katiebour Posted July 3, 2007 Posted July 3, 2007 When I first heard about "The Surrendered Wife" (actually here on LoveShack, on a joke-style post by a4a) I had no idea what it was. I looked up, and there was a LOT of negative press about how it was pushing women to be a slave/doormat. They even had women, on tape, who claimed to be following the book and who had their husbands write out a list of chores for them every day. I thought to myself "how ridiculous!" but at the same time I was wondering how much of this press was hype and how much was a reflection of the actual content of the book. So I went to the local library, inter-library-loaned it, and read it. After having read the book, I have to say it's nothing like what the media portrays it as. The main point of the book is to surrender control over your husband. He is his own man, a separate human being, who was running his own life before you came along and is still capable of doing so (if you let him.) Running your husband's life makes him into more your child than your equal. Telling him what to do, when to do it, how to do it; how demoralizing and humiliating is that? If any of you ever had someone tell you to do something (i.e. fold the laundry) and then stood over you and criticized how you did it (folding the socks- "No, don't fold them that way, they'll be all wrinkled, do it THIS way") you can imagine how patronizing that is. What the book basically is saying is to treat your husband like an adult, respect the choices he makes about his own life, listen to and respect the things he says, and cut down on belittling, sarcastic, rude remarks. Yes, I once asked my boyfriend to fold the laundry. When he rolled his socks up in a ball, I scolded him, unfolded them, refolded them "the right way" and then demanded that he do the same. I treated him like a child, confident that "I knew best" and that he could only sit and worship my perfection- that he would be delighted to be corrected by me. I never considered how demeaning it was to treat him like a child. He was folding his socks for over 20 years before I came along, and the world did not end. So what right do I have to march in and demand that he do things "my way?" The book tells women to mind their mouths. Every time you think you know "a better way," consider that your husband is a grown, intelligent adult, fully capable of fulfilling his duties and taking care of his responsibilities WITHOUT your "assistance." If he was otherwise, then why the heck did you marry him? Where did the loving, exciting, responsible, thoughtful, take-action man that you fell in love with go? The book says that when women take over, men learn to submit. They learn "it's her way or the highway" and they become resentful child-men completing lists of tasks set by the "real adult" in the family. If you stop treating your man like a child, then he will start acting like a man. If you don't do his laundry for 3 weeks, a month, he will eventually step up and start doing it himself (which, incidentally relieves you of the task.) The more control you give up, the more responsibility your man will assume, yes, he will pick up your slack. And although he might make some mistakes (maybe the socks will be wrinkled) he's only human. You make mistakes too; you are just as human. How would you feel if, every time you made a mistake, your H chimed in with a "You should have done it like THIS; let me show you how to do it." You would feel resentment and maybe a bit of anger. But how many times in a day do you chime in with a similar response? So let him make his mistakes, and he will learn from them. The book also claims that when a man is freed from his list of chores, when women stop demanding obedience and work, that a man feels more free to give. When you stop making him feel childish and resentful, his happy response will make him want to give back to you. The man who gave you flowers will come back. And also, when you are freed up from the task of running your H's life, you can spend more time on making yourself happy. Doyle points out that a stressed-out, tired woman who is not taking care of herself is more likely to pick fights or say shrewish, mean things to her H. She recommends making a list of ten things that you enjoy while you do them, and ten things that make you feel good after you do them. From this list, do at least 3 things every day. When you take care of you, you are less inclined to pick on him. "You must first take care of the plank in your own eye," etc., etc. As my b/f and I are not married, I cannot follow all the dictates of the book, especially as regards the finances. I have to take care of my own debt and responsibilities- but as regards our shared finances I am hoping I will be able to give that up to him. Men feel empowered and caring when they can provide for their families. I have been watching what I say and how I say it, trying to be supportive and to keep all controlling comments from leaving my mouth. In the one week I have been doing this, my boyfriend has made me dinner, brought me things without me ever asking, done the dishes without my nagging, and stepped up in so many surprising ways. Once I stopped demanding, demanding, demanding, he felt more free to give. I am the happy recipient of his caring. I like the respectful, loving woman that I can be- rather then the tired, in-control shrew who is never happy with how things are done or when. When I surrender the control, when I tread my b/f with love and respect; when I listen to what he has to say, when I consider it; when I support him and tell him how wonderful he is (and yes, he is VERY wonderful ) I am so much happier with myself. I think he is too. In conclusion- girls, read the book. You don't have to buy it, you can get it at the library. Give it a read, think it over for yourself, try it. If it doesn't have any effect then you can always go back to your old ways. This is a lifestyle CHOICE, not a demand. And why, Laura Doyle is asked, is there not a book entitled "The Surrendered Husband"? She replies to the effect of 1) She's not a husband so she really doesn't have advice to give on how to be a good one and 2) even if there was such a book, YOU COULD NOT MAKE HIM READ IT!!! That's the premise in a nutshell. I think it's a great book with a lot of great advice.
child_of_isis Posted July 3, 2007 Posted July 3, 2007 I think this book may be assuming that all W's stand over their H's while they fold clothes and insist that they do it their way. Geesh, who does that? Most of us don't give a damn how the socks look after they are folded. I don't think they average woman has the attitude of "my way"...who gives a damn what way it is done, as long as it is done.
Trialbyfire Posted July 4, 2007 Posted July 4, 2007 I think this type of cookie cutter style book only works with the right candidates. The woman has to be overly-controlling, the man has to be immature.
lonelybird Posted July 4, 2007 Posted July 4, 2007 Just ask God, and you can NOT change a person, that cause dysfunction PRAYER can change them
corazoncito Posted July 4, 2007 Posted July 4, 2007 I'm not going to get into the merits of the book because Katiebour has already done a very nice job of that. I've read the book and I think it makes some of good points. One of these points is that sometimes women who are being a little too insistent on their husbands doing things their way aren't always aware that they are. I know it's true for me when I get stressed out or otherwise distracted. Also, you don't have to follow every point in the books. I think it's fine to use what works for you (if anything). For instance, contra the book's advice, my guy asked me to manage our finances and is very happy that I agreed. If the title really rubs you the wrong way, try John Gray's "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus". Ok, I realize a lot of people dislike that book too. But the "surrendered wife" is completely and pretty openly derived from Mars/Venus. It just focuses on the women's sections and expands with more detail. Even her infamous example of letting your husband drive to the state line without correcting him is originally in Mars/Venus. Gray talks about how women shouldn't correct men if they get lost while driving, but should instead be supportive and show their appreciation that their husband is trying to get them where they are going (in his example they're trying to get to a party, they're not crossing the whole state).
child_of_isis Posted July 4, 2007 Posted July 4, 2007 If I were taking wrong exists and such and my passenger(or partner) knew better and didn't tell me about it, and let me drive around until lost..... I would probably think about pounding them in the head. But the example I quoted above (when the husband gets lost driving) is a little farfetched and unrealistic.
lonelybird Posted July 4, 2007 Posted July 4, 2007 Just simply obey God in everything, can make everything OKAY If I were those wifes, I would pray husband to be saved and baptised by Holy Spirit, then the husband would know from Holy Spirit "how to love his wife":love: "how to be a good husband and father":) If he disobey, Holy Spirit would rebuke him:bunny:
katiebour Posted July 4, 2007 Posted July 4, 2007 I think this type of cookie cutter style book only works with the right candidates. The woman has to be overly-controlling, the man has to be immature. I think you are right in that this book only benefits certain people- after all, if you've got a great marriage, you don't need it! If it ain't broke, don't fix it. For women like me who sometimes think that "if you want something done right, do it yourself or supervise your assistants to the point of irritation " is a way of life, this book is a good wake-up call. What I really liked about the book was that it drew my attention to the fact that I am sometimes less respectful of my significant other than I should be- I wouldn't say things to a stranger that I have said to my b/f. Familiarity breeds contempt, perhaps? Not to say that I (or any woman who reads this book) is a monster. We are simply people who are trying to take what we have and make it better by improving ourselves and our relationships with the people we love.
RIDINGTHEBULLS1 Posted July 5, 2007 Posted July 5, 2007 Well now that we are making sexandthecity references, I'll add one. The over-correcting critical type of woman tends to make herself appear better than her mate. Reminds me of the relationship Carrie had with Burger. When I watched these episodes for the second time, I realized how bit#$y Carrie really was, even if unconsciously. She naturally kept correcting his every word or way of life and I didn't like it. I'm similiar in that nature. My partner never does anything right... is that really MY problem? Well since the relationship is going to shi(#.. maybe. But what do you do when they never do anything right and need guidance and criticism? Plus, if the person is not pushed, they'll just get more lazy!
Woggle Posted July 5, 2007 Posted July 5, 2007 If he is not who want then dump him but it is not your place to change him or nag him onto what you want him to be. This book should be titled How to not be a nagging b!tch.
katiebour Posted July 5, 2007 Posted July 5, 2007 My partner never does anything right... is that really MY problem? But what do you do when they never do anything right and need guidance and criticism? Plus, if the person is not pushed, they'll just get more lazy! They never do anything right? As Ms. Doyle so interestingly asks in the book, why did you choose a partner who COMPLETELY fails to please? Either you had really bad judgement when starting to date this person, or, in fact the person you are with is a capable human being who at first impressed you with their skills and knowledge. Some people, Ms. Doyle suggests, lose sight of their partner's capabilities because they are so focused on things being done "their" way. Let me give you a few excerpts: "If you are like most women, you are already thinking about how your life will fall apart if you stop controlling your husband. Perhaps you feel you cannot refrain from teaching or correcting your husband because then the children will lack discipline, or because you will go broke, or because you firmly believe the marriage will never change. If you are thinking there is some reason you can't follow this suggestion, you are not alone. That's what we all think. I know what I'm suggesting is difficult. I know it doesn't seem fair. It didn't seem fair to me that I had to work so hard to change while my husband continued to sit around watching television, but your husband will have to make big changes too. In fact, he will have to transform in order to stay in step with you as you leave the bumpy road of not trusting him and steer onto the smoother road of having faith in him. He will have to rise to new levels to meet this remarkable occasion. He will have to listen to his own inner voice of conviction instead of relying on yours to tell him when he's not doing something right. He will need to use his own mind to figure out what's best for his family rather than reluctantly carrying out your subtle or not-so-subtle orders. He will be taking on far more responsibility than he ever has before.... Just underneath the urge to control is fear- big fear. I'd go so far as to call it terror. But what is it we're so afraid of? Many women are terrified that their husbands won't know how to perform everyday duties properly when left to their own devices. These women are convinced that their husbands are so inept that they are a perpetual threat to the whole family's well being- unless the wives step in... Some women say they are afraid to leave the children with their own father while they go out because they're "sure" he won't bother to make them a proper dinner or put them to bed on time or check to see that their homework is completed. Others doubt their husband's ability to plan an enjoyable evening out or to negotiate a good deal on a car.. I have to smile when women tell me these kinds of concerns because I remember not too long ago, I felt the same way. Now I challenge those familiar fallacies by asking 'Do you think he would let the kids starve? Do you think you'll go bankrupt buying a minivan?' As irrational as it sounds, the short answer to these questions is 'Yes.' Women feel the need to control because they fear that if they don't take matters into their own hands, their needs will go unmet. It is possible that your husband is thoughtless or inept, but until you give him your complete trust over a sustained period of time, you can't be sure... Until you stop trying to run his life, you'll never know what it's truly like to be married to your husband. I am not saying that you are the cause of your husband's shortcomings. Your husband is always completely responsible for his own actions. If he is a poor father or neglects his family, that is not his wife's fault. At the same time, if you are nagging, undermining, criticizing, or disrespecting him, you are crushing his confidence, intellect, and potential- both emotionally and financially... It seemed like John was always waiting for me to decide what we should do, then dragging his feet once I did. I might have been getting some things done my way, but now John was dependent on me. I was exhausted from doing everything and lonely because I was doing it all by myself. If your husband doesn't speak up when he gets a haircut or doesn't pay attention to the route when he's driving, it could be because he's always expecting you to pipe up. If you jump in and tell him what to do because you think he can't figure it out, you are encouraging him to cruise while you maneuver. If he hasn't already, he will lose the impetus to do things for himself because he knows that his wife-crutch is always there... One of the most difficult things about relinquishing control is that we don't always know when we're being controlling. Letting your husband know how little regard you have for his ideas is the most dangerous and subtle form of control. When you squash your husband's ideas you are telling him you don't trust him. Without trust there can be no intimacy. Therefore, one of the keys to relinquishing control is to respect your husband's thinking. Your husband may make a pronouncement that sounds silly. He's human and he deserves the space to think about things, concoct crazy schemes, and make mistakes, just as you do. We all need the freedom to muse out loud about whatever it is we're thinking. So, the first step in respecting your husband's thinking is to let him think out loud without criticizing, laughing at, dismissing, or insulting him. Instead, say with as much kindness and sincerity as you can muster, "Whatever you think" when he is telling you his ideas. For instance, if he comes up with a nutty thought that he should change jobs, and this strikes terror in your heart, you say, "Whatever you think." If he says he thinks the kids should learn how to ski, and this sounds dangerous to you, say "Whatever you think." If he says he thinks the two of you should go out to dinner, and you think you should save money and eat at home, say "Whatever you think." Even if you think what he's saying is lunacy, respond by reminding him that you respect what he thinks.... Of course, this phrase also implies that you agree with whatever he thinks, which means you're going to end up agreeing to a lot of things that you never would have before. It's not as dangerous as it sounds- all you're really doing is allowing your man to be himself. Sometimes your husband's ideas will materialize and sometimes they won't. But if you trust him- and respect his ideas rather than trying to control what actually comes to fruition, I guarantee that you will be one step closer to fostering intimacy with your husband. He may lose money. He may make you late. The kids might get bruised knees. He may make a mess, or lose his job or let the bills go so long that the water gets turned off. None of these situations is permanent, none of them is life threatening, and all of them are part of being human. They can certainly put a strain on your marriage, but they don't have to. You have the power to choose whether you fight about something for days or laugh about it for years... The problem is that when you squash your husband's ideas, you kill his spirit. When you disrespect your husband's thinking he feels rejected. You give him no choice to believe that you already know what's best and have complete veto power. You are letting him know who's in charge- you. He has that recurring thought, "Why bother?" And you are left with feeling tired from shouldering all the responsibility. But this vicious circle can be interrupted. If you respond to your husband's ideas with trust, he will feel a new level of responsibility. If he says he can fix the plumbing himself, and you say, "whatever you think," he will feel the full weight of the task on his shoulders and probably even some fear. He will think more seriously about the task before deciding whether or not he wants to take it on... "But what if he says or does something really stupid, then what do I do?" "But what if I completely disagree with him?" ":But what if I know I'm right and he's wrong?" If you're like me, you probably think that these are the situations in which you can make an exception and maintain control. Nope. Instead, they are the times when you especially need to surrender. When you find yourself desperate to steer your husband's actions, consider your choices: Either you hold your tongue and preserve harmony or you speak critically and create a chasm of resentement and resistance. Once you speak the first note of discord he will distance himself from you. Contradicting is sure to exasperate him and cause a great divide. If you are condescending (and telling your husband what to do is always condescending), you will have to endure his aloofness and sulking afterwards. If you keep quiet, keep breathing, and remind yourself that this too shall pass, the one stress you won't have is a marital problem. What a relief! When your spouse appalls you, keep in mind that you married a capable, loyal, hard-working, dependable man. When things go wrong as a result of your husband's decisions, remember that he is learning. Next time he'll probably invest more carefully or have the kids wear kneepads or hire a professional. If you don't make a big deal about his mistakes, he'll begin to take initiative in every area. Isn't that what you've always wanted? Somebody who had his own ideas and acted on them?" Katie here again- just to finish it off here, of course you don't have to accept wholeheartedly that this system will reform your husband or partner. But you can give it a trial- read the book, see what you think, try it out, and if it doesn't work, what have you lost? On the other hand, if it truly results in a better relationship, and a more loving, responsible partner, think of how much you will gain! You'll never know if you don't try.
child_of_isis Posted July 5, 2007 Posted July 5, 2007 Never does anything right? According to who? You? If so...you have the problem...not him. The only reason I can find for constant nagging, is if both work, and the female has to come home, do the cooking/cleaning/laundry, etc. while the male lays upon the recliner and does nothing. (I see this a lot in my area) But as far as doing something "right", that is a judgement call and standard that I feel no one has the right to impose on another. My partner never does anything right... is that really MY problem? Well since the relationship is going to shi(#.. maybe. But what do you do when they never do anything right and need guidance and criticism? Plus, if the person is not pushed, they'll just get more lazy!
Woggle Posted July 5, 2007 Posted July 5, 2007 My wife and I both share the cleaning and laundry and we usually only cook once a week. One week she will cook and the next I will cook but we usually go out or get takeout. It's ironic that for all my rants about women my wife and I have one of the most equal marriages you can find. There is no fighting about chores or gender roles.
child_of_isis Posted July 5, 2007 Posted July 5, 2007 I don't believe this part to be healthy. It shuts down communication. Both partners should be able to discuss things and have their input/concerns taken into consideration and then a compromised reached. Say for instance the dinner. One wants to eat out, one wants to save money. Okay then, skip the fancy resturant and go to a cheap buffet. Now both are happy. Instead, say with as much kindness and sincerity as you can muster, "Whatever you think" when he is telling you his ideas. For instance, if he comes up with a nutty thought that he should change jobs, and this strikes terror in your heart, you say, "Whatever you think." If he says he thinks the kids should learn how to ski, and this sounds dangerous to you, say "Whatever you think." If he says he thinks the two of you should go out to dinner, and you think you should save money and eat at home, say "Whatever you think."
a4a Posted July 5, 2007 Posted July 5, 2007 I don't believe this part to be healthy. It shuts down communication. Both partners should be able to discuss things and have their input/concerns taken into consideration and then a compromised reached. Say for instance the dinner. One wants to eat out, one wants to save money. Okay then, skip the fancy resturant and go to a cheap buffet. Now both are happy. Instead, say with as much kindness and sincerity as you can muster, "Whatever you think" when he is telling you his ideas. For instance, if he comes up with a nutty thought that he should change jobs, and this strikes terror in your heart, you say, "Whatever you think." If he says he thinks the kids should learn how to ski, and this sounds dangerous to you, say "Whatever you think." If he says he thinks the two of you should go out to dinner, and you think you should save money and eat at home, say "Whatever you think." I agree with your statement 100%. If I ran around saying "whatever you think" my H would leave me in two seconds..... many H's don't want to be married to a mindless woman either. My guess is that men would get bored of their "whatever you think" wives. Could you imagine living with a man that said this to you? I vote to retitle this book the "disconnected wife". I take that back. It should be titled whatever you think it should be titled. "Whatever you think" also sounds an awful lot like = I don't care. "I want to more sex" - "whatever you think dear" Who wants a partner with zero input? Keep in mind that not all people are born leaders.... and if it comes to "should we pay the mortgage or get a new boat" ----- whatever you think dear - is one of the most unrealistic replies and a direct path to a cardboard box under a bridge. (laugh at mistakes- brilliant, tell that to the kids when you cannot afford to send them to college) - very funny. I want to go spend this weeks pay at a bar - whatever you think dear.
GoodOnPaper Posted July 5, 2007 Posted July 5, 2007 The timing of the original "Surrendered Wife" essay lines up pretty well with the rise of neo-conservatism trendiness. To me, the essay takes some reasonable principles and wraps them in a "21st-century self-help psychology meets Leave it to Beaver" type package. Leaving politics aside, the roles of masculinity and femininity in male/female relationships are being scrutinized from many angles. The argument is that in general, men are becoming less masculine and women are becoming less feminine, and this is leading to poorer-quality relationships. My take on the "Surrendered Wife" angle is that by "surrendering", the wife enables the husband's masculinity to rise to the surface. A couple things don't sit right with me: 1. This seems to "blame" the wife for not only her issues but her husband's as well. 2. IMO, if this is really meant to heal the couple's emotional issues, the approach is too simplistic and co-dependent. My guess is that men would get bored of their "whatever you think" wives. Could you imagine living with a man that said this to you? Judging from the self-help forums I frequent, I think there are a lot of wives living with "whatever you think" husbands. I'm one of them more often than I'd like. The thing is, my wife "surrendering" isn't going to do a whole lot for me -- except maybe add pressure to what is already there. I have a lot of work to do myself. I prefer the language and approach in David Schnarch's Passionate Marriage on "differentiation". Basically, it is important that husband and wife be confident and functional as individuals within their marriage. Too much co-dependence gets in the way of intimacy because of each partner's fear of being rejected in one way or another. I think the core principles are consistent with much of what "Surrendered Wife" offers wives while enabling both husband and wife to be equal partners in their relationship.
Trialbyfire Posted July 5, 2007 Posted July 5, 2007 The timing of the original "Surrendered Wife" essay lines up pretty well with the rise of neo-conservatism trendiness. To me, the essay takes some reasonable principles and wraps them in a "21st-century self-help psychology meets Leave it to Beaver" type package. Leaving politics aside, the roles of masculinity and femininity in male/female relationships are being scrutinized from many angles. The argument is that in general, men are becoming less masculine and women are becoming less feminine, and this is leading to poorer-quality relationships. My take on the "Surrendered Wife" angle is that by "surrendering", the wife enables the husband's masculinity to rise to the surface. A couple things don't sit right with me: 1. This seems to "blame" the wife for not only her issues but her husband's as well. 2. IMO, if this is really meant to heal the couple's emotional issues, the approach is too simplistic and co-dependent. Judging from the self-help forums I frequent, I think there are a lot of wives living with "whatever you think" husbands. I'm one of them more often than I'd like. The thing is, my wife "surrendering" isn't going to do a whole lot for me -- except maybe add pressure to what is already there. I have a lot of work to do myself. I prefer the language and approach in David Schnarch's Passionate Marriage on "differentiation". Basically, it is important that husband and wife be confident and functional as individuals within their marriage. Too much co-dependence gets in the way of intimacy because of each partner's fear of being rejected in one way or another. I think the core principles are consistent with much of what "Surrendered Wife" offers wives while enabling both husband and wife to be equal partners in their relationship. Now this whole methodology sits far better with me. To surrender your right of opinion, negates your right as a human being.
katiebour Posted July 5, 2007 Posted July 5, 2007 I understand what everyone is saying about this book making it sound like women should act as doormats. But again, this book is starting with the premise that readers/adherents have husbands or SO's who have "tuned out" of the decision-making process entirely because of the overbearing/controlling nature of the other partner. What this is encouraging women to do is to stop talking and listen to what their husbands say, and to also trust the judgement of your husband or significant other. If you don't have the money to pay your bills, would your H really suggest dinner out at an expensive restaurant? My b/f wouldn't- in fact he is more likely to curb my tendencies to spend than to suggest it himself. Also, nothing in the book says that women can't come up with their own "I'd like to ~" situations. If a woman wants something, she is encouraged to bring it up (i.e. if you don't ask, you'll never get it.) But this is different than shooting down your H's suggestions because you don't trust him to know whether or not you can afford dinner. For all of you people in great, equal, happy relationships where there is no imbalance of power, kudos to you! THIS BOOK IS NOT FOR YOU! lol. I thought this was supposed to be a thread for people who have read the book to discuss it- but most of the people commenting haven't read it...
Cobra_X30 Posted July 5, 2007 Posted July 5, 2007 It isnt perfect for all situations but this should definitely be required reading for most women, especially in the UK. I feel so bad for those poor guys.
child_of_isis Posted July 5, 2007 Posted July 5, 2007 Bingo! But I believe these to be the minority. Out of all the couples that I know, only one W is like this. Her poor H cannot do anything right according to her....but then again, nobody can. She is critical of how everybody does everything because usually, they aren't doing it her way. I loved the neo-con quip. That was so spot on. But again, this book is starting with the premise that readers/adherents have husbands or SO's who have "tuned out" of the decision-making process entirely because of the overbearing/controlling nature of the other partner.
Trialbyfire Posted July 5, 2007 Posted July 5, 2007 I think you are right in that this book only benefits certain people- after all, if you've got a great marriage, you don't need it! If it ain't broke, don't fix it. For women like me who sometimes think that "if you want something done right, do it yourself or supervise your assistants to the point of irritation " is a way of life, this book is a good wake-up call. What I really liked about the book was that it drew my attention to the fact that I am sometimes less respectful of my significant other than I should be- I wouldn't say things to a stranger that I have said to my b/f. Familiarity breeds contempt, perhaps? Not to say that I (or any woman who reads this book) is a monster. We are simply people who are trying to take what we have and make it better by improving ourselves and our relationships with the people we love. Actually, the architecture of my previous marriage was as follows. He and I divvied up the bills and responsibilities. Each person took care of their portion so we never fought about that kind of thing. He was an intelligent and capable man who at one time, I respected and admired a lot. If anything, it was a marriage about wide open skies for both of us with the understanding that we would curb ourselves as reasonable adults. If there's one sure way to make me go ballistic, it's to cause me to feel like I have to nag, which is why a self-sufficient man continues to appeal to me. I do recall patiently waiting for him to put in the crown mouldings for years because he had claimed the job as his own. I finally had a professional come in to finish up, after the separation. Word of warning. Keep some boundaries of your own and keep your personal finances to yourself. If for any reason your marriage goes south, you will rue the day you handed over full control. Also, remember, while it's a relief to let your man take care of you, if something happens, you will be like a lost child.
Woggle Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 I don't think that women should be doormats but many women think that unless they are making their husbands come home to a war with nothing but arguments and screaming they are being a doormat. Too many women fight when there is no reason to be fighting. It is very much possible to have a loving and peaceful marriage without a woman losing her identity or becoming a doormat but most women don't see things that way.
Kislette Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 I have a huge problem with telling women they should surrender all the financial responsibilities to the husband. I take reports of abuse and neglect of the elderly for a living and I get several calls involving elderly widowed women who have obviously never handled their own finances. Some of them end up in a position where they don't know how to manage their money properly and now don't even have any money to buy food. Some of them end up being taken advantage of by family members, friends, or strangers who take all their money. Some of them have a lot of money but don't even know the name of the bank their husband was keeping it in. I'm sure many women in this situation luck out and have a friend or family member they can trust to help them out with their finances, but what sane person would want to have to rely on luck to keep their lives from being ruined like that?
LittleLady Posted July 7, 2007 Posted July 7, 2007 Surrender myself? Do you mean my BODY, MIND and SOUL to some MAN? The only thing I will ever surrender to some good-for-nothing pos man is my foot and it will be wedged so far up their ass. Men are incapable of taking an ounce of criticism or responsibility for their actions. It's no wonder "surrendering" keeps a relationship intact. Women are ALWAYS the ones who need to change in a relationship... what a bunch of bs and they wonder why we turn lesbian. So women need to mostly shut up in a relationship? (Ultimately surrendering my mind) In how many years will the next conversation be then? Men only eat, sleep and fuc8~!
Woggle Posted July 7, 2007 Posted July 7, 2007 Surrender myself? Do you mean my BODY, MIND and SOUL to some MAN? The only thing I will ever surrender to some good-for-nothing pos man is my foot and it will be wedged so far up their ass. Men are incapable of taking an ounce of criticism or responsibility for their actions. It's no wonder "surrendering" keeps a relationship intact. Women are ALWAYS the ones who need to change in a relationship... what a bunch of bs and they wonder why we turn lesbian. So women need to mostly shut up in a relationship? (Ultimately surrendering my mind) In how many years will the next conversation be then? Men only eat, sleep and fuc8~! The reason why I sometimes have sympathy for the muslim world.
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