offer their insight to posters here; however, it is only appropriate if it's done in a respectful and helpful manner.

 

"Respectful and helpful" does not mean that you must condone or encourage a poster. It does not mean that you must agree with the poster. Respect is the key. We cannot list every conceivable sentence, phrase, or word that a person could post, and declare whether or not it is acceptable. Our rules prohibit personal attacks (see our guidelines for a definition: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/guidelines), but you must also adhere to the larger philosophy of the site, which is to provide support and assistance. If your response is not posted in that spirit, chances are it will be deemed inappropriate.

In my humble opinion, this thread is neither respectful nor helpful, nor does is provide 'assistance,' particularly as it was STARTED by the OP in this argumentative vein; it was not posted in response to a question on this subject from a BS.

 

I come here (the infidelity board) for support and encouragement - this thread does neither. To be completely honest, I'm sorry I even read it in the first place - but I only did so because I thought, based on the thread title, that a BS (like myself) was looking for support and encouragement that there could be hope. Boy was I wrong - instead, the whole thing strikes me as the 'other side' trying to justify itself - again, just my opinion. And I voice it in defense of other BSs I know are hurt by this thread as much as I am.

 

Anyone else think it sounds as if two posters are actually one person?

 

This whole thing, to me, sounds like an OW scorned. Can you please, I ask sincerely and honestly, respect the infidelity board as a supportive and comforting place, for those of us who are truly hurting, to come and feel safe?

 

We have enough pain and heartache to deal with, without needing to defend ourselves for reacting to a situation that we neither created nor asked to be in in the first place. We're working hard to survive and recover here, and it's an awful emotional place to be in. I wouldn't wish it on the devil himself. I certainly hope you are lucky enough to remain on the other side of the fence, and never really have to know what I mean without having it explained to you.

 

It's easy to make judgments, assumptions, to form opinions and theories - from the other side of the fence, when YOU have never been there. Plain and simple.

 

And I practice what I preach - I have no desire to visit the OW/OM forum - for what? So, guess what - I don't. To each, their own. And I respect that, I really do. Please - return the favor likewise?

[Tomcat33]

Angel3 I respect your opinion but I disagree I don't see this thread in a hurtful or disprespectufl vein. However if you feel that stongly about it perhaps you can invite the mods to have a look at the thread and decide if this is an apropriate thread or not for this forum.

 

In the mean time I don't think you can ask posters not to post here. I personally don't think the comments in this thread were disrespectful I think the posts are a varying in opinions and explained but not disrespectful. Unless I missed something...?

 

Furthermore I'm sorry you felt the need to disect my comments but they are my opinions you neither have to aprove of them or adhere to them and I'm sorry if they did not agree with you but that's what a forum is for, to voice different opinions.

[FireandIce]

Right! Which is EXACTLY why a cheater should never be taken back, thats what I believe and stand by. It's just not worth the work and in the long run even if you do reach some sort of recovery state and you manage to make the marriage function again, you will NEVER be able to trust the WS again, no matter how much time passes no matter how much work you put into it, the doubt will always be there you will ALWAYS wonder is he here for me or for what?

 

I really think a BS that takes back a cheater subjects themselves to more pain you are signing up for a lifetime of misery. Granted there are those people who forgive and their version of forgiving is not caring anymore, they are happy in a dead end rel, that is tainted and as long as the roof is still there, the status quo appearance, so what if the rel isn't what it could be it's better than nothing. Some people do conform. And then there are those very few that actually are happy in the long run, still not sure how they do it or what happened but I guess for a select few it;s possible. For the most part though I don't think it works.

 

Life is TOO short for that. There are SO many peoople out there so many loving people who just want to be with another human being who can and will be caring enough not to abuse the union that is formed, why would anyone in their right mind stay with a someone they have to doubt for the rest of their days if they are there because they really love them or because it's just more comfortable for them. And not to mention with the accessability of the internet now you can meet all sorts of people from all walks for life, long gone are the days where the woman has to join a bridge club to mingle with other people.

 

My theory is this:

 

Loss produces change, the IDEA of loss does not. If you accept a cheater back you are letting them know are forgiving what they did IF they repent. They now know they can do this, there is no fear of loss. But when you lose it all and suffer the REAL consecuences of your actions only THEN can you change and really allow what you did to make you a better person.

 

If fear of loss would prevent cheaters from cheating they would not have done so in the first place.

 

I just don't think a person can learn what they did through forgiveness. Look at all the criminals that are out there you think they reform when they get a slap on the wrist and are asked to pay a penalty by the court?

Or does it happen after they lose their freedom and are locked up for years in jail? Heck some people do yrs and yrs and come out and commit a crime again...The point being if you were to ask any of those criminals how many times they had been caught and warned before they ended up doing real time, chances are they will say many times. Warnings of loss never works, it's human nature to want to try again once you have gotten away with one little crime.

 

I think they need to experience a full loss to come to terms with what they did. A spouse that just spent a year or more with another person engaged in an intimate relationship, has their spouse find out about the A and allows them to stay in the comfort of the home, with the children and home cooked meals and a partner and they themselves are so confused and desperate to have this not happen again that they want to give them more but at times can't and other times can, is not a strong message that what they did IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. Because all the actions are say it IS accpetable as long as you show some remorse.

 

Loss produces growth warnings don't.

 

 

Honestly, if I would have read that 6 months ago then I might have agreed with you. Ditch the cheater, he's not worth it! was a motto of mine for years and years (probably my whole life if I think about it). That was, of course, until it happened to me. People can say over and over again what they'd do if it ever happened to them but until you're actually in that situation then you don't honestly know what you'd do. Your world as you know it comes crashing down and it's time to make some decisions. Do you go with what you thought you believed most of your life (ditch the cheater)? Do you go with your heart because this man that broke it was, at some point your best friend, your companion, your lover, your husband and the father of your children? It's a hard call when your smack dab in the middle of it so please, until you have actually experienced it you really have no idea how you'd react no matter how many times you've told yourself that you'd never stay with a cheater. Trust me.

[Lookingforward]

Neither an OP or an OW scorned - just someone trying to understand some of what I read here.

Where else would you suggest I post this question ?

An OW can't answer it, neither can a W whose spouse hasn't left and returned.

Seemed appropriate to the board to me.

If the admins can suggest a more appropriate place to pose this question then that's fine with me.

[Lookingforward]

Ohhhh, OP means original poster ?? Ignore that then , my bad = )

[Lynna]

Ohhhh, OP means original poster ?? Ignore that then , my bad = )

 

I have actually seen OP used for BOTH "original poster" and "other person". Usually you can get the context from the whole post, but sometimes even that can be hard!

[Tomcat33]

Honestly, if I would have read that 6 months ago then I might have agreed with you. Ditch the cheater, he's not worth it! was a motto of mine for years and years (probably my whole life if I think about it). That was, of course, until it happened to me. People can say over and over again what they'd do if it ever happened to them but until you're actually in that situation then you don't honestly know what you'd do. Your world as you know it comes crashing down and it's time to make some decisions. Do you go with what you thought you believed most of your life (ditch the cheater)? Do you go with your heart because this man that broke it was, at some point your best friend, your companion, your lover, your husband and the father of your children? It's a hard call when your smack dab in the middle of it so please, until you have actually experienced it you really have no idea how you'd react no matter how many times you've told yourself that you'd never stay with a cheater. Trust me.

 

 

What makes you so sure I haven't experienced it?

Is it not possible that some women walk away and have the strength to put their foot down and say NO?

 

I speak from experience. There was no children and we were not married yet but we lived together nonetheless and shared a whole life together.

I was engaged to this man. Don't make conclusions on me unless you are certain.

 

It was the best thing I could have done for myself. It was nearly 10yrs ago and he was still in contact one way or another up until 3 yrs ago wondering if I was avaialble because he wanted to rekindle what we had, filled with regret for what he did to me and to us. He begged me to take him back after it happened and it nearly killed me to say no. We had a trial reunion after 6months of being apart, and I couldn't do it, he had changed for me for ever. I changed for ever one month was enough to know what I would spend the rest of my life feeling.

 

You don't think my world came crashing down? All my hopes and dreams for a future with this man did not dissapear with the wave of one hand?

You bet it did, but you have to make choices when faced with the truth. The truth was I would have stayed with a cheater, a cheater that was a cheater to me. I don't know what his dynamic would be with other women but with me he was TRIED AND TESTED cheater. That's all I needed to know.

 

So if it ever happened again, I would act in the EXACT same way.

[child_of_isis]

The BS may be a lot of things...but I'm thinking "grateful he's back" isn't one of them.

Main Entry: grate·ful

Function: adjective

pleasing, thankful, from Latin gratus -- more at grace 1 a : appreciative of benefits received b : expressing gratitude

2 a : affording pleasure or contentment : b : pleasing by reason of comfort supplied or discomfort alleviated

 

See above - and note - with grace

 

Is that not what the BS wanted ? The return of the WS ? What am I missing ?

[child_of_isis]

I think a lot of times, W becomes bitter and "punishes" because she is being held hostage in the name of "the children". Not in all cases...but probably more often than not.

 

I know I stayed longer in a relationship than I should have due to that.

 

Yes, Suebee, that is what I meant by 'punishing' - the constant bringing it up rather than moving ahead and working with what is 'now' - .

[silktricks]

Yes a relationship really can work even after infidelity. It can be difficult in the beginning, but it totally depends upon the people involved. There are no situations that anyone can say is always or never0one way or another. Life is pretty much just a series of "it depends".