Would dress your 3 year old like a girl, because doctors claim he is "transgender"??

July 10, 2007

I read another thread about "Homosexual Children", which brings me to this.

A few months ago Barbara Walters did a documentary and interviewed parents that have "transgender" children. For those that don't know,

a transgender individual may have characteristics that are normally associated with a particular gender, identify elsewhere on the traditional gender continuum, or exist outside of it as "other," "agender," "intergender," or "third gender". Transgender people may also identify as bigender, or along several places on either the traditional transgender continuum, or the more encompassing continuums which have been developed in response to the significantly more detailed studies done in recent years.

was the exact definition, in other words, a male may act like a female and vice versa. Well, Barbara held a documentary and she followed around a couple of parents who think their children are "transgende". These one parents said that their little boy kept saying he was a little girl since he was 3, so they started dressing him in girl clothing and treating him like a girl. Now, he is ten, and totally thinks he's a little girl, but came out with a male accessory. I don't think they should have continued to let him believe that. He was 3 years old, do you really think that he would know the difference. I was upset. How could you ruin your childs life like that. The mother of this little boy says that she looks at his baby pictures now, and wishes she had her son back. I think that lady has done a horrible thing to her child, if you ask me. I want to know other peoples views on this. Do you think she should have played along with that? Do you feel she could have prevented his behavior? Would you do that to your child? Do you think her son will have a hard life?? I would like to know if anyone on here has experienced that or know anyone who has?

This really sadden's me. I feel so sorry for him.. Here is the website where you can directly read about the little boy and the other families Barbara Walters Interviewed too.

I don't believe in that, I think they ruined their sons life, by even

http://www.abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=3072518

July 10, 2007

So, are you saying you don't believe that this is a transgender child? That you think this is all a case of the mother letting her dress as a girl when she was age 3, and if she hadn't done that, "he" would have properly learned to "be a boy" and would have grown up to be a normal male adult?

The mother of this little boy says that she looks at his baby pictures now, and wishes she had her son back.

Was this in the broadcast program? Because I didn't get this from the article. The article said she rarely looks at pictures of Riley as a boy and keeps them hidden, because Riley would want to destroy them if she saw them. Wanting to look at pictures of her young child does not equate to "wishing she had her son back..." Unless that was explicitly stated somewhere else, I think you are projecting that inference. The tone I get from the article is that she wants to do whatever will best help her child find her way in life - apparently with the guidance of medical professionals - not that she is longing to have her son back.

Will it be a hard life for Riley? Of course. But I don't know that it would have been any easier to force him to live life as a boy, and expect him just to toe the line and live with it. A life of hard work to travel down the path you feel is really yours, with the support of your family, vs. a life forced to be something you truly feel is not right inside, basically being told: live with it.

So, back to my original question: you think Riley is not transgender, and her mother has "done this horrible thing" to her?

July 10, 2007

I’d be terrified of any so-called “doctor” who diagnosed a three-year-old as “Transgender.” Children of that age have no concept of defined gender roles. If left to natural play, small boys will play with dolls and small girls will play with trucks unless their homophobic parents make a big stinkin’ deal about it and frighten them into thinking they did something wrong.

There are a lot of quacks out there proportion themselves to be “experts” who basically turn naive people into their own psyche experiments as a means to test their outlandish theories and perhaps land a book deal. One such Doctor Frankenstein was named Dr. John Money ... (may he rest in Hell).

Gender Assignment is quackery at it’s finest. People (particularly vulnerable young children) should be left alone to discover and define for themselves who and what they are.

July 10, 2007

I’d be terrified of any so-called “doctor” who diagnosed a three-year-old as “Transgender.” Children of that age have no concept of defined gender roles.

According to the article, she was expected to present herself publicly as a boy, and didn't see a specialist until sometime after March 2003 - by my count, that puts her at age 6, not 3 at that point. Also, don't confuse a child's concept of gender with a person's sexual preference - if you say that young children haven't developed a sexual preference particularly early, I might be open to discussion, but children ages 3-6 certainly have begun to develop a strong sense of gender roles and their places within those roles.

If left to natural play, small boys will play with dolls and small girls will play with trucks unless their homophobic parents make a big stinkin’ deal about it and frighten them into thinking they did something wrong.

And how do you interpret her parents' actions along these guidelines? Are you saying that they should have let her dress up in girls' clothes earlier (i.e. not make a big stinkin' deal about it...) and it would have all blown over? Are you saying it was their resistance to letting him experiment with "natural play" as a girl which frightened him towards an abnormal desire to be a girl, and that he would have been normal if they hadn't made a big stinkin' deal? What would you have done differently?

Gender Assignment is quackery at it’s finest. People (particularly vulnerable young children) should be left alone to discover and define for themselves who and what they are.

I'm not disagreeing with you about leaving them to define themselves, but doesn't it sound like Riley did very much define for herself who and what she was? Her parents struggled with it for a while, but then eventually got out of the way. Her mom didn't "dress her up" at age 3, in the sense of forcing her to dress like a girl against her will. She wanted to do that, and her mother finally allowed her to "define for herself." It doesn't sound like anyone forced a course change on this child - the "diagnosis" at age 6 seemed to confirm what had already been an internal drive within her.

In your view, how was she not "left alone to discover and define" herself?

How would you have changed her history? Do you think her parents should have refused to let her assume a female gender identity? Should they have continued to require her, at age 6, to present herself as a boy? Given her behavior and her obvious turmoil, should they have NOT sought out medical/psychological advice, or ignored it as quackery? Do you believe she would be a "normal" happy 10-year old boy today if they hadn't "given in" at age 6, that she would have eventually snapped out of it if she had been required to continue to dress like a boy? Wouldn't that interfere with your idea that a child should be "left alone to discover" him/herself? What would you have done differently?

July 10, 2007

by my count, that puts her at age 6, not 3 at that point.

Still too young in a child’s developmental process to make any assumptions and/or clinical “diagnosis” to that effect. When I was six, I wanted to be an Indian and ran around the house dressed up like one, too. Played with bows & arrows instead of dolls and was a little tom boy through and through. The neighbor kids thought me a bit odd but at least my parents didn’t drag me to a shrink whereby I was diagnosed as a reincarnate and sent to live on a reservation.

Also, don't confuse a child's concept of gender with a person's sexual preference.

I’m not. And I haven’t. Which is why I used the term “gender” identity rather than “sexual” identity.

if you say that young children haven't developed a sexual preference particularly early ....

Again, I mentioned nothing about “sexual preference”. That is a completely separate issue from “gender identity.” Gender is defined by nature. Whether you be born male, female or hermaphrodite.

but children ages 3-6 certainly have begun to develop a strong sense of gender roles and their places within those roles.

Our roles and how they fit within our specific gender are defined mostly by nurture ... we learn them slowly through our parents and society, by both instruction and imitation. Including (but not limited to) the way we dress. It some cultures, it’s a perfectly acceptable for a male to wear a sarong or a kilt. And here in the West, a woman can wear pants and still be a female. It does not change the gender they were born with.

But I think we’re talking about body and/or gender dysmorphia in this particular case ... and much like anorexia or the self-mutilation of those who look in the mirror and actually believe they are ugly (because that’s what their minds see) ... I’m not convinced (yet) that this psychological condition is inherent or something we’re born with. Hating one’s own body (and/or parts) to the point of self-harm is completely different than one’s “sexual” preference or identity (as you already mentioned).

Which leaves me to question whether the greater harm is to encourage or discourage the individual’s self-hate. Particularly when it comes to the fragile psyche of a small child. And I believe it’s entirely possible that if my mother dressed me and treated me like a boy from a very early age (instead of a girl) that it would have had a greater influence on how I defined myself as I got older and discovered that I had a different physical and biological make-up than the gender I was encouraged to emulate. At best, I’d be more than just a little confused. Particularly since the most formidable years in a child’s development are between the ages of one and four.

And how do you interpret her parents' actions along these guidelines? Are you saying that they should have let her dress up in girls' clothes earlier (i.e. not make a big stinkin' deal about it...)

Well, more like parent. The mother in this case, to be exact. And, No. I must honestly admit that I would not have put my three-year-old boy in a dress. Nor gone out on my own whim and bought him a skirt and tube top. Just as I did not allow my six-year-old daughter to where her pajamas to school when she insisted. Now, if he wanted to play dress-up with his sister, I would not have made a big fuss about it.

However, if I walked into the bathroom to find my three-year-old going at his privates with a nail clipper, my first panicked thought would be that he/she had been sexually abused. And I would have sought professional council immediately rather than playing along for three more years. And if my three-year-old baby responded as clearly, intelligently and articulately as Riley’s mother claimed, I would have turned white and fainted:

"He said, 'Mom, I'm so mad at God, because God made a mistake. He made me a boy, and I'm not a boy, I'm a girl, Mom. Every night I pray that God gives me a girl body but when I wake up I'm still a boy. God won't take back his mistake, he won't make it right,'" Stephanie recalled.

...You might have to help me out here, cause I’m still wrestling with the plausibility of that one.

Who’s to say for certain whether Riley’s uniqueness is the result of nature, nurture or some combination of both. What’s important here is not what we think, the doctors think, or what one or both of Riley’s parents think ... but what Riley thinks of him/herself. Particularly since self-love and acceptance is the greatest obstacle we all face... even more so for those struggling with dysmorphia. And at only age ten, Riley has a long road ahead in his/her self discovery. It’ll be interesting to hear what Riley has to say about the process (or even add to his/her own story) twenty years from now when looking back over the journey in retrospect.

July 11, 2007

So, are you saying you don't believe that this is a transgender child? That you think this is all a case of the mother letting her dress as a girl when she was age 3, and if she hadn't done that, "he" would have properly learned to "be a boy" and would have grown up to be a normal male adult?

Of course, what do you think? A child that young cannot have the mindset to make that type of decision. Children learn how to act from how they are treated. If his parents wouldn't have treated him like a little girl, then maybe he wouldn't think that he was "born the wrong" way and feel as though he is "different".

Was this in the broadcast program? Because I didn't get this from the article. The article said she rarely looks at pictures of Riley as a boy and keeps them hidden, because Riley would want to destroy them if she saw them.

When Barbara Walters did this documentary, there were also two other sets of parents. One family had a little boy who was diagnosed with transgender at the age of 3. His mom didn't let him come out until he was five. Here's the actual clip I found it at youtube, you should watch, maybe you'll see why I don't agree.

How could anyone let a child make that type of decision? These parents are ridiculous. How does a three year old know whether or not he is a girl or a boy? By learning from their parents. People tend to be more nurturing and gentle towards little girls, but boys are expected to be tough and not cry. That's just the way our culture is. Men are masculine, mostly and woman are known to be kind-hearted beings that tend to be nurturing. I also believe this goes back to when men would go out and hunt food and build, when woman would stay home with the children and cook. That's were we get our "cultural characteristics". Now a days, things are starting to change. More and more woman are starting become the bread winners, while the fater stays home and sits.

Back to the topic, I don't think children even know what gender means? It's just sad. I know I wouldn't do that to my child. If anything, I would try do everything in my power to let him/her live a normal life as a male/female. Even if that means that I have to take away toys. In Jezz's situation, I believe his parents allowed him to act like a little girl for to long, and he finally got to the point where he started believing he was a little girl. Which is sad.

Will it be a hard life for Riley? Of course. But I don't know that it would have been any easier to force him to live life as a boy, and expect him just to toe the line and live with it.

How could he be forced when his parents didn't give him the chance to live like a little boy. He wanted girly stuff, so they gave it to him. I think he could have had a normal life. I don't think that he would have been forced to live like a girl, he's a little, what's so confusing about that? His parents confused him, and ruined his life. They were the ones who did that too him. Ex..liquor. If you drink it everyday your tolerance will get higher and higher, and eventually you will become and alcoholic. Jezz. His parents kept on telling him that he was a little girl, he kept on hearing it, and eventually when he got to the point to understand it, he believes it. Now, he even believes he was born with the wrong part. If you had a son who wanted a tutu, would you condone that, or would you put something else in his hand?

A life of hard work to travel down the path you feel is really yours, with the support of your family, vs. a life forced to be something you truly feel is not right inside, basically being told: live with it.

That child never and will never get the chance to live like a boy. It's too late. He could have been different.

So, back to my original question: you think Riley is not transgender, and her mother has "done this horrible thing" to her?

Yes, I strongly believe that his parents did that to him. Children grow and learn from what their parents teach them, and they taught Jezz and Riley that it was ok to play with girl stuff and prance around in girl clothing. Little boys like to play in their mommies shoes, but that doesn't justify me saying that all boys that do that are transgender. It's wrong!

Watch Jezz's stroy at youtube, maybe you'll see what I do, even Barbara Walters doesn't look to "happy".

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Story?id=3088298&page=3 story

July 11, 2007

So, are you saying you don't believe that this is a transgender child? That you think this is all a case of the mother letting her dress as a girl when she was age 3, and if she hadn't done that, "he" would have properly learned to "be a boy" and would have grown up to be a normal male adult?

Was this in the broadcast program? Because I didn't get this from the article. The article said she rarely looks at pictures of Riley as a boy and keeps them hidden, because Riley would want to destroy them if she saw them. Wanting to look at pictures of her young child does not equate to "wishing she had her son back..." Unless that was explicitly stated somewhere else, I think you are projecting that inference. The tone I get from the article is that she wants to do whatever will best help her child find her way in life - apparently with the guidance of medical professionals - not that she is longing to have her son back.

Will it be a hard life for Riley? Of course. But I don't know that it would have been any easier to force him to live life as a boy, and expect him just to toe the line and live with it. A life of hard work to travel down the path you feel is really yours, with the support of your family, vs. a life forced to be something you truly feel is not right inside, basically being told: live with it.

So, back to my original question: you think Riley is not transgender, and her mother has "done this horrible thing" to her?

Watch the Jezzes story

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Utpam0IGYac

July 11, 2007

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8F9CaPyQz8

here's Jezzes story!

July 11, 2007

I'm on the fence. I think that children who are that young really DO have a concept of gender, mainly because I remember having one at that time - and not one that was forced upon me by my parents. My gender concept has always been innate.

I'm just wondering.

July 11, 2007

I’ve been trying to educate myself on the subject as well, since my personal perspective on this is limited to what I know about the cognitive abilities of small toddlers. So, some things for me just aren’t adding up ... like a three-year-old making the association between a pair of clippers and self castration ... or making threats of suicide... since most children that age don’t even understand the concept unless they were exposed to those sort of things in their enviorment (i.e. parents, caretakers or older siblings making mention of such things, perhaps during argument or stressful situations) .

I have heard of people who adopted or fostered very young children who exhibited these sorts of behaviors early on, but that’s because they came from very unstable, even abusive, environments. Some have even dared to mention the possibility of Munchausen’s by proxy (on the mother’s part). But I think all the speculation only serves to further stigmatize these families, so I’ve been trying to locate some of the documented medical literature on the subject of Transgender children, trying to steer clear of the psychology aspect of it since it is the one field most vulnerable to individual, professional interpretation

So far, I’ve only found personal blogs and chat forums as well as a few publicized stories of individuals living with GID. Can’t seem to locate any clinical documentation or studies which might help to shed light on the biological predisposition of these unique individuals ... such as hormonal, chromosomal, or any other physical anomalies that may not be apparent to those of us (me) who are sorely undereducated on the subject.

Does anyone know where one can go to find this information (???)

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Would dress your 3 year old like a girl, because doctors claim he is "transgender"??

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