silktricks Posted June 29, 2007 Posted June 29, 2007 I think IWWH has said a mouthful here. (But I wouldn't be surprised if that's not the root of the serial infidelity either). That doesn't in any way diminish the unhappiness that a self-loathing person can and does cause to everyone around them. OOD, when he co-opted your counselor, was anything said to you? By either of them? At some point you are going to simply need to decide if you can ever get past what happened. Whether you can possibly even attempt to trust him again, or even want to attempt to trust him again. You are hurting so much right now, over so many things, that any little thing (and especially any BIG thing) will take you right down into hell. Before you decide if you want to try to get past his betrayal, though, you may want to think hard about whether or not you want to continue to live with someone who treats you badly. And it does sound like he treats you badly much of the time. The very fact that he shows no apparent understanding of your continued pain and fear exposes a coldness (or alternately a heatedness that is severely damped) that may be pretty hard to get by. (((HUGS))) to you. I think you need a lot of them!!!
Author outofdarkness Posted June 29, 2007 Author Posted June 29, 2007 Is the anger/temper/sarcasm, etc. a new thing or has he always been this way? I am asking because my SO started developing anger issues right before we split up....which is out of character. Supposedly, from what I have read, those who cheat can become angry with everyone involved. Themselves, their spouse and whomever they had the affair with. He has always had a bad temper, but the sarcasm, degradation, etc..did not start until after the A's started...
Author outofdarkness Posted June 29, 2007 Author Posted June 29, 2007 I know that it sounds like I'm trying to minimize the occasional pushing/shoving, but they are teens...adult size...He won't and can't go any further then that.... This behavior comes from self loathing, unfortunately it also begets self loathing. Yep..you hit the nail on the head. When we were going to MC, that kept coming up over and over and over..How he felt so bad about himself...It was like a broken record...We were told by more then one professional, that the way he was treated by a person of authority; most often a parent, but not ALWAYS....I can't even begin to get into all of THAT stuff..They will never change, just as HE will never change...They blame ME...They being his family...They say it's b/c of my co dependency..My H even asked me not long ago if I'd be willing to attend a coda meeting...Like A/A but for co dependents.I said emphatically NO...
IfWishesWereHorses Posted June 29, 2007 Posted June 29, 2007 They say it's b/c of my co dependency.. They blame his behavior on your co dependency or your behavior?? I'm confused.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted June 29, 2007 Posted June 29, 2007 Tell you what OOD, call your in-laws and tell them that you have the most wonderful news to share. Thank the profusely for helping you to see the error of your ways. Tell them that YOUR codepdancy has been with out a doubt the root of the problem. Tell them that they will be most delighted to know that you have resolved the issue. Tell them that you have the best divorce lawyer in the state and that you will no longer be ENABLING their son. Tell them that you intend to go through a messy court battle as a way of facing your fears head on. Tell them that you cousin at the daily Register is interested in doing a human interest story on their upstanding and historically important family starting from the most famous ancestors. The angle of the article which is to run for 8 weeks will be abuse and hiddens secrets of the all important and how it affects families through out time. "The gift that keeps on giving" will be the title. They will be so very pleased to hear that the article is expected to be picked up by several national publications and that it will culminate in the divorce trial and your overcoming of codependance! They will surely take you into their arms and burst into tears of joy and express their sincere thanks for you solving this little family problem and breaking the cycle.:sick::sick:
child_of_isis Posted June 29, 2007 Posted June 29, 2007 So, no one needs to change but you, eh? How convenient for everyone...but you. Man, it sounds like you are taking the beatdown. So, I wonder what "change" means to them? Take his **** like the good wifey should? Let him do his "thang" while you play role of mommy/wife etc. and hold the entire family and "appearances" together...? Gessh...I'm pissing myself off...;-).They will never change, just as HE will never change...They blame ME...They being his family...They say it's b/c of my co dependency..My H even asked me not long ago if I'd be willing to attend a coda meeting...Like A/A but for co dependents.I said emphatically NO...
RecordProducer Posted June 30, 2007 Posted June 30, 2007 What's the worst-case scenario if you would leave him in financial terms? Would you be able to make it on your own and support yourself and the kids financially? Do you have any assets created during the marriage (it doesn't matter WHO earned them, you or him)? Did you sign a prenup?
Author outofdarkness Posted June 30, 2007 Author Posted June 30, 2007 Tell you what OOD, call your in-laws and tell them that you have the most wonderful news to share. Thank the profusely for helping you to see the error of your ways. Tell them that YOUR codepdancy has been with out a doubt the root of the problem. Tell them that they will be most delighted to know that you have resolved the issue. Tell them that you have the best divorce lawyer in the state and that you will no longer be ENABLING their son. Tell them that you intend to go through a messy court battle as a way of facing your fears head on. Tell them that you cousin at the daily Register is interested in doing a human interest story on their upstanding and historically important family starting from the most famous ancestors. The angle of the article which is to run for 8 weeks will be abuse and hiddens secrets of the all important and how it affects families through out time. "The gift that keeps on giving" will be the title. They will be so very pleased to hear that the article is expected to be picked up by several national publications and that it will culminate in the divorce trial and your overcoming of codependance! They will surely take you into their arms and burst into tears of joy and express their sincere thanks for you solving this little family problem and breaking the cycle.:sick::sick: LOL...got a real kick out of this one IWWH!!! Believe me, I have pondered this thought more then a few times..Even come close a few times, but in the end, I just couldn't do this, as it would be going against everything that I am, and I would consider it lowering myself to their level.. I have resisted the urge to tell them that the reason they were able to take their 6 month trip around the world 2 years ago, was b/c I withdrew the D papers, AND I have resisted the urge to blab my mouth...It's just not in me... Thanks for the post..It brightened my day in a dark sort of way!!
Author outofdarkness Posted June 30, 2007 Author Posted June 30, 2007 They say it's b/c of my co dependency.. They blame his behavior on your co dependency or your behavior?? I'm confused. I gave my in laws the book entitled "Out of the Shadows" on s-- addiction...My FIL is a human calculator and read every word and took it as the gospel....There is a section on co dependency in the book...He grabbed hold of it and ran...Just what he needed to take some of the heat off of himself and his son and family...
Author outofdarkness Posted June 30, 2007 Author Posted June 30, 2007 What's the worst-case scenario if you would leave him in financial terms? Would you be able to make it on your own and support yourself and the kids financially? Do you have any assets created during the marriage (it doesn't matter WHO earned them, you or him)? Did you sign a prenup? The answer to your question is that yes, I would be able to make it on my own, but we would be dependent on him and his income. As far as assets, he squandered away most of it...He has an IRA and 401K...that's it..We pretty much had to start from scratch three years ago..AND..after having 1/2 mil in the bank...it's not so easy to rebuild...I've had health problems, our son has had health problems, and I have to take care of my Mom along w/ my Sisters...So, I COULD make it..I mean, everyone always has a choice...BUT some choices are really bad..It's like choosing between the lesser of two evils..
Author outofdarkness Posted June 30, 2007 Author Posted June 30, 2007 The answer to your question is that yes, I would be able to make it on my own, but we would be dependent on him and his income. As far as assets, he squandered away most of it...He has an IRA and 401K...that's it..We pretty much had to start from scratch three years ago..AND..after having 1/2 mil in the bank...it's not so easy to rebuild...I've had health problems, our son has had health problems, and I have to take care of my Mom along w/ my Sisters...So, I COULD make it..I mean, everyone always has a choice...BUT some choices are really bad..It's like choosing between the lesser of two evils.. I don't even know if pre nups existed 21 years ago..We were high school sweethearts...I've never been with anyone else..It never entered my mind to get anything even close to a pre nup...Although I will make sure that our daughter has one when she ties the knot...If she decides she wants to after seeing our M...
Melissa277 Posted June 30, 2007 Posted June 30, 2007 Melissa, a couple words, if I may. The two of you have been married for a long long time. This wasn't a life style of many years, rather it was a single episode, right? If you do want to reconcile and heal your marriage, you need to make it active on your part. You cannot continue to phrase things in the manner you phrase them in your mind, as you then continue to see things that are in the past as in the present. What you know is that he lied and he cheated. If you insist on keeping that up front and center as your definition of him, you might as well just call it a day and get on with your life. And as for trusting. Learning to trust again also takes work on your part, not just his. He needs to be absolutely honest about everything to you. But you also need to start trusting in small things, then slowly you can relearn the ability to trust in large things. It's babysteps all the way, but in order to stay together you've got to make a start at it. I thought I had made some progress, but apparently not. Believe me silk, I know this is all my fault. I know. But trusting and believing in the person who betrayed me so effortlessly, so completely without conscience and for so long has been and still is really hard for me ... I'm sorry.
silktricks Posted June 30, 2007 Posted June 30, 2007 I know this is all my fault. I know. But trusting and believing in the person who betrayed me so effortlessly, so completely without conscience and for so long has been and still is really hard for me Uh, well, no, it's not your fault at all. It's your husband's fault, and the other woman's fault . It's just that if you want to heal, you've got to quit pulling off the scab, and give it a chance!! Think in babysteps. If you have to set little testy kinda traps, then do that. But if you want to stay together, you're going to need to get to the point where you can trust. Are you a religious person? If so, then pray to your God to help you relearn trust. Keep in mind the fact that no one is perfect. Everyone screws up (even us BS!!). Re-read the part in the Bible about the wayward son, who came back after wasting his inheritance and running around with loose women. It may help you see things from a little different perspective. The biggest obstacle to trust for me, was the fear of being a fool again. Then I realized that I really wasn't a fool to trust, I was a fool not to trust. If I didn't learn to trust him again, I was going to be in a lot more pain for a lot longer. Think of what it was like to fall in love. You didn't go through a lot of "Oh my god, he could lie to me, I could be hurt, I could be tricked, etc. etc. etc..." Yet the possibility is ALWAYS there to be hurt. Fall in love with your husband again. Don't just "love" him, fall "in love" with him. And tell him you want to do that, but he has to help you fall in love with him all over again. Some day your husband will leave you, or you will leave him. One of you will die and leave the other. If he dies first, the pain you are in now you will look back on and wish that you could experience again, just so that you could again see him and talk to him. We've been hurt. Terribly hurt. But it really isn't the worst pain there is. "Where there's life there's hope" is a good thought to live with.
RecordProducer Posted July 1, 2007 Posted July 1, 2007 The answer to your question is that yes, I would be able to make it on my own, but we would be dependent on him and his income. As far as assets, he squandered away most of it...He has an IRA and 401K...that's it..We pretty much had to start from scratch three years ago..AND..after having 1/2 mil in the bank...it's not so easy to rebuild...I've had health problems, our son has had health problems, and I have to take care of my Mom along w/ my Sisters...So, I COULD make it..I mean, everyone always has a choice...BUT some choices are really bad..It's like choosing between the lesser of two evils..OOD, when you say "It never entered my mind to get anything even close to a pre nup...Although I will make sure that our daughter has one when she ties the knot...If she decides she wants to after seeing our M..." it's clear that you consider your marriage unsuccessful. So why are you staying? Also, a prenup would do HIM a favor, not you, since you're not working, as much as I understand (please excuse me and correct me if I am wrong). I don't want to sound like I am persuading you to get a divorce at any cost, but it's stressful for me to even read your posts, so I can imagine how stressful it must be to actually BE in your shoes. If you have 1/2 million in the bank, it's half yours. If you own the residence at least partially, it's half yours. If your state favors, equitable, rather than equal division of marital assets, then you would get more than half of your total assets, if you would keep the children. So let's say you have paid off $100k of the house, $500,000, and your husband has a retirement plan. You could get more than $300k in a divorce settlement, plus he would have to pay child support and alimony for a long time, especially if you don't work or your salary is low. You've been married for over two decades, you have children so HE is the one who should be afraid of a divorce, not you, speaking financially. If I were you, I'd spend a couple hundred bucks on consulting a good attorney. Even if he doesn't want to divorce you, you have grounds to sue him as his infidelity makes the divorce HIS fault. If you don't have enough money to pay the attorney in case of divorce, you have a right to file a request to the court that HE pays for your legal expenses. You will get it if you prove that you don't have enough money. Staying in a marriage where you agonize every time he leaves the house is bringing constant stress. That's not good for your health. Not only that you're at risk for STD's, but you can also develop all kinds of nasty chronic diseases due to the stress. Do you want to end up with a stroke or a heart attack at age 50 or 60? Your children need a mother. Think of them if you're not thinking of yourself. You've never had anyone else so you imagine this world as if it has only one man in it: your husband. But it's not like that. You can love and be loved again. He doesn't deserve you. Nothing is worse than a bad marriage. When you've never divorced before, you think of it as the worst thing that can happen to you. That's how I thought when my husband started leaving me. Eventually I got over him, re-married, and it turned out that the divorce was the best thing that happened to me. Statistics say that all people who have divorced are happy about their decisions. They all lived in crappy marriages and they ended the misery at some point.
child_of_isis Posted July 1, 2007 Posted July 1, 2007 I think she said they had a 1/2 mil. And he squandered it. My bet is that it is hid somewhere. That would be my goal in life before anything else. Find the money!!!!!!!! Be discreet of course. That is probably why he is so damn cocky. He not only has control of the money, but control of her by controlling the money.
RecordProducer Posted July 1, 2007 Posted July 1, 2007 I think she said they had a 1/2 mil. And he squandered it. My bet is that it is hid somewhere. .You can find any hidden money on the tax return full document. If they have filed joint taxes, she has a right to request the receipt from the IRS (it costs around $40) or even from their accountant (if they have one), but in that case, it won't be descrete. If they have nothing then that's why he is being cocky. Oh, I forgot to say that in most states he would have to pay 40% of his income for alimony. In her case it would be for a long period of time, plus child support. But this should be checked with an attorney from her state. If his income is high, after 20 years of marriage and children born in the marriage, she can be well off and not need work for a long time after the divorce.
Impudent Oyster Posted July 1, 2007 Posted July 1, 2007 If you want to confront an OP (maybe not your OW), there is a new website where OP go to brag about their affairs...I'm not kidding, these people are sick. Its at townreddotnet
bish Posted July 1, 2007 Posted July 1, 2007 If you want to confront an OP (maybe not your OW), there is a new website where OP go to brag about their affairs...I'm not kidding, these people are sick. Its at townreddotnet Well let these lousy people have that site. What comes around goes around, and they will get what is coming to them sooner or later.
Chubbi Posted July 2, 2007 Posted July 2, 2007 Respect has to be earned OOD. A bully won't learn if no one stands up to him.
Author outofdarkness Posted July 2, 2007 Author Posted July 2, 2007 Thanks for the replies. My comp. has a nasty trojan...My H sent me an e mail w/ some sort of virus on it...Guess he doesn't want me on the comp?? Anyway...Just wanted you all to know..I'm trying to get rid of it, but right now, it takes me forever just to log on..As far as the money...WE HAD it..It's gone and now all we have is heavy debt..Yes, he does make good money, but we have heavy debt too. I HAD a business that was really starting to take off, but I had to quit due to illnesses..both our son and myself. Yes, you are right, std's and stress related illnesses are of great concern to me...I am seeing it and have seen it for a very long time. As far as whether or not he has hidden assets...very possible..IDK...Right now, all I really care about is getting our son well and settled back into school. By the beg. on next year, both kids will be driving..This takes a load off of me and enables me to make some changes with some piece of mind. Thanks for the info re: divorce. I am well aware of all of this, as I did file for D 2 years ago..I petitioned the court to stop the D due to giving in to all of his whining and promises...So, it's sort of like..you made your bed, your decisions, etc., now you must lay in it!! I feel for the all of the old tricks.... I am NOT worried about STD's at the moment, as I am almost certain that he is cheating, and that means that I will NOT endanger my own health any further by doing the unthinkable. He carries around three z packs at a time when he travels, apparently under the mistaken impression that this will protect him from STD's, and other illnesses that may tip me off to the cheating...None of this works anymore, as I am much more savvy and knowledgeable then I was pre D day...I try to stay quiet and go w/ the flow...sort of flying under the radar, so as not to tip him off that I am on to him...Also, it drives him crazy not to see me upset and making myself physically and emotionally sick over all of this...His temper is getting very bad, as he has once again begun to throw things and yell unprovoked..This is VERY concerning, and I am taking the proper steps to ensure our safety..I will NOT be easy if it becomes necessary to tell him to leave; I've already "suggested" it, but to enforce it has and will again, become very tenuous... He is leaving tom. for a "business" trip only to return late on Tues..I think it NO coincidence that he is leaving for a business trip to a destination that I feel very uncomfortable w/ the day before a holiday..4th of July that is...He has trips planned for the next three weeks or so continuously..No coincidence either given that the summer has alway been a time when the kids are away at camp...Guess he thinks I don't see these things anymore..NOT!!! My guess is that this is a time that he has looked forward to for many years and/or OW(s) know this is a time when the kids are away, and reconnect w/ him traditionally at this time. This is also the time of year, almost to the day, when D day arrived three years ago... As far as income tax returns, yes they are filed jointly...I JUST started to look them over three years ago, after D day...I would have to do some digging to see what's one them before that...He uses a certain tax comp. program now, whereas before, he had an accountant do them...A coincidence? what do you all think??? Thanks for the replies..Keep them coming, as they are keeping me on my toes..
Melissa277 Posted July 2, 2007 Posted July 2, 2007 OOD, how in the heck do you keep yourself from killing this poor excuse for a human being? I agree with Record Producer ... I am also stressed when I read what he has put you and your kids through. Can't you just kick his sorry *ss out (have the cops there if you need them and get an order of protection) and then take him for everything he's got? He seems to think he's invincible, but a good divorce lawyer will be able uncover all of his "secrets" ... his hidden assets, etc. to the point where you would come out smelling like a rose, both financially and emotionally. I know you think it will be really hard, but my gosh, it can't be any harder than living the way you live now.
Author outofdarkness Posted July 2, 2007 Author Posted July 2, 2007 OOD, how in the heck do you keep yourself from killing this poor excuse for a human being? I agree with Record Producer ... I am also stressed when I read what he has put you and your kids through. Can't you just kick his sorry *ss out (have the cops there if you need them and get an order of protection) and then take him for everything he's got? He seems to think he's invincible, but a good divorce lawyer will be able uncover all of his "secrets" ... his hidden assets, etc. to the point where you would come out smelling like a rose, both financially and emotionally. I know you think it will be really hard, but my gosh, it can't be any harder than living the way you live now. yep...right now, I tend to agree w/ you..Thanks for the reply....and for taking the time to read the thread! ood
Lynna Posted July 2, 2007 Posted July 2, 2007 Say, here's an idea OOD - since he is going out of town for awhile, you can go talk to a lawyer, get the D proceedings started. Then you can rent a storage unit, put it in his name, pack up all his things (things that you don't want) and put them in the storage unit. Next, have an alarm system installed in the house (you may want to call now and schedule that as they might not be able to come right away), and change the locks on the door (be sure to get good ones). And finally take out a restraining order on him. Boy would he be pissed when he gets back! But it serves him right. He is a complete waste of a human being from all your posts. You do not deserve to be treated like this AT ALL!!!
Author outofdarkness Posted July 3, 2007 Author Posted July 3, 2007 Say, here's an idea OOD - since he is going out of town for awhile, you can go talk to a lawyer, get the D proceedings started. Then you can rent a storage unit, put it in his name, pack up all his things (things that you don't want) and put them in the storage unit. Next, have an alarm system installed in the house (you may want to call now and schedule that as they might not be able to come right away), and change the locks on the door (be sure to get good ones). And finally take out a restraining order on him. Boy would he be pissed when he gets back! But it serves him right. He is a complete waste of a human being from all your posts. You do not deserve to be treated like this AT ALL!!! Thanks for the post! I am trying to stay quiet right now, while being careful to observe and take notes. I don't want to do anything to really make him angry right now, as I am not sure of his state of mind. Your plan is a good one, and one which I will carefully consider should things reach and unsafe level..I don't feel that way YET, but am watching and considering things carefully. I do have an attorney, as I did file for D previously. I am also very familiar with the process that one must go thru to get an order of protection...Should things escalate to this point, rest assured, I will waste no time in taking the appropriate action... Thanks again for the post and for taking the time to reply..
Lynna Posted July 3, 2007 Posted July 3, 2007 Gathering all your ammunition is a good idea too. That way he won't be able to put up much of a fight when you do decide to toss him to the curb! Make sure you keep all the evidence you have gathered in a safe place where he would never look. You don't want him to find it and destroy it! Hang in there and enjoy your vacation with him gone! Do something you enjoy to let off some of the stress! Have fun!
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