JustBreathe Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Married 25 years. Husband confessed to multiple times cheating five years ago. Seperated twice, first of his own volition (broke my heart!); and second about two years ago when I asked him to leave. Since the second time, he seems to have truly and honesty turned over a new leaf. He is doing all the things I wished he would have done all those years. But I am still heartbroken. Don't like having sex much with him anymore (that's way different than it was). Hardly speak to him on the phone anymore when before we were in constant touch. Feel sad alot of the time. Can't believe he did this stuff behind my back and can't get over the depression over it. I feel like our intimacy is dead and I can't be close to him anymore. He looks sad. Has gained alot of weight. But claims he wants his marriage and will do whatever it takes. Why can't I forgive? I feel like I'm going through the motions. I don't want to break up my family. My kids love their dad. What to do? What would YOU do?
VIP Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Take your time, don't force yourself, try to understand how much you love him and what he means for you. I know one woman, whose husband cheated on her and she couldn't forgive him. Then one day he died, when she was about ready to forgive him. She might be feeling guilty now for the rest of her life.
Bobster999 Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 If you two really want to save your marriage you need to be in some heavy-duty marriage counciling.
Author JustBreathe Posted June 19, 2007 Author Posted June 19, 2007 Thanks for responding. We did try counseling at first, just after "disclosure", but he wasn't ready then and just sat there mute the whole time. Now, we've settled into a sort of apathy. I am not compelled to seek marriage counseling. I just feel sort of dead inside except for an ache in my heart that just won't go away. I am in individual counseling and have been for some time. My counselor has helped me to concentrate on things that bring me a feeling of accomplishment and raise my self-esteem which has suffered greatly from all this. He was really cruel to me right after the whole thing blew up. I never knew he could be so cruel. Now he's super nice and sweet, I do not want for anything anymore, he says all the right things, but I cannot forget how he treated me. Things he said that I can't forget: "I guess I never loved you as much as you loved me." "Your staying with me after what I've done speaks more for YOUR dysfunction than mine. What's wrong with YOU?" "Who loves you? Who in this WHOLE world loves you anyway?" "No one will ever want you. You have three kids." "I don't care about your feelings! I don't have to talk about anything! I don't care what you have to say! I just don't care!" "You are not my mother! I don't have to answer to you!" "Sex with you was never that great. You seem to think it was all great and everything but it wasn't." "You never gave me enough sex." "You were inhibited sexually." We had sex 3 times a week and have done it ALL - everything every which way, he certainly seemed to be enjoying himself immensely, yet I didn't want it enough, I was inhibited and it wasn't that great. I used to love it with him. Now I can hardly look at him sometimes. Of course, all of that doesn't count I guess since he's changed and all. But I can't forget it. These things hurt to this day. I have spoken to him, he has apologized, said he was just angry about how things had turned out between us. But it does not heal my heart. I see us two ways. Just existing as best we can, being together for the rest of our lives, not really happy but not entirely unhappy. Or divorced and being sad about that decision for the rest of our lives. Affairs suck so much. They damage things so completely. Attack love, loyalty, communication, trust -- all that a relationship needs to survive. Sorry I wrote a book.
VIP Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 There are only two ways out for you. Either you take your time, even separate if you have to, so that you could sort things out and see if he's important enough for you to be able to forgive and start everything all over again. Or divorce, if you don't want to do it. But don't live in misery for the rest of your life, it's just not worth it. Not for you and not for him.
VIP Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Things he said that I can't forget: "I guess I never loved you as much as you loved me." "Your staying with me after what I've done speaks more for YOUR dysfunction than mine. What's wrong with YOU?" "Who loves you? Who in this WHOLE world loves you anyway?" "No one will ever want you. You have three kids." "I don't care about your feelings! I don't have to talk about anything! I don't care what you have to say! I just don't care!" "You are not my mother! I don't have to answer to you!" "Sex with you was never that great. You seem to think it was all great and everything but it wasn't." "You never gave me enough sex." "You were inhibited sexually." Did you actually write down all those things, so that you could throw them in his face again later? Or to remind yourself of how terrible he was? We all say things we don't mean when we are angry. And those sound like responses to things, that you told him. Why don't you tell all these things to him and ask him to explain every one of them. Does he still think this way? Why did he say that before?
Pilgrim Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 What I'd do.... I'd try to make it work, but realise it will be a marathon not a sprint. I think it's doable (I'm a BS too). Forgive me if I'm misreading your posts, but it looks like you are seeing changes in behaviour, but that you havent really got to the stage of talking about the deeper stuff that has hurt you so much. (I had some similar revelations about the physical relationship - and said candidly during counselling not in anger - I've still not begun to deal with that yet) My experience - you will need to get to the stage that you can tell him how it felt to have the things said that were said, and that he listens and understands how he made you feel, without getting defensice. But that kind of thing doesnt happen overnight, especially if you have (like me and my wife) got learned patterns of not talking about certain things. But if you do that, then you will have created an opportunity to forgive him. It can be to forgive without that stage, I think. But ultimately if you're unable to forgive it wont do YOU any good to harbour the feelings, so my view is that we all will have to get there sooner or later. Along the way you need to ensure you have some good times, things that you enjoy (for us it is going out for a meal or taking a break and going away) You need to work out what are the things that make you feel loved and feel like his efforts are genuine ensure he knows them too. I found "The marriage book" by Nicky and Sila Lee pretty helpful. It's christian based but in a not in-your-face kind of way. The bit on love languages in particular is good (theres a book out there on just that, but the marriage book is my suggestion) By the way, respect to the other posts, but in my view in most circumstances separation is likely to make it less, not more, likely that you'll work things through. But it's your judgment to make. Hope it goes OK Pilgrim
Author JustBreathe Posted June 20, 2007 Author Posted June 20, 2007 VIP -- no, I didn't write the things down and throw them in his face. It is just that they cut deep and I can still hear him saying them in my head. For a time, I may have thrown these things in his face because I remember alot of the things he said that were hurtful and told him so. I didn't mean to throw them in his face, I just felt they needed discussing since they hurt so much. All he said is that he doesn't remember saying those things. That he was angry at the time and that he is sorry. Problem is, I DO remember them, along with the crappy way he treated me for years and years, like his personal doormat, and I RESENT the things he said and the way he treated me. I HATE the fact that I let him walk on me. He only came around after I had decided I was ready to move on and asked him to leave. It was that I had quit crying and begging that made him want his marriage. Thank you for your help and responses. I just needed to let it out some. I don't know what to do. I don't think I can save this thing.
Mr. Lucky Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 It was that I had quit crying and begging that made him want his marriage. But here's what I don't understand - you took him back . Knowing that you hadn't gotten over all the rotten things he's said and done and that you couldn't forgive him - you took him back. I guess it's easier from the outside, but that decision set off a predictable chain of events that got you here today. Both of you unhappy, him guilty and you wronged. It would take a hurculean effort to fix things now, so I guess the first question would be - are you up to it? Mr. Lucky
Author JustBreathe Posted June 20, 2007 Author Posted June 20, 2007 You guys are great and are really making me think. It's like everything is so blurry I fail to see things as they truly are, fall into this hopeless lost place. My inability to let go of my anger is what is stalling everything. Mr. Lucky, I don't know if I'm up to it. I have been thinking long and hard about that. After a time, a spouse becomes like an arm or a leg, something you can do without if you had to have it cut off, but would forever cripple you if you did lose it. I took him back because he was literally sobbing and begging me for another chance. It was too hard to see him that way and at that time, I thought that we might have another chance. That maybe I could put it all away. He is the father of my 3 kids. We have many years together, have built a life together. Why he chose to betray me over and over is something I will never understand. His reasons seem stupid, self serving and nonsensical to me. I just can't resolve it in my mind. He has admitted that he took me for granted, says he is so sorry, and none of it was worth it. But where is the satisfaction in that for me? It is like trying to put out a fire by spitting on it. It rages on. I am taking my time, VIP. But it is a very hard way to live. I appreciate your bringing it to my attention that those were indeed responses to things I said. I was outraged back then and saying hurtful things myself. Maybe I keep those things close to me to justify my anger today when perhaps I did provoke him. We did separate. He has tried since then. The problem isn't him anymore. It's ME. I have tried to get him to talk to me. Maybe that's why he clams up! I have tried too hard and too strongly and with anger and he feels like a man on trial. Well so be it. I feel like a person wronged to the core. Pilgrim, I don't even try anymore and so we don't talk at all, as he is uncommunicative anyway. So he goes his way, I go mine. Yet we both stay. We are ambivalent, that sort of marriage where two people exist but don't relate to each other much. I've read some books, more on codependency than marriage. Maybe I need to revisit self-help books, like the one you mentioned. Why is though that the person wronged has to be the one to "understand" while they run away from what they did. When does it become our turn? It isn't fair. It is like the scale is tipped in their favor. They got to have all the fun and games, and we have to understand and forgive. He spent the best years of our lives running around on me behind my back, and now, when he is in his fifties and the women aren't that easy to attract, I am supposed to forgive it and see him through his old age. Great. Again, I thank you for letting me vent and giving me things to think about. I will think very hard about MY contributions to the state of our marriage, my extreme bitterness, and take my time to make that decision.
milvushina Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 We did try counseling at first, just after "disclosure", but he wasn't ready then and just sat there mute the whole time. Now, we've settled into a sort of apathy. I am not compelled to seek marriage counseling. I just feel sort of dead inside except for an ache in my heart that just won't go away. I think it is common to feel this way. My mom felt this way before they got divorced and she did not go to counseling because she had no desire to work on things that way. I felt the same way too before I got divorced, except I also felt like I no longer loved him (and I think mom no longer loved dad). Anyway, I think the idea is, you go to counseling even though at first you have no motivation and you just go through the motions. And you give yourself about 2 months to do that and see if you start to get more receptive. You might be surprised and find that once you get started, you begin to care and that desire to work starts to replace the apathy. At least, that is what I was told and so I committed to the two months even though I didn't want to, although it didn't work out for me, I think that for a lot of people it does help. Especially if you have a lot invested - I was married under two years.
Mr. Lucky Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 His reasons seem stupid, self serving and nonsensical to me. I just can't resolve it in my mind. He has admitted that he took me for granted, says he is so sorry, and none of it was worth it. But where is the satisfaction in that for me? It is like trying to put out a fire by spitting on it. It rages on. You're at a point that every Betrayed Spouse reaches - the "why" question. After some time, you realize that there isn't a good answer. Let me put it this way - you say his reasons were "stupid, self serving and nonsensical". Could he come up with reasons for cheating that were "smart", "selfless" and "logical"? Don't waste your time trying to understand something that can't be defined by logic or sense. Just my $.02... Mr. Lucky
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