she flirts and I worry

[squeak]

But she didn't tell me she planned to go to the second party (I heard about it by chance) and it was only because she came home with a bruise (caused by a bite from said horse) that she told me that she had left that party with him. She says my worries are driven by fantasy.

 

This part stayed with me, her retort to you does not explain why she did not mention the 2nd party.

 

She needs to explain why she left that out.

 

You only know because of a bruise you saw, and the rest of the story came out. The lie is the big thing here. The rest just adds to it. You have been with her for a long time, and it is not sitting right with you for a reason, listen to that, take action now. You want to find out if you are with a woman who is open to other men's advances, let HER show YOU by proving she is trustable.

 

-In front of him, make sure she touches you, and says nice things about you.

 

-Decline his invitations, and say she wants to get home to be with you.

 

This man is not essential to her, if he is hanging around her and it is making you uncomfortable, you will have your answer where her loyalty lies by what actions she chooses here.

 

In my experience, a woman does not flirt (and men, c'mon, deny all you want, you KNOW when your woman is flirting, those glances, that charged energy, the body language, excited chatter) and hang out with other men alone when she is in a relationship unless she is hunting for a new man to move on to. Any woman that says otherwise is either lying to you , or lying to herself.

 

My advice to all people in relationships with flirts: RUN RUN RUN

 

Unless you like the idea of cuckolding, then stay. (cuckolding: the desire to see your partner having sex with another person)

[Percy]

Well Percy, is that what you are looking for? A woman to tell you you are being paranoid and that everything is ok?

No, you're being unfair. What I am hoping to get reassurance on is whether there is such a thing as "harmless flirting". Other threads on this site suggest that people feel that there is, with the borderline being physical contact.

[Percy]

Why not just tell her to stop flirting, consciously shutting down and avoiding the Spaniard? I don't think this is an unreasonable request if she's exceeded your boundaries. If she refuses, she's now put her unreasonable needs before your reasonable expectations. How hard is it to give up someone you supposedly don't care about?

 

Whether she's actually cheated or not remains to be seen. I would also put a PI on her to confirm it or not.

That's obviously something to think about, but avoiding him is not feasible unless we change our lifestyle; it's a small village

[Percy]

This part stayed with me, her retort to you does not explain why she did not mention the 2nd party.

 

She needs to explain why she left that out.

 

You only know because of a bruise you saw, and the rest of the story came out. The lie is the big thing here. The rest just adds to it. You have been with her for a long time, and it is not sitting right with you for a reason, listen to that, take action now. You want to find out if you are with a woman who is open to other men's advances, let HER show YOU by proving she is trustable.

 

-In front of him, make sure she touches you, and says nice things about you.

 

-Decline his invitations, and say she wants to get home to be with you.

 

This man is not essential to her, if he is hanging around her and it is making you uncomfortable, you will have your answer where her loyalty lies by what actions she chooses here.

 

In my experience, a woman does not flirt (and men, c'mon, deny all you want, you KNOW when your woman is flirting, those glances, that charged energy, the body language, excited chatter) and hang out with other men alone when she is in a relationship unless she is hunting for a new man to move on to. Any woman that says otherwise is either lying to you , or lying to herself.

 

My advice to all people in relationships with flirts: RUN RUN RUN

 

Unless you like the idea of cuckolding, then stay. (cuckolding: the desire to see your partner having sex with another person)

I like your definition of the flirting behaviour, I think that's exactly where we are. But I'm surprised that you say a woman doesn't flirt unless she is hunting for a new man. Isn't it quite normal in our society for MW to dress attractively and behave coquettishly, because they like to look good and they enjoy the attention. Surely this behaviour doesn't have to have an ulterior motive?

[Percy]

and, Squeak, the reference to "cuckolding" is a low blow although I'm not meant to be hurtful. The title of this thread includes the word "jealousy". But I'm more than just jealous, I'm a worried man

[bish]

No, you're being unfair. What I am hoping to get reassurance on is whether there is such a thing as "harmless flirting". .

 

I'm sure there may be some harmless flirting. But I don't put up with flirting myself.

 

But YOUR wife is doing more than simple flirting. You just don't want to see it.

 

I think someone needs to slap you in the face and tell you to wake up!

I don't say this to be mean, I really want you to wise up and see what this tramp is doing to you.

[Trialbyfire]

That's obviously something to think about, but avoiding him is not feasible unless we change our lifestyle; it's a small village

While physically avoidance might be impossible, she can shut him down. Most women are born with the skill to give the come-hither or the drop dead sign.

[Percy]

I'm sure there may be some harmless flirting. But I don't put up with flirting myself.

 

But YOUR wife is doing more than simple flirting. You just don't want to see it.

 

I think someone needs to slap you in the face and tell you to wake up!

I don't say this to be mean, I really want you to wise up and see what this tramp is doing to you.

I rather think Ruby Deluxe and Squeak might have done that already ...

[Percy]

While physically avoidance might be impossible, she can shut him down. Most women are born with the skill to give the come-hither or the drop dead sign.

 

 

Yup, she certainly has that talent

[squeak]

I do apologize for using the term cockolding in Percy, you see, I have a peer in an old group of people I used to hang with (USED TO) who I see his girlfriend do just that, flirtiness, invites other guys out for drinks when her BF is out of town, lots of phyical contact with the undertone of "just kidding around" but it is obvios to me that she would move on to one of her targets if she could. I wish her BF would wake up, but I think long ago he decided "she is just a flirt" and lets her do that in front of him.

 

I wish he would wake up, so some anger comes from that.....

[Percy]

It's OK, as I say I'm sure it wasn't meant to be hurtful. Your friend's GF - you say she does it when he's out of town, but later you say he lets her do it in front of him. And it seems as though she is just doing it for kicks, as you don't seem to think she actually has cheated. But as I said above, I think where my head is, is that the boundary is in physical contact, that's where kidding around stops for me. When we can get some quality time, I'm going to try and get this cleared up.

[Trialbyfire]

It's OK, as I say I'm sure it wasn't meant to be hurtful. Your friend's GF - you say she does it when he's out of town, but later you say he lets her do it in front of him. And it seems as though she is just doing it for kicks, as you don't seem to think she actually has cheated. But as I said above, I think where my head is, is that the boundary is in physical contact, that's where kidding around stops for me. When we can get some quality time, I'm going to try and get this cleared up.

Address it now before it goes any further. Make quality time.

[squeak]

Well, to answer your original question- can harmless flirting exist?

 

That is all up to the SO what the boundaries are...unfortunately, to the one predisposed to having a need to flirt, the partner must understand that the flirter has very slippery boundaries themselves and what starts as flirting can escalate into many levels of inappropriateness.

 

I brought up the term cockholding because-personally, for the life of me, I do not know what makes someone overlook that, as by it's very nature, it WILL bring problems into the relationship at some point.

 

Flirting does not exist in a vacuum. If it was just resigned to one look, one conversation, but it is rarely like that.

 

And you are becoming increasingly uncomfortable because a comraderie has been established in this context-- it wasn't just a look, there was a drive home, there was an undisclosed (to you) stop off to see his horses, so they are not seperate entities but one big picture.

 

So my answer to "is their such a thing as harmless flirting" is no,

 

because this story and my own observations leads me to see that it always escalates into inappropriate hanging out, phone calls, making plans, etc. At the very least, you want your wife to not give any hints of impropriety to another man, and by the very nature of a flirt, that is going to be a difficult task to work out.

 

Flirting women are self absorbed, but very willful, I think this will be an unpleasant test to see if she will choose the attention of a strange man or the love of her husband. I hope you can work it out, but she really needs to understand somehow that you will not stand for it if this will be a reoccuring theme going forward.....

 

I hope that makes sense?

[squeak]

Yes, do make quality time, and fast!

[Leadnfllw]

I'd be pretty concerned, I know you've been with her for years but I'd get rid of her or start playing the game right back at her and get another woman yourself. From what you wrote she's probably already cheated and if she hasn't then she will soon, I'd give her da boot.

[Percy]

I'd be pretty concerned, I know you've been with her for years but I'd get rid of her or start playing the game right back at her and get another woman yourself. From what you wrote she's probably already cheated and if she hasn't then she will soon, I'd give her da boot.

You make those choices sound so straightforward. I can't just "get rid of her" - she's the mother of my children (flown the nest, now) and next year is our 25th, for goodness sake. And playing the game back isn't in my nature, I wouldn't know where to start. I need to tell her how worried I am, obviously, but I wish I knew where to start

[Lady Aurora]

No, you're being unfair. What I am hoping to get reassurance on is whether there is such a thing as "harmless flirting". Other threads on this site suggest that people feel that there is, with the borderline being physical contact.

 

All right Percy, yes there is such a thing as "harmless flirting", but the question is whether or not that is what your wife is doing.

 

I have to say I was a bit taken back by the strong responses you received. Most people here sound like Internet experts, thinking they can sum up a whole situation in a few posts. So, take the advice with a grain of salt - all from others (including myself) who have no have no first hand knowledge of the people involved or the situation.

 

That said - back to the flirting... What bothers me here is that she is not being completely honest with you. If it was truly harmless flirting than she should have nothing to hide. What isn't she telling you everything the first time without you having to pull it out of her? Flirting has boundaries, as someone mentioned. Is she giving out the signal, that "yes I am taken, but I can flirt in fun", or does it come off with serious intent? There is a HUGE difference. The later I would be extremely concerned about.

 

I think you need to talk with her, tell her that she needs to come squeaky clean about her activities because her behaviour is causing mistrust in your relationship. If she insists that her flirting is harmless, tell you need a sign of faith from her. She needs to cease flirting with this person you are concerned about. She needs to send a clear signal that she is in a committed relationship. This is not an unreasonable demand from her husband.

[PollyIvy]

Hi Percy, I see your situation from another angle. I see you are from England, so in Spain you probably have an expat life-style, which is a little different. I am an expat, and in the expat community, there are a lot of parties, and people go out without their spouses a lot , a lot more than what would be considered normal in the UK or USA. So for me it is normal for her to go to Spain alone - my husband and I travel separately a lot because we have our host country, home country, etc, and to go to parties alone - where I live we all do it, as people are in and out of town so much.

I have been married for 10 years and like your wife, I love to flirt even though I am 40, married with children, and happy. The aging process sometimes gets me down, and it is reassuring and fun to have the attention of other men. It does not mean I want to sleep with them. I have to say, if i had a hot young Spanish guy flirting with me, I would probably be pretty thrilled about it and not want to talk about it and analyze it to death with my husband. What I mean is, I can see why she might not want to tell you everything, it would encroach on HER fantasy. I would not assume that she has immediately leapt into the sack with him.

Hope my perspective helps...

[Percy]

Thanks, PollyIvy and Lady Aurora. Much more the kind of perspective I was hoping to hear and what you both say adds up for me. One question, PollyIvy; do you find it easy to draw the line where your flirting remains "harmless", which is I think a two-pronged question. Do you know reliably where your boundary is, without any concern that one day in the sun with some wine you might go a step too far? And, secondly, do you think there is a risk that you flirty signals might be misinterpreted, so that you might end up in a difficult situation where maybe a guy has come to expect more from your relationship than you are prepared to offer? And, lastly, do you think you'd find it easy to be as open with your husband as Lady Aurora is suggesting, or would your husband be unreasonable to expect that?

[bish]

Thanks, PollyIvy and Lady Aurora. Much more the kind of perspective I was hoping to hear and what you both say adds up for me.

 

Well thats what I thought. You wanted someone to tell you what you were hoping to hear.

 

Its their opinion and they are entitled to it, but neither of them added up all the things you told us.

 

If you wanted to hear that everything is ok, why did you tell us the shady things she does? You sounded like you were even trying to convince yourself that she was no good.

 

Well, good luck my man. I really hope I am wrong, but I don't think I am. Neither I or a majority of the posters here think she is just harmlessly flirting. But you have to make your own mistakes.

 

But again, good luck.

[Percy]

Well thats what I thought. You wanted someone to tell you what you were hoping to hear.

 

Its their opinion and they are entitled to it, but neither of them added up all the things you told us.

 

If you wanted to hear that everything is ok, why did you tell us the shady things she does? You sounded like you were even trying to convince yourself that she was no good.

 

Well, good luck my man. I really hope I am wrong, but I don't think I am. Neither I or a majority of the posters here think she is just harmlessly flirting. But you have to make your own mistakes.

 

But again, good luck.

Thanks, Bish. But again, I think you're being unfair and I think there are both cultural and masculine/feminine differences in perspective here. Lady Aurora says flirting in fun is OK, the question is whether there is serious intent, and I absolutely trust my W that this started about having fun, not about any wish to cheat. PollyIvy says that she enjoys flirting, finds it flattering and clearly is comfortable in her relationship with that. What I have been grappling with is whether what started out as fun might have gone further than I am comfortable with; whether it is unreasonable (or paranoid) of me to harbour doubts; and what ground rules it would be fair to try and establish in the future so that I don't get so upset again. Still work in progress.

[bish]

Thanks, Bish. But again, I think you're being unfair and I think there are both cultural and masculine/feminine differences in perspective here. Lady Aurora says flirting in fun is OK, the question is whether there is serious intent, and I absolutely trust my W

 

If you absolutely trust her, then there is no point in trying to find out answers to your concerns.

 

that this started about having fun, not about any wish to cheat.

 

Huh? If absolutely trust her, you don't think she'll cheat, and you think I am way off base, then why would you be worried?

I think you are trying to desperately convince yourself that she isn't doing anything. And thats ok. Its perfectly normal to want to not think your SO is messing around. Believe me, I've been there.

 

PollyIvy says that she enjoys flirting, finds it flattering and clearly is comfortable in her relationship with that. What I have been grappling with is whether what started out as fun might have gone further than I am comfortable with

 

And what would you not be comfortable with? I mean, if its only flirting, then the only thing I can see you not being comfortable with is cheating.

But you already said you trust her.....so I now don't understand the worries.

 

Polly also didn't say that she goes out without her husband partying, getting drunk, and going off to places ALONE with other men.

 

But like I said, you gotta make your own mistakes. Good luck.

[squeak]

That said - back to the flirting... What bothers me here is that she is not being completely honest with you. If it was truly harmless flirting than she should have nothing to hide. What isn't she telling you everything the first time without you having to pull it out of her? Flirting has boundaries, as someone mentioned. Is she giving out the signal, that "yes I am taken, but I can flirt in fun", or does it come off with serious intent? There is a HUGE difference. The later I would be extremely concerned about.

 

I hope Polly Ivy and Aurora don't mind me quoting them, somehow I am trying to take the ones Percy is responding to and bring up some other points too......I think you need to talk with her, tell her that she needs to come squeaky clean about her activities because her behaviour is causing mistrust in your relationship. If she insists that her flirting is harmless, tell you need a sign of faith from her. She needs to cease flirting with this person you are concerned about. She needs to send a clear signal that she is in a committed relationship. This is not an unreasonable demand from her husband.

 

and Polly Ivy said:

It does not mean I want to sleep with them. I have to say, if i had a hot young Spanish guy flirting with me, I would probably be pretty thrilled about it and not want to talk about it and analyze it to death with my husband. What I mean is, I can see why she might not want to tell you everything, it would encroach on HER fantasy. I would not assume that she has immediately leapt into the sack with him.

 

 

I say:

As a partner in this marriage you seem to be struggling with what you can ask and expect of your wife. You do need more signs of faith from her, as it is the omission of the party that has you questioning where her personal boundaries lie...right?

 

I understand Ivy's point, but at the same time, she is part of this marriage and if you are distressed by the actions, enroachment upon her need for reassurance ( a positive slant) from another man is not boding well for your MARRIAGE.

 

You DO have a right to put your foot down, I think you are really struggling with what is reasonable to ask of her. Just picture this, even if you accept the softer (less harsh) points of view , doesn't it still sicken and worry you deep down?

 

She needs to do what it takes to make that feeling go away. You DO have that right, okay?

[squeak]

I hope Polly Ivy and Aurora don't mind me quoting them, somehow I am trying to take the posts Percy is responding to and bring up some other points too

[Trialbyfire]

Percy, there's a limit to flirting. The more often you enroach on the line of decency, the more you'll be tempted to cross it. Harmless flirting can turn into flirting with intent, if there's chemistry.

 

I get the impression you want reassurance that everything is okay, rather than any real advice or opinions. Do whatever resonates more with you but know one thing. When it comes to spousal cheating, if you're a balanced individual, your gut instinct is usually correct.