Raised well - went wrong

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

I cheat on my wife because I want sex. I've always been very sexual and all the movies and discussions I've been part of made it plain that at various random moments women want sex' date=' but mainly they do it because they're with a guy who wants it. So I was nearly 18 before I had sex with the first girl I was really serious about. She chased me, had to break through my inhibitions, and released the floodgates to passion.[/quote']

 

Hi there!

 

Your post is intriguing because I hear myself in your post! I am a woman who did not have sex until I was 22 with a man who chased me like mad, and whom I ended up marrying. So, I've only slept with one man.

 

But I love sex. My H does too, but after 11 years, it becomes boring. And I am on the verge of wondering if having an affair is right for me.

 

 

 

Again, the physical died down rather quickly,

 

... but why did it end "quickly"? The guilt getting to you? OR was the newness gone?

 

 

 

So, my debate is do I throw away a nearly perfect life: wife who loves me, kids who still want me around, held in high esteem with my neighbors, even an ex-lover who is willing to be a good friend, throw it away because I feel like I want more sex than I'm getting? I don't even have a good excuse like I'm in love with someone else. I don't even think I'd ever feel like I had enough sex even if I found another partner based on my thoughts and feelings over the last 20 years so I'd be throwing it away with the expectation that I'd never have it as good again as I do right now. If women and men had the same emotional and physical urges then this couldn't be an issue, but we don't.

 

It is frustrating to live with a woman who is sexually incompatible. Especially when sex is an important issue with you. To be honest, I faced with the same dilemma.

[herenow]

Hey TC, I agree with you!

 

I think if this OP gets some help to figure out what he really wants, maybe he will figure out what is best for his family.

 

As a BW, I can tell you honestly that I would not want to be married to a man that doesn't have real love for me like a husband should love his wife.

 

Suede may find through therapy and some honesty with his wife that either there has been a fixable breakdown in their marriage, or they may both be happier apart. I believe that if there is no way to regain the love he once had for his wife, he owes it to her to be honest so that she can have a chance at true love and he can move on as well. There are two people involved in a marriage and it's not fair for just one of them to decide what is best for both.

 

But, in this case I think that therapy would help Suede sort out his feelings about sex, love and marriage.

[lonelybird]

I still consider myself a current cheater because I know I'd do it if I had the chance. I used to be more miserable about this. In the last couple of months I've started going more numb emotionally. I can still function fine, but smile a lot less. Whoops. Tapped too far into this subject and started to get a little sad there. I have no real point to this I guess I just wanted to vent. .

Hi, seems you aren't happy EVEN you get enough sex from OW. and you already begin to numb your emotion. There are something deeper than just sex fulfillment in your case. Seems you are more hunger for emotion and spiritual fulfilment.

 

Many of sex just cannot fulfill that emotional and spiritual needs. Sex belongs to our flesh; and spiritual connection belongs to our spirit who come from God. The more sex will NOT bring that kind of vivid love feeling which make people feel alive and worth to live. This kind of love feeling is in spiritual realm, not in physical realm.

 

Sometimes people get numb, get heart hardened because of lack of love. Maybe you are sad because of lack of love? and you tried to fulfill the love need by sex, which will NOT happen. What is your source of love? I find it from God, Lord Jesus. I can feel the unconditional love from Lord everyday, and I found I cannot give love or LOVE others unless I get enough love from Lord. strange, maybe, it is true. When I don't think Lord loves me, I got irriated, anger, less of compassion, but when I feel the unlimited love from Lord, I feel like to give out, peace and compassion. and when you have the love in spiritual realm, the sex with your wife will never dull, maybe your wife need spiritual solution too.

 

Have you tried to spiritual solution?

[ThumbingMyWay]

I believe that one of the ONLY emotional outlets men have is thru sex. It's "proof" to them that their partner loves them. In the absence of it, they feel unloved

 

 

I also thought men just dealt with it and time would lower the sexual urge to make that possible. I've found it's not true. The one thing that truly surprised me was that my love for my wife is tied to my physical relationship with her. I thought love was a separate issue based on purely emotional needs. It never occurred to me that the lack of sex could actually affect the feelings of love I had for my wife.

 

 

First off....SuedeONim

 

welcome...and I like your honesty....looking forward to more....

 

 

Now....ladies...particualy married 10+ years and kids.....listen to what it says up there in bold. WAIT...dont go rollin your eyes and thinking "oh geez, sex talk again?...we just had sex last week".

 

What they are stating is a very true fact in men.....and I dont think its taken as serious as it should be.....

 

wheres LadyJane when ya need her.....she knows exactly what these guys are talking about...

[FavoriteHeadache]

I cheat on my wife because I want sex. I've always been very sexual and all the movies and discussions I've been part of made it plain that at various random moments women want sex, but mainly they do it because they're with a guy who wants it. So I was nearly 18 before I had sex with the first girl I was really serious about. She chased me, had to break through my inhibitions, and released the floodgates to passion. For a couple of months sex was almost a nightly thing and then it changed for no discernable reason and sex became a rare thing. It didn't seem odd or unfair to me, just unwelcome. I'm the worst kind of scum when it comes to sex, there's almost no woman I wouldn't have sex with. Fortunately, I was raised knowing all of this was wrong and I was too afraid to be found out to cheat. My girlfriend became my wife. Unfortunately, my wife's best friend came on to me during a party about 10 years later and I pursued the opportunity. We discussed our mutual attraction, agreed that neither of us was willing to leave our spouses, for different reasons, and proceeded to have a physical relationship. I was simultaneously elated at having the kind of physical relationship I didn't have with my wife and terrified that I'd be caught. Again, the physical died down rather quickly, but the aftereffect of realizing that I didn't really believe in the values I'd been trying to adhere to for 30 years left me with only a prime directive: sex. I've given up wondering why men want sex so much more than women do. Men are willing to risk the emotional repercussions on women because the drive for sex is so strong. Society dictates that those effects are more immoral than any effects on a man that denying his physical urges has. There is no reverse situation for women. Perhaps if it was socially unacceptable for a woman to display any emotion other than to her husband we might have a similar situation, but since that doesn't exist we don't.

 

I'm not right. I'm wrong. I just don't care any more. After almost 20 years of marriage, three children, and an average of 7 or 8 sexual encounters per year I realize I just don't love my wife any more. I thought it was supposed to be this way. Married people just don't have sex much. I didn't know it would become unacceptable to me. After a couple years of marriage and a child already added to our family I thought our love and occasional sex would be fine. Even during the affair I expected to stay with my wife forever which is why it was one of the ground rules with the OW. Only after the affair evaporated and in the last couple of years have I realized that my emotions are tied to this physical part of my marriage. I brought up the subject to my wife on a number of occasions and she listens and then changes the subject. It really hurt at first, but I understand that she's just the way she is and I'm the way I am. I've started positioning myself for a break-up eventually: separate bank account, mailing address, figuring out what alimony and child support would be and where I could afford to live. I'm probably too cowardly to actually go through with it, though. My wife is happy though sometimes annoyed at my moodiness. The kids are happy.

 

So, my debate is do I throw away a nearly perfect life: wife who loves me, kids who still want me around, held in high esteem with my neighbors, even an ex-lover who is willing to be a good friend, throw it away because I feel like I want more sex than I'm getting? I don't even have a good excuse like I'm in love with someone else. I don't even think I'd ever feel like I had enough sex even if I found another partner based on my thoughts and feelings over the last 20 years so I'd be throwing it away with the expectation that I'd never have it as good again as I do right now. If women and men had the same emotional and physical urges then this couldn't be an issue, but we don't.

 

The most likely scenario is that I'll stay in this situation because it's easiest. If I had an OW it would be even less likely that I'd leave my wife because I'd have the one thing that was lacking in my life. I still consider myself a current cheater because I know I'd do it if I had the chance. I used to be more miserable about this. In the last couple of months I've started going more numb emotionally. I can still function fine, but smile a lot less. Whoops. Tapped too far into this subject and started to get a little sad there. I have no real point to this I guess I just wanted to vent. Since I'm not going to find a real-life person to talk to I guess I wanted to do so anonymously. I'm obviously not trying to change anyone's mind about what bastards men can be and I'm not trying to say men should be given a pass because they're by nature more sexual. I guess all I'm saying is that if you have a man who's willing to be faithful then you're already ahead of the game.

 

 

Well bud, you really are in a mess. I catch a glimpse of what I could become if I just gave in and it is scarry. I, like you, have a HELLUVA sex drive and have been unfaithful but I have only done so with one OW and even then it was about a lot more than just sex.

I honestly don't know wtf to tell you. You seem to just be too weak to say no. My question would be why are you so weak? Do you not enjoy sex with the wife? Why would you want so many partners? They aren't all that different really.

I can't pretend to understand what drives you because I have never done such things and can't see myself doing so. I'm not being critical, just honest.

But honestly, wtf do you enjoy about having so many sexual encounters? They're all meaningless aren't they? So why bother?

Do you think you're addicted to it? Probably huh. Then get help.

 

If you don't love your wife anymore, do you think you could ever love another woman and be faithful? Is that even in the realm of possibility for you? What are you going to do?

 

Like I said, I have strayed b4 too and I'm not being judgemental at all. I just wonder wtf you are going to do and what you think you might actually need to be content. What do you see as a solution?

[Suede O'Nim]

I wonder how different things would be if your wife knew what you were thinking, and I mean really knew. If she were to read this thread, what do you think would change? On some level, do you wish she would read this?

 

Nope.

 

I've hinted as much as I want to with her about it. I've told her straight out it's a major problem in our marriage.

 

I want to her to change because she wants to change not because I'm forcing her to. So, I feel like I've probably been more pushy than I should have, but I figured she couldn't realize the need to change without my telling her. Nothing changed. The next step, if I choose to go there, is to reveal the depth of my feelings and if that happens I can't see the marriage continuing either because she'll end it or I will. If she changed solely because I backed her into a corner I wouldn't want to be in that relationship any more. It would all be a lie and both of us would know it and there wouldn't be any point. If we're staying together because of the kids then I might was well let her be content. It doesn't cause me any additional harm to let her be happy. I don't need everyone else to be discontent when I am. Besides, sometimes everything is fine. I'm lost in the cool moment of friendship and kids' birthdays and all the other good stuff that's in a marriage. Sometimes, that feels like enough.

[Suede O'Nim]

Is the amount of sex you would need a crazy amount that your wife would be incapable of fulfilling? You (and she) can't compromise at all? It doesn't sound like she has been trying too hard. If she could give you "enough" sex, would you still need other partners?

 

I don't know the answer to that question. My suspicion is that I'd never be completely faithful. I don't know if my desire is a crazy amount. I always figured it didn't matter what a person's sex drive was as long as they were with someone who had the same sex drive. Low drive with a low drive is fine. At first we were very active so the match was there. Then it wasn't. I figured that was the normal cycle of a relationship. Since I loved her it made sense for us to plan our lives together. If I had known then what I know now I would have ended it. Either I should have waited for a better match or just been a bachelor.

[Suede O'Nim]

... but why did it end "quickly"? The guilt getting to you? OR was the newness gone?

 

It is frustrating to live with a woman who is sexually incompatible. Especially when sex is an important issue with you. To be honest, I faced with the same dilemma.

 

It cooled off quickly because the OW wasn't as into it as I was. She was controlling the situation because it takes two to tango and she didn't want to put on her dancing shoes. In other words I was clingy and pathetic. The newness being gone would have been her issue.

 

Obviously, I don't know how to advise you on your situation. If you don't have kids, just get it out in the open right now.

[Suede O'Nim]

Have you tried to spiritual solution?

 

Yep. God wasn't taking my calls, I guess.

[Suede O'Nim]

Well bud, you really are in a mess. I catch a glimpse of what I could become if I just gave in and it is scarry. I, like you, have a HELLUVA sex drive and have been unfaithful but I have only done so with one OW and even then it was about a lot more than just sex.

I honestly don't know wtf to tell you. You seem to just be too weak to say no. My question would be why are you so weak? Do you not enjoy sex with the wife? Why would you want so many partners? They aren't all that different really.

I can't pretend to understand what drives you because I have never done such things and can't see myself doing so. I'm not being critical, just honest.

But honestly, wtf do you enjoy about having so many sexual encounters? They're all meaningless aren't they? So why bother?

Do you think you're addicted to it? Probably huh. Then get help.

 

If you don't love your wife anymore, do you think you could ever love another woman and be faithful? Is that even in the realm of possibility for you? What are you going to do?

 

Like I said, I have strayed b4 too and I'm not being judgemental at all. I just wonder wtf you are going to do and what you think you might actually need to be content. What do you see as a solution?

 

I've probably given the impression that I cheat often. It's been a couple years since my last time and it was a year before that the previous time and a year before that the previous time. All 4 encounters with the same person. So, I'm not some stud muffin getting a lot of action on the side or anything although I'm sure I would if I could.

 

Honestly I doubt if I could be faithful based on my actions and feelings. If I was with someone who was a passionate as I am maybe I would feel differently, but going by what I know right now I'd have to say it's unlikely.

 

There is no solution. There's only the situation. Either I go on with it or I don't. If and how I choose to end the situation is what I decide on daily.

[lonelybird]

Hi, your brain is like a container. If you fill it most with sex, then in real life, you will seek for sex; if you fill your mind with spiritual things, you can change your behaviour. Change begins from inside.

 

Or devil is using your body, and you cannot control it. but true you is suffering:confused:

[directx]

Hi, your brain is like a container. If you fill it most with sex, then in real life, you will seek for sex; if you fill your mind with spiritual things, you can change your behaviour. Change begins from inside.

 

Or devil is using your body, and you cannot control it. but true you is suffering:confused:

 

Wait, you lost me.

By your logic, if I fill my brain with sex, I will seek sex.

If I fill my brain with spiritual things, would I then not seek spiritual things? Where did this 'you can change your behavior' part come in?

 

At work I fill my brain with a lot of news. How come I don't seek news when I get home? (im actually sick of it by then).

 

Did you make this up or do you have a source of a study?

[lonelybird]

Wait, you lost me.

By your logic, if I fill my brain with sex, I will seek sex.

If I fill my brain with spiritual things, would I then not seek spiritual things? Where did this 'you can change your behavior' part come in?

 

At work I fill my brain with a lot of news. How come I don't seek news when I get home? (im actually sick of it by then).

 

Did you make this up or do you have a source of a study?

I have original source, in Bible

"set your mind on carnal, reap in carnal; set your mind on spirit, reap in spirit".

or

suppose you have two dogs fighting, which one win? Of course the one you feed well.

 

Yes, change begins from within, and if you invite Lord enter your heart, he will change you inside out. It is amazing to see how Lord works:)

Words of God don't work like news. Words of God become alive in you, the more you take it, the more you get it, and words will become reality. Lord give you his peace love rejoice:love:

[directx]

I have original source, in Bible

"set your mind on carnal, reap in carnal; set your mind on spirit, reap in spirit".

or

suppose you have two dogs fighting, which one win? Of course the one you feed well.

 

Yes, change begins from within, and if you invite Lord enter your heart, he will change you inside out. It is amazing to see how Lord works:)

Words of God don't work like news. Words of God become alive in you, the more you take it, the more you get it, and words will become reality. Lord give you his peace love rejoice:love:

 

I had my mind set on carnal during high school and college and didn't reap in nearly enough that I thought I should. I think this failed with me. Now I feel ripped off.

 

And actually, after bible study soon after college, a girl in the same class invited me in her car to listen to a new christian band. In about 20 minutes, we got real 'spiritual'. Why didn't it work? There was no carnal in my mind before that!?

(You know, it is AMAZING how the lord works!)

 

Also, I'll feed my yorki real well for a few days, and starve my pit bull. Anyone want to place some bets?

[norajane]

I've probably given the impression that I cheat often. It's been a couple years since my last time and it was a year before that the previous time and a year before that the previous time. All 4 encounters with the same person. So, I'm not some stud muffin getting a lot of action on the side or anything although I'm sure I would if I could.

 

Honestly I doubt if I could be faithful based on my actions and feelings. If I was with someone who was a passionate as I am maybe I would feel differently, but going by what I know right now I'd have to say it's unlikely.

 

There is no solution. There's only the situation. Either I go on with it or I don't. If and how I choose to end the situation is what I decide on daily.

 

So why put off going to individual counseling? If nothing else, it will give you an outlet to discuss all the thoughts in your head and help you with your daily decision. I don't remember which poster said it, but someone suggested there may be a connection with your desire for illicit sex and 'enjoying' your past abuse. Why not look into that?

 

Personally, I don't think your sex drive is out of this world crazy. I think you've built up all this tension because you're not getting much of it at home, so it's turned into a huge issue. They tell you sex is 'important' to a marriage because it is 'only' important when it's going well - just like money and kids. When it's not going well, it's an enormous problem.

 

If you're serious about saving your marriage, I don't understand why you caved just because she cried when you started marital counseling. That was a great opportunity for you to explain to her that as bad as she feels about going to counseling, it's not nearly as bad as you feel every single day that you are rejected by her sexually, and that you cry like that inside every single day. If you haven't yet sat down with your wife and told her that this is truly jeopardizing your marriage and you're considering leaving, you really, really should. If you haven't told her that you don't see any way to stay married to her unless, perhaps, a therapist can help you both, you really should. LAY IT ALL ON THE LINE.

 

And maybe, if she sees you going to individual counseling to help you deal with the anguish you're feeling, she might get it through her head that marital counseling is the only thing that might help save your marriage.

 

Be a man. Fight for your marriage. Don't cave in and give up because of a few tears. It's your life.

[Suede O'Nim]

That was a great opportunity for you to explain to her that as bad as she feels about going to counseling, it's not nearly as bad as you feel every single day that you are rejected by her sexually, and that you cry like that inside every single day.

 

Maybe. Maybe I'm just a coward and didn't want to have to deal with the mess of admitting that I've been lying to her emotionally (completely apart from the outside sex). The nerve you just touched, though, is one that I've been too timid to bring up to her. It's weird that even as I'm trying to type these words I find it difficult to let go and just admit it. There were many night when I actually cried myself to sleep because I felt so unwanted. God it feels so pathetic to write that and I have to restrain myself from hitting the delete key on that sentence. Wow, just saying that is making my chest tighten up again. I feel like because of all the lies I've told and things I've done and just who I am I deserve all the pain I've gone through, but on the other hand I'm still selfish and defensive enough to be resentful that I have been going through it all.

 

Yeah, I'll have to do the therapy thing. I have zero confidence that it will work because I've heard how rare it is to find a truly competent therapist and I've talked everything out in my head and, those things I can, with my wife. I guess I'll never know, though, unless I give it a try.

 

How weird that it's still so difficult for me to cop to the tears even to a total group of strangers I'll never see in my life. I cry all the time at movies and sappy commercials and love songs, but this other pity crying is hard to admit to. Still, just like my original post, I thought I'd let it out because I can.

 

Everyone talks about the pain and sadness, but you have to actually use the word cry to understand the sense of laying six inches from your spouse sobbing silently in the dark. LOL. Now I sound like I'm playing for sympathy when I'm actually just a jerk. Whatever. I'm going to post this quick before I change my mind and delete the whole thing.

[Meaplus3]

Sex IS necessary it's not just "important" it's fundamental.

 

Heard the old line "Love without admiration is just friendship"?

well friendship is plutonic unconditional "type" love....really how many marriages aspire to achieve unconditional love? Why WOULD you want to have unconditional love? If your partner could DO no wrong, which is essentially what unconditional love is, how can there be any kind of passion or sexual charge?

 

 

If your partner could DO no wrong, which is essentially what unconditional love is, how can there be any kind of passion or sexual charge?

 

IMO I think so many marriages end up in comfortable "Best Friend" sitaution's. I have read that in most of these cases the "Spark" so to speak is pretty much burnt and this can be very dangerous opening up the fllodgates to "Temptation", especailly if you are the type of person who truely need's to be admired in a "Romatic" sense. I am not saying that's it's not right to have a great friendship with your spouse, I think it's important, however there need's to be a good balance of passion and friendship in order to define unconditional love.

[FavoriteHeadache]

I've probably given the impression that I cheat often. It's been a couple years since my last time and it was a year before that the previous time and a year before that the previous time. All 4 encounters with the same person. So, I'm not some stud muffin getting a lot of action on the side or anything although I'm sure I would if I could.

 

Honestly I doubt if I could be faithful based on my actions and feelings. If I was with someone who was a passionate as I am maybe I would feel differently, but going by what I know right now I'd have to say it's unlikely.

 

There is no solution. There's only the situation. Either I go on with it or I don't. If and how I choose to end the situation is what I decide on daily.

 

So in other words, are you saying that you have absolutely NO CONTROL over anything? Is that what you're saying? Granted, we can't control how we FEEL necessarily, but we CAN control how we reacte (with a little practice).

[FavoriteHeadache]

If your partner could DO no wrong, which is essentially what unconditional love is, how can there be any kind of passion or sexual charge?

 

IMO I think so many marriages end up in comfortable "Best Friend" sitaution's. I have read that in most of these cases the "Spark" so to speak is pretty much burnt and this can be very dangerous opening up the fllodgates to "Temptation", especailly if you are the type of person who truely need's to be admired in a "Romatic" sense. I am not saying that's it's not right to have a great friendship with your spouse, I think it's important, however there need's to be a good balance of passion and friendship in order to define unconditional love.

 

Unconditional love? I truly believe I love my wife unconditionally. What happened with OW had NOTHING TO DO with my W. What happened with OW didn't mean that I didn't love my wife. See what I mean?

[TogetherForever]

Wait, you lost me.

By your logic, if I fill my brain with sex, I will seek sex.

If I fill my brain with spiritual things, would I then not seek spiritual things? Where did this 'you can change your behavior' part come in?

 

At work I fill my brain with a lot of news. How come I don't seek news when I get home? (im actually sick of it by then).

 

Did you make this up or do you have a source of a study?

 

 

:lmao:Too Funny:lmao:

[Tomcat33]

 

Unconditional love? I truly believe I love my wife unconditionally. What happened with OW had NOTHING TO DO with my W. What happened with OW didn't mean that I didn't love my wife. See what I mean?

 

 

You love your W unconditionally? so your W could sexually abuse one of your children and you would still love her?

 

C'mon the only time we can even come close to loving unconditionally is with our children, your child could grow up to be a criminal and even though it would tear your heart out and it would cause pain to no end you would still find a way to love them. If your W became the same I doubt it. We can't have unconditional love for partners, I don't think so at least.

 

 

IMO I think so many marriages end up in comfortable "Best Friend" sitaution's. I have read that in most of these cases the "Spark" so to speak is pretty much burnt and this can be very dangerous opening up the fllodgates to "Temptation", especailly if you are the type of person who truely need's to be admired in a "Romatic" sense. I am not saying that's it's not right to have a great friendship with your spouse, I think it's important, however there need's to be a good balance of passion and friendship in order to define unconditional love.

 

Yup that's what I am talking about AP.

And I don't mean passion as in at the begining, I know that subsides a bit after time, but it should not dissapear, in many cases it does

[Meaplus3]

You love your W unconditionally? so your W could sexually abuse one of your children and you would still love her?

 

C'mon the only time we can even come close to loving unconditionally is with our children, your child could grow up to be a criminal and even though it would tear your heart out and it would cause pain to no end you would still find a way to love them. If your W became the same I doubt it. We can't have unconditional love for partners, I don't think so at least.

 

 

 

 

Yup that's what I am talking about AP.

And I don't mean passion as in at the begining, I know that subsides a bit after time, but it should not dissapear, in many cases it does

 

YES! Passion is important even if you live to be 90. IMO it's the desire that keep's you there. In my sad case, ZERO friendship and not a whole lot of passion. What does that spell for me? Don't say it cause I allready know!

 

AP:)

[norajane]

Maybe. Maybe I'm just a coward and didn't want to have to deal with the mess of admitting that I've been lying to her emotionally (completely apart from the outside sex). The nerve you just touched, though, is one that I've been too timid to bring up to her. It's weird that even as I'm trying to type these words I find it difficult to let go and just admit it. There were many night when I actually cried myself to sleep because I felt so unwanted. God it feels so pathetic to write that and I have to restrain myself from hitting the delete key on that sentence. Wow, just saying that is making my chest tighten up again. I feel like because of all the lies I've told and things I've done and just who I am I deserve all the pain I've gone through, but on the other hand I'm still selfish and defensive enough to be resentful that I have been going through it all.

 

Yeah, I'll have to do the therapy thing. I have zero confidence that it will work because I've heard how rare it is to find a truly competent therapist and I've talked everything out in my head and, those things I can, with my wife. I guess I'll never know, though, unless I give it a try.

 

How weird that it's still so difficult for me to cop to the tears even to a total group of strangers I'll never see in my life. I cry all the time at movies and sappy commercials and love songs, but this other pity crying is hard to admit to. Still, just like my original post, I thought I'd let it out because I can.

 

Everyone talks about the pain and sadness, but you have to actually use the word cry to understand the sense of laying six inches from your spouse sobbing silently in the dark. LOL. Now I sound like I'm playing for sympathy when I'm actually just a jerk. Whatever. I'm going to post this quick before I change my mind and delete the whole thing.

 

I do understand. I do. Not in your context, but, I understand.

 

It's that kind of emotional honesty that your wife is afraid of, too, I think. That's what she finds painful - which is why marital counseling brought her to tears. Might be that she has some things inside herself she hasn't expressed to you, too. Might be that she is afraid of what you might express.

 

The thing is, that's the hard work the two of you need to do together - that's intimacy. Intimacy - emotional and physical, is an incredible thing to have together when you have it, but it's not always easy - it involves being raw and open, no pretense, no masks. You have to get there with your wife in order for things to be better. YOu have to express your pain, and you have to hear hers. The emotional honesty is the only way to get where you want to go. If you can't achieve it, you'll always be locked in your own heads and hearts, pretending to each other.

[FavoriteHeadache]

You love your W unconditionally? so your W could sexually abuse one of your children and you would still love her?

 

C'mon the only time we can even come close to loving unconditionally is with our children, your child could grow up to be a criminal and even though it would tear your heart out and it would cause pain to no end you would still find a way to love them. If your W became the same I doubt it. We can't have unconditional love for partners, I don't think so at least.

 

 

I see what you mean but I think we should narrow the definition of UNCONDITIONAL LOVE somewhat in general terms. WE UNCONDITIONALLY LOVE as long as no EXTREME BOUNDARIES are crossed. That 'boundary' is in the eyes of the individual beholder. We unconditionally love under normal circumstances. But if someone goes absolutely nuts then they have caused us to re-examine.

BTW, lol, my wife would never sexually abuse my children. That is an EXTREME example and would never happen.

Under your definition I don't think it's possible to unconditionally love anyone including ourselves. But your definition seems like an extreme one to me and is outside the realm of the usual.

[GregsBad]

I cheat on my wife because I want sex. I've always been very sexual and all the movies and discussions I've been part of made it plain that at various random moments women want sex, but mainly they do it because they're with a guy who wants it.

...

I've given up wondering why men want sex so much more than women do.

...

If women and men had the same emotional and physical urges then this couldn't be an issue, but we don't.

 

 

I'm coming in late on this thread, and only responding to the parts of your quote that I clipped above.

 

You are wrong.

Women who get GOOD sex want it as much as men!

 

It's like a switch that gets turned on inside them, by getting good sex.

 

In many of those cases, women can crave it even more, getting very frustrated and out of sorts when they go without getting laid for too long. They fantasize and masturbate too, some very frequently.

 

If you've had sex with so many women and come away with the conclusions in your post then there can only be one reason. The women you've had affairs with were not getting good sex ... and probably are one of the many women who have not yet experienced good sex from anywhere else ... yet.