so ... is the BS a fool if they forgive? why or why not?

[silktricks]

There has been a lot of discussion on another very long thread about the BS. I obviously do not think I was a fool for forgiving my husband, but the implication has been made many times that the BS is a fool.

 

So feel free to give your opinion!

[Trialbyfire]

No, a betrayed spouse is not a fool to forgive, although everyone needs to be 100% aware of why the WS wandered and there must be consequences for the wandering. Each betrayed spouse must make his/her decision based on a position of knowledge, not blinders.

[shellys-trying]

There has been a lot of discussion on another very long thread about the BS. I obviously do not think I was a fool for forgiving my husband, but the implication has been made many times that the BS is a fool.

 

So feel free to give your opinion!

 

I know I'm not a fool for forgiving my H. He's 150% different person than he was before or during the A.

So, I think I made the right choice to stay in the M. It took me a while but I slowly put my trust in him andfell in love with him all over again and I don't regret it.

 

I believe that people can change.

[Lizzie60]

There has been a lot of discussion on another very long thread about the BS. I obviously do not think I was a fool for forgiving my husband, but the implication has been made many times that the BS is a fool.

 

So feel free to give your opinion!

 

I think each situation is different... I wouldn't say that the BS is always a fool to forgive...by in my mind... most men cheat again... once they taste the 'excitment' that 'rush' it's hard for them to stop...

 

It also depends on the reason to forgive... If you 'forgive' your spouse because you just can't face the thought to live alone then you're a fool...

 

If you 'forgive' because you truly feel that it is over and you can trust him again, then I guess it's okay to give it another try...

 

I also feel that, often, the BS has a lot to do with the cheating. There's always two sides... it is extremely rare that a spouse cheat when they are very happy at home...

 

I know it's not easy ... and I also know that it is nearly 'impossible' not to cheat, ever... I just can't believe it is feasible, on a long-term basis.

[BurriedAlive]

I think that it really depends on the situation and the circumstances.... In my case, I think W was a complete fool. I know the lying continued for long after D day and I know he has cheated on her probably for the entire duration of their M. W said she was very interested in finding out "truths" but when I answered her questions truthfully, she only seemed to care about why I wanted her to know the truth. Well, duh, you just asked me the question..... The impression I got after many conversations with W was that in the end, she really didn't want to know the actually truth - that she would rather believe what her H was telling her which was complete crap.

 

Foolishness is in the eye of the beholder. Of course I think she's a fool because I have more knowledge about her H than she does and probably more than she will ever have given her own personal choice.

 

If I was her, I would have kicked his a$$ to the curb. But that's just me. Unless you have walked a mile in someone's shoes,.....

[silktricks]

If you have to ask for opinions on a decision, you must not be that confident in your decission in the first place.

 

that's my opinion....

 

You seemed so intent on telling all BS they are fools. I wanted to give you a forum for it. :lmao:

 

As I stated, I don't think I'm a fool, and was certainly not asking your opinion on my decision.

[Freedom Now]

I think that if the MM is TRULY sorry for what he has done and truly never cheats again, then the BS has every reason to forgive.

 

It would be hard, but if the effort is made to make amends to the wife, then it is a wonderful thing to forgive.

 

Unfortunately, in my experience and my experience only, my xMM's wife is trying very hard to save the marriage. And MY xMM isn't worth it. He is still betraying her by contacting me.

 

His attempts at saving the marriage are weak, at best.

 

But that is MY situation. And I feel sorry for her. She is wasting her life with a man who will cheat again. I am absolutely positive of it.

 

True forgiveness, in these situations, goes hand in hand with true repentance.

[shellys-trying]

I think that if the MM is TRULY sorry for what he has done and truly never cheats again, then the BS has every reason to forgive.

It would be hard, but if the effort is made to make amends to the wife, then it is a wonderful thing to forgive.

True forgiveness, in these situations, goes hand in hand with true repentance.

 

This is basically what I was trying to say. Thank you, FN, for putting it alittle easier to understand.

I feel this is the case with me and my H.

My H was a good guy in everyday life. But, with me, he wasn't. I think it was because he grew up around too much crap, split homes, etc and he brought that into our M. I was raised the exact opposite. So, when we M, I was in for the whole happily ever after.

It was hard to see after some yrs that my H wasn't the lovey dovey type. I always initiated snuggling. He was all for it once I started it. I think he was a private backward person and I tried and tried to work it out of him, to show him that he ccould be open and loving. That's the way i was. I still am.

Our kids have always been shown love. He wasn't really loving toward them either.

Then before our 12 anniversary, he cheated. He'd been acting funny for months. Unbeknowngst to me, he'd met her in May (of the yr of his A) and when August rolled around it was over, and it all came out.

Deep down I was floored he'd cheated. I had thought we'd made it almost 12 yrs and BAM! then he did it.

 

But, he was ready to dump her on dday. he never dealt with her (until she initiated it at work) in any way. He was done.

I made that abundantly clear dday when he agreed to come home and work on the M.

I believe he did because when he wasn't working, he was with me and the kids. He didn't even want to work any over time so we could be together more. That in itself was a change since during the A he'd worked every weekend (stopping at her house for an hour or so on his way to work).

He did keep a few details from me about the A, like that her brother worked there, which was no biggy anyway, so did her mom.

 

I'm just happy that it did work out with our reconciling because I wanted him back because I love him. I didn't want him back because I didn't want to be alone. Far from it. I had my kids, all wonderful 3 of them. They would have gotten me thru the D, had there been one.

I was an independent woman before I met H and I knew I could have taken care of myself and the kids on my own if I needed to. So, finances was out of the equation.

I think I lied to him tho', when we first got back together. I told him I could forgive him and it took a couple yrs to do that, but I have. He understood the whole road and he still says he can't believe I didn't kick him to the curb.

I think there's a point you get to when you have to put what the WS did behind you, if you truly want to be happy with THEM again. you can't keep dragging it up in your mind to let it have it's way with you.

there's apoint you have to get to where you say, STOP! He's shown me for how many yrs now that he's learned from his screw up and I need to show him I forgive him.

I believe I'm doing that. He doesn't deserve to pay, by my hand, for the rest of his life when he's doing his part to make our M work.

[Marielle]

I don t personally think that a BS if a fool if she takes him back, It s maybe not the best desicon in some cases, but it is understandable in particular cases. THere is too much between them.

 

I someone is a fool is the ow (I m an new xow), which got filled with lies and beleived them for a while.

[Tomcat33]

You seemed so intent on telling all BS they are fools. I wanted to give you a forum for it. :lmao:

 

As I stated, I don't think I'm a fool, and was certainly not asking your opinion on my decision.

 

Well seeing as you have taken out a whole thread in honour of what I am certain I NEVER said, I invite you to take it a step further and quote me link and all to the EXACT post where I said that a BS is a fool.

If you are going to start a whole thread base on what you are accusing me of saying, I think it's fair that you post my comment!!! It's fair to everyone reading and it gives your statement a lot more weight.

 

I obviously do not think I was a fool for forgiving my husband, but the implication has been made many times that the BS is a fool.

 

So feel free to give your opinion!

 

No actually, you DID ask for my opinion! If you didn't want me to respond then you should have said "EVERYONE but TOMCAT feel free to give your opinion.

 

I still think you are looking for reassurance for your own decission and that's fair, to forgive or not to forgive a cheater can cause a lot uncertainty.

[shellys-trying]

I still think you are looking for reassurance for your own decission and that's fair, to forgive or not to forgive a cheater can cause a lot uncertainty.

 

Oh, I don't think so. I think this thread was started from the other one to give people the chance to voice their thoughts. I don't think it has anything to do with any doubting on Silktricks' part.

I've given my opinion here,but that doesn't mean I posted to it to get others opinions because I'm doubting my decision.

[Freedom Now]

This is basically what I was trying to say. Thank you, FN, for putting it alittle easier to understand.

I feel this is the case with me and my H.

My H was a good guy in everyday life. But, with me, he wasn't. I think it was because he grew up around too much crap, split homes, etc and he brought that into our M. I was raised the exact opposite. So, when we M, I was in for the whole happily ever after.

It was hard to see after some yrs that my H wasn't the lovey dovey type. I always initiated snuggling. He was all for it once I started it. I think he was a private backward person and I tried and tried to work it out of him, to show him that he ccould be open and loving. That's the way i was. I still am.

Our kids have always been shown love. He wasn't really loving toward them either.

Then before our 12 anniversary, he cheated. He'd been acting funny for months. Unbeknowngst to me, he'd met her in May (of the yr of his A) and when August rolled around it was over, and it all came out.

Deep down I was floored he'd cheated. I had thought we'd made it almost 12 yrs and BAM! then he did it.

 

But, he was ready to dump her on dday. he never dealt with her (until she initiated it at work) in any way. He was done.

I made that abundantly clear dday when he agreed to come home and work on the M.

I believe he did because when he wasn't working, he was with me and the kids. He didn't even want to work any over time so we could be together more. That in itself was a change since during the A he'd worked every weekend (stopping at her house for an hour or so on his way to work).

He did keep a few details from me about the A, like that her brother worked there, which was no biggy anyway, so did her mom.

 

I'm just happy that it did work out with our reconciling because I wanted him back because I love him. I didn't want him back because I didn't want to be alone. Far from it. I had my kids, all wonderful 3 of them. They would have gotten me thru the D, had there been one.

I was an independent woman before I met H and I knew I could have taken care of myself and the kids on my own if I needed to. So, finances was out of the equation.

I think I lied to him tho', when we first got back together. I told him I could forgive him and it took a couple yrs to do that, but I have. He understood the whole road and he still says he can't believe I didn't kick him to the curb.

I think there's a point you get to when you have to put what the WS did behind you, if you truly want to be happy with THEM again. you can't keep dragging it up in your mind to let it have it's way with you.

there's apoint you have to get to where you say, STOP! He's shown me for how many yrs now that he's learned from his screw up and I need to show him I forgive him.

I believe I'm doing that. He doesn't deserve to pay, by my hand, for the rest of his life when he's doing his part to make our M work.

 

I think there has to come a time in reconciling the marriage that the BS must forgive. Without it, it would be incredibly hard to move forward.

 

With that said, he MUST make amends. And he must be completely repentant. I do believe it is possible.

 

And I commend you Shelly for sticking with the marriage. It takes more stamina to stay and tough things out then to throw in the towel.

 

I do hope that your husband appreciates the woman that you are.

 

Good for you.

 

You are one of those couples that survived.

 

That makes me happy.

[VirtualInsanity]

There has been a lot of discussion on another very long thread about the BS. I obviously do not think I was a fool for forgiving my husband, but the implication has been made many times that the BS is a fool.

 

So feel free to give your opinion!

It's going to depend on the circumstances.

 

If BS forgives, a lot of work ahead.

[silktricks]

I think there has to come a time in reconciling the marriage that the BS must forgive. Without it, it would be incredibly hard to move forward.

 

With that said, he MUST make amends. And he must be completely repentant. I do believe it is possible.

 

{snip}

 

You are one of those couples that survived.

 

That makes me happy.

 

It is happy to see a couple do well after hard times, isn't it? And it's also very nice to see someone say so. Shelly has worked hard at her marriage, and it shows.

 

Forgiveness is a rare thing in today's society. It's a good thing to see.

[silktricks]

Well seeing as you have taken out a whole thread in honour of what I am certain I NEVER said, I invite you to take it a step further and quote me link and all to the EXACT post where I said that a BS is a fool.

If you are going to start a whole thread base on what you are accusing me of saying, I think it's fair that you post my comment!!! It's fair to everyone reading and it gives your statement a lot more weight.

 

I obviously do not think I was a fool for forgiving my husband, but the implication has been made many times that the BS is a fool.

 

So feel free to give your opinion!

 

No actually, you DID ask for my opinion! If you didn't want me to respond then you should have said "EVERYONE but TOMCAT feel free to give your opinion.

 

I still think you are looking for reassurance for your own decission and that's fair, to forgive or not to forgive a cheater can cause a lot uncertainty.

 

TC, the fact that you can make what I said here, into me having uncertainty or looking for reassurance makes me sincerely wonder about what you understand about communication. You have stated many times that BS are at the least gullible and naive to forgive their husbands. Which of course implies that they are foolish, i.e. fools. I frankly do not have neither the time, the energy, nor the desire to reread all of your posts to find the exact quotes.

 

You obviously have a problem with me, and that's OK, too.

 

But I think you need to spend a little of your energy on examining why you have such a problem with women, specifically wives, who have forgiven their husbands who have strayed.

[mopar crazy]

I think each situation is different... I wouldn't say that the BS is always a fool to forgive...by in my mind... most men cheat again... once they taste the 'excitment' that 'rush' it's hard for them to stop...

 

It also depends on the reason to forgive... If you 'forgive' your spouse because you just can't face the thought to live alone then you're a fool...

 

If you 'forgive' because you truly feel that it is over and you can trust him again, then I guess it's okay to give it another try...

 

I also feel that, often, the BS has a lot to do with the cheating. There's always two sides... it is extremely rare that a spouse cheat when they are very happy at home...

I know it's not easy ... and I also know that it is nearly 'impossible' not to cheat, ever... I just can't believe it is feasible, on a long-term basis.

 

WTF? I know Lizzie that you are an OW so I guess this shouldn't surprise me at all that you posted this. I DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT blame myself for my WH A! And I'm sure a lot of BW don't either. I do admit my H wasn't happy in the M but either was I. Instead of talking to me about unhappy he was he turned to the OW instead. Like that bitch knew anything about a happy M. She was M twice, all short term. The only advice that whore could give to a MM or his W would be sex advice b/c she has been around the block a hundred times.

 

I know why my H cheated and yes, it was b/c of what I wasn't giving him...attention, blech! All I can say about that is if he would of been a mature adult, stopped acting like a 20ish SG by going out and getting drunk 5 or 6 times a week, started helping me raise our children and household chores I would of paid attention to him. A W can only take so much of being stepped all over. And when I finally stopped allowing him to step all over me he ran to the OW b/c God knows she practically worshipped the ground he walked on. Nope, not blaming myself at all. It's his fault he chose to be a drunk, it his fault he chose to be gone all the time (even our neighbors commented on how he was never home) and it's his fault our M was crap. He didn't like it that his doormat of a W finally woke the hell up and put a stop to it. He knew OW wouldn't be that way. Of course she wouldn't. She didn't live w/ him, share children w/ him, and had to put up w/ his immaturity all the time. She seen only the good in H. She probably thought everything I told her was a line of crap to get her to back off. I didn't lie about our M to the OW. Why would she believe me? She wasn't going to. She wanted my H so bad she couldn't think of him ever being that way.

 

I don't think a BW is a fool for trying to R her M. I guess the only time I see a BW as a fool if she continues to let her POS cheating H come back after several A. Sorry if those words hurt any BW here that are M to a serial cheater but it's how I feel. If my H ever has an A again his ***** will be gone for good. Not going down that road again and I don't think he is stupid enough to do it.

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

Is the BS foolish for taking her husband back? That depends. I think it is more foolish to presume that the best way to "fix" an infidelity problem with divorce. Many people who have never married or have children would swear up and down that they'd kick their WS out. However, when they are in the situation, the gravity of the matter sinks in. Rarely does infidelity of a spouse lead to divorce unless the WS is caught several times.

 

I don't think that BS are foolish for taking their spouses back - IF they do so with open eyes, with no delusion whatsoever of what took place. Of course, only the two people in the marriage can decide whether their marriage is worth saving.

 

However, the reality of the matter is that, more often than not, the BS will take their WS back in hopes that the affair would end. The BS goes into a deep denial of what is going on and refuses to admit that the WS loves someone else. So in this case, the BS would be the foolish person.

[whichwayisup]

It all comes down to when someone's ENOUGH button is pushed to the limit. I mean, an OW/OM can sit and wait months and months and months, which then turns into years for their MM/MW to leave their spouses, so who's more foolish? A betrayed spouse who wants to forgive her cheating spouse, keep her family together and give her best? Maybe some people take their vows to the limit and that includes forgiving a cheating spouse, once or twice...I dunno.

 

Either way, this thread is turning into something that is going to get heated.

[FireandIce]

It all comes down to when someone's ENOUGH button is pushed to the limit. I mean, an OW/OM can sit and wait months and months and months, which then turns into years for their MM/MW to leave their spouses, so who's more foolish? A betrayed spouse who wants to forgive her cheating spouse, keep her family together and give her best? Maybe some people take their vows to the limit and that includes forgiving a cheating spouse, once or twice...I dunno.

 

 

 

ITA with you! Sorry but trying to keep my marriage together and repairing the parts that are broken does NOT make me a fool.

 

A fool would be the OW who wants him so bad that when his wife kicks him out she immediately offers to pay for an apartment and every bill he has even though he's still constantly calling and visiting his wife (and yes, she knew all about it).

 

A fool is also a woman who thinks by offering him more children when he tells her how much he misses his family will get him to forget all about them ("If you miss your kids then I will give you more" Yeah, she actually said that).

 

AND a fool is a woman who thinks that cleaning his place (the one he moved into) and leaving a note saying she just did it to show him what he would be missing (like I don't clean my house...lol) would be enough for him to forget what he's now realizing he's missing (ie his wife and kids) and start playing house with her.

 

Sorry but I don't think a wife is a fool for trying to work on a marriage and keep her family together if this was a one time mistake.

[Ripples]

Like so many have already said, it all depends. If a man was good enough for a well-adjusted woman to marry in the first place, he's probably good enough to work things out with. If the marriage was going to break apart anyway, with or without the involvement of another woman, then obviously best to move on.

 

The OW is just a symptom of something that needs to be fixed within the relationship, in my opinon. I'm not saying it excuses dicking around, of course. But it does seem that its often the thing that makes the couple address their problems.

[PoshPrincess]

I don't think a BW is a fool for trying to R her M. I guess the only time I see a BW as a fool if she continues to let her POS cheating H come back after several A.

 

I agree with Mopar re the above. Plus I think it takes a very strong person to forgive and to trust again after something so destructive and disrespectful so well done Mopar, Shelley, SilkTricks and anyone else who is now on the road to recovery.

 

I also agree that a BS is not to blame for her H cheating. I do think problems within the M (from the H and W) are contributing factors to an A but by no means is there any excuse for turning to an EMA. I have been an OW AND I have had an A (well, more of a fling than an A) during my LTR and I don't blame my partner one bit for that. I should never have done it and it is my biggest regret in life. There IS no excuse for it but, yes, it does happen. As far as I am concerned, problems within a M/LTR should be addressed not avoided. Having an A is just burying your head in the sand and hoping someone else will make things better.

 

My exMMs W took him back after she found out about our A. Of course, she obviously loves him, but I know (he told me) that she had an A early on in their M which he forgave (or maybe not?) her for so maybe she thinks his A was her just desserts so to speak. Saying that, she caught him 'being a bit too familiar' shall we say with her brother's W before our A so did she do the right thing by taking him back? All I know is that despite the fact that he is not particularly happy in his M I don't think he will ever cheat again due to the massive impact it had on his family. I know he is a decent enough man not to put them through that again and so I suspect she does too.

[OpenBook]

There has been a lot of discussion on another very long thread about the BS. I obviously do not think I was a fool for forgiving my husband, but the implication has been made many times that the BS is a fool.

 

So feel free to give your opinion!

 

Actually, Silk, in your particular case your H is the more foolish (if you want to look at it that way) to take you back after you left him. If you abandoned him once when the going got rough, you could do it again.

 

But hey, we're all fools in love, aren't we? Isn't that what love is all about? Going out on that limb?

[silktricks]

Actually, Silk, in your particular case your H is the more foolish (if you want to look at it that way) to take you back after you left him. If you abandoned him once when the going got rough, you could do it again.

 

But hey, we're all fools in love, aren't we? Isn't that what love is all about? Going out on that limb?

 

Well, of course, I don't want to look at it that way, and (also of course) I don't think he was a fool. Yes, I did leave him once, as you say, when the going got rough. I left, and he seemed OK with it when we discussed it, not for another man, but for some recovery time with myself. Had he let me know that he was angry and hurt about it during our discussions, I probably wouldn't have done it. Can't say for sure, I was in a pretty bad place at the time.

 

And yes, that is what love is - going out on a limb. Unfortunately, sometime the damn thing gets sawed off behind us. The thing to remember at that point, is that we are the ones that climbed out there, and we really can't put all the blame on the person with the saw!!:lmao:

[silktricks]

Plus I think it takes a very strong person to forgive and to trust again after something so destructive and disrespectful so well done Mopar, Shelley, SilkTricks and anyone else who is now on the road to recovery.

Thank-you

 

I also agree that a BS is not to blame for her H cheating. I do think problems within the M (from the H and W) are contributing factors to an A but by no means is there any excuse for turning to an EMA. I have been an OW AND I have had an A (well, more of a fling than an A) during my LTR and I don't blame my partner one bit for that. I should never have done it and it is my biggest regret in life. There IS no excuse for it but, yes, it does happen. As far as I am concerned, problems within a M/LTR should be addressed not avoided. Having an A is just burying your head in the sand and hoping someone else will make things better.

This is so very well said, Posh. There is no excuse, but sometimes bad things do happen.

 

My exMMs W took him back after she found out about our A. Of course, she obviously loves him, but I know (he told me) that she had an A early on in their M which he forgave (or maybe not?) her for so maybe she thinks his A was her just desserts so to speak. Saying that, she caught him 'being a bit too familiar' shall we say with her brother's W before our A so did she do the right thing by taking him back? All I know is that despite the fact that he is not particularly happy in his M I don't think he will ever cheat again due to the massive impact it had on his family. I know he is a decent enough man not to put them through that again and so I suspect she does too.

 

Hopefully he will regain the happiness that he once had. If he for sure won't cheat again, and will actually work on the marriage, the odds of that growth of happiness is very high.

 

But enough about him. How are YOU doing? Are you working on your own happiness?

[BurriedAlive]

Quote from Smartgirl on the "are you better looking than W" thread:

 

I meant the for better or worse part of my vows. I at least owe my marriage the chance for recovery because it was a great relationship and marriage for the 31 years before this woman came into the picture. Because he is willing to repent and put the work in, I am willing to work on forgiving him. Getting over the pain is the single hardest thing I have ever had to do, but that would be true even if he was no longer in the picture.

I think that under the circumstances Smartgirl describes, W is absolutely no fool at all.

 

Anyway, I thought it would be interesting to look up the actual definition of "fool" here it is:

 

fool

Pronunciation: 'fül

Function: noun

1 : a person lacking in judgment or prudence

 

Well, in many cases including my case where W continues to be married to my xMM who has cheated on her for years and continued to lie to her after D-day, I would have to say that yes, she lacks judgment and is a fool. She knows she is married to a cheater but refuses to see him for what he really is and this makes her a fool. I think the key here how MM acts after D-day. If his life becomes an open book and the lies and cheating stop then W is smart to keep him around and their M is probably better for it.