girlfriend won't kiss me :/

[g_g_g_unit]

this has been tearing me apart - my girlfriend will never initiate kissing me unless she is drunk, in which case she will want to vigorously make out. every other time i go in for a kiss, she will be stiff-mouthed and resisting and when i accuse her of not being into it, she gets defensive and upset. otherwise she'll bury her head and avoid me, and other times she will kiss me but then wipe her mouth afterwards which is just humiliating. how can i know this isn't my fault? i confronted her once and she said it's because i wet her mouth too much. does that make sense? i'm not a bulldog, i would honestly say i wet it no more than the normal human amount. and no i don't look like a bulldog either, if it means anything i would hold that by all standards i'm a good looking guy. my only theory is that it might be an ocd kind of thing, like fear of saliva contamination? fear of intimacy is another thing that comes to mind, but that's a pretty vague term and she is happy to still hug/touch me in other ways, etc. She will still happily have sex with me, though again isn't big on initiating which is understandable since she can't have an orgasm. We're on the verge of ending things anyway so it's not a huge deal, I just wanna walk away knowing it might not be my fault. I have kissed a couple of other girls in the past and have uniformly been told i'm good, but this is my first real relationship

 

thanks

[D&L]

You have to understand, everyone has different kissing styles and how they like to kiss. Some people like a little bit of tongue, some like a lot and some may not want any at all. Some people like little pecks while some people like it to be a little more wet. Maybe your girlfriend is one of those girls who dont like her kisses to be too wet and that is how you are delivering it to her. Im not saying you are slobbering all over her like a bulldog, but maybe it just is that she is that different from the other girls you've kissed and they may like your kisses like that, but it may be too much for her.

[VirtualInsanity]

You have to understand, everyone has different kissing styles and how they like to kiss. Some people like a little bit of tongue, some like a lot and some may not want any at all. Some people like little pecks while some people like it to be a little more wet. Maybe your girlfriend is one of those girls who dont like her kisses to be too wet and that is how you are delivering it to her. Im not saying you are slobbering all over her like a bulldog, but maybe it just is that she is that different from the other girls you've kissed and they may like your kisses like that, but it may be too much for her.

 

Yes. Also, your gf should have shown you how she likes it. Or at least communicated to you better besides avoidance & doing it when she's drunk.

 

Consider this relationship a learning one. Communication wasn't 100% there.

[g_g_g_unit]

You have to understand, everyone has different kissing styles and how they like to kiss. Some people like a little bit of tongue, some like a lot and some may not want any at all. Some people like little pecks while some people like it to be a little more wet. Maybe your girlfriend is one of those girls who dont like her kisses to be too wet and that is how you are delivering it to her. Im not saying you are slobbering all over her like a bulldog, but maybe it just is that she is that different from the other girls you've kissed and they may like your kisses like that, but it may be too much for her.

 

i realise that but i am barely using my tongue at this point. there has to be a line where it becomes impossible to kiss someone without *any* saliva getting on them. i guess i just don't get why she would be so into it when drunk, though she has said she only makes out when turned on and for me it's just a way of being affectionate - something i can do under any circumstances. i also realise i am a narcissist and feel frustrated when people don't comply with what i want, and so is she, so maybe neither of us is meeting a middleground; there's also the issue of me needing to feel like she's attracted to me and i see kissing as one of the most direct expressions of that. but you're right it might just not be her bag, though it would've helped if i'd known what that was

[Storyrider]

Is it possible she is shying away from the intimacy rather than the saliva? Kissing is one of the most intimate acts. Someone is literally in your face. If you're not feeling like being close, kissing is the first act to suffer.

[g_g_g_unit]

well that's why i mentioned it might be an intimacy issue. when we would have sex, she also claimed she liked it 'rough' which meant hurting me basically, and said if we didn't do it that way she would just lie there. i tried to argue that it doesn't take a psych to work out that engaging in S&M type stuff is just physically projecting what must be some kind of unconscious hatred towards guys, because i know she has been hurt a lot in the past. for her, especially in not orgasming, sex has become a purely social thing, for display .. so at parties she will make out with me because im attractive and it makes her look good but otherwise there's not a lot of action. and i know with myself fussing over physical minutae often is just a cover-up for larger issues, so she may not be lying about the saliva but it might just be a symptom of a larger intimacy issue. hmmmm :/

[halfarock]

Some girls just aren't into kissing.

[Lauriebell82]

well that's why i mentioned it might be an intimacy issue. when we would have sex, she also claimed she liked it 'rough' which meant hurting me basically, and said if we didn't do it that way she would just lie there. i tried to argue that it doesn't take a psych to work out that engaging in S&M type stuff is just physically projecting what must be some kind of unconscious hatred towards guys, because i know she has been hurt a lot in the past. for her, especially in not orgasming, sex has become a purely social thing, for display .. so at parties she will make out with me because im attractive and it makes her look good but otherwise there's not a lot of action. and i know with myself fussing over physical minutae often is just a cover-up for larger issues, so she may not be lying about the saliva but it might just be a symptom of a larger intimacy issue. hmmmm :/

 

Did you actually accuse her of having an unconscious hatred towards guys because she likes S & M stuff? If you did, I wouldn't be surprised that she is shying away from you. She is probably a little offended and pissed that your trying to be her shrink instead of her boyfriend. But anyway, if you are uncomfortable doing those then you need to tell her in a non-judgemental way.

 

That being said, I agree with everyone else in that it sounds like you guys have different sexual intimacy needs. Some girls don't like to kiss a lot. If you do, then you are going to have a conflict there. As far as kissing you while she's drunk, your inhibitions are lowered when you are drinking so you do things that you wouldn't normally do.

 

Example: My boyfriend is extremely conservative..never swears, says rude or perverted comments, ect. But when he is drunk..DAMN it's like a whole new person. He says it's just cause he doesnt care as much when he's drunk and doesn't think about it.

 

Anyway, my point is that maybe she doesn't do it just because she wants to show off, maybe she does have issues with kissing, but doesnt think about them as much when she is drinking. You said that you think the relationships is pretty much over and you are thinking of leaving, but on the other hand you are on this site asking for advice and what to do. So you must actually care somewhat about your gf. You could try talking to her about what her problems stem from. Not in a judgmental "you hate men" or "you have weird intimacy issues" but as a considerate boyfriend. Ask her if there is anything you can do to make her feel more uncomfortable if she is. Maybe if you really listen to her you can find out what the deal is.

[InLimbo2]

Just a sideline - engaging in S&M isn't projecting hatred against a gender - or even a specific person. In S&M each person is getting exactly what they want and need from the other. It only doesn't work out when one of the participants isn't really into S&M

 

Engaging in giving or receiving pain based on hatred is psychological illness - of the other gender/person in giving, and of self in receiving.

 

She may be non-orgasmic because she just doesn't know herself well enough, or because she's a true sadist or masochist and you aren't and can't provide that aspect which she needs to get there. If that's the case - it's not about 'you' as a person, but more about meshing sexual kinks.

 

 

well that's why i mentioned it might be an intimacy issue. when we would have sex, she also claimed she liked it 'rough' which meant hurting me basically, and said if we didn't do it that way she would just lie there. i tried to argue that it doesn't take a psych to work out that engaging in S&M type stuff is just physically projecting what must be some kind of unconscious hatred towards guys, because i know she has been hurt a lot in the past. for her, especially in not orgasming, sex has become a purely social thing, for display .. so at parties she will make out with me because im attractive and it makes her look good but otherwise there's not a lot of action. and i know with myself fussing over physical minutae often is just a cover-up for larger issues, so she may not be lying about the saliva but it might just be a symptom of a larger intimacy issue. hmmmm :/

[BabyPhoenix]

and other times she will kiss me but then wipe her mouth afterwards which is just humiliating. how can i know this isn't my fault? i confronted her once and she said it's because i wet her mouth too much. does that make sense?

 

I know this is frustrating for you, but I can understand her perspective. I am one of those people who is very sensitive to excess saliva. I don’t know why, its simply a quirk, but I really dislike sloppy kisses. And I often wipe my mouth afterwards. It is simply the feeling of all that saliva on my face that I find totally gross. It is not a fear of intimacy. And I do enjoy kissing, and making out. I just simply hate the way sloppy, extra saliva-ry kisses feel. Eeeewwwwyyuck!

[g_g_g_unit]

Did you actually accuse her of having an unconscious hatred towards guys because she likes S & M stuff? If you did, I wouldn't be surprised that she is shying away from you. She is probably a little offended and pissed that your trying to be her shrink instead of her boyfriend. But anyway, if you are uncomfortable doing those then you need to tell her in a non-judgemental way.

 

That being said, I agree with everyone else in that it sounds like you guys have different sexual intimacy needs. Some girls don't like to kiss a lot. If you do, then you are going to have a conflict there. As far as kissing you while she's drunk, your inhibitions are lowered when you are drinking so you do things that you wouldn't normally do.

 

Example: My boyfriend is extremely conservative..never swears, says rude or perverted comments, ect. But when he is drunk..DAMN it's like a whole new person. He says it's just cause he doesnt care as much when he's drunk and doesn't think about it.

 

Anyway, my point is that maybe she doesn't do it just because she wants to show off, maybe she does have issues with kissing, but doesnt think about them as much when she is drinking. You said that you think the relationships is pretty much over and you are thinking of leaving, but on the other hand you are on this site asking for advice and what to do. So you must actually care somewhat about your gf. You could try talking to her about what her problems stem from. Not in a judgmental "you hate men" or "you have weird intimacy issues" but as a considerate boyfriend. Ask her if there is anything you can do to make her feel more uncomfortable if she is. Maybe if you really listen to her you can find out what the deal is.

 

No I didn't accuse her of unconscious hatred; I just read something along those lines in a book and it seemed to make sense, that S&M occurs when platonic love desists. Obviously I don't want to make an overarching argument about S&M, it's just that she always is cautious about touching me "down there" and will almost never do it, yet has very little against grinding her pelvis against me until I'm in agony and then telling me I should "learn to like pain". I just don't think the desire to be hurt can stem from anything healthy psychologically and again I don't mean to offend anyone or act like I know everything, this is just based on my very limited judgement, and to the same degree I can never imagine wanting to hurt someone physically that I genuinely love, to me it would seem to stem from some insecurity. Anyway I have expressed nothing but the utmost consideracy, this relationship has lasted 8 months and if I'm here it's because it's my first and I'm still adjusting to the idea it's probably over. She wouldn't trust me with what she wanted sexually because she felt I was too "straight" as in a square or whatever. And you say some girls don't like kissing a lot but I would have thought there would be exceptions aside from when drunk. Even when having sex she'll bury her head and avoid me. But again maybe I just couldn't provide her with what she wanted though what she seemed to want was a young guy to mess around with which is what she got. And I'll be damned if you can accuse me of not trying. To put things in a little more context as well, she's 27, nearly 28, while I'm on the verge of 22, yet I was the one who had to make all attempts at communication when kinks like this arose.

[g_g_g_unit]

anyway this has probably kinda gone off-course now anyway .. i realise S&M was a really loaded term to use and something that's probably still beyond my grasp, really, so i apologise. all i wanted to know was whether her aversion to kissing me could stem from something in her that's beyond my control, seeing as i've asked her several times now over the course of relationship what that might be and have been fed different, dubious answers that incite no change in her when i act according to what she claims to want. basically, i just want to finally stop punishing myself and feeling like a reject, because i am so attracted to this girl like i can't believe (though no longer in love with, i think)

[Citizen Erased]

it doesn't take a psych to work out that engaging in S&M type stuff is just physically projecting what must be some kind of unconscious hatred towards guys

 

What the hell? I know plenty of women who enjoy rough sex, myself being one of them, and we sure as hell don't hate men. If a woman hates men she tends to not have sex with them at all. She may choose to be a lesbian. Or begin a relationship with an assortment of dildo's.

 

What's with your comments on her not being able to have an orgasm? You just haven't been able to give her one, or is it a medical condition? Anyway you said that you don't think the relationship will last much longer so I guess it doesn't really matter.

[Zona76]

First of how is your kissing technique? And have you asked her to show you how SHE likes to be kissed.

Also weigh into the factor she may not like "public displays"

In technique, I had a boyfriend once that I enjoyed kissing. The problem was he slammed his face hard on mine, tongue near choking me, using his tongue to pick my teeth and worst of all he had to have collected all his saliva for at least a half hour before that kiss.

Last ex thought exchanging saliva was sexy. I would tell him repeatedly to swallow first and the next kiss was just as wet. Tell her you want her to show you how to kiss. Tell her, "Pretend this is my first kiss. Let me feel how you want my mouth to touch yours. Show me, then tell me where I am going wrong and lets try it again."

[Cobra_X30]

I think you guys are all going down the wrong road. Gunit, your girl sounds like a head case. Go find someone normal, I doubt this has anything to do with you in particular. Ive met girls like this and they come with a bus full of baggage.