Author Zapbasket Posted June 27, 2007 Author Posted June 27, 2007 just some food for thought...although your ex had many admirable qualities, you may not notice, but you continue to mention his lack of communication and the damaging effects. do you believe that would change? from your posts, you had already confronted him on your need to learn of his feelings, etc. and it did not happen. why would that change? i only ask because I too, have a very similar experience, along with the LDR. things became very tense when issues arose. do you believe he would talk to a counselor if he couldn't open up to you? i only ask because i believe this behavior is deep rooted, and agree that he probably does not know how nor desire to share his feelings in the way in which you need him to. anyhow, what can you truly hurt if you write a quick note? you are hurting now, so why not just get a final conclusion? You're asking me great questions Keep 'em coming--they're a great clarifier for me. I don't know whether he can change. The last day I saw him, on January 4, he announced to me that 'he is who he is and he's not changing.' I didn't feel in any position to contradict him but in my mind was the protest, "I was never asking you to change." I have a good friend who admits to being uncommunicative like him, and currently she is dating someone who is a writer and VERY communicative. He's impressed me with his facility at bringing up difficult issues in a non-confrontational way and despite that my friend has said she feels "forced" to communicate. As I said above, I wasn't good at separating the two while in the relationship but it's become clear to me that not saying much is not the same necessarily as not communicating. I agree with you that avoidance of difficult issues is deep-rooted--funnily enough his sister admitted to me a few years ago that she has a real problem communicating her feelings, and one of his brothers obviously has communication issues--even my partner noticed that. What's ironic is that my partner initially WANTED me to show him the way to becoming more communicative. He was GRATEFUL for my insistence on honest communication and discussion of difficult issues; I found an e-mail from sometime in 2005 where he said he feels much better after sharing his feelings and that my insistence on communication "has been a real relationship-saver." ANd then in that awful 'get out of my life' e-mail of February 13 he wrote, "I have no obligation to discuss things with you" and "one of the reasons I don't want to discuss things with you is that there will never be enough discussion--just as there was never enough arguing, or phone discussions, etc." It would be arrogant of me to just conclude that "he needs therapy." Maybe I'm the one who needed to cool it in the communication department, and when I wasn't getting the communication I wanted, to LET THE ISSUE GO. Some issues, though, just could not be let go of, and undiscussed they became much bigger than they needed to be. Sorry; I'm thinking out loud here. Strangely, I don't like chatty men, and men who are too pushy see only the back of me as I scramble in the opposite direction. So my partner in a lot of ways was ideal for me except that he chose to harbor resentment rather than keep me in the loop about how he was feeling. I don't know how a relationship can progress like that. I guess I have nothing to compare it with--I don't know how this issue would have played out if we were not long distance. I'm sure that interacting in a strictly verbal realm for the majority of the time was no help--also the psychological difference of having someone you love right THERE rather than creating the sense of them being THERE, through words, in their physical absence. Are you currently in a LDR with someone not-so-communicative? If so, my heart goes out to you. I know it's hard...but even with what I experienced I do believe it can be done. I don't know if I really answered your question!--but it helped to talk it through a bit.
Author Zapbasket Posted June 27, 2007 Author Posted June 27, 2007 Once again I just can't sleep. You know what it really is, maybe--I simply can't accept that it's over. I can't really believe that it's what he wants. Surely when your gut says something over and over, strongly despite all kinds of efforts to shut its voice down, doesn't it mean that there must be SOME truth to what it's saying? I just tinkered on Google, reading articles that advise people break up and never look back. But I have heard and read incredible stories of reconciliation. I don't know why I feel so confused. I don't know what would cinch things for me. I'm not sure that another rebuff would do the trick--because I can only imagine that I will find a way not to believe him...if only because in some ways I feel I know him too well; I know that it is as his mother said to me: "___ doesn't know his own mind." Partly I want to try again to contact him because I know that no matter how much I continue to heal, in the inevitable event that I bump into him, all healing I've mustered will crack like geriatric bone on a ski jump. The feelings I have for him just go too deep--and surely that must be the case for him or he wouldn't have felt the need to push me away with such force and cruelty, no? I'll be honest and say it; it's going to sound awful: I don't think he is happier without me. Temporarily he may feel relief at not having the arguing, and a young man's relief at being free to fool around with any woman he wants who wants him, but when I listen to all the messages from all the 'data' my mind has gathered about him over these years, I don't think eliminating me will rid him of his problems. I can't bear this. Also know that we have NO mutual friends who can serve as information posts or bridge-builders. This is a big city packed into a small geographic space; I KNOW that provided we both continue to live here we will end up face to face by accident, and I DREAD that day. Can't bear it.
norajane Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 His contacting me instead of the other way around woudl constitute a role reversal, which would be deliciously refreshing. A part of me thinks this way: that if my constantly seeking communication didn't work in the relationship... You are far, far more likely to find a deliciously refreshing brand of communication with a different man than with this one. He's not likely to have changed himself at all, including his withdrawal from conflict and refusal to discuss issues, so you aren't likely to get anything different from the trauma and drama you had throughout your relationship even if he were open to listening to you. There will be no role reversal. And you reaching out to him again is just you doing more of the same...always trying to talk to him. Aren't you tired of that? Wouldn't you prefer that things be easy with the man in your life, so you don't have to anguish about talking with him? Imagine being with someone with whom it is not a struggle to talk. sometimes you need to know when to just let go--and that letting go isn't lazy or callous but rather a reflection of your trust in balance in the universe and humble awareness of how little control any of us really has over anything. Yes, things have a way of working out for the best in the end. You can't see it now that you are in the midst of living, but 5 years from now when you're with a man who loves to dissect and analyze and philosophize as much as you do, you'll laugh at how foolish you were to think you could be happy with this ex, and you'll be grateful that he saw that and made the end come sooner so you didn't waste any more time with him. You know what it really is, maybe--I simply can't accept that it's over. I can't really believe that it's what he wants. Of course it's hard to accept that it's over, especially when you believe there was potential and unfinished business and that it could have worked... IF ONLY... The truth is, IF ONLY, is just a dream, a fantasy of how things could have been between you. That's what you are having trouble letting go of - that your idea, your fantasy, your dream of how you two could have been together IF ONLY. You aren't pining for what you actually had, what the reality was. You are struggling with letting go of the dream of what you thought you could have had. Surely when your gut says something over and over, strongly despite all kinds of efforts to shut its voice down, doesn't it mean that there must be SOME truth to what it's saying? IWishful thinking, dear. It's not your gut. It's what you WANT to be true. Your gut is telling you he told you it was over in no uncertain terms and he has not contacted you at all after requesting that you never contact him again. But you WANT something else to be true, and you are having trouble letting go and accepting it isn't true. I'm sorry - I know how hard this is, believe me. And if you feel you must send a note, you just can't stand not reaching out one final time, then send a note...the short and simple note underpants suggested.
tinke Posted June 27, 2007 Posted June 27, 2007 sorry greenclove, but YOU ARE asking that he change. you are wishing for the same person, the same "goodness" of the relationship, but only with the need met of open communication. having been there, my personal experience says NO WAY! people usually revert to who they truly are, and trying to meet your needs becomes exhausting. not that what you are asking is at all unreasonable, but it is YOUR need. some people find it intensely nerving to express their feelings, share emotions, etc. why would that change? why would you settle for less than you need in a relationship? i do know, those unexpressed emotions seem to surface in undesirable ways, and soon, it seems easier to just leave the relationship. there are men out there who do enjoy that openess of talking things out. i t seems you are torturing yourself with deciding to contact him, afaid it may damage the desire for him to contact you first....after 6 mo., he hadn't contacted you...that is factual! it is you who is holding on. so, why go through all this, just write the short note. you will then be faced with having to move on, if no response from him. is that what you are afraid of? the reality of having to let go? it would bring finality to the what ifs.
Author Zapbasket Posted June 28, 2007 Author Posted June 28, 2007 He's not likely to have changed himself at all, including his withdrawal from conflict and refusal to discuss issues, so you aren't likely to get anything different from the trauma and drama you had throughout your relationship even if he were open to listening to you. There will be no role reversal. Thanks, NJ--I'm glad you're here. I want to try to get out of my own mind for a moment by getting more into yours. You say he's not likely to have changed--why not, in your opinion? I feel like going through this break-up already has changed me as I've been forced to question my customary way of doing things. Why would the breakup not have the same effect on him? And you reaching out to him again is just you doing more of the same...always trying to talk to him. Aren't you tired of that? Wouldn't you prefer that things be easy with the man in your life, so you don't have to anguish about talking with him? Imagine being with someone with whom it is not a struggle to talk. One thing I'm taking away from this horrible experience is that while it's perfectly reasonable to ask that your partner engage in working out issues with you, there are WAYS to go about asking that are better than others. I started this relationship with the notion that discussion is imperative, and I wanted to discuss EVERYTHING. I think I need to learn that perhaps that is unrealistic. Perhaps if he'd felt more like he wasn't always on the chopping block to communicate, he would have communicated more and better. This past summer he sent me an e-mail in which he asked that I let go of some of my demands of him. He said, "I feel I could be a much better boyfriend to you that way. I could be much more caring and compassionate." In a subsequent e-mail he said in a huff, "I give you all that I can emotionally, but it's not enough. It's never enough." I'm starting to feel like in some ways perhaps he was right: perhaps my craving for communion and discussion is a little over the top. Maybe I got that way in part because I'd arrived at a point where I was wildly frustrated that he never asserted any relationship-problem-solving, and yet in passive-aggressive ways he'd make his disgruntledness known. But maybe I need to learn to expect a little less in that department. Really, I think I'd go nuts if I had a partner as prone to philosophizing/relational analyzing as I am. I do more than enough for two. I want someone who BALANCES things out--and I thought he and I did that for each other. As the friend who introduced us said just a year of so ago, "Each of you has something the other needs."
norajane Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 Thanks, NJ--I'm glad you're here. I want to try to get out of my own mind for a moment by getting more into yours. You say he's not likely to have changed--why not, in your opinion? I feel like going through this break-up already has changed me as I've been forced to question my customary way of doing things. Why would the breakup not have the same effect on him? Because he broke up with you - he was done at that point. He wasn't thinking, "what did I do wrong? how could we make this better? what if, if only..." He didn't break up with you saying, if only you changed this about yourself, we could maybe make it work. He had already done all that consideration before breaking up with you. And he made his attempts to change the communication between you, as you indicate: This past summer he sent me an e-mail in which he asked that I let go of some of my demands of him. He said, "I feel I could be a much better boyfriend to you that way. I could be much more caring and compassionate." But it didn't make things better: In a subsequent e-mail he said in a huff, "I give you all that I can emotionally, but it's not enough. It's never enough." So, he saw the problem, he tried to fix the problem, it didn't work, so he ended things, only to have you keep coming back for more discussion and explanations until he asked you to stop contacting him. And at that point, he stopped thinking about it and moved on. He hasn't been analyzing his behavior all this time and thinking he should change. If he had, you'd have heard from him in the last 4 months. Aside from that, it's pretty difficult for people to change who they are, intrinsically. If he avoids conflict, that's not suddenly going to stop or change. Even if he wanted it to, it would take a lot of self-awareness and conviction to alter his behavior patterns. I'm not seeing that he even wants to do that much work. Look at yourself as an example. You want to chill out a bit and stop analyzing so much. How successful have you been? And this is something you've realized is negatively affecting your relationships...so you have motivation. He doesn't even have the motivation, and may not even see himself at fault.
Author Zapbasket Posted June 28, 2007 Author Posted June 28, 2007 Wouldn't you prefer that things be easy with the man in your life, so you don't have to anguish about talking with him? Imagine being with someone with whom it is not a struggle to talk. But, NJ (and anyone else)--When is it ever easy in an intimate relationship? Initially with my partner I felt like in many core ways we just "clicked." That's why I started to date him, why I chose him over another ardent suitor at the time, and why I stayed with him. Problems arose...but when and with whom would that NOT be the case? I think it's a very unrealistic notion to expect that the next relationship will automatically fulfill all our deepest desires, or even that it will be better than the previous one. That's just a variation of "The Grass is Greener" syndrome, imo. If something just fundamentally doesn't WORK, or is abusive, or the love just is not there, then of course, you should break free and aim for something more fulfilling. But listening to my friends and reading about relationships it seems that much of the time people attribute their unhappiness to beign with the other person, when in fact the real source of their unhappiness is deep within themselves. The only reason relationships might seem to be "better" as we get older is that we are wiser, i.e., more comfortable with OURSELVES. this imo is much more the truth than that we become better at picking mates. Seeing it as this latter thing, I think, is just a way of diverting attention from the fact that the real work we must do is within ourselves. Don't you think? I don't think I'm being pessimistic in saying that really, I dont' expect my next relationship to be better. It, too, will have its problems, that at times will make me think about walking. I'll be a bit wiser and that will help me navigate the problems and remain fair to my partner in a way I perhaps was not with the partner I'm presently mourning. I mean, isn't it always a struggle to talk, to anyone? Communication is terribly tedious, no matter how deft the communicators. It's this thinking that makes me feel I'd be happy being with him. The love was there. There were some things that were easy between us, and some things that were hard. Our circumstances were extremely trying--and that's the only thing I know for certain. One thing that keeps me lingering around is that doubt: which was more responsible for this relationship's demise--US, or our circumstances? Being long distance and struggling to get our careers going and young and very confused about our paths are circumstances that tax ANY couple, no? What do you guys think?
norajane Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 It's never entirely easy. But it's not always so hard, either. There are people out there - philosophy majors, for one - who are into analysis and debate and discussion. They get into it, the way others get into sports or politics or religion or shopping. It's a passion. You'd have an easier time of it with someone like that because he would 'get' you. He would be on your wavelength, and you wouldn't have to apologize for wanting to discuss and dissect. He'd be right there with you, and it wouldn't be a traumatic thing for either one of you. This IS a fundamental thing that you and your ex didn't share. He felt on the spot all the time, while you were just doing what came naturally. Do you see? I'll give you an example. One of my exes could not get it through his head that 1) when I'm reading, I consider that 'doing' something, and 2) when I went into my sitting room and closed the door, I wanted alone time and it was no reflection on him. These are core fundamental parts of my personality. To him, this was a problem and he would feel hurt when I'd turn him down for some other activity because I was already - in my mind - doing something and busy, while in his mind, it was a cause for hurt and feeling rejected. We could never see eye to eye. Never. But when I'm involved with a guy who is a reader, and who also likes his alone time, there is no friction because he totally understood how reading means busy doing something, and wanting alone time doesn't mean wanting to 'get away' from your partner.
Author Zapbasket Posted June 28, 2007 Author Posted June 28, 2007 sorry greenclove, but YOU ARE asking that he change. you are wishing for the same person, the same "goodness" of the relationship, but only with the need met of open communication. having been there, my personal experience says NO WAY! people usually revert to who they truly are, and trying to meet your needs becomes exhausting. not that what you are asking is at all unreasonable, but it is YOUR need. some people find it intensely nerving to express their feelings, share emotions, etc. why would that change? why would you settle for less than you need in a relationship? i do know, those unexpressed emotions seem to surface in undesirable ways, and soon, it seems easier to just leave the relationship. there are men out there who do enjoy that openess of talking things out. i t seems you are torturing yourself with deciding to contact him, afaid it may damage the desire for him to contact you first....after 6 mo., he hadn't contacted you...that is factual! it is you who is holding on. so, why go through all this, just write the short note. you will then be faced with having to move on, if no response from him. is that what you are afraid of? the reality of having to let go? it would bring finality to the what ifs. One thing I'm wondering is: is it really POSSIBLE to have a relationship at all without open communication? I mean, won't my partner have trouble in any subsequent relationship with his refusal to discuss relationship issues openly Question: you and several others have mentioned that his not having contacted me after 6 months signifies something, some finality. Is there something about the time frame of 6 months that gives that impression? I have friends whose former partners didn't contact them until a year or more after the break-up, and in one case it was 18 months and they're now engaged. I guess the answer really doesn't matter, since who can know what he's thinking except him, but I wondered if there is something about the 6-month mark.... As for what I'm afraid of...I don't know, Tinke. Right now I'm leaning towards not contacting him, for two reasons: 1) since he broke it off and told me to get lost, it really is up to him to initiate contact if he wants it; and 2) because it's not from him that I'll get closure, but from within myself. To get closure from him would involve a level of emotional honesty and openness from him that would be unprecedented. Maybe one day years and years from now, but not now. I need to come to terms with my own behavior in the relationship and get to a point, I guess, where I can love him in my heart without actively hoping for something from him. Ironically I think not only is that the best way to move on, it also is the only way a second chance could ever work.
Author Zapbasket Posted June 28, 2007 Author Posted June 28, 2007 So, he saw the problem, he tried to fix the problem, it didn't work, so he ended things, only to have you keep coming back for more discussion and explanations until he asked you to stop contacting him. And at that point, he stopped thinking about it and moved on. But...he didn't give it a chance to work! Sorry, that's my frustration talking. He NEVER said, "I'm at the end of my rope; this needs to change." He said he had no intention of breaking up with me. That's what hurts so much. Also: what makes you think he stopped thinking about it? Not challenging you, just trying to see things from your perspective. You present a good argument here for my NOT contacting him. Just more discussion. He hasn't been analyzing his behavior all this time and thinking he should change. If he had, you'd have heard from him in the last 4 months. But wouldn't it take longer than that, particularly given how angrily he ended things? Aside from that, it's pretty difficult for people to change who they are, intrinsically. Really? I think while the basic core of people's characters don't change, they can become much more supple in how they deal with the varieties of people they encounter. I want to become someone who's better at accepting silences from other people. I already do a pretty okay job in my general friendships, as I have numerous friends whose style is not to say much--but especially in the past 2-3 years I've found myself being much less inwardly impatient with them (I'm verrrrrry non-confrontational with friends; funnily enough I'm someone who likes my friendships to stay pretty easy). Look at yourself as an example. You want to chill out a bit and stop analyzing so much. How successful have you been? Oh, I'll always analyze. But per what I said above, I think I'm becoming much more accepting of the fact that others don't necessarily have to do it with me, and that in fact--it's actually preferrable to me. I'd kill myself if I were surrounded 24/7 by someone, or people, as analytical as I am. As for analyzing less...well, I have made it a point to go out with friends and just enjoy their company, or go running or out exploring the city, and NOT to agonize over this except when I come to this site. I think I'm becoming better at being in control of my tendency to analyze, at compartmentalizing it a bit in certain situations. He doesn't even have the motivation, and may not even see himself at fault. But...he lost the woman he loved; isn't that enough motivation? Doesn't that inspire some change, to lose a significant relationship?
norajane Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 He didn't lose the woman he loved. You didn't walk away from him with him wanting to keep trying. He didn't lose you - you were there and willing to keep going. He ended a relationship with the woman he - sorry - was tired of trying to deal with. It was his choice to end things. That's why I believe he's stopped thinking about this, that's why I believe he's not analyzing his behavior and thinking he needs to change. And yes, people can change some things about themselves, but they have to WANT to. That desire has to be strong because they believe they would be better off. And then they have to try, with specific changes, like you have. Do you have any reason to believe he WANTS to change, or has TRIED to change, or believes he should change? ETA: and you and Mr. Analysis likely wouldn't be spending 24/7 analyzing your relationship, because you'd be more in tune to begin with. You'd be analyzing the world, and enjoying the exercise.
Author Zapbasket Posted June 28, 2007 Author Posted June 28, 2007 He didn't lose the woman he loved. You didn't walk away from him with him wanting to keep trying. He didn't lose you - you were there and willing to keep going. He ended a relationship with the woman he - sorry - was tired of trying to deal with. It was his choice to end things. True that. Point taken. That's why I believe he's stopped thinking about this, that's why I believe he's not analyzing his behavior and thinking he needs to change. And yes, people can change some things about themselves, but they have to WANT to. That desire has to be strong because they believe they would be better off. And then they have to try, with specific changes, like you have. Do you have any reason to believe he WANTS to change, or has TRIED to change, or believes he should change? Yes: by his own admission, his uncommunicativeness/lack of assertiveness made things difficult for him. He feels always that people take advantage of him, because he doesn't speak up. He gets trapped in his own 'downerliness' (for lack of a better word), because he convinces himself he doesn't have the force of influence to alter things in his environment--his relationships, his work environment, etc. Part of his attraction to me was that I believe anything can be changed, or made better, if you try. He'd say things like, "My soul has died"; "Life is a resume"; "This is what life is, isn't it--you start out in one job and work your way up the ladder for 20 years or so..."--and I'd respond with, "But...your only 25/26/27...your soul has a whole lifetime to soar you just have to give it a chance!"; "But the resume that matters is the one you carry inside, your own self-reckoning, your own thermometer of your happiness and fulfillment in life"; "No, nowadays you can change careers every 5 years if you want; you can do anything, especially someone with your attributes, brains, talent, and credentials." It's things like this that make me say I don't think he'll be happier without me. I don't think getting rid of me has eased his problems. ETA: and you and Mr. Analysis likely wouldn't be spending 24/7 analyzing your relationship, because you'd be more in tune to begin with. You'd be analyzing the world, and enjoying the exercise. A friend of mine who's 16 years older than me (46) has informed me that, "You are an extremely powerful woman. You don't realize it, but you are. You also are far more verbally competent than most people and certainly than most men. I'm sorry to say it, GreenCove, but you are ALWAYS going to find this problem with communication in a relationship." This is what I"m thinking about when I say I don't feel optimistic that I'll find someone who is attracted to joie de vivre like my partner was but who also is UNTHREATENED by it. Really, in my 30 years, I haven't met a lot of guys I'd want to date. ANd I don't think I'm too picky. I guess I just feel like everyone has their reallllly annoying side. Maybe in another relationship, the communication will be better, but the sex will suck--a problem I NEVER had with my partner; he was a WONDERFUL lover--very creative, very joyous, very spontaneous and communicative in bed. Hot damn. That is soooo important to me as I take GREAT pleasure in sex and sex play and have a very strong libido. Or maybe in another relationship, the communication will be better, but I'll have a partner who's not responsible. My partner ALWAYS met his obligations. If he said he'd be there or take care of something, he'd be there, and he'd have taken care of that something within the time frame he promised. That is also important to me--I just really can't tolerate sloppy men who don't follow through.
Raspberry Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 Ok, at one time you had a great relationship but it is time to stop fighting that he broke up with you. If he wanted to be with you, he would have called you by now. It's the harsh reality, he fell out of love with you, no matter how you try to convince yourself that he still loves you. Saying that he might be waiting for you to contact him is just not logical. If he wanted to be with you, he would be calling and apologizing for the way he broke up with you and asked you not to contact him. The truth is that when a man breaks up with you, that is because he is not happy. He doesn't want to work on fixing things because he isn't in love with you anymore and wants the opportunity to find someone who is right for him longterm. Yes, you spend five years with him but relationships and marriages which have lasted longer also end when one or both of the parties decide they are not happy in the relationship and want out. Please do yourself a favor with all the analyzing and trying to convince yourself that he really does love you and wants to be with you because the harsh truth is he does not, and he does not love you even to the point that he doesn't want any contact with you. Is he acting like he wants to be in a relationship with you? When he starts contacting you and acting like he wants to be in a relationship with you, then you have some reason to believe he still loves you, but he has given you no indication that he wants you in any way, shape, or form in his life. He had great sex with you and he STILL doesn't want you in his life. All of the good times you had in the past really don't matter, because NOW he doesn't want you in his life. I'm sorry but I hope this helps you move on and accept that you don't have a future with this man in any way, shape, or form.
possumgirl83 Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 a little backeground *my "fiancee" is in the navy and currently underway *i found a profile of his on a dating site... yet he had not contacted anyone nor had he been contacted *our wedding is august 11, 07 *that means its in 45 days yesterday i recieved a email from him basically telling me he wants to cancel the wedding! yeah we've had our little problems, and our big problems but nothing that would cause him to call off the wedding no explanation nothing, if anything i should be the one to call it off.... anyways in the email he also said he wanted to work things out and still be together.... work what out? what could be going throught his itty bitty mind that would make him think i would stay with him after this? i had already decided the site wasnt a huge deal and i love him and i wanted to marry him... and now this im heart broken and confussed, i dont understand why he would do this now?
norajane Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 a little backeground *my "fiancee" is in the navy and currently underway *i found a profile of his on a dating site... yet he had not contacted anyone nor had he been contacted *our wedding is august 11, 07 *that means its in 45 days yesterday i recieved a email from him basically telling me he wants to cancel the wedding! yeah we've had our little problems, and our big problems but nothing that would cause him to call off the wedding no explanation nothing, if anything i should be the one to call it off.... anyways in the email he also said he wanted to work things out and still be together.... work what out? what could be going throught his itty bitty mind that would make him think i would stay with him after this? i had already decided the site wasnt a huge deal and i love him and i wanted to marry him... and now this im heart broken and confussed, i dont understand why he would do this now? Welcome to Loveshack! You should start a new thread of your own to get advice for your situation. You'll get a lot more responses for your situation that way, as GreenCove has in her thread here.
norajane Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 GreenCove, if you're the optimist who thinks things can get better if you try, and you can reinvent yourself multiple times over a lifetime, then apply that to this situation! Be optimistic that there is a better fit out there for you, that you will have great sex with him, and that your love life isn't over at 30. Yeah, maybe things didn't go according to plan for you, but that's part of life. Accept it, and embrace a new plan.
Author Zapbasket Posted June 28, 2007 Author Posted June 28, 2007 Ok, at one time you had a great relationship but it is time to stop fighting that he broke up with you. If he wanted to be with you, he would have called you by now. It's the harsh reality, he fell out of love with you, no matter how you try to convince yourself that he still loves you. Saying that he might be waiting for you to contact him is just not logical. If he wanted to be with you, he would be calling and apologizing for the way he broke up with you and asked you not to contact him. The truth is that when a man breaks up with you, that is because he is not happy. He doesn't want to work on fixing things because he isn't in love with you anymore and wants the opportunity to find someone who is right for him longterm. Yes, you spend five years with him but relationships and marriages which have lasted longer also end when one or both of the parties decide they are not happy in the relationship and want out. Please do yourself a favor with all the analyzing and trying to convince yourself that he really does love you and wants to be with you because the harsh truth is he does not, and he does not love you even to the point that he doesn't want any contact with you. Is he acting like he wants to be in a relationship with you? When he starts contacting you and acting like he wants to be in a relationship with you, then you have some reason to believe he still loves you, but he has given you no indication that he wants you in any way, shape, or form in his life. He had great sex with you and he STILL doesn't want you in his life. All of the good times you had in the past really don't matter, because NOW he doesn't want you in his life. I'm sorry but I hope this helps you move on and accept that you don't have a future with this man in any way, shape, or form. Okay, very harsh, you have a point but still I don't think it's as uncomplicated as that he stopped loving me and that's why he left...but you're right that I may as well take it that way since he's said and done nothing since I last saw him on Jan. 4 to contradict such an interpretation. So, ouch. And a question for you--why "by now"? I've asked this before and no one answered--why if he hasn't contacted me BY NOW it means he wants nothing to do with me ever? I'm asking because my hope is very tenacious and keeps me thinking, surely, surely I will hear from him. What I"m really struggling with is that he's forced me to sever a whole chunk of my life and he just severed me without even really trying. He might think he tried, but he was passive and yes he called me every day but when he moved here he basically made it impossible for us to move in together; he acted like a total ass. But you're right, that's in the past. Sorry, I just wouldn't do someone I'd spent 5 years of my life with this way. Even if it was just for my own sake, I wouldn't do it. So I simply can't understand it and I really don't know how to handle it. I've pretty much talked myself out of writing to him...not totally, but almost totally. And really--he didn't have a hard time after this? Isn't it hard to absolutely sever someone from your whole existence to whom you had only recently said, in great earnestness and fervor, "I want to be with you forever"? Thanks for commenting. your words hurt, but they're honestly put and I appreciate it. I don't know if you're male or female but hey people out there--like Underpants I'd be interested in hearing a guy's pov on all I've raised here.
underpants Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 How are you holding up Greencove? I think Rasberry was just trying to give you some tough love. After reading all of this I am thinking maybe you should not contact him (although I think our letter rocks). Why, I am now moving towards letting this dog lie so to speak? When I (objective POV here) see that ultimately he chose to end things. He made the decision. In my experience, sometimes when things seem so out of control, or obsessive trains of thought seem to make me rack my brain for answers. The best answer or explanation is often the simpliest. I have learned over the years that when something really confuses me to take it as a cue to back off and ponder it, then form a rational solution. Not so easy when you add emotions in the mix. Time and distance usually lend a sense of closure to all things. I think folks are saying 'By Now' to try to sway you into letting it go. This is much easier said then done, but ultimately at some point you need to start focusing your thoughts in a more positive direction for you. It sounds as though you had a great relationship that lasted longer then some marriages do. That is still something to be proud of and perhaps parts of his personality you can still seek out in others, in the future. Life is about accumulating little experiences here and there and you will always have that. You sound pretty awesome and when you finally decide to peek out of your intellectual rabbit hole I am sure there will be plenty of boy bunnies hopping about all around you. :bunny::bunny::bunny::bunny::bunny::bunny::bunny::bunny::bunny::bunny::bunny: I have posted alot here and never....NEVER....before used those silly icons. For you Greencove I make an exception. Hang tough, Unders
hurtandbetrayed Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 GreenCove: I posted this in my thread but thought it may be applicable to you too. I am remorseful for having contacted my ex in the first 3 weeks, if you have gone since FEBRUARY DO NOT UNDO THAT WORK!!!! I only wish now that I had not contacted him at all; I did so good for the first 8 days (the longest we had gone without talking to each other). Now, from days 9 - 17, I have contacted him 4 times (and responded to his only contact)! That is an average of every other day! I was so proud of myself and was so staunch in my no contact. Then I kept hearing from mutual acquaintances how hard it was for him, how 'he missed his best friend' and missed talking to me, and I was so STUPID and GAVE IN. I probably only succeeded in reminding him why he broke up with me in the first place. Now he probably does not miss me at all. I feel like I lost all the dignity and strength I established at the beginning of the breakup. This sucks!!! All I had to hold onto was that strength and respect and I gave in to weakness and deeply regret it! Even though I haven't done any begging, I do regret that I expressed how sad I was at his decision, I disagreed with his choice, I tried to remind him of the good times, I asked (and was informed) that he is talking with girls (after less than 3 weeks from the end of a 5yr relationship!), I told him I loved him/told him I hated him, I tried to find that man that I loved, but there is no use in doing that, it is FUTILE! Today, day 17, feels just as bad as day 1 now! NO CONTACT!!!!
tinke Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 yikes!!!! quite honestly, i cannot believe the constant debate with yourself to contact him or not. you MUST exhaust yourself!! i agree with the other posts, that yes, he would have contacted you by now if he were, indeed ,interested. i believe you are the only one not able to face this harh reality. yes, i am sure exes contact after 6 mo., but in the meantime, i do not believe after so much time has passed with no communication (yet, a firm leave me alone), people don't generally keep themselves fixed in that time. 6 mo., have passed and you are STILL stuck like it were the present, and waiting for him to contact you. it is time to accept what is, and move on living for yourself. if in time, as you may believe, he contacts you..ok. but, i am sorry, it is time to face reality. since you were the one doing the communicating and reaching out, i'm sure you wondered...if i was not the first to contact him, would he open up and express his feelings and flood me with his love??????????? NO,NO,NO!!!! you got your answer from him...no answer! sorry, i know it is tough. but, you seem to be hanging on to those times as if they just happened. 6 months is a lot of healing time, a lot of reflection time. you don't seem to be going in the direction of healing, it will make this process so much more painful and long lasting. i was in a much longer relationship, and i too, as many others was in disbelief. BUT..i kept telling myself, he does not love me, he chose to leave. this has helped me to accept and put things into perspective. you are over-analyzing something that is non-exsistent. wasting your energies on something that no longer is.
Author Zapbasket Posted June 29, 2007 Author Posted June 29, 2007 Tinke, sorry, but there is no time limit after which it is "abnormal" to feel bereft and confused about a painful breakup. Certainly implying such to someone in pain does not help. My friends, who know me well, are very blunt with me and all say what I'm going through is perfectly NORMAL. You know the surface, but you don't know the depth--and you do not know ME, and nor do you know my former partner. I really loved him and cared for him and invested a LOT into this relationship, and it's been only 4 months since he sent me an e-mail the likes of which I never to that point knew someone could send, and thank you, I think I"m handling things just fine, considering. On the outside, to people who don't know me, I seem like I'm doing great. My life moves foreward and my heart is a little slow to catch up. People suffer for years sometimes after ugly breakups. I will feel sad deep down for a long time that something so longstanding had to end so unpleasantly, let alone end at all. That doesn't mean I am not moving on. Sorry, but there's helpful commentary, and then there's someone who doesn't know you coming on and saying something vaguely insulting and your last post fell into the later category. No big deal, but this is my thread where I'm working honestly to come to terms with a difficult and painful situation and I don't need to be told that these efforts are somehow abnormal. I'd rather be honest with myself about how deep this goes, how hurtful it is, then pretend as so many people do that they don't care, when meanwhile the remain completely oblivious how their choices and life view have become constricted by their inability to deal effectively with their pain. I'm a strong woman, I'm pulling through fine, and rather than walk away and block the pain from memory I'm trying to learn lessons from this bad situation. To that end, I'm gonna talk about my struggle as I struggle. That's what this site is for. That is not weakness. I can write here and move on with my life the other 23.5 hours of the day.
sao2 Posted June 29, 2007 Posted June 29, 2007 Sometimes these things, even if you appear to have moved on, stick with you for years. After my first big break-up, I wasn't just still grieving after 4 months, I was still very much broken and bitter. I didn't really become ready to be in a relationship again until after I was already in another relationship a year or two later.(unfortunately for her, I was not yet ready when I got into that one) I still have issues relating to how that first big relationship of mine ended, I say grieve as long as you need to as long as you go back to being a functional human being. Don't grieve for those that break your heart, grieve for those whose heart you break, it's time better spent. Easier said than done.
tinke Posted June 29, 2007 Posted June 29, 2007 sorry it was perceived as an insult. but, you had posed the question of the significance of 6 mo. i simply meant to imply that at that time frame, most would have to begin accepting that it is truly over. at least, try to move on, and if he should call..well who knows, you may not even be interested any longer. i don't recall (without going back to re-read) my saying anything was "abnormal" or that you are "weak", those are your words. it is all in an individual's own time frame. i was only bringing to point the energies on whether to write or not. you seem to clearly need some form of communication yet from him. i do understand, i needed to hear something myself...leave me alone, stop calling, something!!! i never did! so why not just write, if he doesn't reply...no harm done.
Raspberry Posted June 29, 2007 Posted June 29, 2007 Why is this guy worth the trouble and pining? You have stated yourself that he treated you like an "ass." Do you think that will change? Why is he worthy of your devotion, six months after the breakup? Also, you have insisted that if you DO get back together, there are some of his behaviors that would be unacceptable to you. Do you really think he would be willing to change for you? I don't think so, that's why he broke up.
Author Zapbasket Posted July 1, 2007 Author Posted July 1, 2007 Thanks for the comments everyone. So today... Today, like last Sunday, was really hard for me emotionally. I woke up this morning with tears already coming down. After having quelled last week's impulse to write to him thanks to posting on here and your comments and a couple of talks with good friends, the impulse arose again. So, once again I am coming here to seek help with sorting out what's best to do. I see three things happening when I feel desperate to write to him. First, is this feeling that I lost out on Mr. Perfect. My partner has a very loving, intelligent, kind, fun and funny and close family. He enjoys hanging out with his siblings, his parents are just wonderful people, and his extended family is lovely, as well. Then, he comes from what is considered one of the most beautiful cities in the world. There, everyone does activities that I have loved all my life--kayaking, skiing, hiking, camping, waterskiing--all amid some of the most beautiful scenery in the world. He still has friends from elementary school, and they all are very close-knit, keeping one another abreast of what's going on in each others' lives, visiting each other in their respective cities, and every Christmas getting together for a huge skating party and ski-fest at one of the world's most infamous ski resorts, where several families have lodges. On top of that, he is in quantitative finance, and will always be financially secure. As I said earlier, he is handsome, and well-liked by everyone. I was awed by his family, because I have no family of my own. My dad committed suicide when I was two, and his family, not understanding depression, felt somehow my mother was at fault and this created distance, so I didn't grow up with that side of the family close by. They'd send gifts, but my grandmother never saw me again because she couldn't bear the visible reminder of her son. Until I was nine, my mother and I lived in the south with her family all close by. But when my mother remarried and we moved up North, her parents disowned her for several years because she married a Jewish man. So there wasn't a lot of visiting back and forth there. My stepfather was a nasty man, who punished me harshly for the most minor of infractions, and he finally divorced my mother when I was 23 and I never thought about him since. This experience has left me yearning for a solid, loving family...and with my partner's family I felt that. His dad LOVED me--my partner said he'd never seen his dad respond to someone the way he responded to me--and I felt so happy as it seemed I'd finally have the dad I'd always dreamed of having. I have this sick feeling that part of why my partner broke up with me is because I don't have a stable family and milieu like he does, and he somehow judged me for it. (Do you think that's possible?) So there's that--the feeling like I lost my chance to have the stable, loving family and beautiful milieu I'd always dreamed of. When I think this way, my partner seems like a God. And in comparison, I feel like this bedraggled mess who simply was out of her league Phew, I was going to say more but I'll leave off for now. This is part of where my mind goes. It makes me feel very small.
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