draffuob Posted July 5, 2007 Posted July 5, 2007 I have been married for almost 13 years. When we first started dating my wife had more male friends than female. Some she had dated and others she didn't. I have always been insecure about myself and very jealous. I got her to forget her male friends for the sake our relationship. She said that she fell in love with me because I was the first "sweet" guy after dating jerks. We were married three years later. I now see that I have been subjecting her to mental abuse through out our marriage. She has lost all confidence in herself and its mainly due to me. He part was that she alowed it to happen. We have two kids and I have treated them badly as well I had a bad childhood and I was always angry about that. The lashed out on her. I am now in counselling and am starting to dump my old baggage and I am able to trust her agian. She finally had enough of my crap and has got in touch with some old friends from highschool. She has been real friendly with this one guy in particular who she dated for a bid and had sex with back in highschool. She is planning to go to his house for supper tonight. I know I can trust her but I can't trust him. I have read their email back and forth. (she does not know this) He flirts alot, talks about having sex with her in highschool and how nice her breasts are now. She lets him do it but does not really flirt back. I know they have talked on the phone a couple of times. My wife will not admit it though. She told me that he flirts and I said that you need to tell him to respect you as a married woman. She would not let a female friend talk about how good her breasts look. I really don't think anything sexual is going on now, but that may change in the future. I really do trust her but she has told him that we are not getting along and he may see this as an in. I told her that the friendship she is looking for may not be the same thing he is looking for. I just want he to be careful, she said if he tries anything she is walking out. I know she believes him but she has not seen him in 10 years and who knows what he is really like now. She told me that she needs to do this so I can show her that I trust her. Our marriage is on the mend now and we are getting along better. Should I be worried or am I just being crazy? This guy seem like a creep after reading his emails. He has no respect for women.
Cobra_X30 Posted July 5, 2007 Posted July 5, 2007 In order for her to be trustworthy she needs to show you that she can avoid bad situations. She already KNOWS what this guy is all about, going over to spend an evening with him is not a trustworthy act. She needs to take you along. Also, you definitely need to turn the corner on your mental abuse. As a side note how does this guy know that her "breasts" look nicer now if she hasnt seen him in 10 years?
Author draffuob Posted July 5, 2007 Author Posted July 5, 2007 They are friends on Facebook. He sees her pictures. I can tell by their emails that they have not seen each other yet. She doesn't want to take me because I have already said that I don't like him and I would just make her visit miserable. I do not want to go either. I am stopping the mental abuse. I am in counselling. It this was before I would not have let her go and I would have called her names. I know she is not my possession and she needs to have a life outside of our marriage, I just wish is was with other women. I don't want her to feel like she has to sneak around.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted July 5, 2007 Posted July 5, 2007 She is planning to go to his house for supper tonight. I don't know if she is pushing you or testing you maybe. It is not appropiate for a married woman to go another man's house (alone) for dinner. Why in the heck would they not meet at a local restaurant? I know that you are working on respecting boundaries and working on your jealousy issues but she is going WAAY over the line and is using your insecurities and your desire to improve them against you. You really need to talk to your therapist about ways of imposing your own realistic boudaries in this case. What she is doing is wrong, how you handle it is what is important, (ask your therapist) but you should not be expected to require less from her than any typical spouse would. She is punishing you and using your desire to change as a way of ensuring your enablity to enforce normal boundaries. Geesh.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted July 5, 2007 Posted July 5, 2007 I just wish is was with other women. They would be meeting at a restaurant. I meet a group of girlfriends one night every week for drinks and dinner, we have a ball, NO ONE has ever suggested we cook for one another!!!
Shades of Grey Posted July 5, 2007 Posted July 5, 2007 Draffuob, the positive thing is that she is not sneaking around. Which suggests that their liasion is perfectly innocent. if you have trust in your wife then you do not need to worry about what he might try because she would prevent any inappropriate behaviour. The best way of ensuring that she does begin sneaking around is by showing your disapproval. You will then create a situation where she feels that she has to lie in order to avoid confrontation with you. The result will be silent resentment on her part and this is where she might turn to someone else for support. In my opinion you should show her how much you do trust her by allowing her to choose her own friends regardless of gender. And that doesn't mean being nonchalent about it. Show an interest and encourage her to discuss her evening when she returns. If she comes home to an understanding and loving husband each time she goes out without you it will remind her of exactly why she chooses to be with you. And each time she goes out she'll look forward to coming home all the more.
Shades of Grey Posted July 5, 2007 Posted July 5, 2007 But i do agree with IWWH that meeting in his home is probably unnecessary. She should respect that you might be uncomfortable with this and want to minimise any misinterpretation.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted July 5, 2007 Posted July 5, 2007 I wonder how any man might interperet the actions of a married woman who allowed you to chat about liking her breasts and agreed to meet you in your home for an intimate dinner? Would you assume she just wanted a friendship? What ever her intentions her actions are saying something else completely and SHE is responsible for that.
Author draffuob Posted July 5, 2007 Author Posted July 5, 2007 Thanks for those responses. I do realize she is trying to push me to see how far she can go. When they started chatting we were sort of on the outs. We have now been closer in the last little while. My wife feels that she is fat since she had our last child ( I always tell her she looks beautiful) I am sure she likes the attention she is getting. I feel guilty for reading her emails but I don't know what is worse, knowing or not knowing. I trust she will do the right thing. And Yes I did mention that she should go to a restaurant, I think I would be ok with that. I told her that I am uncomfortable with her being at his house due to the fact that they had sex in the past (even though it was like 19 years ago) She said I have to trust her. I don't have any choice but to trust her if I want to save may marriage. I will try to be positive when she comes home and try not to pry and seem obsessed. What would be better say nothing or ask her how it went. Man this is hard.
Ladyjane14 Posted July 5, 2007 Posted July 5, 2007 I very much doubt that The Golden Rule is being strictly minded in this situation. If it was YOU going to an old flame's home for a private dinner, what would your wife's reaction to THAT be? You know, you don't have to become passive in order to manage your anger issues. You don't have to become a conflict avoider. You can manage your conflicts in a positive way without anger and STILL face the conflict. Try typing into your browser, "the policy of joint agreement, marriagebuilders", and read the article you find there. POJA can be a superior tool for managing conflict effectively because it requires that both parties be "enthusiastic" about whatever agreement is reached. While you're there, read the entire Basic Concepts section with special attention to "LoveBusters". Your wife's behavior right now fits the description of a "love buster". It is causing a further rift in the emotional intimacy of the relationship. Face your conflicts, man. There are tools available to you so that you don't need to fall back into that old bad pattern.
Cobra_X30 Posted July 5, 2007 Posted July 5, 2007 LadyJane is right on this one. Your wife is bieng VERY innapropriate, and if she is just testing your boundaries the best thing you can do is explain to her in a logical way that you CAN and DO trust her, however she needs to RESPECT you. If she is meeting a former lover in his house for the evening... well she might as well spit in your face. She should be helping you, as you seem to be working hard at changing. Instead she is making it harder for you... please note that you need to be calm and assertive. Angry and Agressive will not help the situation.
FireandIce Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 You said that your wife thinks she's fat and possibly she feels unattractive because of this. Her old friend is giving her attention, compliments, etc. and it probably feels good and that's why she won't cancel. Yes you said that you compliment her as well but sometimes when you've been on a rollarcoaster ride with your spouse then the compliments from them just aren't as important as getting them from someone else. Perhaps it's been awhile since someone from the opposite sex (other than you) paid attention to her in ways that make her feel good. I think that's all this is. She loves the attention and he's making her feel good about herself again, something that you (with the past abuse) don't make her feel. I'll warn you though, this isn't a good thing that she's doing. She probably feels hurt from everything you have done in the past to her and even though you are working through it now, it might take her longer to get past. That's why relationships like she has with this friend are dangerous to your relationship. One thing leads to another and.... well you know. She may feel like she deserves this attention after everything you have said and done in the past. Honestly, the whole thing doesn't sound good to me. You need to tell her that you don't feel comfortable with her going and since she is married then perhaps it's not the best thing for her to do. She'll probably do it anyways though if she really wants to. Good luck.
jmargel Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 You really need marriage counseling. This guy has no loyalty to you and he is going to go all the way and try to impress her. You are giving her the green light to let him try. She is going over there because she wants to see if they still have that 'bond'. Don't kid yourself and you better stop rolling over and piddling. You might have done some bad things but now she is using this as an excuse to see this guy. WAKE UP! If you don't do something now I can guarantee in a month you will be on here crying about how your wife is having an affair. It already sounds like an emotional affair to me, it's just a matter of time before it becomes physical. This is not a normal marriage.
Author draffuob Posted July 6, 2007 Author Posted July 6, 2007 Oh I am pretty sure the emotional affair has already started. We are in counselling together. We had one group session now she is going for 2 or 3 on her own. I am pretty sure nothing happened last night, there were no signs. She did however try to get a rise out of me. She wore her lowest cut top put on a bunch of make up. Made herself look real hot. When she got home I said he must have liked your top (and laughed) and she said he didn't say anyting. I stayed calm and told her that I was having trouble dealing with this but she assured me nothing was going to happen. When she came home she told me a bit about her night. They ended up going to a restaurant because they met his sister (she knows her as well). I don't think she was lying but you never know. I told her that he seems nice and maybe I was wrong about him. I said I would like to meet him. Perhaps we all could go out for dinner (with a date for him). She got all pissy with me and said you are always trying to control my life and that she needs a life that doesn't involve me for now until she can forgive me. I am not really sure what that means. I said I am sorry for what I have done in the past but I can't go back and change it. I am trying to start fresh and I need her to give me a chance. She said it would take time. I will continue to express my feelings (in a calm fashon and wait and see) For now she has not give me any reason to expect different.
quiet1one1 Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 If it's allowed to continue as-is, it will become a full-blown A, believe that. Hundreds of people on LS have experienced this same crap and know the score. The OM has already set the table with the out-of-bounds comments. While your W's responses are not as direct, her saying that there are problems with your M is an open invitation to him...she knows that, he knows that, and you know that. Climb inside your male mind (get by the trust issues) and you'll realize the truth.
quiet1one1 Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 I am pretty sure nothing happened last night, there were no signs. ...she assured me nothing was going to happen...They ended up going to a restaurant because they met his sister (she knows her as well)...She got all pissy with me and said you are always trying to control my life and that she needs a life that doesn't involve me for now until she can forgive me. Look, I heard all the same BS. I heard every excuse and my trusting mind rationalized each and every one of them (just like you're doing). They all turned out to be lies. Also , every time I got close my W would pull out the trust card (just like your W is doing) and I'd quickly go back into my cage and be quiet. I did not have the same issues as you going in - I was a pretty solid, caring H so I know that makes it tougher for you - you're pinning a lot more of this on yourself. That does not allow her to do this! In the end my W didn't deserve to be trusted - I was completely justified doing and saying everything I did. Just keep your eyes open and prepare for the worst. Like you, several people here on LS told me directly this same stuff and at first I excused it away. However, once I accepted that it (probably was) could be true I was a lot better off.
jmargel Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 She got all pissy with me and said you are always trying to control my life and that she needs a life that doesn't involve me for now until she can forgive me. Which means she doesn't want you meeting the guy she is having the affair with. Listen, the red flags are all there. The low-cut top was not worn to get a rise out of you, it was to get a rise out of him if you know what I mean. I mean what else does she need to do? Wear a sign saying 'I am cheating/disrespecting' my husband? She wants to go out and have her fling without any guilt. She is acting like a teenager without any consequences. Continue to act like her parent and just throw out words and watch it continue to get worse. She is NOT entitled or justified to act this way no matter how you treated her. If she wants to leave, fine but to make you sit back and watch her flirt with this other guy is cruel. You NEED to stop rolling over and piddling and make her face some tough love. Give her the ultimatium that it's either him or you and that though you love her you won't allow yourself to be dragged through the mud. Ex's are ex's for a reason and to try to re-kindle something in this type of situation is morally wrong. The future is upto you and you can't make her want to be with you. The best case in this scenerio is to open up the cage door and let her go. IMO if I were you I would write her a letter, letting her know how much you love her but knowing this guy has other intentions you will not sit by and watch this unfold. Women love confidence and you are not showing any of it. Gunny needs to reply to this thread to give you some lessons here. Though he may be a little harsh on his advice at times, there are times where we see the derailed track and we have the opportunity to stop this train before it wrecks. This is a train wreck waiting to happen. When my wife was doing this **** behind my back she said the same sort of things. Justified and excused her behavior by putting the blame on me. By laying blanket statements on me. Anything to make put her own mind at ease. It was not until I wanted her out of the house and the marriage that she woke up. You MUST, MUST use tough love here. Trust me on this.
Gunny376 Posted July 7, 2007 Posted July 7, 2007 Excuse me while I lite the Zippo, lite a Marlobro! Take a sip of Candian Whiskey! What's your major malfuntion! What the **** is your problem! This gal is major disrespecting you and your marriage! She's getting ready to throw your azz under the bus! You'd best waking your azz the Hell up! She's taking your past transgestions and using them as "ammo" against youl! She's playing you! Wake the "Hell" up~ By God! :mad:
Gunny376 Posted July 7, 2007 Posted July 7, 2007 Jmargel right ~ she's practically scroggin the guy in front of your face. You need to "man-up" and find your self respect and dignity ~ NO WOMAN is worth what she's putting you through. THIS GAL'S PLAYING YOU FOR A FOOL!!!!!! She's got you sold on her being the only game in town. What one woman will abuse ~ another can certainly use! I can promise you, no woman of mine would be playing this game. I'd be all smiles, telling her lies and feeding her candy as she walked out the door, but when she came home the locks would be changed on the doors, and all her trash would be out by the curb waiting for either her or the trash man to pick up. If the roles were reveresed ~ this would be a "no-brainer" for any woman!
Curmudgeon Posted July 7, 2007 Posted July 7, 2007 Totally agree with you, Gunny! It wouldn't happen on my watch. The mere fact that she wanted to go would be enough for me to end things, much less her tarting herself up for the evening of fun and frivolity with her former lover. There seems to be a pandemic of balless wonders lately who let their wives relive their pasts with former boyfriends and lovers. What's up with that? Oh, I know. Their ex's are "up" for them!!!
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