Kathleen2260 Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 How long after a betrayal does one normally let their guard down and stop being so suspicious at every little thing? My SO had sort of a failed EA with a married ex. He spent a lot of time lying to me (she's just a friend why do you want me to stop talking to my friends?) and hiding their communication from me. this was over two years ago and I thought I had moved on and was over it but little things just keep popping up. He has now owned up to his behavior and I feel that it shouldn't happen again. In his defense he knew the lying and hiding was wrong but honestly I think he didn't realize he was almost having an EA with her. Anyhow, she is out of the picture (no contact in over two years) and the ex has gone on to wreck someone else's marriage (she is still married but left her husband and moved in with a married man who kicked out his wife and 8 month old daughter to be with her) Classy girl she is. Anyhow, as you can tell there is still a little bit of anger at her and at my SO. Although we've been getting along better than we ever have and are very close now. The problem is that he used to work with another ex of his. She is married (2nd marriage) and has a kid. I used to have no problem with her. she is nice enough although I've only seen her about 6 times in all the time we've been dating. she's really a non entity to me as I probably wouldnt' recognize her if I saw her in public somewhere. If that makes sense. Well in the last year or so my SO has told me that this ex (she is an ex who he was engaged to but she cheated on him and left him and this was over ten years ago). well in the last year my SO has told me that this ex (I'll call her Jan) thinks I hate her. I have no reason to dislike her, I don't even know her. I don't EVER see her and the few times I have seen her (with my SO) I've never been rude. I told my SO to tell her I said hello (as a friendly gesture). Well one incident occured where we saw her somewhere and she said "hi guys" to the two of us and I didn't know who she was and I had other things on my mind and kept walking and MY SO talked to her and I was just like who was that after she left. When she was leaving she said to her husband (see! She hates me, I was right) because I didn't say hi to her. I felt bad that she was so upset so I wrote her a short letter saying I was sorry but just didnt recognize her and that I had no problem with her, it was just that I didnt' know her and she's welcome to stop over at our house, or call or if she wants we can get together sometime. Well I never heard back from her after she got that letter and she never said anything to my SO. The thing that is bothering me is the other night I had to pick up my SO from his 2nd job as his truck is in the shop. I guess about ten minutes before I showed up (at 10pm) his ex, Jan had stopped at his work to pick up some milk (he works on a farm). I give him credit because he did tell me this. He also said that she invited us to a July 4th party at her house. He told her we probably wouldn't go. I was upset that he told her that without even asking me because #1 maybe I wanted to go to the party #2 if HE didnt want to go he should have told her that #3 it does make it seem that I dont like her and thats the reason we won't attend the party #4 I'm wondering if he has something to hide. I'm probably being paranoid but it seems odd to me that his ex, a married woman with a young child would stop at his workplace at 10pm at night (she lives down the road) to pick up milk. I mean the owner of the farm (who sells the milk) is never there that late and the only people who are there are my SO and his father. So she specifically came at a time my SO would have been alone. Also he normally gets home from work around 10:30pm every night (he has to work till whenever they are done) and that night he was done by 10pm. So I'm thinking that maybe he actually gets done by 10pm every night and maybe does something else the extra half hour before he comes home (maybe sees her?) I know I am being paranoid and I was starting to totally trust him again but something just seems off about the situation. I mean why would all of a sudden his ex (who I dont' even see at all) think that I hate her when in reality I don't even think anything about her at all. I mean I would hate someone (like his other ex) if they did something to me but I dont even talk to this ex or have anything to do wtih her and its not like she is wanting to hang out and I"m being rude to her or ignoring her. Is something off about this situation or am I just being suspicious because of the past?
directx Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 Maybe I over simplify but my rule of life is: If someone screws you over once, that person should be marked in your head as always capable of doing it again. Give every new person you meet the benefit of the doubt.
Sheba Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 I don't blame you for being paranoid, but perhaps this will help: when my kids were little, I often found myself running out late at night for that most basic household need - milk. Life is busy when your kids are young - alot gets done after they are in bed, when you finally have time. And milk is very necessary for the morning. It could be that she just goes to where your husband works because it is the closest place, couldn't it? Why don't you call her and tell her that you and your husband ARE able to come to her party? Go so that this "you don't like her" issue is neutralized. Go and watch for anything unusual between them. Or, go and have fun. Both, perhaps.
Tomcat33 Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 Maybe I over simplify but my rule of life is: If someone screws you over once, that person should be marked in your head as always capable of doing it again. Give every new person you meet the benefit of the doubt. I couldn't agree more!!! I'm afraid that after an A the cheater creates the type of atmosphere for him/herself to always be mistrusted, and the BS will always have this doubt with them no matter how much they choose to overcome the nagging voices....When a cheater cheats they create a lifesentence. It think it stays with you forever
jmargel Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 Kathleen, you had major trouble with him and an ex and still trying to get over that, yet you tell him that you want to goto a party with him and another ex of his? I mean, come on. Why are you trying to tempt fate again? Trying to be nice to her and be a buddy is not going to stop them from having an affair if they so choose to. You two need serious marriage counseling and trust me I am in the same position as you with my wife. We'll be married three years in August and the first year of the marriage (two years ago) she was doing the same thing with an ex. Do I trust her 100%? No. Will I ever? I don't know. It's gotten better but I think you will always have that doubt, that nagging instinct that something might be up. I still have her under a microscope, and though the one poster here said it's a life sentance for them, it is also for the one who has been cheated on. What bothers me the most about this, is that it has not allowed me to truly, deeply love her unconditionally. I still feel resentment, disgust over what she's done and I find that I am much more aware of the things she says or acts and sometimes look for things that are not there. When she did what she did, it was like an emotional murder. She killed alot of the reasons why I fell in love with her. Part of me still feels like she hasn't been punished enough yet, so whenever I catch her in a simple white lie or something like that it kinda reopens some of those wounds. I resolved myself to the fact that I can't and don't want to control her. I have told her many times to leave if her intentions are to drag me through the mud or to make me live in an unsecure marriage. This new ex, stay away from. Don't tempt him or the situation by allowing yourself and him to get closer to her. You can only control yourself and unfortunetly you don't have complete control over the situation. The other half of this situation is upto him. It just depends on how much you want to take and how long you want to ride this roller coaster. What you are going through it not a normal marriage and is not good for you. You need to start making yourself happy and start thinking what are you getting out of this marriage?
IfWishesWereHorses Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 What bothers me the most about this, is that it has not allowed me to truly, deeply love her unconditionally. I still feel resentment, disgust over what she's done and I find that I am much more aware of the things she says or acts and sometimes look for things that are not there. JMargel, You just hit the nail on the head. After the dust from the fall out settles and the pain and the anger start to fade you realize then that this person has taken away your ability to EVER have the same unadultrated, unconditional, undying love for them. That was your gift to them and they tossed it away. That to me is the saddest part of the aftermath of an affair. I don't believe that you ever have that peace of mind that maybe you did before you realized what they were capable of. I think it might get easier, or maybe its that you are able to acheive an awareness that doesn't take as much effort as it used to, but you will always question as long as you care enough to, and you will never have the same type of love and loyalty toward them that you did before.
FireandIce Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 What bothers me the most about this, is that it has not allowed me to truly, deeply love her unconditionally. I still feel resentment, disgust over what she's done and I find that I am much more aware of the things she says or acts and sometimes look for things that are not there. JMargel, You just hit the nail on the head. After the dust from the fall out settles and the pain and the anger start to fade you realize then that this person has taken away your ability to EVER have the same unadultrated, unconditional, undying love for them. That was your gift to them and they tossed it away. That to me is the saddest part of the aftermath of an affair. I don't believe that you ever have that peace of mind that maybe you did before you realized what they were capable of. I think it might get easier, or maybe its that you are able to acheive an awareness that doesn't take as much effort as it used to, but you will always question as long as you care enough to, and you will never have the same type of love and loyalty toward them that you did before. That is so sad but I think it's very true. After an affair I think you lose that "safe" feeling you once had with your spouse. Not safe in the sense of being protected from bad guys. I mean safe as in your relationship is an open book and you trust that person more than anyone. After I found out about my husbands affair (over 4 months ago) that safe feeling vanished. I know it's still early on in our process but I don't know if that feeling will ever return. I now know what he's capable of and although I love him deeply, it will always be in the back of my mind. As for the OP, trust me, trying to be friends with someone that you might be suspicious of will NOT stop them from going after your husband if that's what they want. The whore my husband had an affair with was dating one of his friends and we invited them over to our house because I knew she didn't have many friends. I was very nice to her and she kissed my butt the whole night. I found out afterwards that she had been after my husband for over two years. Everything she said and did while in my house was just another way to show him how wonderful and sweet she was. Thankfully he wised up and realized that the grass is not always greener on the other side.
silktricks Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 After an affair I think you lose that "safe" feeling you once had with your spouse. Not safe in the sense of being protected from bad guys. I mean safe as in your relationship is an open book and you trust that person more than anyone. After I found out about my husbands affair (over 4 months ago) that safe feeling vanished. I know it's still early on in our process but I don't know if that feeling will ever return. I now know what he's capable of and although I love him deeply, it will always be in the back of my mind. Obviously everybody is different (imagine that!! ) but the "safe" feeling really can come back. It's been three years for me, and the first 1+ was horrible, but after 2+ I was almost completely OK. Now at 3, I feel fine, and completely safe in our relationship. 4 months is nothing in the span of recovery time, so keep giving it time, and believe that the longer time you have with no "danger signals" popping up, the greater the feeling of safety, until finally it's all back, and you didn't even see the change coming because it was slow. Then one day you realize that the old feeling of complete trust is back. That's a great day!
PandorasBox Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 I guess it can be different for different people. I have a friend whse husband cheated on her about 8 years ago and she still struggles with it to this day. I don't think she lets on to much to him about it, but most of the time when I talk with her she still mentions it. I think its sad, but at the same time, she chose to stay with him, but yet always has the lingering doubt. My ex husband cheated on me, and I just couldn't stay for that very reason, always wondering if he'd do it again. I couldn't live like that, but thats just me.
silktricks Posted June 16, 2007 Posted June 16, 2007 I guess it can be different for different people. Some too is the man is question. How much they are willing to show their repentence. What they do to prove their commitment/recommitment, etc. It's not just that you forgive because they say they're sorry, and then it's never discussed again. That sure wouldn't work!!
IfWishesWereHorses Posted June 16, 2007 Posted June 16, 2007 It is exactly about the man/WS in question. And your right, that could never work. Some too is the man is question. How much they are willing to show their repentence. What they do to prove their commitment/recommitment, etc. It's not just that you forgive because they say they're sorry, and then it's never discussed again. That sure wouldn't work!!
quiet1one1 Posted June 18, 2007 Posted June 18, 2007 Good discussions going back and forth! Silktricks it's good to hear some positive on this. I only recently found out for sure my W had an A (that stopped a year ago) but I'd suspected it for awhile. We are still feeling our way through whether we're both committed enough to try and save the M. I don't want to give up but at this point trust is a big issue. Will I always wonder? Will I ever be able to let it go? I really don't know. I think a lot depends on what she shows to me. I want her to ask for forgiveness, I want her to show me every day that I am the only one and that she's committed to me/us. How? She has to figure that out. She won't do that now. She is still struggling big-time with the guilt and wonder over what she did and why. It's eating her up inside and she believes that before she can commit to trying to repair our M she must repair herself. Add to this the fact that I did some low things invading her privacy to discover the truth and once I was sure, I said some equally rotten things to her. Those words echo in her ears and run counter to what I'm saying now; that I love her and want to give things a chance. Sure what she did was "worse" but the fact remains that after 25+ years we're at rock bottom. She soon will be leaving the house for 4 months or so. She feels she needs space and time away to work on what she wants and if it's me and the life she has. I guess I need this time too - am I wanting to stay M cause it's the only thing I've known for 25 of my 45 years? Maybe. Will another woman come along and change my mind? Will my W come running back? Is she leaving to continue her playing around? Maybe. So many questions... All I really know is that I'm miserable. I'm tired of being down. This bites.
jmargel Posted June 18, 2007 Posted June 18, 2007 I just totally disagree with the concept of wanting to figure out whether to stay married or not by seperating. Alot of the time affairs start with bad/mis-comunication. It builds up over time and the foundation of the marriage starts to crack. When it crumbles that's when the affairs happen. What you want to do is start learning HOW to communicate better with each other to determine whether or not to stay in the marriage. Not by distancing yourself and causing the communication to get worse. Just because you 'miss' each other while seperated is not going to solve your issues. The only way to resolve these issues between yourselfs and within' yourselves is to find a good marriage counselor. You might not be realizing this but by seperating you are really giving up on a major part of your marriage.
silktricks Posted June 18, 2007 Posted June 18, 2007 I totally agree with jmargel. Separation is not the answer. Emotional (and physical) distance is what creates affairs - it doesn't resolve them. Get counseling, not space.
quiet1one1 Posted June 18, 2007 Posted June 18, 2007 jmargel and silktricks I cannot agree with you more however it takes two. All I can say is that for the last few years my wife has been going through a lot of life, body, and chemical changes. She's "mid-40s, kids are leaving the nest, is in peri-menopause, she's looking and feeling older, etc. She is not seeing things clearly right now and is admittedly very, very confused. Since she is "reluctant" (kind word) to hear and accept what may be happening to her, I cannot rock the boat. I am simply along for the ride. I've done a ton of research on this and one thing I know is that I cannot force her to seek help nor can I even mention the topic - she will not allow anyone to label what she's feeling and like most, she's looking to blame the one person who's closest and has always been there for her. I have always showered her with attention and made sure she knew how awesome she is but I truly believe that her A was mostly her looking for personal validation. She got involved with a much younger man who showed her that attention and in my opinion preyed on her. She "fell in love" (or that euphoria she thought was love) and he ran. Yes she should have chosen not to but...she did. Now she's left in a mess and I get the spoils. She feels she must have time away to "grieve" about how her actions have caused her life to fall apart right in front of her eyes and why she made the choices she did. In her opinion, that search needs to be done away from me and her home. We both know the odds of the M survivng if she moves out are almost zero as our MC has expressed it several times. Thanks for your advice and support!
quiet1one1 Posted June 18, 2007 Posted June 18, 2007 I just totally disagree with the concept of wanting to figure out whether to stay married or not by seperating. In her mind, she's leaving to find herself and resolve all the confusion she has personally. Then she can decide whether she wants to "commit to our relationship". She feels she needs to get herself together before she can even decide whether she wants try and repair our R. I have 28 years invested with this W and I care about her and my family dearly. We still do a lot of things together and have so much fun. I have to believe there's something there. I said I would fight to the end. What's the "end"? I'm not sure I know.
Lynna Posted June 18, 2007 Posted June 18, 2007 Quietone, I hope it all works out for you. My H and I have been separated for several months starting one month after I found out about the A. We were separated because he moved out of state for a new job and I had to remain here until summer for mine. It has not been easy for me, but that is because we have not been able to get together much, and it is hard to have emotionally charged conversations over the phone. But we will be back together again shortly. I do know we are both looking forward to being back together again. I think the separation did help us both realize how much we still want to be with each other. I am glad to hear you are still doing things together and having fun, I hope that continues! Best of luck to you!
jmargel Posted June 18, 2007 Posted June 18, 2007 In her mind, she's leaving to find herself and resolve all the confusion she has personally. Then she can decide whether she wants to "commit to our relationship". She feels she needs to get herself together before she can even decide whether she wants try and repair our R. I have 28 years invested with this W and I care about her and my family dearly. We still do a lot of things together and have so much fun. I have to believe there's something there. I said I would fight to the end. What's the "end"? I'm not sure I know. 'The End' is different for everyone. For me it would be that I was not getting anything out of the marriage while continuinly trying to put into it. At some point you have to think to yourself 'What are YOU getting out of this marriage?'. Leaving is not going to resolve her confusion. You think maybe it's a 'out of sight, out of mind' solution to her? Are you sure this affair is over, or that another has not started with someone else? Space itself will not resolve her demons that she speaks of, IMO counseling is the way to go for her. All I can say is that for the last few years my wife has been going through a lot of life, body, and chemical changes. She's "mid-40s, kids are leaving the nest, is in peri-menopause, she's looking and feeling older, etc. She is not seeing things clearly right now and is admittedly very, very confused. IMO sounds like she has been slapping a label onto what she did to you and using it as an excuse. She's good at this and has you pretty well convinced. It might be easier for you to handle as well by putting this reasoning behind it so that you can feel safe in knowing this won't happen again, because she will have 'grown out' or 'past' this stage she's in. However I think there's more to it and what she's trying to do is offset her guilty conscious and rationalize her behavior. No doubt about what she did was selfish, immature and downright disrespectful. IMO she needs to pull herself out of this pity ditch and truly own up to all of this, not run away. However you are enabling this, tolerating it. IMO if I was you I would be with the attitude that if you want to go, then go but you refuse to be dragged through the mud and be treated like this anymore. Make her face the consequences, it seems like she's still pulling all the strings here.
Melissa277 Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 What bothers me the most about this, is that it has not allowed me to truly, deeply love her unconditionally. I still feel resentment, disgust over what she's done and I find that I am much more aware of the things she says or acts and sometimes look for things that are not there. JMargel, You just hit the nail on the head. After the dust from the fall out settles and the pain and the anger start to fade you realize then that this person has taken away your ability to EVER have the same unadultrated, unconditional, undying love for them. That was your gift to them and they tossed it away. That to me is the saddest part of the aftermath of an affair. I don't believe that you ever have that peace of mind that maybe you did before you realized what they were capable of. I think it might get easier, or maybe its that you are able to acheive an awareness that doesn't take as much effort as it used to, but you will always question as long as you care enough to, and you will never have the same type of love and loyalty toward them that you did before. OMG, this whole post made me cry. I feel EXACTLY the same way and have been unable to actually describe how I feel to WH. Now, I know. I feel resentment and disgust over what he's done. I turn every single word that comes out of his mouth around to start a fight. If he doesn't hold my hand or put his arm around me, I accuse him of not loving me. He has "tossed away" my ability to love him unconditionally and I know I will never again love him the way I did before he caused all this hurt and pain.
quiet1one1 Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Sorry in advance if I messed-up doing the multiple quotes! At some point you have to think to yourself 'What are YOU getting out of this marriage?'...counseling is the way to go for her. I'm getting nothing except an ulcer and a 30 lb wight loss (which I needed anyway ). She is in weekly IC and we are in MC every other week. Per my Ws wishes, the A topic is off-limits at MC. Our MC doesn't even know about it. She's good at this and has you pretty well convinced. You're absolutely right. She is, and she does. IMO she needs to pull herself out of this pity ditch and truly own up to all of this, not run away. Right again! However you are enabling this, tolerating it. IMO if I was you I would be with the attitude that if you want to go, then go but you refuse to be dragged through the mud and be treated like this anymore. Make her face the consequences, it seems like she's still pulling all the strings here. Yes I am tolerating it and she is pulling all the strings. I know that. I cannot begin to tell you how much I needed to hear/read what you wrote.
quiet1one1 Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Kathleen2260, sorry for pushing this thread off-topic. I just realized I probably hijacked it. Sorry all!
Lynna Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 we are in MC every other week. Per my Ws wishes, the A topic is off-limits at MC. Our MC doesn't even know about it. You can't talk about the affair in MC????? Isn't that the point???? You said earlier that she is still struggling big-time with what she did and why - well, if you can't talk about it, how exactly is she planning to figure that out???? This is just incredible to me. Her IC and your joint MC cannot do much good if the counselor does not have all the details to work with. I think that is completely selfish of her not to allow that to be talked about. To me it sounds like she is NOT completely committed to working on your marriage. You did what you had to do to find out what was going on in your marriage. You had a right to do that (as you reminded me in another thread!). Yes, what you said may have been horrible, but as you pointed out, words said in heat are much less painful than an A. "Actions speak louder than words." You have apologized for what you said, has she apologized for what she did? Quietone, I am sorry that she is putting you in this situation. Maybe it is good that she move out for awhile. It sounds like she is really messed up. I wish you all the best and hope that for her sake and yours she is able to get her head back on straight.
quiet1one1 Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 To me it sounds like she is NOT completely committed to working on your marriage. She isn't and she readily admits that. She is struggling to come to terms with what she did, why, who she is, what she wants to be, etc. etc. She says she needs time to resolve her issues before she can look at our relationship and see what she needs and wants out of a partner - if anything. She told me last night that she knows she does not need me (or any man) in her life but during the time apart that she hopes to find that she wants me in her life. She wants me to take the time too to find out what I want (cause I sure as h*ll don't know either right now). Do I feel the same way about her? No, not right now. I know I'm outta my mind for allowing this but after 28 years I have too much invested to just toss her away. While I don't want it, I do think the time apart will push us one way or the other. Unfortunately, it will probably be further apart.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 Q1O1, I don't know how I would feel about that. Atleast she is being honest about not knowing instead of pretending with you until she makes up her mind. I think I remember you saying that she needs 4 months (forgive me if I have you confused with someone else). Why 4 months? I just can't understand that if you are married to someone for 28 years why you would need 4 months to FIND yourself. What do you plan to do for 4 months? Are you sitting around waiting for her, going to counseling? Do you think that its possible that in 4 months you might realize that she wasn't worth the trouble and do you think that maybe she is hoping that you will? I just don't really understand the mindset.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 Sorry, I just saw this... The affair topic is off limits at MC yet you are in MC by her wishes????? Explain to me how you can ever get that white elephant out of the room. I also attended MC where the affair topic was off limits and actually sat through one or two sessions after I had started the filing for a D which I hadn't mentioned to anyone including my H. I've got my own thread going on this kind of issue but I can't imagine how someone can believe that the A should be swept under the rug to "protect" the fragile ego and feelings of the cheater. Will you continue MC when you are separated, if so I think I would drop a bomb at the next session. MC is to get to the bottom of things, it was a joke for us because my H didn't participate, just said he was happy and things were fine with him, and don't mention my lies or deceit, just hold all that inside you because YOU deserve to bare the burden of MY mistakes and I deserve not to have to face them. Sorry for the rant, I just don't understand the mind of a cheater.
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