serial muse Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 So, I've got a question. Let's say your cheating ex contacts you to say, basically, "sorry". Years later. Let's take for granted that he's not hoping to reconcile or anything, and for God's sake neither are you. He also says he's not looking for absolution - but it'd be incredibly gracious if I gave it to him. What I want to know, from any cheaters out there who now feel remorse, is - why? This is an ex, out of your life. Nobody wants to get back together. What, really, is the point - just to clear his mind somehow? What goes through a person's mind, in this situation, that they'd go out of their way to track you down, find your email and contact you to say, "sorry" and "you don't have to reply and let me off the hook but it'd sure be great if you did". I mean - no, I won't reply. But it does feel a bit...rude, now. Which is annoying. For absolution he should just go to confession. I guess what I want to think about is whether my saying, "whatever, I'm over it, have a nice life" would even mean anything anyway. Is there any point to this? I don't know why I even have any impulse to be nice about this, and I probably won't do it. But what can I say, I don't like to hurt people. (Not that I enjoy the experience so much myself, either.) On the other hand, I kind of enjoy the thought that he's lying awake at night, hating himself because he's such an ********* and desperately needing me to forgive him so he can get on with his life, but that's probably too much to ask.
Pyro Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 If the cheater is doing that without hopes of reconciling, then I say that is a pretty bold move. Maybe guilt has caught up with him or some other reason along those lines, but that is pretty mature of him IMO. Since it has been so long and because you were hurt by his actions, you are not entitled to respond back, but it is a nice gesture IMO.
Trialbyfire Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 While I can't give you the perspective from a cheater's perspective, I would either just ignore the email or basically tell him to get over it. As for yourself, would you feel better if you gave him forgiveness? If so, do it, other than that, he's nothing in your life to forgive, only something to forget.
Author serial muse Posted June 19, 2007 Author Posted June 19, 2007 If the cheater is doing that without hopes of reconciling, then I say that is a pretty bold move. Maybe guilt has caught up with him or some other reason along those lines, but that is pretty mature of him IMO. Since it has been so long and because you were hurt by his actions, you are not entitled to respond back, but it is a nice gesture IMO. I guess that's the thing, Rid. I'm over him, but still not over the hurt and the fallout. The breach of trust still colors my life and my relationships. I don't need him to know that, but I know it, and that makes it hard to be willing to be generous. On the other hand, not replying also suggests I'm not over it, which I don't want to suggest. Ugh, this is why I'd rather he'd just stayed gone. I don't want the ball to be in my court, and I guess I'm finding that it's kind of pissing me off that he put me in this position, where I have to battle my own guilt. That's why I tossed that ball over the highest wall I could find a long time ago - all I want from him is to be left alone now.
reservoirdog1 Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 I'm not a cheater, but oddly enough, I've been wondering this too. In my case, cheating XW and I split almost 4 years ago. After over two years of hating her, I let go of my anger a little over a year ago and can now interact with her. I don't particularly want to be her friend, but I don't have a problem dealing with her (I have to do so because of the kids). Anyway, she's supposedly getting married this summer. Knowing what I know of her (she became a churchgoer after we split), it wouldn't surprise me if she asked if I'd forgiven her, so that she can get married with a clean slate or something. I have no idea if she'll ask that or not, but it's crossed my mind. And, I'm not sure what I'd say. I'm not angry about it anymore and I'm in a relationship now that's better than my marriage ever was. But have I forgiven her? I don't know. What I feel isn't forgiveness, it's indifference. I basically don't care about her anymore, one way or the other. Which may sound callous, but it's true. So, if this were to come up, I'm not sure if I'd answer "yes" just to make her happy, or tell her "no", or just refuse to answer. Either way, I know it wouldn't be my job to help her wipe her moral slate clean. Sorry this doesn't help, but thanks for starting the thread...
Trimmer Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 I agree that you are certainly entitiled to ignore it completely. However, if you were inclined to consider some way to reply, you could always tell him that you accept his apology (or you could say "acknowledge" to make it a little colder,) although it's not in your power to absolve him of anything. That puts you in a position of humanely acknowledging what may actually be a humane gesture (if he really is offering it without expectation of any return), but doesn't require you to bend to the point where you say that it's all OK now and all is forgiven.
Pyro Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 I guess that's the thing, Rid. I'm over him, but still not over the hurt and the fallout. The breach of trust still colors my life and my relationships. I don't need him to know that, but I know it, and that makes it hard to be willing to be generous. On the other hand, not replying also suggests I'm not over it, which I don't want to suggest. Ugh, this is why I'd rather he'd just stayed gone. I don't want the ball to be in my court, and I guess I'm finding that it's kind of pissing me off that he put me in this position, where I have to battle my own guilt. That's why I tossed that ball over the highest wall I could find a long time ago - all I want from him is to be left alone now. If you still have any ounce of hurt, then don't respond. That doesn't necessarily imply to him that you are not over him. For all he knows, you could have gotten a new email or your email is malfunctioning. There have been times where I haven't received a message. How did he contact you? Was it phone or email?
Author serial muse Posted June 19, 2007 Author Posted June 19, 2007 So, if this were to come up, I'm not sure if I'd answer "yes" just to make her happy, or tell her "no", or just refuse to answer. Either way, I know it wouldn't be my job to help her wipe her moral slate clean. Sorry this doesn't help, but thanks for starting the thread... It does help, in a way, because it's nice to know that it's sort of normal to feel mixed feelings about this. I guess there's a strong current of "he hasn't learned from it or properly paid for it" underlying my feelings, which is petty, perhaps, but pretty strong. I don't think he should get off so lightly. But generally, it's none of my business, except that I don't want to participate. The part of me that isn't feeling the personal hurt and wants everyone to just get along and move on with their lives is urging me to take the moral high ground. But I just don't think that part is strong enough to win this struggle. I think I'll just say nothing.
Author serial muse Posted June 19, 2007 Author Posted June 19, 2007 If you still have any ounce of hurt, then don't respond. That doesn't necessarily imply to him that you are not over him. For all he knows, you could have gotten a new email or your email is malfunctioning. There have been times where I haven't received a message. How did he contact you? Was it phone or email? It was email - he actually emailed me at work, which means he went looking for me online, because I just got my current job a year ago. I guess it's true that it doesn't really matter what he'll think if I don't reply...water under the bridge at this point I guess. Ironically, he emailed me twice. The first one I got (I started a thread about it here a few weeks back) was actually the second one he sent. The first one was sent about 2 months ago, and went straight into my junk mail folder. Haha. My spam filter has a mind of its own, I tell you. So I just found that one today, and it sent me into a whole new loopdeloop. When does this crap ever end?!? if you were inclined to consider some way to reply, you could always tell him that you accept his apology (or you could say "acknowledge" to make it a little colder,) although it's not in your power to absolve him of anything. Hm, I'll think about this; it's a reasonable way to handle it. I especially like the bit about how it's not in my power to absolve him. That sounds faintly superior and regal. I might throw that in, if I change my mind about replying at all.
Trimmer Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Hm, I'll think about this; it's a reasonable way to handle it. I especially like the bit about how it's not in my power to absolve him. That sounds faintly superior and regal. I might throw that in, if I change my mind about replying at all. Yeah, it's kind of an adjustable approach, depending on how warm or cold you want to be, or how much you want to stick it to him, vs. being neutrally gracious. But the bottom line is that for both you and him, it makes it clear that - as reserviordog put it very well - you'll not be a part of helping him wipe his moral slate clean.
Storyrider Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Is it possible he is in the middle of a twelve step (AA type) program? Isn't asking for forgiveness one of the steps? Not saying you're obliged to forgive him, but perhaps this is the cause.
Trimmer Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Is it possible he is in the middle of a twelve step (AA type) program? Isn't asking for forgiveness one of the steps? Ahhh, I was thinking about this earlier, but it slipped my mind. Is the step "asking for forgiveness" or "offering apologies"? Not completely unrelated, but two slightly different things... edit: Just looked it up on Wikipedia... Sounds like step 9 (in the AA program, anyway) is "Make direct amends..." Seems like asking for forgiveness is a little selfish; I like "make amends" better...
Storyrider Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Good point. I'm not sure. Here are steps 8 and 9 as phrased in Wikipedia: 8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all. 9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
Author serial muse Posted June 19, 2007 Author Posted June 19, 2007 Is it possible he is in the middle of a twelve step (AA type) program? Isn't asking for forgiveness one of the steps? Not saying you're obliged to forgive him, but perhaps this is the cause. That actually occurred to me too, as a plausible explanation...but he's not a substance abuser, so probably not. Unless there's a 12-step program for pathological liars. Taking my own thread slightly OT - if someone's going through the 12 steps, is it really bad Manners to not forgive them? Because you're derailing their healing? Just curious now. Or, well, I guess it's the asking for forgiveness that matters anyway.
Storyrider Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 That actually occurred to me too, as a plausible explanation...but he's not a substance abuser, so probably not. Unless there's a 12-step program for pathological liars. Taking my own thread slightly OT - if someone's going through the 12 steps, is it really bad Manners to not forgive them? Because you're derailing their healing? Just curious now. Or, well, I guess it's the asking for forgiveness that matters anyway. Well, I think they have Gamblers Anonymous and some other permutations... Or maybe he is embarking on his own version of "My Name is Earl." Ha ha. I don't know. It might be bad karma to refuse to forgive him. It depends on who you ask...Judaism, Christianity, Dr. Phil?
Author serial muse Posted June 19, 2007 Author Posted June 19, 2007 Well, I think they have Gamblers Anonymous and some other permutations... Or maybe he is embarking on his own version of "My Name is Earl." Ha ha. I don't know. It might be bad karma to refuse to forgive them. It depends on who you ask...Judaism, Christianity, Dr. Phil? Right. Good thing he's not doing this on Rosh Hashanah. I don't want to be responsible for someone not making it into the Book of Life. On the other hand, we were both raised Catholic. So that frees me up; it's between him and his God. He just needs to get his butt to confession. What would Dr. Phil say??
Storyrider Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Ahem: (Disclaimer: this is Dr. Phil, not me. I prefer to do bad Dr. Phil imitations, like, "You're the one who drove this thing into the ditch." And "How's that been workin' for ya?") Forgiveness sets you free from the bonds of hatred, anger and resentment. The only way to rise above the negatives of a relationship in which you were hurt is to take the moral high ground, and forgive the person who hurt you.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 A friend of mine who is divorced 12 years, whose H moved in with his mistress, asked her in while she was dropping off the 14 year old son. He proceded to tell her how he had made a mess of all of their lives, screwed up the children, and was a miserable man. She didn't think he wanted to reconcile and couldn't imagine the purpose of this revelation of his. She happens to know that he and his cohabbitant are miserable because of the stories the kids tell. We've talked it to death and can't figure out his motives, but you've gotta know that she after dealing with his betrayal and lies it meant something to her. Doesn't change her life in anyway. He told her over and over how it was the worse mistake of his life and that he had paid for it 20X over and how he understood how he had ruined all of their lives. She told me that all she could think of at the time was how lucky she was that he had because they could have never been more than HE would have been with anyone! There doesn't exist a chain in this world that is any stronger than it's weakest link.
Trimmer Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Taking my own thread slightly OT - if someone's going through the 12 steps, is it really bad Manners to not forgive them? Because you're derailing their healing? Just curious now. Or, well, I guess it's the asking for forgiveness that matters anyway. But that's why I think it's good that they phrase it as "Make amends..." I think that's very different from "ask forgiveness." I think "make amends" is a commandment to give of onesself, for the person who is trying to recover to attempt to make things right in a selfless way. On the other hand, "ask forgiveness..." is essentially an attempt to get something, and I actually think that, depending on circumstances, it can be a little rude to go to someone you've wronged and ask for forgiveness. And that may be what has serial_muse a little confused in the original post. Is he really ONLY giving an apology, truly without expecting anything in return? If so, then it might be an act of grace. On the other hand, if he is actually doing this as a tool to get forgiveness, then it no longer carries the feel of grace, and seems burdened by selfishness. So that's why I'm glad step 9 says "make amends", instead of "ask forgiveness."
Author serial muse Posted June 19, 2007 Author Posted June 19, 2007 And that may be what has serial_muse a little confused in the original post. Is he really ONLY giving an apology, truly without expecting anything in return? If so, then it might be an act of grace. On the other hand, if he is actually doing this as a tool to get forgiveness, then it no longer carries the feel of grace, and seems burdened by selfishness. That's true, Trimmer - if he hadn't said that about wanting absolution, I think I would have felt comfortable just saying to myself, "Hm, well, it's nice to get an apology after all these years" and left it at that. Now I do feel burdened. Even though he put it as "it would be incredibly gracious" of me to say I forgive him - it feels like that's the goal. Still not sure what to do, so I'll probably do nothing.
bish Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Wow, this is funny. I had something like this happen to me. I caught an exgf while in college in bed with another guy. This was a high school sweetheart and someone I had been with for 5 years. We planned on getting married after college. Anyway, fast forward 3 years later. I haven't heard a lick from her other than about a month after I caught her she'd call up crying. So here we are 3 years later, I'm married, she's married and I get a letter from her. One of the things in the letter stated she wished things had been different. Immediately I became angry. So I put her letter in an envelope and addressed it to her husband. And with her original letter I put a post-it note saying simply, "Tell your wife to leave me the hell alone!" and put my name on it. I never heard from her since and always wondered what kind of argument that set off in her house.
Melissa277 Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Why don't you just say "Wow, I was so surprised to hear from you after all these years. It's too bad that you have unable to move on. May you find peace soon." If you don't respond, it will always be in the back of your mind. This way, it lets him know that you have moved on and that you are at peace ... without validating the hurt and pain he caused you. You don't thank him for apologizing or forgive him for anything. And since he did do a lot of work tracking you down, emailing you twice etc., you can "enjoy" (for lack of a better word) the fact that he is having conscience problems without letting him know it.
Herzen Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 "So, I've got a question. Let's say your cheating ex contacts you to say, basically, "sorry". Years later. Let's take for granted that he's not hoping to reconcile or anything, and for God's sake neither are you. He also says he's not looking for absolution - but it'd be incredibly gracious if I gave it to him." Mixed messages, again? Your ex tells you he's not seeking absolution but he'd love it if you forgave him. That's double edged. I have problems with this. First, contacting you and begging for forgiveness strikes me as presumptuous. He should attempt to reconnect with you first, and allow the process to evolve. The guy has little impulse control or delayed gratification skills--whether it's seeking extra-relationship sex or absolution. Second, the mixed message is manipulative. He should straight out ask for forgiveness--not ask for forgiveness by falsely telling you he's not. He's playing games. Last, I wonder if he's using this as a way to get back into your life: A trojan horse. I question is true motives. My wife and I have been separated for 3 years, nevertheless we see each other alot and have rebuilt in our way a relationship I destroyed. I never used melodramatic requests for absolution. Instead, you interact to the best of your abilities, try not to do any more harm and let the post-marital relationship take its natural course. It's not dramatic, but, at least in our case, it's effective. Your ex is into too much drama.
Sheba Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 I think that your ex deferred his guilt trip far too long....but not long enough. I am clearly more vindictive than other posters, because I think I would send a one word reply: "no". After all, you are still hurt. Why are you obliged to release him from his guilt? He created the situation, not you. Let him live with himself. In 5 or 10 years you might feel differently and give him a different answer, but for now perhaps he deserves to hear the truth. A lesson in life for him. I would also resent the way he asks. He seems to be saying that if you are a nice person you will give him what he wants. From that it sounds to me as if he has learned nothing at all since he betrayed you. I would be more sympathetic to a request couched in different terms- "I want you to know that I wish I had never hurt you and hope for a day when I will deserve your forgiveness".
whichwayisup Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 He also says he's not looking for absolution - but it'd be incredibly gracious if I gave it to him. That's bull. He's looking for forgiveness and/or closure so HE can feel better. I could be wrong, but I guess it's sort of like those who go to AA, there's a step in there when you need to contact all those you've done wrong to in some sort of way and appologize....To me, that is what your ex seems to be doing.
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