Author mammax3 Posted June 22, 2007 Author Posted June 22, 2007 Argh! Ap and Melovator, you're right! And so is every other person who keeps telling me this. I just really have to hear it and absorb it. It's up to HIM!! to keep contact. I need to STOP instigating. It is hard. Thank you again. I'll try to keep that in my face.
Author mammax3 Posted June 25, 2007 Author Posted June 25, 2007 Welcome to my cycle. I'm feeling down again, so much so it was difficult to put the kids to bed. It was so quiet and I couldn't turn off my thoughts. 4yo kept whispering "I love you Mummy" and I kept shushing him. At one point I said "Just close your eyes!" and he started to cry and said that I was being mean to him. Ugh. Ya, and with all my other thoughts... Sheesh. Tough night. So. I know I'm not supposed to instigate contact. And I've learned enough NOT to call him when an idea or an emotion hits me. This is why I'm writing here. I spoke with a good friend who thinks I should be focussing on shoring up legally, instead of what to tell the kids and when and stressing about the kids. (The viewpoint is that the kids are 'used' to Daddy being away, so they don't need to be told until they ask - a la "Santa Claus, Is he Real" idea. I disagreed and thought it was disrespectful to string the kids along thinking Daddy was going to come home and wait until they asked - which 4yo does anyway - since I don't want them to think that they have to ask to find out the truth. Anyway, I digress, I'm going to tell them since I fully disagree with the waiting to ask idea). I'd like our separation to remain civil, since we have to remain parents together. But H is showing ridiculously LITTLE interest in our children and that makes me say Eff it to the whole civility thang. I'm thinking of getting an attorney, writing up some legal separation agreement and sending it to him, at work if he won't give me his address. Because (if it hasn't been clear prior to this) he has taken a permenant job out there, and is now thinking of living in this far away city until the mood strikes him to return closer to 'home'. Like a parent can drop in and out of childrens lives. But, I'm aware I can't make him be anything that he's not ready or willing to be (ie. a father) so I have to accept that. But I don't want to be at the end of his stick, subject to whatever he's feeling at the moment. He has said he's being selfish and I don't want me and the kids to suffer for that, financially. My question (yes, I do have one! Thanks for reading thus far) is, should I inform him that I'm going to an attorney to get the papers ready and let him have a chance to come 'home' and let us write up one sans lawyers OR should I just send him the papers and deal with any adversarial bullSh*t that follows. It's been over 2 months and I haven't heard anything legally from him. The suggestion I usually get is that as long as he's still paying, wait for him to 'file'. That leaves me a bit at his mercy, no? Concievably he could come and snatch the children away since right now there's no custody or anything suggesting real separation. he's still 100% their dad (not that he would, but who knows??). I'd make an appt this week if you all think I should become more proactive... otherwise I need help in drafting a letter about coming home for mediation or writing our own separation agreement. Thanks.
sumdude Posted June 25, 2007 Posted June 25, 2007 Hire an attorney for a consultation .. in fact get two consultations from two different lawers. Second opinions are always good practice. This isn't the same as having one on retainer. You sit down with them for an hour or two, discuss your situation and they can explain your options and the laws. Then you can go ans think about what you want to do and how you want this to go. Learn what you can on your own about divorce and the laws in your state. There are some good sites out there ... google divorce law and your state. You should take control of the process where possible to put yourself in a better position to deal with it all. Make sure to find lawyers who specialize in divorce and family law. I'll give you the advice Gunny gave me. your STBXH is not a friend or your enemy but he is now your adversary. Time to play a combination of chess and poker. Keep a few moves ahead and don't show all your cards. Getting pro-active is a good thing, you'll start to feel more in control of your life and future. And ... start thinking and calling him STBXH ...... soon to be EX husband ... it will help you detach a bit and move on. Don't know if this site was recommenede to you yet but it has great advice. http://www.divorcerecovery101.com
GreenEyedLady Posted June 25, 2007 Posted June 25, 2007 My question (yes, I do have one! Thanks for reading thus far) is, should I inform him that I'm going to an attorney to get the papers ready and let him have a chance to come 'home' and let us write up one sans lawyers OR should I just send him the papers and deal with any adversarial bullSh*t that follows. I'd make an appt this week if you all think I should become more proactive... otherwise I need help in drafting a letter about coming home for mediation or writing our own separation agreement.Thanks. You need to be proactive... Let me tell you what happened to me when I told XH that I was going to be filing for D (I was waiting for my financial aid from school so that I had money for the retainer): he served me with papers three days later in the middle of me teaching my class... Don't give him the upper hand here...I know how much you want it to be civil, but you need to make YOUR BEST INTERESTS A PRIORITY...because that's what he's doing... Get an attorney and don't do anything without their advice... (((HUGS)))
Melovator Posted June 25, 2007 Posted June 25, 2007 Mammax remember he has no right anymore to know what you are doing. That includes you seeking legal advice- and seek legal advice!!! If the situation re: residency of the kids is stressing you out then do something about it. Don't live with the stress. I know how it is when you're tired and stressed and it makes you grumpy with your child when normally what they're doing wouldn't bother you or would charm you. That why you do have to what sumdude says and detach- he's the ex- as hard as it is to think it. Because any hope you're holding is eating up your emotional resources and taking them away from your children when they really need it. Believe me I know its hard but it gets easier and when you find yourself feeling the joy in your children you deserve without having to muster it you'll find it starts to get even more easy. You can be civil without being an emotional doormat. You can be friendly while asserting your legal rights. He wants to get upset- let HIM get upset- don't let him upset you- you are doing what you need to do so that you don't have to feel this way anymore. Take care of yourself and your little ones.
azianpride143 Posted June 25, 2007 Posted June 25, 2007 The hardest thing to do is to let go. I know you are hoping that there is still some shred of hope there. You need to take action and prepare yourself for the rough road ahead. I'm sorry to say this, but I doubt if he cares about you at all. It's hard to think that this person you married is no longer there and is now a complete stranger. Take legal action and know your rights. This will allow you to protect yourself and what is right for your kids. Under your current living arrangements, you should have full legal and physical custody of the kids. He can have some visitation rights if he wants to. But for now go for 100%. Fight to get some alimony you deserve it. This should knock some sense in him. If he even cares to be involved with the kids at all. Stop worrying about his relationship with the kids. That's the choice he makes if he wants to remain a father to your children. You can't make him. Take care.
Author mammax3 Posted June 26, 2007 Author Posted June 26, 2007 Thank you. That's what I thought, in my heart. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't seeing my situation any more skewed than I already am, making sure I was seeing this from all angles. I am going to get legal representation. Now that this is what I've decided on, I'm really nervous that he's already started. I'm also just really nervous. I've got butterflies in my tummy. I suppose that's normal. Thanks for all your input. If there's anything else you can think of that I maybe have missed, please let me know.
azianpride143 Posted June 26, 2007 Posted June 26, 2007 Mamax since I am going through the divorce process I can answer some of your questions. Feel free to PM me and I'll give you my contact info. I know you are going through a lot. It's the least I can do for you and your kids.
Author mammax3 Posted July 1, 2007 Author Posted July 1, 2007 I've been doing a lot of thinking since I've gone NC (like you do when you've got kids together) and he really hasn't been trying to keep in contact with me and the kids. Although, he did try that time at the OP when he called twice, and another time when he asked how I was doing. But it seems to be as it suits him. And he's definitely NOT consistent about when he calls. 4yo has been talking about him a LOT these last few days. Will Daddy EVER come home? Does he miss me? Daddy loves me. Do you love Daddy? Mommies love kids more than Daddies because they do everything for kids, but Daddies love kids too. Daddy will bring me that home? That is Daddy's *. Not all at once, but at quiet times when it's apparent he's sitting there thinking about him. And the jerk has NO clue, nor does he seems to care AT ALL. 4yo called him today and asked when he's coming home again. No return, yet. But, I've been thinking, as I said up there. Our marriage has been going down for longer than I think. He's been pulling from our marriage as much as I've been pushing (I'm not going to delve too deeply in that push-me-pull-me dance) him out. In terms of house, and kids, I've been denying him his own 'voice' and he's been steadily muting himself. Crazy. What is love? What is a relationship? I don't think I've ever known. I was thinking of my previous bf's and R's prior to this one, and I was only there because it fit at the time - to make a foursome with another friend, because the guy was handsome, because my mother liked him and he drove... I never particularly loved the guy. I liked them, and they were nice etc. And that made me wonder about X... At the beginning we were amazing, and as that started to wane, I just kept thinking we were still that couple. But we were changing and moving away from each other and that couple. We were still a good fit - since we knew each other well and we did love each other (still do?) but we weren't that same solid couple with all the deliciousness that goes with it. Is that a relationship? Is that love? I'm not even being silly with these questions... I thought a R changed into a mature love, but I'm beginning to see what X has been saying. I think he's right! He is a louse still, and has apparently no desire to have/see/talk to the kids, but the sights he's shown about him and me have merit. What do I do now?
azianpride143 Posted July 1, 2007 Posted July 1, 2007 Do not forget this man left you for another woman while you were pregnant with your baby. Now he's abandoned his own family. I know your still down and hoping. But you need to do what's best for you and your kids. Fight for your legal right. Do not wait in the sidelines hoping one day he'll come to his senses and come back.
Gunny376 Posted July 1, 2007 Posted July 1, 2007 MamaMax! Toughen up! WoMan up! You're my Marine Corps recurting poster child for doing such! You're all day tough, and all day hard! You can do this! OoooooooRaahhhhha! For MamaMax! Get some! You've got what it takes! Your MY Corps! Hard CORPS! Your all day strong!
Melovator Posted July 1, 2007 Posted July 1, 2007 All my love to you Mammax, it must be breaking your heart when your four year old asks where daddy is. Is there a parent helpline or something in your area you could call or visit? They might be able to give you some advice about how to handle telling the kids. He's not being a proper parent at the moment, so you can't wait for him to start, you gotta do what's best for the kids and yourself, not him. In terms of house, and kids, I've been denying him his own 'voice' and he's been steadily muting himself. Crazy. Did you really deny him a voice? Or did he just never speak up and step up? Because he could have said something about how he felt and obviously didn't. What is love? What is a relationship? Buggered if I know! Maybe that's the problem, we don't know what we really want from a relationship when we get into one... I am pondering these questions... I thought a R changed into a mature love, but I'm beginning to see what X has been saying. I think he's right! He is a louse still, and has apparently no desire to have/see/talk to the kids, but the sights he's shown about him and me have merit. It is supposed to change into mature love- when you realise that love is an action (or series of) not just a rather nice fizz in your stomach and loins. Don't go accepting his version of events, its only designed to make him feel good about himself and don't think about what he's thinking! (This is as much for my own benefit)... What do I do now? What do you WANT to do now? That's the hard question. I keep trying to picture how I want my life to be in five years time, what I want to be doing, where I want to be living, how I want to be living. Haven't got all the details figured out but I'll get there... You stay strong mammax, don't call him, he has to make a relationship with the kids, you can't make one for him. If he won't make the effort it is not your fault and is no reflection on you as a mother, it is a reflection on him as a person.
Gunny376 Posted July 1, 2007 Posted July 1, 2007 What do I do now? What do you WANT to do now? That's the hard question. I keep trying to picture how I want my life to be in five years time, what I want to be doing, where I want to be living, how I want to be living. Haven't got all the details figured out but I'll get there... Hello! That's the question? It's not about HIM, its about YOU! And yours! And the rest of YOUR life!
Melovator Posted July 1, 2007 Posted July 1, 2007 Hello! That's the question? It's not about HIM, its about YOU! And yours! And the rest of YOUR life! I'm sorry if I speak hippie human services, its my up bringing and training. Gunny is forcefully right. As he should be. You stay strong like an Amazon.
Ladyjane14 Posted July 1, 2007 Posted July 1, 2007 Wow... great replies, especially this: It is supposed to change into mature love- when you realise that love is an action (or series of) not just a rather nice fizz in your stomach and loins. Don't go accepting his version of events, its only designed to make him feel good about himself and don't think about what he's thinking! When you spend a good bit of time reading here at LS, it's easy to see that romantic relationships are problematic. LS and sites like it represent a microcosm to a degree, but you can never forget that what you're looking at here is slanted toward trouble. We don't come to places like this until we're looking for answers, right? The common denominator in folks who are having these kind of troubles is very often that somebody within the relationship has a skewed view of what 'love' means. It's NOT the version that Hollyweird has sold us, that's for sure. And it's not until we manage enough emotional maturity that we're able to recognize and accept that we've been hoodwinked. Love is a verb, not just a noun. And if we want to perpetuate it within our relationships we have to treat it as such. Your STBXH was too emotionally immature to come to grips with that. Unfortunately, there are many people out in the world who NEVER do.
Gunny376 Posted July 1, 2007 Posted July 1, 2007 Wow... great replies, especially this: When you spend a good bit of time reading here at LS, it's easy to see that romantic relationships are problematic. LS and sites like it represent a microcosm to a degree, but you can never forget that what you're looking at here is slanted toward trouble. We don't come to places like this until we're looking for answers, right? The common denominator in folks who are having these kind of troubles is very often that somebody within the relationship has a skewed view of what 'love' means. It's NOT the version that Hollyweird has sold us, that's for sure. And it's not until we manage enough emotional maturity that we're able to recognize and accept that we've been hoodwinked. Love is a verb, not just a noun. And if we want to perpetuate it within our relationships we have to treat it as such. Your STBXH was too emotionally immature to come to grips with that. Unfortunately, there are many people out in the world who NEVER do. STAND UP! Stand up and testify! Stand up and tell the TRUTH! Stand up and TELL IT LIKE IT IS! Don't hold back! Forever and ever ~ AMEN! THAT'S the disconnect between so many people. There's a difference between "puppy-dog" love, mature love and ever-lasting love.
Ladyjane14 Posted July 1, 2007 Posted July 1, 2007 Exactly! People seem to always underestimate what a powerful animal infatuation is. Yeah, "puppy love" sounds like a warm, little, fuzzy thing, but boy-howdy that sure as heck isn't always the case. Sometimes it's a rabid beast, complete with fang and claw... devouring families and lives. You don't have to look far to see the destruction that our ubiquitous false notion of romantic love has caused to our society.
GreenEyedLady Posted July 1, 2007 Posted July 1, 2007 I am going to go against the grain a little here...I think it's good that you are taking ownership of your part of the problems in the M...that's a sign that you are going to grow as a person and discover who YOU are...not as a W, not as a mother, but as a woman... Now that said, your STBXH needs to take ownership in his part...if there were problems, he needs to tell you so you KNOW...it doesn't give him a license to go out and have an affair and abandon his family... As for what you should tell your children, tell them what is age-appropriate...talk to your pediatrician, they'll have some ideas for you...I have always erred on the side of caution in my own situation...I don't lie, but my children don't need to know all the dirty details, either...what's between adults, should stay between adults...Everything I have told my children, I have made sure I have been calm and not angry...Our job as parents is to protect and guide and sometimes you do have to protect them from the other parent until they're old enough to understand... You're getting alot of tough love here on the forum and I hope it doesn't hurt your feelings...going through a divorce is hard, period...mix in a brand new baby and your XH forgetting he ever had a family, only intensifies the feelings...and what you're feeling is normal...this came out of nowhere for you...I really feel for you...stay strong but don't forget it's ok to cry and mourn too... When you divorce it's like a death...you have to say goodbye to all the feelings and ideals you had about your marriage...the ideal that you marry forever is ripped away from you...and that's not even counting all the feelings you have about your spouse-you'll go from loving him to hating him, sometimes within seconds...but it's ok, that's part of the process...be strong for your children, but you take care of yourself too, k? It's hard to be where you are right now and I admire you...do what you need to do to get to where you want to go...One day this all will be over... Now, it's time for you to do the work rediscovering who you are and what you want... (((HUGS)))
sumdude Posted July 1, 2007 Posted July 1, 2007 Wow... great replies, especially this: When you spend a good bit of time reading here at LS, it's easy to see that romantic relationships are problematic. LS and sites like it represent a microcosm to a degree, but you can never forget that what you're looking at here is slanted toward trouble. We don't come to places like this until we're looking for answers, right? The common denominator in folks who are having these kind of troubles is very often that somebody within the relationship has a skewed view of what 'love' means. It's NOT the version that Hollyweird has sold us, that's for sure. And it's not until we manage enough emotional maturity that we're able to recognize and accept that we've been hoodwinked. Love is a verb, not just a noun. And if we want to perpetuate it within our relationships we have to treat it as such. Your STBXH was too emotionally immature to come to grips with that. Unfortunately, there are many people out in the world who NEVER do. AMEN ... and a big sigh... It's the source of that ever popular phrase.. " I love you but I'm not IN love with you." When that physical, flaming passion & chemistry thing wears off.. Some people think the relationship is over. That stuff is addictive and if it's missing long enough and other problems come up they'll feel it somewhere else and go for it like smoking crack cocaine.... Then eventually it wears off again ... rinse repeat .. over and over. Looking at my exes history ... it's like a serial drama ... (aka soap opera) Like most addictions the first buzz is so good ... then you keep going back to find the perfect high ... over and over ... until one day you find yourself empty because it owns you and doesn't even work anymore.
Ladyjane14 Posted July 1, 2007 Posted July 1, 2007 I must've missed the part where Mamma was getting "tough love" from the forum. I've seen some cheer leading, some 'don't-give-up-on-yourself' type language... but nothing that is critical of her. She's posted nothing which would warrant it. She shouldn't be holding herself accountable for her STBXH's skewed and unrealistic perception of marriage and family life. She shouldn't be discounting what she knows in her heart to be true in regard to emotional maturity and how that should apply to loving relationships. She's spending time wondering if there was something she did wrong, and I think it's natural for her to do that. Doing a good postmortem is part of the process after all is said and done. But at some point, it's also important for her to acknowledge that there is NOTHING she could've done differently that would've changed the outcome since her mate was inherently defective.
Ladyjane14 Posted July 1, 2007 Posted July 1, 2007 Great post, Sumdude. You know what blows my mind though... When it comes to "that ever popular phrase, I love you but I'm not IN love with you."... there seems these days an inexplicable number of people who don't understand that "I love you" should be the actionable part of the phrase.
sumdude Posted July 1, 2007 Posted July 1, 2007 Great post, Sumdude. You know what blows my mind though... When it comes to "that ever popular phrase, I love you but I'm not IN love with you."... there seems these days an inexplicable number of people who don't understand that "I love you" should be the actionable part of the phrase. exactly...then they act as if they're doing you a favor by getting out of your life.. Which may or may not be true.
Melovator Posted July 1, 2007 Posted July 1, 2007 Everyone's right mammax, why should you or any of us have to waste your/ our precious time (and it is precious) on someone who doesn't have the emotional maturity to not 'be in love' but to 'do love'? Maybe that's what we should start saying; not "I love whoever" but "I do love for whoever" and then its not "They love me" its "They do love for me". Yes the phrasing is awkward, but then it allows you to ask questions all the time about "Who is doing the love?" and not just in a Barry White walrus of love way. So love becomes the action all the time. And I didn't know that until I had a child, didn't really know it. Sorry gotta go crying jag coming on, going to take my son out to stop it.
TXButterfly Posted July 2, 2007 Posted July 2, 2007 Just sending you a hug mammax3. You CAN get through this. Take care of yourself and your kids. I agree with whomever said to talk to your pediatrician for advice on handling the kiddos' emotions. I'm so so sorry you are going through this, you sound like an amazing mom and you don't deserve this!!! My STBXH "isn't in love" with me anymore either & I KNOW it's infatuation. So insulting...but also a little relief b/c that shows he isn't grown up enough to deserve the love I have for him. The same goes for you - you deserve so much more. Take care!!!
Author mammax3 Posted July 2, 2007 Author Posted July 2, 2007 Thanks everybody! Gunny, you're posts made me smile. I love that expression, All day hard. That's what it feels like a lot of the time. All day hard. And thanks for calling me your poster child and that I'm your corps. I'm not so fragile, so it doesn't hurt my feelings. It feels like cheerleading. I realized today that I am still hoping that we'll get back together, and it came as a surprise. Some of you have said (Gunny you come to mind) that fiances should go to a marriage counsellor of some sort prior to getting married and figure out how it's all supposed to go down for the long haul. I never thought X and I needed that. We did. We were a good couple, but we never - not ONCE - discussed our opinions as to who does what (or do we hire someone) and who works, and who stays home with kids, and do we fight in front of the kids? and on and on... We just thought we loved each other and so Love will keep us together... Mhmm. It doesn't. I wanted to call him and tell him that I see what happened in our R and it's fixable (but I'm very good at not calling/emailing when I'm emotionally primed) but I didn't. If he wanted it fixed he'd call me, and if he wanted this family he'd call or come back to our area. He's done neither. Back to your hilarious comment, LJ, about X being inherently defective () I think you're right. As some of you have said, I am trying to take stock in how I contributed and I'm beginning to see how I did, but it was all potentially fixable, if X wanted it to be. He didn't, and I have to remember how and when he decided to tell me he wanted to separate. And the fact that the weeks and months prior to this decision he was still conducting life as usual here (sex, house plans, summer plans, baby plans etc) which hurts a lot too since he knew, all that time he knew - AND he had a little chit on the side. Ugly. So when I feel that hopeful side rear up, I remind her of the Ugly side of X, and how he's inherently defective. That hurts too. I really appreciate all your posts contemplating love and relationships. The love as a verb has never been posed to me before, and it's an interesting concept. It makes sense... There is so much I've seen post-R, that I wish I'd known. But I wonder if it'd be different. I have to say, him leaving was the best thing that happened to me as a mother. I'm so much more patient and giving to the kids. And I don't get as frustrated with them. I feel I'm a calmer person - but maybe it's the hormones! :laugh: I'm sleepy. We got home from fireworks SO late - I hope the kids sleep in tomorrow! You're all awesome. I'll have more to say tomorrow...
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