Pendawn Posted July 7, 2007 Posted July 7, 2007 I really had no intentions of really posting about this, till I saw the wonderful reponses others have been getting and it suddenly made me want to share this. To see responses that were not just "He's cheated, he's a liar, he will still be lying, leave him!" - which may be true but don't feel helpful - gave me a need to hear input form some of you guys. OKay I will try to keep this as brief as posible. My fiance and I have been together 2 and a half years, we got engaged less than 2 weeks ago and on Monday I found out he's cheated on me. The backstory is this. Firstly me, I decided that i did not want to partake in premarital sex many years ago. That is to say, my only restriction is actual intercourse, only baby-making sex was off the cards. I feel comfortable with masturabtion and oral. I say this not becuase I really think it's relevent in a lot of ways, but I think it's part of what has contributed to the problem. Anyway my OH has always been totally fine with that and our first 4-5 months of dating our sex life was terrific. However suddenly his libido took a dive and he immediatly told me about it, reassuring me it wasn't me, and he couldn't explain it. The problem stayed for the past 2 years. He couldn't get aroused at all with me and had no desire too (ie not just no erections he just felt sex was distant from him, he said). He kept reassuring me that it was a general problem, saying he'd lost the ability to masturbate alone, wasn't getting morning erections and couldn't get turned on by porn or any other woman or anything. I always, ALWAYS, suspected this wasn't the case, that is was just ME but he always reassured me saying how wonderful I was etc. And we tried lots of stuff to fix it, watching porn together, doing massages and sensation stuff. He went to see a doctor (and he genuinely did this, I know) who did tests and found nothing wrong. Eventually December 2006 he got round to seeing a counsellor. He saw her alone first and then she asked to see us together, which we did. But she couldn't find anything "wrong" she said how healthy our realtionship was, and our body language and interaction was wonderful and we seemed to work through everything brilliantly. She basically sent us off saying she didn't need to see us again but if we ever needed to she be "delighted" to see us again! However, during the session I did push the idea that the problem was HOW he saw me. That he saw me as a "perfect" woman on a pedestal and this was why he could no longer associate me with sex, and he admitted that could very well be it. I was sure it was. The clues were all there. He had a bad childhood - father was in the military and moved around alot; father wanted him to be a tough miltary type and he's a soft intellectual type; father had many many affairs which son and mother knew about; father beat mother; father beat my OH; mother told my OH he was just like his father etc etc. When I met my OH he was 33 and had only had 1 relationship that had lasted longer than a year (and less than 2!). He'd slept with aprox. 30 women, and had had lots of relationships lasting between 2-6 months. He'd never been in love and every woman he dated, were basically women he didn't "like"! All through our dating he kept saying how amazing I was, how he couldn't believe how EASY it was to be with me. With all his ex's he had dreaded seeing them most of the time because he just didn't enjoy BEING with them - but the sex was fine. Then here I was, the perfect woman for him. He'd forever tell me I was perfect. He refused to ever say anything negative about me (but always put himself down in general terms). I felt it was no coincdence that his libido tailed off exaclty at the point his relationships would normally end, right when REAL feelings start developing. I also felt my sexual stance was something to do with that - not that he had a problem with the no intercourse thing but that it contributed to this image he had of me as some perfect Holy type who should not be tainted by the dirty sex. (I assume he has this diea fo sex as dirty because seeing his parents, it was something that only happened between peoprl who seemed to hate and hurt each other) Anyway we fell in love and the relationship - apart from the lack of sex - was totally wonderful. He is everything i could want in a man. Supportive in every way, tactile, talked about his feelings, and even with the lack of libido he still managed to make me feel incredibly beautiful. But I always felt he was on his best behaviour. We never once had anything approaching a cross word or argument or falling out. And I just always had this feeling that he was holding part of himself back, there was something I didn't know etc. Last weekend we had our engagement party at his house, and I stayed at his for a few days. For the first time I was left alone in his house when he went to work on Monday morning. He gave me his password so i could use his computer at that time. Big mistake. I saw he'd been on a site 3 weeks ago. Adultfriendfinder. I could see the description of the pages he'd visited but not the actual pages as he wasn't logged in to the site. At first I was upset and freaked out realising that he had lied about his libido being gone for EVERYThing. I thought he's been able to masturbate and get turned on by other women all along. Here he was looking at porn etc online...And then I saw he had an account and a profile page and friends and had looked at specific women. That's when I opened up his email, and in his sent boxes I found the emails to women talking about the sex he wanted to have with them when they met. I immediatly freakd out, text him at work and he left work and came home. For about 1 minute he seemed confused about what i was saying, he said "i haven't been on that in so long" but he looked at the computer and I said "Just be honest with me" and he said he would. At this point i thought he was just chatting to these women online about wanting to meet up and have sex, the way people do with online fantasies. But when he spoke he told me that several times he'd met up with women for sex. The tale was - his problem IS genuine, he didn't understand it. But he desperately didn't want me to feel bad or blame myself so he kept the fact that he could still get turned on by other women from me!! And somehow this led him to doing this, he tried to explain something about how he did it as his way to try and fix the problem. I'm not sure as so mush was said in the first few hours after I found out, it became a blur of emotion. He did it 4 times, each time was a one night stand with no contact after. He stopped about 9 months ago (This appears to be true as the stuff I found was from no more recent than that) but that he was still on the site just looking at the porn pics and it would never happen again. (This part I think he believes is the truth but I think he was totally kidding himself. If he'd thought he'd never do it again he would not have been on that site 3 weeks ago looking at women who live near by). He swore the proposal was nothing to do with it, he just realised some time ago that I was the only woman for him and he wanted to amrry me. Again this seems true as about 6 months ago I noticed a change in him where he seemed to be giving much more of himself to me - phoning and texting more, making more time for me etc. We spent 24 hours talking about it and dealing with it, during which time he admitted the problem he has with love and sex. That he loved me but could no longer associate sex with me - every part of him wanted me but there was just this BLANK when it came to sex. And these women meant nothing to him, just sex. The only way he could explain HOW he could do this to me who he loved and still manage to look me in the eye and lie to me etc, was all part of this compartmentlising he did in his head. It was sex, it wasn't connected to the love feelings he had for me. He just pushed it out and didn't think about it (which is why it was so easy for me to catch him as he didn't think to hide the evidence). I KNOW he's been compartmentalising all along - things he's done and said. Like we met online, and we used to chat daily online until our first date - and then he practically never chatted to me online again. I realise this was because he saw those 2 things as seperate! And I remember he made a comment about a female celeb and what he'd like to do to her, and I said something about me and he said "Oh the things I'd like to do to her, i could never do to you!". It was a joke at the time but I know it's completely true. It's the old madonna/whore thing. He can easily have sex with women he doesn't like or doesn't really know as people, but with me, he loved me and liked me and sex was not something he could connect with thosee feelings at all. (I want to add despite this problem he is never disrespectful to any woman, he never talks about women being whores or reacts badly to women who are sexual beings etc. I would not be with him if he acted that way. It just seems to be down to his personal sexual attraction that a woman you love is nothing to do with a woman you'd want to have sex with. He said sex never seems tender to him) Anwyay, he was completely and utterly devastated doing what angel's husband did - he went to pieces sobbing hysterically, babbling and rambling about his dad, about the hurt he felt and what he'd done to me, and how could he do it to me, and he was going to lose me etc. He IMMEDIATLY promised to go and see a counsellor (he'd been so much in denial he'd not told the counsllor any of this when he saw her alone!) and kept saying he'd do whatever it takes. He made me sit with him when he phoned up and made the appointment (we are waiting to hear back when she has a specific time for us). And through it all, i didn't want to leave him. I'm hurt beyond measure and I don't know how I can trust him, but at the same time I still feel the love for him. i don't even hate him or feel very angry! It's just pain and hurt and questioning myself and what I thought I knew of him. I just don't know HOW i can know he's telling the turth. How do I know someone who is so upset and sorry and offers everything up immediatly and is 100% genuine, is different from someone who does the same but knows in the back of their mind they'll do it all again? I have people telling me it's all a manipulation, he's still lying etc and I still wonder but my gut isn't saying that (and it's people who don't actually know him, only know me) He's offered me EVErything, laid his life prostrate for me - he deleted everything (his account, the emails) in front of me, told the entire sorry tale to his MOTHER and his best friends, got appointments with 2 therapists (the couples counsellor we saw together and he went to see the occupational therapist at his work who has got him an appointment with a personal therapist this week) and has said whatever i want he will do. He's answered every question, and behaved in every way I'd hope he would since i discovered, but i just don't know HOW you know?? Thanks for listening!
Trialbyfire Posted July 7, 2007 Posted July 7, 2007 but i just don't know HOW you know?? You don't. Can you live with that? In order to continue on with this relationship, you have to forgive him and learn to trust and respect him again. There are never any sureties in life. You decide if you want to continue gambling with someone with a known track record and a dysfunctional family and relationship history. It's your choice.
Lynna Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 Pendawn, One thing we know for sure about life, we can never know what the future will hold. We cannot know what we will do tomorrow or next year, so there is no way to know what our SO will do. In a case like this that is VERY difficult to let go of, that need to ENSURE that it won't happen again. I know, I am trying to let go of that myself right now. I would definitely suggest that you both have joint counseling as well as his individual counseling. My H and I will be foing that. I am hoping a counselor will be able to help me learn how to forgive and move on. Apparently there are several good books and websites out there to help too, you will find them listed on several threads on this forum. I am glad that he is going to fully open up to you and the counselor now. It sounds like he has a definite issue about sex. That must be resolved so that the two of you can have a happy and healthy sex life. You should also insist that he get tested right away for STDs. Clearly he has never had sex with someone he loves, so he does not know how much better that must make it. How fullfilling that is. Given your decision not to have sex until you are married, it will be some time before he can experience this. Give yourselves some time to heal from this, and if you still want to be with him, then you may want to do something about that. You can always have a small ceremony with just yourselves and witnesses, you don't have to spend lots of money on a wedding.
only1life Posted July 13, 2007 Posted July 13, 2007 It is very hard to regain trust when it has been broken by someone you love. It will take years, and even then, little things will occur which will remind you of the past incidents all over again. Determine the physical requirements first: did he use protection with these others? And both of you get checked for STDs. Advise: make this a LONG engagement, and make sure he is worth it, before commiting to the next level of marriage. Many of us on this board have commitments of years of marriage and kids, and once we do, it makes changing things much more difficult. You have time, take it, and don't rush into anything you are not sure of! If he is worth it, he'll understand, and work with you, to try and get your relationship close to what you had before.
nylah Posted July 13, 2007 Posted July 13, 2007 QUOTE: suddenly his libido took a dive and he immediatly told me about it, reassuring me it wasn't me, and he couldn't explain it. I think you mentioned that he is unable to get an erection with you, right????? If that is what you said, then I truly think that you should reconsider being with him.....I'm not sure what has happened to him, but it should be mandatory for you that the man you marry be turned on by you....at the very least.....I'm so sorry..
Mr. Lucky Posted July 14, 2007 Posted July 14, 2007 I think you mentioned that he is unable to get an erection with you, right????? If that is what you said, then I truly think that you should reconsider being with him... I second this, wondering if you really have a handle on how fundamentally screwed up he might be. I'm not going to take the moral high ground and tell you he's a bad or evil person, but the depth of his neuroses may be such that it would take YEARS of IC for him to get to the bottom of it. And, even then, he might "relapse" in his behavior. The part that is sad about your story is that the first part of any relationship (courtship, honeymoon, newlywed) should be fun, exciting, carefree and fulfilling. You'll need that early stored energy to sustain you through the tough times later on. You've gotten off to such a rough start that I'd be concerned about what the future might hold... MJr. Lucky
LivingMyDreams Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 I fought for 16 years for my marriage, virtually from Day 1. My estranged husband's "mistresses" were never humans...they were books, computer games, video games, work, and, to some extent, playing soccer. He found his fulfillment and relationship in inanimate things. I could never understand why he didn't want to be with me or the kids. I adored this man. I was absolutely devoted to him. I knew of some of the abuse he'd suffered as a child, but never the full extent until 15 years into our marriage. If I had known back then all that I eventually did, would I have still married him? Yes. I was a little girl still and would have just thought that I could fix him by showing him how worthy he was of loving, just as I tried to do all those years. By the time I realized that I was fighting a losing battle, I had come to the point where I hated myself. I felt completely unlovable, unworthy of anything good in my life. Then I realized that only I could help me. I went into therapy, went to school, changed careers, worked on my attitude, began to understand that I had a whole lot more value than I'd ever realized. I then came to the point where I had to accept that he is how he is, it's never going to change, I didn't trust anything he said anymore. Once I came to that acceptance, the only decision left was, can I live the rest of my life like this, knowing I'll never have with him what I always wanted, or do I just move on with my life? A lot of thought went into that decision. In April of last year, I left him after 17 years of marriage. I no longer loved him as a wife is supposed to love a husband, my children had suffered enough of the abuse and neglect from BOTH of us, and I had a responsibility to our girls to try to make their lives better while being happy myself. Our boys are grown and on their own. There's nothing I can do to save them from their lives with mom and dad, but I can try with the girls at least. It's not always easy, but I am so much happier. Overall, our girls are doing well. They see their dad every weekend and whenever he wants to see them. I've been seeing someone else for a long while and am very happy with him. But I learned a lot from my marriage. My life does not revolve around this guy; I do as I please, when I please. He knows how much I adore him, how devoted I am to him, but he also knows I won't be a fool for a man ever again. I value myself far too much to let that happen again, and love my girls too much to do that to them again. I had thought we hid it all very well from the kids during those years. Boy, did I find out differently after I'd left. If you're having these issues now I would strongly encourage you to reconsider marrying this man. I would hate to see anyone go through the hell I did.
Author Pendawn Posted September 24, 2007 Author Posted September 24, 2007 Just wanted to reply to this, with some hope as i know so many of the tales never get udpated or if they do it is always negatively. Well since I posted this my OH had 4 councelling sessions on his own. We are STILL at this point waiting for the couples counselling date (we are on a waiting list!). I took him back and accepted the engagement ring from him,and to be honest in many ways this inccident has been the best thing to happen to our relationship. It made us really look at ourselves and be TOTALLY honest, and REAL. We talked through so so much and I really believed his promises of it never happening again etc. Of course I still had moments of anger and hurt etc but as times goes on they lessen every day, I've even stopped checking up on him online etc as I feel the trust return. He's been so so expresisve of how much he loves me, what i mean to him and how much he wants to marry me. And as I said in my original post, my initial gut reaction was not to pull away but to actually be CLOSER - to spend more time together, to explore more of our emotions, to talk more, to be more commited. And I think it's proven totally right. I feel so completely in love with him and he does with me. As for the sexual problem that caused all this... The counselling really helped him to see how low his self-esteem was, and how he'd felt this weight and pressure all his life. He spent a lot of time just talking about me with the counsellor, and she suggested we just TRy being sexual with each other - however she wasn't really very specific about it. So basically I read up onn sexual therapy and we kind of made up our own exercises. I had wanted to do this for 2 years but clearly nothing was working and my OH was putting it off becuase he was totally in denial about the problem and fixing it would mean admitting to the cause and the reality of it, which he wasn't ready to do. But after this confontation he was completely open and dedicated to working on it. So on a regular basis we did what we called "homework" which was just reaquainting ourselves with touching - we'd experiment with textures like body scrubs, brushes, scarves, fur etc, stroking each other's bodies and at the same time we'd talk about our love for each other or I'd ask my OH to tell me about some of his past sexual encounters, fantasies and whatnot, just so that he would start to reconnect thinking about sex with having me touching him. But with no pressure for arousal of any kind and no genital touching. Doing this, I could feel a differnce very quickly, that he would touch me more (small things like putting his hand up the back of my top and stroking my back, or kissing my neck just randomly) but I did feel it would be MONTHS before this would be fixed. However just over a month ago, during one of our homework sessions he got his first erection with me for 2 years! This was a huge step and we continued with this for sevearl weeks, including him being able to touch me sexually. And the great news is last night we were able to have sex for the first time. Yes, I realise I said I would not have sex before marriage but during it all i made a decision to compromise on that as I was not prepared to marry him with this problem still hanging over our heads and it was only by actually having sex that i knew it was completely fixed. It just goes to show that even with such a deep-set complciated issue, that with therapy and LOTS of talking and dedication, sometimes it CAN be improved. There is still some way to go with us - and we still still go to couple councelling when we get an appointment - but the fact that for 2 years he was completely unable to associate me with sex in ANY way, to last night us being able to actually have sex, is really a sign of how dramatically things have turned around. We have a wedding date set for next year and we are both incredibly excited about this. I am sure many people will think I'm mad, to forgive so quickly and "easily" but seeing my OH, hearing his words and FEELING what he's sending out I know I've made the right decision. I'm not saying it will be easy, we have to be vigilante to be open and honest and make sure things never get to that stage again. But I am happy and feel loved - sexually and emotionally.
whichwayisup Posted September 24, 2007 Posted September 24, 2007 You feel he is worth it and given him another chance, that's good! It seems things have turned around and you both have been working hard! (Congrats on the sex!) Just make it perfectly clear to him that you will not tolerate cheating And that if he does do it, it's over immediately. If he starts heading down that path again, to talk to you, open up and fix things before making a bad choice... Good luck though and I hope things continue to get better and better for you both!
Author Pendawn Posted September 24, 2007 Author Posted September 24, 2007 You feel he is worth it and given him another chance, that's good! It seems things have turned around and you both have been working hard! (Congrats on the sex!) Just make it perfectly clear to him that you will not tolerate cheating And that if he does do it, it's over immediately. If he starts heading down that path again, to talk to you, open up and fix things before making a bad choice... Good luck though and I hope things continue to get better and better for you both! Thanks! Oh I made it COMPLETELY clear what the status was that fi he ever cheated again I would leave him without a single question. And I've made him promise that he will always be open and tell me if he's starting to feel anything like he did before. He promises again and again that it will never happen again - even promised his Mum recently! - and often thanks me for giving him another chance and forgiving him. I feel he's so much more open now and I am convinced he will never behave in this way again.
Bobby NoBrains Posted September 24, 2007 Posted September 24, 2007 How about a pre-nup that if he cheats he pays you $x,xxx,xxx (hopefully he has enough saved up ) or some such thing to make sure he doesn't. That also lets him know you're serious. But also that you don't trust him totally. I bet he freaks out if you even talk about it. As you can see, I don't agree with what you are doing, sorry, but four times behind your back ? I just don't understand how you can trust him again. Are you saying he wanted to make sure the plumbing was working not once, not twice, but four times ? And it's still not working with you and you want to get married to him ? I'm not usually so strongly against something, but it just doesn't sound right to me. No one made me the expert, but wth ... Just my two bits .. Bobby
Author Pendawn Posted September 24, 2007 Author Posted September 24, 2007 How about a pre-nup that if he cheats he pays you $x,xxx,xxx (hopefully he has enough saved up ) or some such thing to make sure he doesn't. That also lets him know you're serious. But also that you don't trust him totally. I bet he freaks out if you even talk about it. As you can see, I don't agree with what you are doing, sorry, but four times behind your back ? I just don't understand how you can trust him again. Are you saying he wanted to make sure the plumbing was working not once, not twice, but four times ? And it's still not working with you and you want to get married to him ? I'm not usually so strongly against something, but it just doesn't sound right to me. No one made me the expert, but wth ... Just my two bits .. Bobby I understand how it reads in black and white, but I know him and I know the reality of the situation and he's not the kind of person that he might appear from his actions. If I suggested a prenup, he wouldn't balk in the slightest. He has utterly laid himself prostate over his cheating and has offered to do whatever I wanted to help fix it - and he has done that. We wont have a prenup mainly because there isn't much to be divided up LOL. Neither of us have any money so there isn't anything to protect or provide. As I said in my original post, what led him to cheating was a messed up head, and he behaved stupidly and badly. He freely admits that, and it was a symptom of this larger problem he had, which was your basic madonna/whore complex. He's had therapy now and the complex is much much improved. And he didn't have to admit he cheated 4 times - he didn't evn have to admit he'd cheatd at all becuase I wasn't convinced he'd had sex with other women. It was him who gave me total disclosure adn wanted to clear everything up. Now that the initial problem is almost resolved, it means he doesn't have the same "reason" to cheat that he did. He was in denial and running away from a problem he had that he didn't want to confront. Now he's confronted it, and is dealing with it, I can't see he would ever cheat again. He's knows the consequences and has said he would never risk losing me again.
JamesM Posted September 24, 2007 Posted September 24, 2007 Pendawn, I know what you say and what he says. I know you think you know him...and you do at this stage of life. And I know he says that he will never do it again. BUT...as a guy, I can also say that as much as he believes what he says, he will have a much harder time than you think he will sticking to that promise. The memory of the pain will disappear and the memory that you took him back will remain. As Mr Lucky, this should be the time that he is completely devoted to you. If during this time, he has issues of commitment, then in the future when things get rougher, he will remember the thrill of the "dirty" women. Another thing...when/if you have child, you will become a mother. Then what? Will he be able to handle you as more than a mother? Will you become the madonna figure again? As for you, will you be able to trust him? I kow you do now, and that is good. Down the road, things will get rough. It works that way for everyone. How we handle those times is what makes or breaks a marriage. This period of struggle that you had now may actually be good or bad. Good....you know how to resolve issues. Bad...you may distrust him no matter what he says. I agree with the story above. Take this as warning. Are you prepared for the future? We all have risks when we marry, but when red flags arise so blatantly before we marry, we should sit back and think.
Mr. Lucky Posted September 25, 2007 Posted September 25, 2007 As I said in my original post, what led him to cheating was a messed up head, and he behaved stupidly and badly. He freely admits that, and it was a symptom of this larger problem he had, which was your basic madonna/whore complex. He's had therapy now and the complex is much much improved. And he didn't have to admit he cheated 4 times - he didn't evn have to admit he'd cheatd at all becuase I wasn't convinced he'd had sex with other women. It was him who gave me total disclosure adn wanted to clear everything up. You seem like a really good person, Pendawn, to even consider forgiving someone with that history. Just keep your eyes (and options ) open every step of the way - I hope it works out for you... Mr. Lucky
Bobby NoBrains Posted September 26, 2007 Posted September 26, 2007 I understand how it reads in black and white, but I know him and I know the reality of the situation and he's not the kind of person that he might appear from his actions. If I suggested a prenup, he wouldn't balk in the slightest. He has utterly laid himself prostate over his cheating and has offered to do whatever I wanted to help fix it - and he has done that. We wont have a prenup mainly because there isn't much to be divided up LOL. Neither of us have any money so there isn't anything to protect or provide. As I said in my original post, what led him to cheating was a messed up head, and he behaved stupidly and badly. He freely admits that, and it was a symptom of this larger problem he had, which was your basic madonna/whore complex. He's had therapy now and the complex is much much improved. And he didn't have to admit he cheated 4 times - he didn't evn have to admit he'd cheatd at all becuase I wasn't convinced he'd had sex with other women. It was him who gave me total disclosure adn wanted to clear everything up. Now that the initial problem is almost resolved, it means he doesn't have the same "reason" to cheat that he did. He was in denial and running away from a problem he had that he didn't want to confront. Now he's confronted it, and is dealing with it, I can't see he would ever cheat again. He's knows the consequences and has said he would never risk losing me again. Even if there's nothing to divide up, there's always something. Let him know he will have to pay whatever he has left if he cheats on you again. Don't tell us what you *think* he will do. Try it out and put it into actions. Just because *he*told you that he cheated doesn't make him a saint. The fact is that he *did* cheat, and four times. Maybe it's more and he's only told you four. Maybe he couldn't handle he guilt and knew you would be mind-****** into taking him back / keeping him, so he told you to get it out of his system, and knew you'd accept everything he said, etc. From what you say, it seems to me that it's only a matter of time that he finds another reason to cheat and he will as soon as he finds that reason. You'll never be a perfect human being and he's never going to have "no reasons". And you will end up blaming yourself for his actions. I know I'm coming in negative again, but I don't think you two are "right for each other". You're both two different kinds of people, and you're the one who will end up getting hurt, sorry. Just my two bits .. Bobby
ohmy3 Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 Wow! i know i am up in the middle of the night @ god knows what hr. however i feel like i just watched a movie on life time! girl there is no way "NO Matter" what this guy you deem so Right for you- aside from his "Million issues" has done anytihng but use you as a support freind and a cover from this under ground life he lead and I bet $ it way more than you'll ever know! RUN AWAY FAST! your young and seem to be very nice and caring even for the weakest people .... He is using you! RUN , RUN AWAY, if you were able to stand by your strong belife- NO sex till marriage- your strong and can move on w/ ease (ie: you didn't find self worth in sex as he is) he will be this way & do or say whatever he has to to keep you as you are the com outta life for him and now that you know his serect well @ least a little he will try harder to keep you, as he will feel like he can trust you more now that you know how messed up he is and still love him, if your know SOME of his serects and will stay "he will find more confort like a high to do it again when things settle between you 2 and knowing he can run back to your caring arms is just the HIGH he'll be looking for" 4 times will never find a end # only = NEVER................... Take your loving & strong heart and RUN!
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