If your "Christian", then why do you do that?

[lonelybird]

I don't agree with "Born Again" concepts.

They believe once saved always saved. This ideal destroys what other Christians feel is right for them.

The once saved concept is You're forgiven as long as you believe.

I look at God as being my parent. I am his child. I must follow the rules or suffer the discipline. However like any good parent he is a loving one and weeps over your sufferings.

Christianity is taken apart and dissected into so many separate degrees. And sadly most don't take it any more than a belief, nor in a "Way Of Life" as it should be.

Your friend has serious issues. She's Christian by "popular demand" and not by way of life or choice.

Christian Belief should be more than Sunday only. Sad though as it's not.

Really true

[lonelybird]

I also asked why God would be so egotistical as to expect us to worship him constantly and give up human lives like the nuns did.

 

When we worship God, we appreciate God for all things, it is a communication between God and us. It is beautiful. God didn't ask human to give up their lives like nun, they did because they want to, because they love God that much, because they know how much God loves them. Again, it is giving and taking relationship:)

 

In my opinion, the structure of religion seems to be an external form of discipline one follows until they internalize the "rules" and don't need to go to church to be a good person.

Contrary to what you think, God put a new covenant in people's heart, and send Holy Spirit to those who believe and love God. it became internal after Jesus came and died for us. Holy Spirit guides us believers' lives.

 

Anyway, like the poet William Blake said, "All religions are one." It's true: they are more similar than different. They are about understanding and loving ourselves, and loving one another. What more could any "God" ask for in a people?

 

Whatever gets you there is good

"love" is good. But human being easily fall into trap of self-righteousness. When they sin, they don't even know because of this self-righteousness. (just see how hurtful your post towards believers)

 

Other religions are more like external form, only Christianility that promise that by faith God's children are sealed by Holy Spirit who bring REAL internal changing, and repentance. This means it is GOD'S POWER matters, only human being's efforts cannot make us enter into heaven, because we CANNOT due to our sinful nature.

 

Where Holy Spirit dwell on, where true change begin. If a person claims he is a born again believer, yet you don't see any change happen, you can know he isn't really born again yet.

[lonelybird]

Really true

I meant the blackend part:p

 

Actually by faith everyone can pray and ask God for Holy Spirit

[halfarock]

Well, I was in a gifted and talented program as well and I believe in God so your point here really makes no sense.

I said many not all.

 

And does that situation actually really exist? Does anybody actually live on an island by themselves with no human contact? I really don't think so. That's because that's not how it was meant to be. People were supposed to be around other people.

You're missing the point. religion doesn't come naturally, people learn it. That is why certain religions are concentrated in certain areas. Christians in Europe and America, Muslims in the middle east, Hindus in India... People in India don't have revelations about Jesus. All of their revelations and visions are about their gods just like Christians don't have revelations and visions about Hindu gods. It's because religion is a learned trait.

[HokeyReligions]

I am agnostic too, but my view of Christians is very different. Christians are first and foremost - HUMAN. In that regard we are the same. We have the same lapses of judgement, hold ourselves to different standards, make mistake, and also have triumphs.

 

Christians simply have a guide-book. It outlines a path that is straight and narrow. Jesus may have walked that path and at times had others walk with him, but no one else has ever walked the whole path - they side-step and stumble sometimes.

 

The Bible is the standard they hold themselves to - and prayer and forgiveness is what they rely on when they stumble. The younger someone is and the less life experience they have - the more likely they are to skip away from the path and lose sight of it completely. Human growth, hormones, and environment are constantly there to distract Christians.

 

I've been told by several people that I'm a better Christian than some Church-going Christians they know. They said that because my life, my personal morals, and personal behavior reflect much of what their Bible tells them to mirror. People tend to be surprised that I'm Agnostic.

 

I attribute my life to natural human behavior and development, and my own personal code, where a Christian will attribute their life to their God and Jesus. The similarity is that both will hold themselves responsible for their own mistakes. I seek my own forgiveness and try to learn a lesson, a Christian will seek God's forgiveness and accept the lesson learned as His teaching.

 

Christians are not Gods themselves, no matter how self righteous some individuals may be.

[halfarock]

Perhaps you should try believing in God. He may be able to help you with all of your "insecurities".

 

That's another thing. To all the people who have posted and don't believe in God, I wanted to ask you a question. Do you have any problems in your life that you haven't been able to solve or anything at all that you're unhappy with? Maybe God could solve that problem for you or give you peace about something. Just something to think about.

I don’t have insecurities, or problems that I can’t handle. I’m very happy with my life and who I am. I have no need for a god. Are you saying that god is for insecure, unhappy people up to their eyeballs in problems? Is that why Christians are so gullible?

[halfarock]

(just see how hurtful your post towards believers)

Like we don’t have to put up with Christian crap everywhere we go. How many people have been tortured and killed over the years by Christian soldiers. The crusades, the inquisitions, witch burnings, the Jewish purges in Europe… Christianity has plenty of blood on its hands. That is why the framers of the Constitution put in that no office should require a religious test, and in the First Amendment that Congress should establish no religion. It is because they saw the killing that was going on in Europe and wanted to avoid it.

 

You can believe whatever silliness you want. Just don’t expect everyone else to play along.

[Moose]

You can believe whatever silliness you want. Just don’t expect everyone else to play along.

I for one don't expect you to, "play along".

 

However, I would expect that you stop taking things out of context. For example:

How many people have been tortured and killed over the years by Christian soldiers. Christianity has plenty of blood on its hands.

Most if not nearly all of these tragedies against humanity where done by evil men who used Christianity as a cataylist. Christianity isn't to blame, these men are.

[halfarock]

However, I would expect that you stop taking things out of context. For example:Most if not nearly all of these tragedies against humanity where done by evil men who used Christianity as a cataylist. Christianity isn't to blame, these men are.

 

catalyst: an agent that provokes or speeds a significant change or action

 

So Christianity is the catalyst than evil men used to commit atrocities against humanity? Isn’t that what I just said? How then is Christianity to be held blameless?

 

I always hear Christians go on about how Christianity makes people be better people, makes them good. But there is always an underlying hatred. The list is endless of horrible, hate filled people who fill good about themselves and think of their misdeeds as righteous just because they believe and go to church. It’s a load of crap.

 

If you stand back and take a look at the current war in Iraq, you would see, as I do, that most of the supporters of Bush’s stupid little war, that it is the hatred of Muslims that drives that support. There is no denying it. It’s sprinkled everywhere, in between the words of political figures, in the rantings of commentators and radio talk show hosts, and even “good” bible thumping preachers. I’ve long lost count the many times I’ve heard people say that we have to fight the war so that the Islamists won’t come over here and force their beliefs on us. It’s so far from the truth, but then I never expect truth from religious people.

 

Studies and polls have repeatedly shown that Christians, and especially the more fundamentalist Christians, overwhelmingly support war from Vietnam to Iraq and every place in between. And atheists tend to be quite the opposite. That Christianity was the catalyst for warmongers 1000 years ago and continues to be the catalyst for warmongers today says something about Christianity.

 

I for one don't expect you to, "play along"

Yes you do, that is why you insist that I not mention the uncomfortable truth about your religion and your non-existent god. You’d so much rather to just comfortably wallow in ignorance.

[Moose]

catalyst: an agent that provokes or speeds a significant change or action. How then is Christianity to be held blameless?

How do you or I know that any of these men were/are Christian at all? What about other jihads? What is or was the agenda for most of these, "Holy Wars", or ethnic cleansings? You don't know these men's hearts, I don't know these mens hearts. So how could either of us assume that it's the religion's fault?

But there is always an underlying hatred.

Really? I had to sit and think about that statement for a while. And yeah.....I can see where you're coming from. Then I realized that hatred, and anger are two different things and decided that I fall more under the angry department. It makes me angry, (BTW Christians are allowed to get angry), when someone publicy has the aduacity to claim my God doesn't exist and it's fact but can't prove it.

 

THEN, tells us that they, "won't play along" with our views and opinions, (which is fine by us), but expects us to accept their outrageous claims of, "truth".

Yes you do, that is why you insist that I not mention the uncomfortable truth about your religion and your non-existent god. You’d so much rather to just comfortably wallow in ignorance.

You just can't simply say, "that is why you insist that I not mention the uncomfortable views about your religion and your god."

 

You have to throw in the words, "truth" and "non-existent".

 

The reason you do that is to provoke a reaction from me, because you know I'm obligated to defend my faith.

 

I don't think I'm ignorant at all to what you're doing. But I do think you're not used to someone like me figuring you out.

 

Oh.....I'm sure you'll need to have the last word......so lemme have it.....

[halfarock]

The fact remains, you can not demonstrate that a god exists.

[SierraMarie]

The fact remains, you can not demonstrate that a god exists.

 

So what Air exists Can you demonstrate to me that air exists? You know what, you're prejudice against religous people. You're all like "I wouldn't expect truth from religious people" among other things you've said. You're probably prejudice and racist against other people as well.

[SierraMarie]

Oh yeah and I was talking to love necessity when I said that maybe God could help her with her insecurities, which she has posted about before.

[disgracian]

Can you demonstrate to me that air exists?

Of course! Air can be identified, measured, quantified, and even seen under a sufficiently powerful microscope. Having said that, it can be seen everywhere. Have you noticed how very distant objects appear faded and blueish in colour? That's because air isn't completely transparent.

 

Cheers,

D.

[SierraMarie]

Well I just have one more thing to say. It says in the Bible that people will try to disprove the existence of God through science. And it also says there will be many many non believers in the end times.

[disgracian]

That's not really hard to predict. It's up there with "there will be wars and rumours of wars". When in human history has there not been wars or rumours of wars?

 

Cheers,

D.

[SierraMarie]

Oh and here's a link you non-believers might wanna check out:

 

http://everystudent.com/features/isthere.html?gclid=CLGj6d2qq40CFQZiOAodEk8L1A

[SierraMarie]

How is that not hard to predict? Do you think they could really know that science would be that advanced back in those days? And why would anyone have any reason to believe that there would be a lot of non-believers when most people used to be and no one could imagine that ever changing? Hm

[disgracian]

Those are the stupidest "reasons" I've ever heard. By the way, I'm not a non-believer; I just believe in something else.

 

Cheers,

D.

[SierraMarie]

I highly doubt you read that entire article in 4 minutes. You can't just read the sub titles and expect to just KNOW what the rest of it says.

 

BTW, what do you believe, if you don't mind me asking

[SierraMarie]

You should definetely read reason number 5.

[disgracian]

I scanned it because I am quite familiar with those arguments; there is nothing in there that I haven't seen many times before. I'm sure I've seen that exact page before. The whole thing is littered with scientific fallacies and a blithe disregard for logic.

 

I apologise if this disappoints you, but I don't have the enthusiasm to give you a point by point rebuttal.

 

My own beliefs are roughly aligned with Buddhism, but I wouldn't go so far as to call myself a Buddhist. I identify with bits and pieces from most religions, so I'm interested in the common bond between all people and reject everything that is divisive and mutually exclusive (which happens to include much of our "current" religions).

 

Cheers,

D.

[halfarock]

So what Air exists Can you demonstrate to me that air exists? You know what, you're prejudice against religous people. You're all like "I wouldn't expect truth from religious people" among other things you've said. You're probably prejudice and racist against other people as well.

 

Not only can it be demonstrated that air exist, but the various elements, their density, and the air pressure can all be determined with a great deal of accuracy. If you live in any city there is a brownish, sometimes grayish cast in the air that is due to the pollution of your car, the power plants, heating furnaces, and fires. If the air is removed or contains harmful substances you can die. Just put your mouth around the exhaust pipe of your car when it’s running and then come back and tell me that air can’t be demonstrated to exist.

 

I’m not at all prejudiced; I just think that religion is silly. You can be religious all you want, just don’t talk to me like it’s real.

 

Just like warmongering, studies have shown that religious people (especially the fundamentalist type) are far more likely to be racist than non-religious people. Let’s not forget that all the great racists, like the KKK, have religious underpinnings.

If was up to me all the borders would be open. Among my acquaintances, it is only the religious ones that want to kick all the Mexicans out of the country.

[SierraMarie]

I scanned it because I am quite familiar with those arguments; there is nothing in there that I haven't seen many times before. I'm sure I've seen that exact page before. The whole thing is littered with scientific fallacies and a blithe disregard for logic.

 

I apologise if this disappoints you, but I don't have the enthusiasm to give you a point by point rebuttal.

 

My own beliefs are roughly aligned with Buddhism, but I wouldn't go so far as to call myself a Buddhist. I identify with bits and pieces from most religions, so I'm interested in the common bond between all people and reject everything that is divisive and mutually exclusive (which happens to include much of our "current" religions).

 

Cheers,

D.

I'm sure you haven't seen that exact page before.

 

But you should really read the rest of it because the subtitles really don't explain the rest of it very well. Even I was surprised.

 

I don't want you to give me a point by point rebuttal I just thought you might like to read that.

 

Christianity isn't "divisive" or "exclusive", it accepts whoever wants to be a part of it. And it certaintly doesn't divide people, it brings them together.

[disgracian]

Christianity isn't "divisive" or "exclusive", it accepts whoever wants to be a part of it.

And excludes all those who don't, and advises its own flock to minimise association with them. Don't marry unbelievers, shun those who preach other beliefs. Christianity is in many cases the very textbook definition of "divisive" and "exclusive".

 

Exclusive because it teaches that it is the only truth and that every other doctrine is false and evil.

 

Divisive because it creates two classes of human, the saved and the unsaved. The latter are regarded with distrust, condescending pity, indifference, or even hatred all because they may call god by a different name.

 

It helps to have a basis for comparison when dealing with terms like this, so consider a religion that teaches the opposite: that there are countless paths which can arrive at the same destination, that dogma is trivially unimportant, that it doesn't matter as much what a person believes but how they act on those beliefs and their attitude towards others. Consider a religion that teaches that we are truly all one, and that the differences between us are just self-imposed illusions, that we have the divine spark within us and that we don't have to view ourselves as failed, weak and beyond redemption, with our only hope to rely on external sources of salvation.

 

Christianity is a long way from being a worthy candidate for a universal religion.

 

Cheers,

D.