IfWishesWereHorses Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Question for the BS's out there, those who have successfully reconciled and those who are battling with reconciliation. This post by Sheba on another thread got me thinking... He had an affair. As a result, you have a problem trusting him. Now he is mad at YOU for having a problem trusting him? He should be mad at himself for creating that problem. I find it very ironic that people who breach trust get mad when they are no longer trusted. What did it/would it take for the WS to rebuild trust after an affair? What steps could one take, what should be expected of them? Is anger over a BS expecting them to no longer engage in activities which lead to the affair expected? Should they be willing to change these things or should they expect the BS to deal with their emotions regarding these issues on their own so that they don't have to deal with the personal outcome of the affects of their actions on their self-proffessed love one. What actions does it take? Does the WS owe the Bs some type of restitution? How exactly would it, could it be resolved in your opinion? How can a WS prove his/her dedication? Would it be to much to ask a BS to accept not having full disclosure? What about the hurt and anger of the BS, should the WS be bothered by those unpleasant things or is that too much to ask?
FireandIce Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 I think the only thing that can rebuild trust is time and commitment. The trust is totally gone in our marriage and my WH knows that. Maybe I'm not the right person to answer this since I just found out yesterday that my WH is still keeping things from me. The only way he can get my trust back is to prove to me that he is 110% commited to our marriage and making this work, plain and simple. He needs to stop worrying about everyone else's feelings (ie the OW) and start worrying about mine. Honestly I don't know how long it will take to get the trust back but I don't think a WH has any right to get angry because they are no longer trusted. They lost that when they decided to go out and have an affair! If they are so concerned about the marriage that they claim to want then maybe they should be more intune with their BS' feelings and deal with things as they come.
Author IfWishesWereHorses Posted June 19, 2007 Author Posted June 19, 2007 Fire and Ice, I believe in one of your post that you say that your husband lied to protect your feelings. If building trust is on never lying again, how does lying to protect someones feelings come into play? Was it your feelings he was protecting or was it his own desire not to have to deal with you feelings on the matter? I'm asking because this has come up in a personal conversation recently. Thank you for responding, I realize these types of threads are no fun, but there are several threads out there that the bottom line is about rebuilding trust and the cheaters still seem to be expecting the WS to deal with all of the heart ache that they have caused and not to be accountable themselves. And they call that love????
believinZ Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Question for the BS's out there, those who have successfully reconciled and those who are battling with reconciliation. This post by Sheba on another thread got me thinking... He had an affair. As a result, you have a problem trusting him. Now he is mad at YOU for having a problem trusting him? He should be mad at himself for creating that problem. I find it very ironic that people who breach trust get mad when they are no longer trusted. What did it/would it take for the WS to rebuild trust after an affair? What steps could one take, what should be expected of them? Is anger over a BS expecting them to no longer engage in activities which lead to the affair expected? Should they be willing to change these things or should they expect the BS to deal with their emotions regarding these issues on their own so that they don't have to deal with the personal outcome of the affects of their actions on their self-proffessed love one. What actions does it take? Does the WS owe the Bs some type of restitution? How exactly would it, could it be resolved in your opinion? How can a WS prove his/her dedication? Would it be to much to ask a BS to accept not having full disclosure? What about the hurt and anger of the BS, should the WS be bothered by those unpleasant things or is that too much to ask? Great questions. I have no real answers just opinions. I also have an H who tends to act gilted or defensive when I get resentful, quiet, or ask where he has been or who is on the phone. I mean, I want to trust him, but I don't. What will it take... to not, under any circumstances give me any reason to doubt your sincerity, pay attention and be patient to my pain, validation of my pain and emotional ride, and always ALWAYS be appreciative of the love that has stood by you FAITHFULLY ... I dont know... I'm sure I have more, but for some reason this is difficult to think about because I almost get mad at myself for not being able to trust ... anyone really... trust is such a very precious gift one gives to another human... really how DOES one create that bond after it has been severed like a nerve being sliced in your spine...it shuts down more than one function... it affects so many smaller things you just never really knew were so vital because they were just so... there. I'm rambling now...sorry
FireandIce Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Fire and Ice, I believe in one of your post that you say that your husband lied to protect your feelings. If building trust is on never lying again, how does lying to protect someones feelings come into play? Was it your feelings he was protecting or was it his own desire not to have to deal with you feelings on the matter? I'm asking because this has come up in a personal conversation recently. I think it's a bit of both actually. The WS knows that contact from the OW hurts the BS and they don't want to upset them so they keep it to themselves. I also believe that the WS knows how upset the BS is going to be and instead of telling the truth and dealing with it they find it's easier to just keep it quiet so they can avoid the whole thing. Thank you for responding, I realize these types of threads are no fun, but there are several threads out there that the bottom line is about rebuilding trust and the cheaters still seem to be expecting the WS to deal with all of the heart ache that they have caused and not to be accountable themselves. And they call that love???? I think rebuilding the trust is what 95% of these threads are all about. From what I have read, it seems as though most WS (including my own) believe that just being there with their BS and telling them that the affair is over should be enough. Well it isn't. While my WH knows how hard this has been I don't think he truly knows what I feel everytime I find out that he has told even the smallest lie (whether it's to protect me or not). He believes that since he is there holding my hand and telling me that he loves me and only me, well he thinks that is enough to prove to me that everything is fine. It's not fine and that's why I believe only time and commitment can rebuild trust in a marriage.
Author IfWishesWereHorses Posted June 19, 2007 Author Posted June 19, 2007 From what I have read, it seems as though most WS (including my own) believe that just being there with their BS and telling them that the affair is over should be enough. Right, but being there holding your hand doesn't help. I've heard that time and time again. I'm here with you. SO WHAT, that doesn't make me feel any better about what you've done! You are here with me. WELL LUCKY ME! So what is it then that will show remorse, fix what you broke, rebuild trust... It's darn sure not lying for any reason.
FireandIce Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Right, but being there holding your hand doesn't help. I've heard that time and time again. I'm here with you. SO WHAT, that doesn't make me feel any better about what you've done! You are here with me. WELL LUCKY ME! So what is it then that will show remorse, fix what you broke, rebuild trust... It's darn sure not lying for any reason. I agree. I'm really not sure what would help but like I said, hopefully time will. It's a hard thing to deal with and I really don't think the WS truly understands. Yeah they know the BS is hurting and they are the cause of it but I don't think they understand that it feels like someone has ripped your heart out, stomped on it, torn it to shreds and then had a change of heart, tries to repair the damage and hand it back to you. Sure, it's all in one piece again but it's not really fixed.
believinZ Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 From what I have read, it seems as though most WS (including my own) believe that just being there with their BS and telling them that the affair is over should be enough. Right, but being there holding your hand doesn't help. I've heard that time and time again. I'm here with you. SO WHAT, that doesn't make me feel any better about what you've done! You are here with me. WELL LUCKY ME! So what is it then that will show remorse, fix what you broke, rebuild trust... It's darn sure not lying for any reason. I loved your "WELL LUCKY ME!"... me thinks I hear sarcasm :-) Don't you just want to stand at the top of the world and scream... WHY... WTF...??? There is really no way, in my opinion and from what I have been reading, that the WS or OW could possibly understand the deep pain that breaking this type of vow causes... I mean IT IS physical pain blended with the most horrendous amount of emotional pain... and simply holding my hand is not going to make me heal... it helps... sure it does... BUT it is not the "medicine" that will actually do the work that needs to happen to repair what's been ruptured at the seams of what is right and worthy of trust... a vow before God... how exactly does one decide to break THAT vow... here is me again standing at the top of the world screaming...WTF...
Pilgrim Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 Great thread. I like you guys/gals. Really good questions. I'd say I'm 15% rebuilt on the trust side, after 10 months. Things that hindered (mainly in the early days): 1. My W's on line email, not using our shared outlook email. 2. Coming home to find a guy I know had popped round. (The infidelity had previously happened at our house when I was at work) 3. Getting used to her getting text messages again (she did a lot of inappropriate phone stuff with the OM) 4. Her retaining confidence of the OM over an issue. 5. Finding a post, in the early days, on a forum where she advised another woman considering starting an affair and didnt advise against it, just to suss out what this woman (selfishly) wanted. 6. That it only came out because they were discovered by his BS who also knows me. Things that helped (mainly in more recent days): 1. Her not making any demands on me to trust more / faster, and not having any expectation of a right to be trusted. 2. Having / agreeing a plan of what she would do if the OM contacted her again - and her doing it. 3. The OM being a complete git in order to avoid losing his own marriage (he's married too, and made her out to be a stalker with some deft lies and manipulation) 4. Finally asking the question "what would you do if someone else as good/ better comes along again" and talking about why she would not want to repeat it. 5. She has been understanding about changes (willing for me to see all her private emails and have her password, living with it when I read her texts before she does, sometimes - I do that a lot less nowadays) 6. She and he both changing their mobile numbers. Technically she knows where he works so could track him down, but its a lot easier to succumb to temptation by two clicks on a mobile speed dial when alone in your bedroom. 7. Open-ness, and no surprises. Gradually over time. Even now, I see a car I dont recognise outside the house when I get home, and I'm still thinking whether it is another OM. It is getting less intense, but still is there. I doubt I'll ever reach 100% trust, but I'm hopeful of getting up to the 90s eventually!
Lynna Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 One big step for me in recovering trust in my H is the fact that he, on his own, just set up an appointment to start counseling. He acknowledged the fact that he has some serious issues and that they were the major factor in him having the A. He did all of that on his own, without me pushing him. For him to own up to that and to do that really shows me that he is honest about trying to make things work for us.
Sheba Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 I have not been cheated on, but the trust I had in both my first and now my second husband has been seriously compromised if not destroyed. I have given some thought to what would help me get beyond these issues in my marriage, and also thought about the troubles faced by my fellow LS posters. I think Lynna hit the nail on the head. Her husband demonstrated that he had INSIGHT. I think insight is what these people need in order for the betrayed to feel as if there is hope of recovery. If the betrayer can see for and feel within him/herself that they have done wrong, as opposed to being told, there is a chance they will make a choice to behave differently. I also believe in transparency. All of the lies that hide betrayals must be admitted and the betrayed must be given "offers of proof" that there is no more lying going on. Privacy should be abandoned. Passwords to voicemail and email accounts should be given. Religious reporting of whereabouts (until the betrayed spouse gets sick of it) should be practiced. Tolerance of pain is another given. The betrayer might have to repeat apologies, remembering that the pain is resonating. The betrayer might have to repeat assurances, keeping in mind that the lies are echoing. The betrayer has to build him/herself back up to a level playing field out of a hole, and to be ready to understand that he or she dug that hole. The betrayed has work to do too, I am sure. They have to control their own imaginations and give credit for effort. They can't expect the betrayer to beat him/herself constantly, or the work to be done will seem hopeless. The betrayed has to ask themselves if they contributed in anyway to a marital climate that fostered a betrayal, and if they did, to fix their own mistakes. And, both parties have to be very, very patient.
quiet1one1 Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 Not stepping outside to talk on her cell phone would be a start ! Little things like this set things way back quickly. I'm just starting out on this path but... I agree it's 100% up to the WS to ***SHOW*** you they are sorry and are committed to you. I don't have specific examples of how but I 'm very sure I'll know them when/if I see them. We each know our WSs very well and I think it will be obvious, one way or the other, whether they're being true or not. I also think they must understand that the BS will over-react to even the slightest, sillyest, most mundane thing and allow you those feelings.
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