Ladyjane14 Posted July 10, 2007 Posted July 10, 2007 It's all about doing things that keep each other interested. The part YOU aren't getting is that I don't HAVE to do vapid and silly things in order to "interest" my husband. He likes ME. The "me" I am on the inside, as well as the "me" I am on the outside. THAT's what makes me responsive to him. It's KNOWING that.
Trialbyfire Posted July 10, 2007 Posted July 10, 2007 :lmao::lmao: I hear ya. It's frustrating as sh*t to try to explain the other side of the story to some of these guys. I've posted with a lady in the Separation/Divorce forum over the past couple of days on low-libido issues, presenting the male POV, and she understood RIGHT AWAY what I was talking about. But you have these "ME-ME-ME" attitudes like this one from SevenMack and it's like they're minds are sealed against the female POV. We are NOT sexual objects. We're people. And we'll wear WHATEVER kind of panties we WANT!!!! Women of the world UNITE! Let's get that made into a bumper sticker. Ooooo... you remember the bra-burnings of the 1960's?. Let's torch up some thongs!!!! :bunny: In order to have a good relationship, you have to be sensitive to each other's needs and desires. Wanting to rule by demands, domination or control is going to net you a no-libido one. Thong horseshoes anyone? Remember, we don't want to burn the thongs 'cause the men need to wear them.
JamesM Posted July 10, 2007 Posted July 10, 2007 Sevenmack, I am afraid that YOU don't get it. I can see that you have not dealt with a low libido in a woman. Did we not see this coming when we were dating? Truthfully, no. It didn't happen then. Even looking back...knowing her childhood, no, this was not evident. She loved sex...or at least gave a great impression. This lasted for quite awhile into marriage. What about when we first had children? Again, no. It did not begin until about eight years ago for me. "Well, surely you saw it coming when you dated." Not a chance. In fact it was all we could do to keep our hands off each other. Well, there must have been something I did then? I have asked her that many times over the years. Never have I gotten a straight or even an evasive answer. I think by saying that this is simply because the men who don't "get enough sex" are not pleasing their wives minimizes what has been said many times. A low libido has many complex reasons. Why? Emotional, physical, financial, and many more. Simply solving each one by itself can take alot of searching. Simply giving an ultimatum to the partner does not solve the problem. "Either start doing things to please me or I leave." What this says to the woman is that..."all he truly wanted WAS sex. He did not care about me as a person." Women are not robots. Men are not rulers. Nor vice versa. And yes in a marriage we should do things to please our partner. But sometimes doing everything possible still does not change the situation. I am not overweight. I am not considered lazy by my wife. She loves to spend time with me. And I could go on. But I am not a perfect husband. If men have to be perfect to get enough sex, then none of us would have any. No, it goes much deeper than simply doing things to please the other. LadyJane has said so many wise things here, but one of them comes to my mind often. What many women who don't feel sex is important need is a wakeup call as to how important sex is to men. Sometimes it takes a marital crisis before they do. It is much more than just a physical release...it is an affirmation of the love between a husband and a wife. Men do not cheat because they don't get enough sex (most of the time)...it is because they feel that the love from their wife is lacking, so they look elsewhere. Would I leave my wife because we have little sex? Not yet...well, actually, just plain no. But life is too short? No, life also has many other responsibilities such as children. Ah, but they would be better off if you were happy? Again, yes and no. In this case, simply leaving because I feel that the sex is lacking is evading the problem and not solving it. I show them that leaving a problem is better than fixing it. And there is no way that they would ever understand that Dad left Mom because he didn't get what he wanted. I can say that I have rarely met a woman on this Board who has a high libido that has been married for more than 10 years. Almost all of the women here who cannot understand why some women have low libidos, have boyfriends or have been married for a short time, and usually do not have children. I did a survey/poll a year or so ago and not one woman answered who had been married over 10 years with children. I would love to talk with one and hear her secret. This would be helpful. Yet I have read many,many stories of men here who have been married over ten years, have children, and a wife who has a low interest in sex. This says a lot for the men who do come here...they take their vows seriously. Very few of them who ask for help have cheated. They may express an understanding for why men cheat, but they themselves have no interest. Why? Because what they are searching for is not just sex with any woman. No, they want sexual and loving intimacy with their wife. Huge difference. So, if dealing with a low libido was as easy as "put up or move out," then there would be a lot less men on this Board. And if it was as easy as "get off the couch and do something for you wife," then again, very few men would be here. Personally, I have lost weight, made our finances more stable, done more chores for her around the house, taken her out more often, and brought her little gifts. Has this solved the problem? Not yet. Yet she says I am a great husband. Any chance she gets she enjoys having a conversation with me. What do I see as the problem? She has no desire for sex, so she never thinks that maybe I do. She thinks of sex infrequently, so it surprises her that to me this is so important as an expression of love. Life is complex, and the solutions seem few. Yet the rewards when realized make it all worth it.
Sevenmack Posted July 10, 2007 Posted July 10, 2007 Ah, Ladyjane. Are you projecting? This will be the last time I make this statement: Again, it's not about "me, me, me." It's about "you and your lover," and it goes for men as well as women. There is no chauvinism here; just good old advice that I've gotten from both the men and women in my family, including grandparents who managed to fix their marriage after the first twenty years of screwing things up. The last 30 years, before my grandmother died three years ago, actually were a lot better than the first twenty and that's because they stopped treating each like crap and expecting each other to just "like me." Here's a reality: As much as your husband likes you, he doesn't simply like you for the sake of you. It's because of what you do for him, especially the good, considerate things. And it's the converse: If he slapped you around, hurt you, failed to keep clean or belittled your feelings, you would not like him. Or love him. Or respect him. Relationships aren't some magic thing that involves people simply liking us. You attract the people who you want in your life by being the person you would want to be around. Which means plenty of jerks out there end up with people who tolerate their jerkiness. It also means that if you want someone who dresses nicely and considers your feelings, you must also be the kind of person who does likewise. Once again, Ladyjane, it would be best if you actually comprehended what I've said instead of projecting. All the best to you.
Sevenmack Posted July 10, 2007 Posted July 10, 2007 And JamesM, I do quite get it. There are plenty of reasons why sex in marriages and long-term relationships dwindle to nothing. Sometimes, it's apparent that she always was disinterested in sex and it's just become a major issue because you've been around her for years. Other times, it's about drugs treating bipolar disorder. Other times, it's about her (or him) feeling less attractive for various reasons to their spouse. It can be plenty of things. What I've said is that in many cases, if you do the detective work, the reality was that the spouse wasn't ever that sexual to begin with. And if you know anything about relationships, the frequency of sex in relationships tends to go down, especially after childbirth. If she wasn't into hitting the hay all that often before you got married, it isn't likely to get much better after. But again, that's just one of many reasons. It isn't the only explanation and it can't be; there are too many people and too many individual issues to come up with one blanket explanation. But I'm offering some food for thought; you can take it or leave it if you choose.
morelaugh Posted July 10, 2007 Posted July 10, 2007 Quite often this is a two way street. Not a compromise as such, but still a give and take. On the subject of thong: I’m happy to wear a thong. My ‘compromise’ when I don’t feel like it, is to wear nothing at all, which works pretty well with my H. But I KNOW he would let me to anal rape him with a sizeable vibe if I wanted to. I know, because (among other things), when I started to feel insecure about his porn use, he immediately offered to stop – and stopped. No ‘everyone does that’, no ‘I’m a man, it will kill me if I stop’ excuses I read on this forum! Now, this is the man you want to wear thongs for! And much, much more. Or less… It’s not always black&white, but I guess, what you give is what you get. ntocitilop: Your wife needs someone to take care of her. What she offered doesn’t show her love for your – it shows her (biological, if you want, maybe even survival) NEED for someone to take care of her. A NEED that, I’m sure you will all agree, (in her situation) must be a LOT STRONGER than your need to have sex. If she ever gets better (which, I’m sure we all hope for), she will deeply resent you for accepting her proposal. You either want to be with your wife or not. There is no middle ground about it. Once you find your ‘female friend’ you will start (slowly) to do other things with her, not only sex. You will go out. You will enjoy life together. How long before you realise you don’t want to be a nurse and want to live your own life? You have a ‘need’ to have your own life, right? You may now think that you would be understanding in the opposite situation, but - first, you are NOT in that situation (and you haven’t got the slightest idea how you would’ve felt) and - second, the situation might be slightly different – say, while you are sick, she falls in love with the other man but never has sex with him, or something else. Things like that tend to happen in the most hurtful way. Look, it’s not that simple. Life is rarely that simple. But sleeping with another person is (almost) never a good idea. to OP: It may be hurtful, unpleasant and maybe even disrespectful. But it’s not cheating. In my opinion.
StayClose Posted July 10, 2007 Posted July 10, 2007 What I've said is that in many cases, if you do the detective work, the reality was that the spouse wasn't ever that sexual to begin with. And if you know anything about relationships, the frequency of sex in relationships tends to go down, especially after childbirth. If she wasn't into hitting the hay all that often before you got married, it isn't likely to get much better after. I assume that you have not done the detective work in every marriage with a low libido complaint, so can you cite the source of your information that people who are not interested in sex with their spouse of several years were never that sexual to begin with?
JamesM Posted July 10, 2007 Posted July 10, 2007 And JamesM, I do quite get it. There are plenty of reasons why sex in marriages and long-term relationships dwindle to nothing. What I've said is that in many cases, if you do the detective work, the reality was that the spouse wasn't ever that sexual to begin with. And if you know anything about relationships, the frequency of sex in relationships tends to go down, especially after childbirth. If she wasn't into hitting the hay all that often before you got married, it isn't likely to get much better after. But again, that's just one of many reasons. It isn't the only explanation and it can't be; there are too many people and too many individual issues to come up with one blanket explanation. But I'm offering some food for thought; you can take it or leave it if you choose. Maybe you do get it, but I guess I cannot tell. When someone says, if you don't get enough sex, then leave....well, that says that this person seems not to comprehend the full picture. Not having enough sex does not equal a desire to leave. If any husbands on this Board thought that was the solution, I don't think they would be here. And if they felt cheating with other women or prostitutes, then they belong to other Boards...seeking approval for their chosen ways. I cannot speak for many cases that you know of, but for most cases I have read here, the spouse with the low libido WAS sexual before marriage and during marriage. Usually something triggered the decrease in sex. The detective work is needed to discover what caused that decrease. It may be disease, mental issues, childbirth, affairs, or a lazy and inconsiderate husband. Most men who have made the effort to come to this Board are looking for that reason. I think most appreciate the food for thought that you offer, but I am guessing that others...like me....felt that you did not really grasp the complexity of the issue based on your earlier posts. If we are incorrect, I for me at least, am apologizing.
JamesM Posted July 10, 2007 Posted July 10, 2007 Sorry Ladyjane14, but that's a bunch of crap. What happens is that at a certain point, people feel they can just 'let themselves go' and not do anything to keep up the good appearances and also to improve themselves. They let themselves get fat, look slovenly and just become sloths who don't go anywhere or do anything. Then they wonder why their spouses lose interest? You want your spouse to maintain interest? Do the things that got them interested in you and kept them there. This often starts with good old fashioned grooming. Or why wearing a thong isn't the worst thing for a woman to do for her man -- and a man should chuck that spare tire. Despite no longer being single, I dress up nicely for myself and the Little Lady, eat right, exercise as much as possible and keep myself well-groomed. If the Little Lady compliments me for wearing a goatee, I wear one because it makes her feel good and keeps the attraction up in the relationship. I'd expect -- and receive -- the same from her. Sure you want your SO to be as comfortable and happy as she can be. But you can be comfortable and sexy at the same time. You have no right to dress like crap for your significant other. Period. You have to do the things that got your spouse to get together with you in the first place in order to keep them. This not just goes for women; a man sitting in hole-littered boxers with 'skidmarks' in the rear area is being as crappy to their spouse as the woman who constantly wears just stained T-shirts around the house. The problem with some people is that they don't give positive feedback when their SOs do stuff such as wear a thong underneath the sweatpants or anything like that and make negative comments when they dress like crap. You have to give positive feedback in order to get positive results. That's the way life works. Now that I've gotten away from my original point of my first post, let's get back to it (and of the thong reference, by the way, showing that you, Ladyjane, didn't get the point): You didn't marry a woman or man who hated sex overnight; that person was like that in the first place. It's just that you likely ignored the evidence before you and stayed with this person in the vain hope that love will conquer all. It never has. And now you're angry about it. Instead of simmering in resentment or cheating on the spouse, just dump her (or him) and move on. Life's too long to remain in abject misery. When one reads this post, it seems to simplify what the loss of libido signifies. It seems that wearing granny and skidmarked underwear is what causes low libido. It seems that men who have wives with no interest in sex have not dressed nicely or have not complimented their wives. It seems that men who have wives with low libidos should simply dump them. Sad to say, no, women are not born with a low libido or a high libido most of the time. If they would have showed or told us while dating that they had one, I highly doubt that most men would say that he could cure her low libido. Yes, some would take that as a challenge...like some men think they can change a lesbian, but most men dated girls who enjoyed sex with them. Somewhere along the way, the woman lost interest. I think that is why some men have protested as to "do you get it?" And when someone comes here and tells LadyJane that she has spoken a load of crap...well, this REALLY goes to show that someone doesn't get it. Why? Because if you have ever read any of LJ's posts, you could not help but notice that she is one of those women who through a marital crisis DOES get it. When LJ speaks, everyone listens. And most men are shocked at the things she says...and they wish that their wives could have coffee with LJK for just a day. So, I apologize if I thought you did not get it, but these are a few of my reasons.
tommyr Posted July 10, 2007 Posted July 10, 2007 Yet she says I am a great husband. Any chance she gets she enjoys having a conversation with me. What do I see as the problem? She has no desire for sex, so she never thinks that maybe I do. She thinks of sex infrequently, so it surprises her that to me this is so important as an expression of love. James, we seem to be in very similar circumstances. Married 12 years, 2 kids, low libido wife, formerly average libido wife until past few years, wife says she is extremely happy in general and with me. Yet still, very little sex. So please tell me James - when did you last make an obvious sexual advance toward her which she rejected? And what exactly did she say? I have been getting much better results (mixed in with some angry periods in between which I am working on) recently by directly ASKING her to come to bed with me, and if she says no, then I immediately ask her if tomorrow morning is better for her. A few things to notice here: 1) since I have the higher libido, I think of sex more often than she does - so I usually must ask her for sex 2) she always has a right to tell me NO, but she also understands that offering me some specific guidance on WHEN to ask again is FAR FAR better than a 1 word negative response Do I miss the old days, when we both had evenly matched sex drives and often she would initiate sex? Sure I do miss that, but like LadyJane has said, a person who isn't even hungry is not gonna walk to the fridge and make themselves a big 'ole Dagwood sandwich, right?
happyfish Posted July 11, 2007 Posted July 11, 2007 It was she who decided that if it was necessary that I could find a female friend outside the marriage as long as I would stay and take care her as the condition got worse and that I would not tell her or our daughter what was going on. I love my wife ever more because she loved me so much to allow me to find another woman. My heart breaks for you and your wifes situation.
OpenBook Posted July 11, 2007 Posted July 11, 2007 I have been getting much better results (mixed in with some angry periods in between which I am working on) recently by directly ASKING her to come to bed with me, and if she says no, then I immediately ask her if tomorrow morning is better for her. Wow, that would sure sweep ME off my feet. NOT. Hell, I'd be angry too. I sure hope all you MM's aren't just laying back on the bed and saying, "Do me honey." BIG turnoff for a woman. HUGE. It's like your need for sex is overriding your need for HER. She could be a plastic blowup doll, for all you care (she's thinking, anyway). When your approach is, "I want you to do me, honey" it sounds to a woman like yet another demand to be met. I, Robot. But when your approach is, "I want to do YOU, my little liebchen, in the worst possible way" - that sparks a woman's imagination. Treat her like the sexual object that you LOVE, that you OBSESS over, that you CAN'T GET ENOUGH of. This is what women really crave - we want to be WORSHIPPED AND ADORED. F*ck the conversation and hand-holding. (We can get that from our girlfriends.) Turn on the stereo and waltz her gently around the living room, holding her close in your arms as if you were holding an angel sent straight from heaven. Look at her like she's a steak dinner and you're a starving man. Bring her flowers for no reason. Make arrangements for a babysitter YOURSELF, and whisk her off to a country inn. A little romance goes a long way.
Ladyjane14 Posted July 11, 2007 Posted July 11, 2007 It's guys like you two who keep me posting on this subject. I've got to get out of here for a few days. Summertime is busy, and my chores are behind. Look in on NoIntimacy for me if you will, and give her a hand if she needs it. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t124056/ Y'all are aces!
JamesM Posted July 11, 2007 Posted July 11, 2007 LJ, it is women like you who give ME hope that maybe I can get through this with my wife. Thank you. If I had a way of PMing you, I would, but since I don't I simply hope that when I post, you will find me. Enjoy your "vacation." But don't take too long of one! Thanks for the tip on NoIntimacy. I think that a man's POV may help...I hope.
Mr. Lucky Posted July 11, 2007 Posted July 11, 2007 Wow, that would sure sweep ME off my feet. NOT. Hell, I'd be angry too. I sure hope all you MM's aren't just laying back on the bed and saying, "Do me honey." BIG turnoff for a woman. HUGE. It's like your need for sex is overriding your need for HER. She could be a plastic blowup doll, for all you care (she's thinking, anyway). When your approach is, "I want you to do me, honey" it sounds to a woman like yet another demand to be met. I, Robot. But when your approach is, "I want to do YOU, my little liebchen, in the worst possible way" - that sparks a woman's imagination. Treat her like the sexual object that you LOVE, that you OBSESS over, that you CAN'T GET ENOUGH of. This is what women really crave - we want to be WORSHIPPED AND ADORED. F*ck the conversation and hand-holding. (We can get that from our girlfriends.) Turn on the stereo and waltz her gently around the living room, holding her close in your arms as if you were holding an angel sent straight from heaven. Look at her like she's a steak dinner and you're a starving man. Bring her flowers for no reason. Make arrangements for a babysitter YOURSELF, and whisk her off to a country inn. A little romance goes a long way. Boy, are you late to the party . The frustration that many men here feel is based on working hard to meet their spouse's emotional needs with no sexual result. They are worshipping, adoring, waltzing, flowering and whisking their asses off. A little romance hasn't helped... Mr. Lucky
JamesM Posted July 11, 2007 Posted July 11, 2007 Boy, are you late to the party . The frustration that many men here feel is based on working hard to meet their spouse's emotional needs with no sexual result. They are worshiping, adoring, waltzing, flowering and whisking their asses off. A little romance hasn't helped... Mr. Lucky Ditto, Mr Lucky. My thoughts. Sometimes it gets redundant to try and keep saying the same things. If it were so simple....
tommyr Posted July 11, 2007 Posted July 11, 2007 But when your approach is, "I want to do YOU, my little liebchen, in the worst possible way" - that sparks a woman's imagination. OpenBook, thank you for posting. As Mr Lucky said, you have missed several months (in my case) and even years (in other cases here) of LoveShack posts in which every possible romantic approach has been tried with equal result - the wife simply wants to fall asleep on the sofa eating popcorn and reading some trashy gossip magazine. The demands (and rewards) of motherhood somehow immunized my wife against all forms of soft-sell romance efforts, so all of the things that used to spark her imagination were (at best) simply pleasant attention which got me nowhere (sexually speaking). If you want to catchup on that history you can search LoveShack but the simple issue is many of our wives have just lost interest in sex, period. But please keep posting because we are always open to new ideas. Signing off now off to lookup the word liebchen
OpenBook Posted July 11, 2007 Posted July 11, 2007 Boy, are you late to the party . The frustration that many men here feel is based on working hard to meet their spouse's emotional needs with no sexual result. They are worshipping, adoring, waltzing, flowering and whisking their asses off. A little romance hasn't helped... Ditto, Mr Lucky. My thoughts. Sometimes it gets redundant to try and keep saying the same things. If it were so simple.... As Mr Lucky said, you have missed several months (in my case) and even years (in other cases here) of LoveShack posts in which every possible romantic approach has been tried with equal result - the wife simply wants to fall asleep on the sofa eating popcorn and reading some trashy gossip magazine. The demands (and rewards) of motherhood somehow immunized my wife against all forms of soft-sell romance efforts, so all of the things that used to spark her imagination were (at best) simply pleasant attention which got me nowhere (sexually speaking). My apologies. I just didn't detect anything (in this thread, anyway) that you guys were trying to make your W's feel adored, in a romantic and sexual way. I got the impression you were concentrating on meeting her EMOTIONAL needs in order to "get some" ... for example, spending the day with her, doing chores for her, listening to her, etc. These are things that a good friend would do, but it doesn't do much for the libido. My point was that the essence of desire is knowing that the other person wants YOU, intensely and completely, and will settle for nothing else. Hence, the comments about the steak-dinner looks. But as you say, you've tried the "soft-sell" approach as well as the Good Friend stuff, and nothing's working. In that case, this is over my head, and I don't know what else to suggest. But I don't think it's your fault. Or hers. It just seems all too easy for long-time mates to fall into a comfortable routine, and the romance and passion somehow gets lost (or just misplaced?? like, somewhere in the back of the attic??) along the way.
Herzen Posted July 11, 2007 Posted July 11, 2007 Perhaps the solution for the sexually disaffected is not to marry in the first place. This Thread with its posts about the daily misery of sexless marriages, betrayed vows and huge frustrations constitutes one compelling argument against marriage. Implicit in the sexually deprived husbands' complaints is that their wives became complacent, sexually uninterested and aloof after the knot is tied. Well, perhaps many shouldn't bother tying the "knot" in the first place--especially when the "knot" causes so much misery and unhappiness to so many. This Thread is the best possible argument for serial monogamy or polygamy in lieu of marriage, which is way oversold as the only mature and proper way to structure an erotic relationship. (Wedding-Industrial Complex, anyone?). Well, guess what? It's not. Marriage is the most overrated of institutions, which the misery in this Thread demonstrates.
Zona76 Posted July 11, 2007 Posted July 11, 2007 Not Cheating. After several years there is a loss of desire. The H is unappealing. W feels she's ugly. Whatever the reason I doubt very much she's cheating. Women don't HAVE TO release their bodily fluids. It feels good sure but as a rule we don't have to. My first marriage was 30 years. His body disgusted me. He had ZERO personality, AND the sex was dull and boring (always was) Your friend can try to seek counseling. Couples going together attending seminars can figure what their problem is. Sometimes it's not worth trying. Pregnancy and giving birth also is a factor. Hormones? I can say this... lack of sex does in fact diminishes your desire and your need. The more you receive the more you want. To those new in a relationship keep this in mind.
Sevenmack Posted July 11, 2007 Posted July 11, 2007 JamesM wrote: When one reads this post, it seems to simplify what the loss of libido signifies. It seems that wearing granny and skidmarked underwear is what causes low libido. It seems that men who have wives with no interest in sex have not dressed nicely or have not complimented their wives. It seems that men who have wives with low libidos should simply dump them. Sad to say, no, women are not born with a low libido or a high libido most of the time. If they would have showed or told us while dating that they had one, I highly doubt that most men would say that he could cure her low libido. Yes, some would take that as a challenge...like some men think they can change a lesbian, but most men dated girls who enjoyed sex with them. Somewhere along the way, the woman lost interest. I think that is why some men have protested as to "do you get it?" And when someone comes here and tells LadyJane that she has spoken a load of crap...well, this REALLY goes to show that someone doesn't get it. Why? Because if you have ever read any of LJ's posts, you could not help but notice that she is one of those women who through a marital crisis DOES get it. When LJ speaks, everyone listens. And most men are shocked at the things she says...and they wish that their wives could have coffee with LJK for just a day. So, I apologize if I thought you did not get it, but these are a few of my reasons. Listen JamesM, I'm not saying that the men who are going through this aren't doing the job. Far from it. In fact, by saying that it's time to throw in the towel, I'm acknowledging that perhaps those guys out there have done so much to improve the situation, but it isn't happening. After all, you can't make someone move to the middle if they want to stay where they are. The reality is that, at some point, your level of misery is overwhelming the feelings you have for this person whom you really wanted as your companion in this life. You're frustrated because she just won't change. She won't change because she doesn't see this issue the way you do. Unless she's willing to change or you're willing to just put up with a sexless life, you will remain in abject misery. And guess what? Life isn't supposed to be lived in misery. There are certainly going to be some bad days, but most of your life should be filled with joy. And your relationship with your SO should be joyful most of the time, even if you have to work on issues. When it becomes more joyful to be away from them than to be with them, when a key part of bonding is basically being neglected, the relationship ceases to be joyful. And ultimately, it will ruin the relationships within the family you have created; children see unhappy parents and they themselves repeat the pattern. I've been in one too many relationships in which the significant others aren't all that interested in seeking middle ground. At some point, one must either accept that and live with the reality as part of the relationship. Or end the relationship. On some issues, the former is the best solution -- you don't end long-term relationships because, say, your wife prefers brewing coffee one way and you another. But on this matter, I just don't see the point of staying, except for the sake of the children. Which is a lie: While divorce does hurt the psyches of children, bad marriages do even greater damage. Besides, most people stay in marriages because it's just too costly (in their mind) to divorce. All that aside, let's be real: Not every man or woman in a sexless situation is doing the job. There are plenty of offish husbands who demand "give me thong, give me sex" and give nothing back, be it romance or taking care of themselves, in return. No one can expect their SO to be all romantic and all when they are being pure jerks. In fact -- and this is probably true for those who are neglecting the sexual aspect of the relationship -- they aren't doing any of the things needed to satisfy the needs of their partners. If they aren't having sex, they probably aren't dressing up very nicely or keeping themselves in shape. Sex, in fact, is one of the reasons why we take care of ourselves in the first place. Ladyjane may have some amazing insights on problems in relationships. But her word is no more coda than mine. Every viewpoint deserves a challenge, even hers. Sorry, but in the world in which I live (I'm an opinion writer by trade), every voice has equal weight and deserves equal challenge. Even at Loveshack. My apologies JamesM, if I seem rather, umm, mean about this. All I'm doing is offering my perspective. You can ignore it or pay it heed as you wish.
cranium Posted July 11, 2007 Posted July 11, 2007 We are NOT sexual objects. We're people. And we'll wear WHATEVER kind of panties we WANT!!!! Women of the world UNITE! I, for one, (and I’d wager quite a few of the other guys here) have not been building a life with an objectified woman. If she FEELS objectified because I ask her to wear something I consider sexy every once and awhile, that is HER interpretation, HER contribution. I’ve suggested many ideas for deepening OUR sexual bond throughout OUR marriage. I’ve suggested talking about it, asking for what WE each want, taking time to go slowly and please EACH other, trading roles, massage and other physical acts without being sexual, stretching our edges, showers, lingerie, etc…not a "ME-ME-ME" approach. But ME still exists and is a party to the relationship, ME still has a male POV. Treat her like the sexual object that you LOVE, that you OBSESS over, that you CAN'T GET ENOUGH of. This is what women really crave - we want to be WORSHIPPED AND ADORED. Wait a minute, treat her like a sexual object or don’t treat her like a sexual object??? Will she treat me like the sexual object that she loves, that she obsesses over and she can’t get enough of? Why her and not me, me, me??? (code word: banter)
Author ntocitilop Posted July 11, 2007 Author Posted July 11, 2007 Wow, I go away for a few days and people get pissed off. I had a discussion with the friend whom this string was about in the OP. I asked him how he felt about the situation which has not changed. He said that he only managed to have sex with his wife 13 times in the first 12 months of marriage and he said he was "a good boy" he and his wife were virgins on the wedding night many years ago. He said that he was going to leave her but one of the few times they did have that rare roll in the hay, she came up pregnant. He could not leave then. He said he loves his kids too much to subject them to a divorce. He said he tried to do everything he could that was nice and did his best to have a good attitude but she just could not get out of her head that had been beaten in which was by her mother saying..."Sex is dirty." He finally got so depressed then infuriated and felt his wife may have married him strictly for a meal ticket. He said that he felt she was a gold digger. I am not saying that is the issue for sure but I can see how it would get that way. There are both men and women who get it and there are some who do not. It appears there are the same on this string...
StayClose Posted July 11, 2007 Posted July 11, 2007 Perhaps the solution for the sexually disaffected is not to marry in the first place. This Thread with its posts about the daily misery of sexless marriages, betrayed vows and huge frustrations constitutes one compelling argument against marriage. Implicit in the sexually deprived husbands' complaints is that their wives became complacent, sexually uninterested and aloof after the knot is tied. Well, perhaps many shouldn't bother tying the "knot" in the first place--especially when the "knot" causes so much misery and unhappiness to so many. This Thread is the best possible argument for serial monogamy or polygamy in lieu of marriage, which is way oversold as the only mature and proper way to structure an erotic relationship. (Wedding-Industrial Complex, anyone?). Well, guess what? It's not. Marriage is the most overrated of institutions, which the misery in this Thread demonstrates. There may be something to your argument. I find it ironic that teenagers are taught that sex is the most satisfying after you've established a committed relationship and gotten married. The TRUTH for many people is that the best sex they have in their lives is with people they've met just recently and are just getting to (for me, that includes my wife shortly after meeting her while getting to know her.) If sex is best left for marriage, then why do so many stand-up comedians joke about there being NO sex is marriage?
Scrivdog Posted July 12, 2007 Posted July 12, 2007 Boy, are you late to the party . The frustration that many men here feel is based on working hard to meet their spouse's emotional needs with no sexual result. They are worshipping, adoring, waltzing, flowering and whisking their asses off. A little romance hasn't helped... Mr. Lucky I would add that what's additionally frustrating is that the dynamic of the bedroom was unilaterally changed by the low-libido spouse after a few years of marriage. While dating we never had to uncover intricate psycholigical pathways to getting our SO in the mood. She couldn't wait to get us in the sack. It didn't matter what the room looked like, what time it was, what we were wearing, the temperature outside, and the value of the S&P 500. I'm convinced that if a wife were able to keep this up even twice a week, we'd see the rate of cheating and divorce plummet dramatically. All of the sudden, while many husbands find themselves feeling the same way sexually towards their wives as they did back in the day, but now they're required to take duty sex whenever they do get it all all. Sure it's nice to buy flowers, have a nice night out, clean the house, etc. every once in a while .. but now it's a necessary prerequisite just to buy the lottery ticket that may, maybe get you some intimacy with your own wife. That just screams "I don't find you desirable anymore". That is why men cheat IMO. They meet a woman who wants them. They're the ones who want to have sex with them anytime, anyplace, and they don't need to buy them a cruise to Caribbean first. This is especially true for guys hitting their 40's and 50's. Because while crappy sex in our 30's was disheartening, we maybe felt we had time to turn things around. In our 40's I think many men now can feel the time running out and they face the very real prospect of no longer ever experencing a satisfying, blissful sexual and emotional encounter with a willing female. The idea that the wife will ever be that seems ludicrous anymore. What the "just divorce" crowd doesn't get is that the wife may not want the divorce in spite of the sexual desert that exists in the relationship. Add the responsibility of children and divorce just doesn't seem like neither the best nor the most "honorable" solution.
Recommended Posts