Storyrider Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 Have been reading (and laughing) at the "surrendered" threads. But there is a grain of truth there. It can be seen all around us, in relationships of all kinds, on and off these boards. A relationship (friendship, love, whatever) is a meeting of two souls. Whether you believe in anything spiritual or not. You could call it a meeting of two identities if you want. I see it all the time. Even in myself, of course. One person is so attached to the trappings of who they are, opinions, tastes, preconceptions, all these surface aspects of identity, leaving no room for the reality of the other person to get it. It is like having a very hard, impenetrable shell. Sometimes both people are like this, and it is just like banging heads together. Someone's very soul may be knocking on your door, asking to get in, and your shell, or your ego, might be so very thick that you cannot even clearly see that person, let alone open the door. Or you actually misconstrue it as an attack because you are so defensive. But your core self is something so much more rich and unique than a collection of opinions or experiences. When all those are peeled away there is something vulnerable and real underneath. It is real because it is vulnerable. And that is where real connection with another occurs. And the saddest thing of all is that this could be within a marriage, LTR, long-term friendship, or even with a family member. You have to let go of self a bit in order to truly commune with another self. And then it is the most beautiful thing. But if you are stuck on your preconceptions and your fears and your judgments, you will miss it. It will pass you by. You may not even hear the other person knocking.
Krytellan Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 You have to let go of self a bit in order to truly commune with another self. And then it is the most beautiful thing. But if you are stuck on your preconceptions and your fears and your judgments, you will miss it. It will pass you by. You may not even hear the other person knocking. Well said. I give myself up to every relationship because I believe that it's the risk of being hurt that makes it so wonderful when it succeeds.
Trialbyfire Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 For some reason, I can't decide if I want to laugh or cry about this thread. You might want to consider being a therapist...
Author Storyrider Posted June 14, 2007 Author Posted June 14, 2007 For some reason, I can't decide if I want to laugh or cry about this thread. You might want to consider being a therapist... Hmm, TBF. I think that means you like what I said, but I'm not sure...I hope so.
Touche Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 Well said. I give myself up to every relationship because I believe that it's the risk of being hurt that makes it so wonderful when it succeeds. Yes, I agree. The important thing though is to know when the right time is to take that risk. And really, whether it should be taken at all. That's the tricky part.
IpAncA Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 You have to let go of self a bit in order to truly commune with another self. And then it is the most beautiful thing. But if you are stuck on your preconceptions and your fears and your judgments, you will miss it. It will pass you by. You may not even hear the other person knocking. I couldn't agree more. That use to be my problem for many years until I had some misunderstandings cleared up.
Trialbyfire Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 Hmm, TBF. I think that means you like what I said, but I'm not sure...I hope so. Yes, I did like it... But... I didn't want to hear it... But... I did...
Star Gazer Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 Someone's very soul may be knocking on your door, asking to get in, and your shell, or your ego, might be so very thick that you cannot even clearly see that person, let alone open the door. Or you actually misconstrue it as an attack because you are so defensive. But your core self is something so much more rich and unique than a collection of opinions or experiences. When all those are peeled away there is something vulnerable and real underneath. It is real because it is vulnerable. And that is where real connection with another occurs. And the saddest thing of all is that this could be within a marriage, LTR, long-term friendship, or even with a family member. You have to let go of self a bit in order to truly commune with another self. And then it is the most beautiful thing. But if you are stuck on your preconceptions and your fears and your judgments, you will miss it. It will pass you by. You may not even hear the other person knocking. YES!! You get it!!! You don't have to agree with everything within the "surrendered" books, but there's a HUGE grain of salt there - a boulder of salt, even. Truthfully, I really found "The Surrendered Single" very enlightening. I have a great fear of vulnerability, and have built up a sort of wall. In the past, this wall has prevented me from getting hurt too badly, which I thought was great because the wall in turn allowed me to bounce right back up and into the game. But that wall is what has caused the good relationships I've had to end in the first place (for the most part, anyway).
Author Storyrider Posted June 14, 2007 Author Posted June 14, 2007 Yes, I agree. The important thing though is to know when the right time is to take that risk. And really, whether it should be taken at all. That's the tricky part. Yes. It is hard to read the signs. Sometimes we close ourselves off for the wrong reason. And sometimes we open ourselves up for the wrong reason. And I guess the extreme is being automatically and permanently closed. Cynical. And then no one can get in.
Author Storyrider Posted June 14, 2007 Author Posted June 14, 2007 YES!! You get it!!! You don't have to agree with everything within the "surrendered" books, but there's a HUGE grain of salt there - a boulder of salt, even. Truthfully, I really found "The Surrendered Single" very enlightening. I have a great fear of vulnerability, and have built up a sort of wall. In the past, this wall has prevented me from getting hurt too badly, which I thought was great because the wall in turn allowed me to bounce right back up and into the game. But that wall is what has caused the good relationships I've had to end in the first place (for the most part, anyway). Right, SG. Or maybe even to not get started because of misunderstanding or mistrust.
Star Gazer Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 For some reason, I can't decide if I want to laugh or cry about this thread. You might want to consider being a therapist... See, TBF - I told ya the book/concept was worth considering.
Krytellan Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 Yes, I agree. The important thing though is to know when the right time is to take that risk. And really, whether it should be taken at all. That's the tricky part. Kind of I suppose. If I have to struggle to decide, then that tells me the relationship likely isn't for me.
Trialbyfire Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 See, TBF - I told ya the book/concept was worth considering. Oh fine, rub it in, just like a woman... Conceptually speaking, leaving yourself wide open is one scary place to be. As for finding the right mate to do this with, another frightening thought. To step outside the mousehole, is asking for a cat's paw... and yet... No risk, no return. Troubling thoughts.
whichwayisup Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 I have no ego when it comes to friendships, either with family, friends, neighbours or online friends. Maybe because of that I can get hurt as I tend to wear my heart on my sleeve, I give too much, and I don't ask much for return - But, to me, that's a good thing because I get to experience a real bond with people and that makes the friendships even more special and meaningful. Wow, I'm sappy today......
whichwayisup Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 BUT, I DO have abit of an ego at times with my husband, but that's cuz at times he really pisses me off! LMFAO!! It's an even balance though, atleast I'd like to think so.
Star Gazer Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 Conceptually speaking, leaving yourself wide open is one scary place to be. As for finding the right mate to do this with, another frightening thought. To step outside the mousehole, is asking for a cat's paw... and yet... No risk, no return. Troubling thoughts. Terrifying, but necessary.
Author Storyrider Posted June 14, 2007 Author Posted June 14, 2007 I have no ego when it comes to friendships, either with family, friends, neighbours or online friends. Maybe because of that I can get hurt as I tend to wear my heart on my sleeve, I give too much, and I don't ask much for return - But, to me, that's a good thing because I get to experience a real bond with people and that makes the friendships even more special and meaningful. Wow, I'm sappy today...... That isn't sappy at all, WW. I think people who are as you describe are a rare breed, very loving and giving, and valuable to any community. And you're right, it makes things more meaningful.
Touche Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 BUT, I DO have abit of an ego at times with my husband, but that's cuz at times he really pisses me off! LMFAO!! It's an even balance though, atleast I'd like to think so. Well, see to me that's healthy. I guess the problem I have with those books (or at least the Wife one) is that I'm thinking the message is that in order to have a good marriage you have to check your ego at the door. And I don't think that's healthy. Why should we have to completely give up who really are just to make a relationship work? If we're with the right people, they should just accept us as we are. Just like we should accept our mates for who they are...flaws and all.
Author Storyrider Posted June 14, 2007 Author Posted June 14, 2007 I looked at the book a long time ago and don't remember exactly what it says. But I'm not talking about giving up personality. I'm just talking about being able to look beyond personality to something deeper. So I don't think we're disagreeing, Touche. I think we are saying the same thing. When I use the term Ego, I'm using it in a negative sense as something that is keeping you aloof. But I'm not saying at all that anyone should give up their identity. I think when you strip away some of the things that comprise Ego, you get more to the core of who you are and what you're passionate about.
whichwayisup Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 Why should we have to completely give up who really are just to make a relationship work? If we're with the right people, they should just accept us as we are. Just like we should accept our mates for who they are...flaws and all. I agree, noone should give up WHO they are, the essence anyway. With my H and I, we tend to let ego get in the way at certain times, usually when it comes to really petty stuff, but not the BIG stuff. There is a time and a place to put down the foot and give in, but honestly, most of the time it just doesn't matter. He and I are alot alike that way and neither of us get too angry or upset at eachother.
whichwayisup Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 That isn't sappy at all, WW. I think people who are as you describe are a rare breed, very loving and giving, and valuable to any community. And you're right, it makes things more meaningful. Thanks.
quankanne Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 One person is so attached to the trappings of who they are, opinions, tastes, preconceptions, all these surface aspects of identity, leaving no room for the reality of the other person to get it. It is like having a very hard, impenetrable shell. Sometimes both people are like this, and it is just like banging heads together. this is a very interesting comment … and it reminds me of what I recently read in a "Catholic Q&A" book I'd found. There was a question raised about adultery, and the book pointed out that it was just an extra-marital affair that made up adultery, but the very thing you'd pointed out in your original post. That a person can put self before marriage and hurt the marriage the same way an adulterous affair can – one of the specific examples was vanity, of how a vain person could sometimes ridicule their spouse at the expense of making him or herself look good; another example was the person who placed a higher value on things than the marriage – kind of letting the "keeping up with the Joneses" contest get out of hand. as kooky as it sounds, it makes sense, because that kind of selfishness hinders a relationship rather than enhances it ...
Author Storyrider Posted June 14, 2007 Author Posted June 14, 2007 Hi Q. BTW, in the above quoted text I made a typo. It should read "get in" not "get it." Anyway, yes. I probably unwittingly speak in Catholic terms sometimes b/c of my H's influence. I'm not speaking so much about selfishness vs. selflessness, which is clearly also an issue, but more about being closed to the invasive "otherness" of a loved one (or potential loved one) and pushing them away or keeping them out.
Trialbyfire Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 Terrifying, but necessary. I've thought about this and as usual, want to add some common sense verbiage to it. When individuals meet, there's a barrage of both sensory, emotional and intellectual exchanges. As you slowly get to know the other person, you begin to open the door a millimeter at a time. Once you've advanced to the exclusive relationship stage, the door opens faster. The final stage to the courting relationship is commitment and so it goes from there to the next level. To throw open the doors and invest immediately can be an intoxicating thought. But is this solely the battering ram comprised of endorphins speaking? Probably or maybe not. The bottom line is, be cautious with your selection.
johan Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 I see it all the time. Even in myself, of course. One person is so attached to the trappings of who they are, opinions, tastes, preconceptions, all these surface aspects of identity, leaving no room for the reality of the other person to get it. It is like having a very hard, impenetrable shell. Sometimes both people are like this, and it is just like banging heads together. That's what I would call a self-centered person. Or maybe a narcissist. Someone's very soul may be knocking on your door, asking to get in, and your shell, or your ego, might be so very thick that you cannot even clearly see that person, let alone open the door. Or you actually misconstrue it as an attack because you are so defensive. I still think this could be a very narcissistic person you're talking about. But there are also people who guard their hearts from any potential harm. And they may actually be protecting their hearts from good things while they are at it. Being betrayed or rejected when you've invested a lot of yourself in someone creates a pain that is hard to forget. But your core self is something so much more rich and unique than a collection of opinions or experiences. When all those are peeled away there is something vulnerable and real underneath. It is real because it is vulnerable. And that is where real connection with another occurs. I agree. But I also think there are few people who are so guarded that who they really are doesn't peek out every once in a while. The other side of it is that there are some people who seem to be an open book, who will readily share the details of their lives with you, and seem to be nothing but happy warm goodness. And then you see them snarl at a child or mistreat an animal or scream and swear at their mother, and you see what's under the hood. You have to let go of self a bit in order to truly commune with another self. And then it is the most beautiful thing. But if you are stuck on your preconceptions and your fears and your judgments, you will miss it. It will pass you by. You may not even hear the other person knocking. I agree. There is nothing more satisfying than being accepted for who you are, and being loved inside and out. It's just a shame people don't wear signs that say "yeah, I would actually love you that much" or "no, I can't do it, sorry". If I had three wishes, I would use one on that: "make it easy for me to know who would truly love me."
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