soulseeker Posted June 14, 2007 Posted June 14, 2007 McFadden, unfortunately, you are the "adult" in this situation and you need to act like one. This KID probably shouldn’t be having sex at all yet, let alone with someone so much older. Yes, in ten years the age difference would not matter, but it's NOT ten years from now. Please take on the responsibility of making the right decision here. DO NOT mess with this kid. If you seriously have fantasies about having sex with inappropriately young kids, then yes, you do need help. This isn’t society imposing stigmas on your actions; this is a case of a kids mind not being able to mentally cope with what you are talking about doing to him. Be an adult, don’t fu@k with him. This is seriously one of the most irresponsible, inappropriate, idiotic, and selfish things you could do.
Author McFadden Posted June 15, 2007 Author Posted June 15, 2007 I am just in disbelief that people are talking about getting law enforcement to track me down over an internet forum. I hope that was a joke, because I haven't done anything so theres no way to prove anything against me. This is kid is the one who pursues me and I am on here asking primarily about how to get OUT of this situation without hurting his feelings, and I get flamed. And already in real life I am in trouble, because he has sent poems to me unsolicited. Just shows how easily a witch hunt can get started in this country. For the record I'm probably going to meet him and explain the illegality of the situation.
Krytellan Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 You playing the victim here just doesn't work. I have an idea... tell his parents. Problem solved, and you have no illegal "temptations" or "fantasies" to worry about.
Author McFadden Posted June 15, 2007 Author Posted June 15, 2007 Um? I'm not playing the victim, I'm just pointing out that people shouldn't be talking about tracking me down and getting me arrested. That isn't even funny, its true that some kid can point a finger at an adult and ruin their entire career on allegations when nothing has happened. According to most males I have talked to about this, a lot of them would not be scarred by this kind of thing "as long as she was hot." Just shows how men are all horny b@stards regardless of the age. I kind of have to laugh at the idea of any female "preying" on a male.
Krytellan Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 Um? I'm not playing the victim, I'm just pointing out that people shouldn't be talking about tracking me down and getting me arrested. That isn't even funny, its true that some kid can point a finger at an adult and ruin their entire career on allegations when nothing has happened. According to most males I have talked to about this, a lot of them would not be scarred by this kind of thing "as long as she was hot." Just shows how men are all horny b@stards regardless of the age. I kind of have to laugh at the idea of any female "preying" on a male. ... and this is why people are acting the way they are to you. You're coming off as very... creepy.
Krytellan Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 According to most males I have talked to about this, a lot of them would not be scarred by this kind of thing "as long as she was hot." Just shows how men are all horny b@stards regardless of the age. I kind of have to laugh at the idea of any female "preying" on a male. And would you still shrug it off if your son was the 14 yr old?
Trialbyfire Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 According to most males I have talked to about this, a lot of them would not be scarred by this kind of thing "as long as she was hot." Just shows how men are all horny b@stards regardless of the age. I kind of have to laugh at the idea of any female "preying" on a male. No doubt young males can be hormonal but you fail to realize that they also have feelings. Taking advantage of a crushing, impressionable 14 year-old boy for your own sick fantasies is completely irresponsible behaviour. Get some professional help for your pedophiliac tendencies.
ls3360 Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 This is kid is the one who pursues me and I am on here asking primarily about how to get OUT of this situation without hurting his feelings, and I get flamed. And already in real life I am in trouble, because he has sent poems to me unsolicited. Just shows how easily a witch hunt can get started in this country. For the record I'm probably going to meet him and explain the illegality of the situation. I'd suggest that you not meet him to convince him of this. I'd stay away from him. He already seems to not take "No" for an answer. If you ignore my suggestion and do meet him, you need to do it in a public place. But I really suggest that you not meet with him. I also wouldn't worry too much about hurting his feelings. Tell it to him straight. Hopefully you can honestly tell him that you're not interested in him in addition to pointing out that it's illegal. Mentioning one without the other is too weak and won't turn him away. And hopefully you'll follow through by avoiding contact with him and asking him to stop pursuing you. Please don't worry too much about hurting his feelings. If he really tends to not take "No" for an answer, it probably will have to hurt. As I said, just say it and act it straight and put an end to it quickly. Do not equivocate in any way. The suggestion someone made about talking to his parents is something I would not have thought of, but as I think about it now, it sounds like a good approach that is likely to get the right results. Consider having an adult conversation with them about their child. Finally... please work out whatever made you have those "sick thoughts" you mentioned. They aren't normal.
Citizen Erased Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 The stupidest thing you could EVER do is to go out with this kid. For all you know, you could let him down, he goes home and tells his parents that you had sex with him. Jail is not fun for child rapists, even if you may be innocent. Fact is this world is screwed up and people will do anything when they have been humiliated, rejected etc. You are risking the rest of your life when all you need to do is pick up the phone and either call his parents or just tell him no. He is only a child, you are the adult and you need to let him know where the boundary is. Do NOT go on this little "date" to tell him, do it over the phone and do it asap.
crazy_grl Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 I don't know, I've been having some sick thoughts go through my head like I'm not getting any younger and this may be the last time I can get my hands on one of these. I probably wouldn't do anything, but I think its a fantasy that most people have. This is kid is the one who pursues me and I am on here asking primarily about how to get OUT of this situation without hurting his feelings, and I get flamed. And already in real life I am in trouble, because he has sent poems to me unsolicited. Just shows how easily a witch hunt can get started in this country. For the record I'm probably going to meet him and explain the illegality of the situation. Quite contradictory statements. You're right though, people do start to get up in arms when they hear someone talking about their pedophiliac fantasies, and rightfully so. Do not meet with this kid even to turn him down. The last thing you need is to cave in like you did when you agreed to the date. Explain to him that you're not interested, not even in going on one date. It's inappropriate, and having a relationship with him is illegal.
Author McFadden Posted June 15, 2007 Author Posted June 15, 2007 I don't think its contradictory. One was an "I have fantasies which I wouldn't act on about" statement and the other one was an "I'm going to statement." I fantasize about a lot of things. I fantasize about killing professors, employers and other people. I fantasize about running people over when they take too long to run the street. I fantasize about a lot of things. The first person who has never thought about doing something innapropriate can start judging me. I've already told the kid I'm not having a sexual relationship with him in this state for the next year and 7 months.
Trialbyfire Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 I've already told the kid I'm not having a sexual relationship with him in this state for the next year and 7 months. Do you seriously read your comments before you post? Apparently you want this boy and are only biding your time, giving lipservice to legalities. This isn't about fantasizing alone. It's about consciously setting out a plan to act on something that is neither smart or proof that you're properly wired upstairs. It's like setting up a plan to euthanize someone who you don't like. You're also fixated with your ex and can't let go after how long now? Get some professional help for your own good.
Lizzie60 Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 what you're saying.. and you are still very young... and NO you are NOT a pedophile... Things here easily get out of proportion. Yes, meet him and explain to him that it's illegal...blablabla...best way to handle this situation... face to face and straightforward. Good luck! I have heard from many guys (at least 7 or 8) - (I don't know if it's all true ..but) that they had their first sexual encounter when they were about 13-15 and it was with a much older woman... some (quite a few actually) said it was their best friend's mother.... sick, I know but it's not that uncommon.
Seen_It_All Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 I've already told the kid I'm not having a sexual relationship with him in this state for the next year and 7 months.What is WRONG with you??? Telling some hormonal teenage boy that for the next year and 7 months you can't touch him? Why are you even TALKING sex with a young boy like this? You sound like some kind of pervert predator. And YES, I can point fingers because the mere THOUGHT of playing with young boys - at ANY age I've ever been at - is utterly REPULSIVE. So is running people down in the streets and some of the other disturbing 'fantasies' you claim have run through your head. Are you SO desperate for attention that some horny little 14 year old boy can actually turn your head?
electric_sheep Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 I think the media frenzy has turned all of you into hysterical zombies, incapable of any nuanced or subtle thoughts of your own. The current hysteria over "child predators" is unmatched except perhaps by the current hysteria over terrorism (a hysteria that has caused our civil liberties to be eroded, caused the degradation of America's image around the world, led us to spend billions on an illegal war that has made us less safe in an ineffective and ludicrious attempt to bring democracy to the middle east). BTW, the "child predator" hysteria seems to be driven completely by a sensational media and conservative prudes (who would like to outlaw ALL sex of any kind, if they could). They seem to be in cahoots on this one: http://www.boingboing.net/2007/06/13/sexual_predators_onl.html Unfortunately, just like the f*cking neocons attempted to shut down all conversation about the sanity of going to war, the self-righteous do the same thing with regards to relationships with someone below the age of consent. And from reading over this thread, it seems the mere admission of even having the slightest curiosity apparently is enough to warrent threats of "tracking you down". What the f*ck is this, George Orwell's 1984? Why don't you just come down off your self-righteous high horses and get over it. What is so magical, I ask you, about the arbitrarily designated age of consent? An age that varies from country to country, and even from state to state I might add. Even more ridiculous, the age of consent for a married couple (no matter what the age gap) differs from that of an unmarried couple in many states. I point out the arbitrary nature of this for a reason. Does it make any sense to have such black and white, such vehement and passionate feelings about something, which is to a certain degree... arbitrary? I'm certainly not advocated unmitigated and rampant teen sex (though I'm sure someone is somewhere), but the extreme and absolutist mentality of society in regards to this is, in my opinion, pathological. I know we all like to hold onto to our cherished truisms, and paranoia and hysteria give life focus, but I can assure you no "magic switch" got flicked in my brain which suddenly made me emotionally capable of "understanding" sex the day I turned 18 (BTW, before I forget, Dr. Drew is an idiot). Further, this whole idea of "childhood innocense" if a f*cking myth propogated by misguided adults. I was jerking off to girly magazines and taking the 5 finger discount weekly at the local record store when I was 15. How's that for innocense? Even the definition of childhood in our society seems to be getting extended ad nauseum, till now we have 30 yo's living in their mothers basement. In previous era's, and even in other parts of the world today, people were often married and quite accomplished by the age of 18. Evariste Galois had solved one of mathematics most troubling problems before turning 16. The Nazi like efficiency with which you bring down your condemnation amounts to nothing less that cultural and ideological imperialism. I'd posit that the ethical high ground here is not so clear cut and unwavering as you'd like to think. Admittedly saying "I'd like to get me one of those" was not the most tactful thing to say, and I think it betrays motivations that might not be the purest, but you can't clump every situation into one broad category. People mature and develop at different rates and ages, and I think it's entirely possible that somewhere at some time one could find a healthy example of such a relationship. That in fact brings me to my punch line, which comes from my own life. I dated an 18 yo girl when I was barely 15, which isn't too far removed from a 14 yo dating a 19 yo. I found it to be a very satisfying relationship on all levels, and there was not the power inequality which all you zombies automatically assume exists in such relationships. If anything, I dare say I was the one in power.
electric_sheep Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 At least find a 16 yo- two years makes all the difference in the eyes of the law. Depends on the country.
soulseeker Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 Hey ES, before you go labeling people, did you even read what McFadden wrote? she said she was having "sick thoughts," something like she didn't know when she'd have another chance to get her hands on "one of these," and that she has to "laugh at the idea of any female "preying" on a male." That last statement is pure ignorance, and the previous two are worth a caution. The fact is, the responsibility here lies with the adult in the situation. And too bad for her, but there are laws in place to protect the little boy if she cant make the responsible decision. No way do I think all laws that are in place are necessary or logical, but in this case, the laws are there to protect the majority, not to hinder the minority. Sex with an adult is not the only thing in life that a 14 yo may not be mentally ready for either. Driving? The rare 14 yo, sure, but not the masses. And there are laws in place for that too.
crazy_grl Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 I think the media frenzy has turned all of you into hysterical zombies, incapable of any nuanced or subtle thoughts of your own. The current hysteria over "child predators" is unmatched except perhaps by the current hysteria over terrorism I'd much rather have people hysterical and over sensitive to this kind of thing (which you inappropriately compare to the war in Iraq.) than to have people take the lax view you have to someone saying they're worried about getting too old to "get their hands on one of these", referring a 14 year old. That statement is disturbing, and it's also disturbing that you see nothing wrong with it. Ojectifying a 14 year old like that is wrong. The second she started saying things like that, my view changed from "that's not cool" to "that's f*cking sick".
electric_sheep Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 I agree that her statements reveal a certain selfishness, and a "conquest" like attitude towards sexuality (an attitude that strikes me as being surprisingly, well... 19ish), and undoubtably her statements would be considered "socially unacceptable", but would they qualify as being "sick"? Unlikely. In fact, sexual relationships like this have been the norm throughout human history. They were accepted and practiced by Native Americans, Austrailian aborigines, African tribes, South American Indians, and last but not least, by Europeans (not to confer any moral superiority on that last group). They were even accepted by our own society (USA) as recently as 100 years ago. By all accounts this "coddling" of youth is a new phenomenon. It is partly the result an economically advanced society with too much time on it's hands, but it also has roots in a prudish and conservative sexual doctrine in American that attempts to control sexuality as best it can. This doctrine makes a couple of assumptions, foremost being that "sex is bad", followed closely by the doctrine of the "purity and sanctity of virginity", or really of female virginity I should say. If we all were to take a deep breath and think rationally about the subject, instead of sensationally, we would discover that in fact evolutionary biologists and anthropologists would find nothing "sick" or unusual about a 19 yo being attracted to a 14 yo. Millions of years of evolution have in fact programmed the attraction into us. From this purely scientific point of view there is nothing unusual about this sort of attraction, UNLESS the younger person has yet to reach the onset of puberty (a pre-pubescent attraction cannot be defended biologically). Just for the record, the DSM reserves the word "pedophilia" for this latter type of attraction (to pre-pubescents). Sometimes the word hebophile is used for an attraction to teens who have reached puberty but are still younger than whatever the age of legal consent is. Not that I give the DSM any credence (the idiots considered homosexuality a disorder until only recently), but I will note that they do not consider hebophilia a mental disorder. If one is more inclined to take a religious take on things, the Christian Bible and the Muslim Koran are replete with examples of what many on this board would term pedophilia. In fact, by the reasoning on this board, I believe both Moses and Mohammed would be considered pedophiles. If this type of relationship is to be considered inherantly "evil", and deserving of all this hell fire and damnation, then why exactly was it acceptable just a 100 years ago? Of particular interest is the fact that virtually every study that has ever been done on the subject has concluded that any damage that comes from such relationships (assuming they are concensual) is completely "socially contexual". Meaning, the damage comes only from how such relationships are viewed and reflected in the society itself, and the damage is magnified or mitigated by how strong societies attitude is. In other words, if society tells you it's wrong and you should feel bad about it, then you will. If society says it's really wrong, then you will feel really bad. If however, you happen to be a South American tribesmen, turns out you will be okay. In case any of you are wondering why I seem to know a lot about this, it's because of my own "reverse-Lolita" relationship when I was barely 15. It prompted me latter on in life to do a little research about it. Because this was a while back, when attitudes were not nearly as vitriolic as they are now, and because I was a boy (the whole "sex is bad" and "sanctity" issues were not drummed into my head as relentlessly as they are into girls), I somehow was miraculously "alright". The entire "young minds are undeveloped" argument smells like bad science done with a conservative agenda. Regardless, if this argument is to be accepted as true, then I suppose all teen sex should adamantly be stamped out. After all, if a "young mind" is going to engage in something as wreckless and dangerous as sex, wouldn't it be better if at least one person knew what they were doing? The "young mind" argument is easily shown to be full of holes and a conservative ruse. I made a lot of false starts and wrong turns when I was a teen. Last I heard it was called "growing up". Lastly, I'd like to say I don't advocate the OP go out on a date with the boy, but I do defend her right to voice her thoughts and her fantasies on this forum without being threatened, and sensationally labeled a "sick pedophile". This kind of mindless "group thinking" has really started to scare the sh*t out of me lately. As someone else pointed out, a boy in Georgia is serving 10 years for getting a blow job from a 15 yo when he was 17. Elsewhere a 15 yo girl was arrested on child pornography charges for having naked pictures of HERSELF. A Mexican women was arrested for sending naked (and innocent) pictures of her kids in the front yard to Walmart for processing. By all accounts our society is starting to get out of control, like it is prone to do. All I'm suggesting is perspective instead of impulsiveness. Anyway, from what I gather the OP has in fact made the right decision, and was simply musing and teasing the idea a little... something 1000's of American men do every day I'm sure, based on the abundance and popularity of such porn series as "Barely Legal" and ilk.
electric_sheep Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 I'd much rather have people hysterical and over sensitive to this kind of thing (which you inappropriately compare to the war in Iraq.) Incidentally... I wasn't comparing this situation to the Iraq war, God knows the Iraq war is far more serious and has destroyed the lives of thousands of people. The comparison was in how in each case all discussion was effectively shut down by hysteria and guerrilla like tactics. Shouts of "unpatriotic" in the case of the Iraq war, and shouts of "sicko" here in this thread. Such extremist thinking is dangerous. Just look what's it's doing to the Middle East. BTW, if anyone wants to see an extremely realistic, well acted, compulsively watchable and nuanced film about this subject I'd recommend "Notes on a Scandal".
soulseeker Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 No doubt some things have been blown out of proportion, but... 100 years ago, what else was different in American society? What was the life expectancy? At what age did people typically get married? I dont think the term "childhood" even existed. Hell, at what age did "children" begin do to manual labor? 5, 6? Would that ok with you today? Maybe some things have changed for the better? Today vs. 100 years ago is comparing apples to oranges. Anyway, McFaden herself said she was having "sick thoughts." That's of some concern. If someone had "sick thoughts" about murdering someone else, would you dismiss it simply because society has labeled murder as wrong? Or would you be concerned? I dont think anyone said she was a bad person. My concern in this situation though, would be for the boy, not her. What was once perhaps acceptable is no longer appropriate for a variety of complex reasons that actually make sense when you look at the bigger picture.
electric_sheep Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 What was once perhaps acceptable is no longer appropriate for a variety of complex reasons that actually make sense when you look at the bigger picture. Well, you won't get any argument from me there. Like I said, I'm not advocating there be no age of consent, I'm just advocating perspective and reason, both of which seem to always get lost in any kind of discussion such as this. You seem to have both, however, which leads me to believe you couldn't possibly be an American. Anyway, I suspect her "sick thoughts" are simply the guilt associated with veering slightly outside the margins on an issue society takes no prisoners on. A simple google on "school girls" should be enough to convince her she isn't the first one to have them. A fact that itself reveals the puzzling dichotomy all this is... a ruthless judgement and condemnation on the one hand, and the blatant sexualization of youth on the other. No wonder we are so f*cked up.
crazy_grl Posted June 15, 2007 Posted June 15, 2007 Incidentally... I wasn't comparing this situation to the Iraq war, God knows the Iraq war is far more serious and has destroyed the lives of thousands of people. Ok, so compare having sex with kids to the iraq war then. Both are traumatic and damaging and should not happen. Pedophilia has also destroyed the lives of thousands of people. Not that I think this girl is a predator about to go trolling the local park for little boys. If I gave that impression, I apologize. (And as an aside, technically I'm pretty sure there's a different term than pedophile for people who have a sexual fixation with teenagers, but I can't remember it.) But I don't think this type of situation should be taken lightly. If she takes this too lightly, she could end up going on the date with this kid, and with the combination of him not taking no for an answer and people saying "it's not so bad", she could have sex with him. Not only is that bad for the kid, she could end up in jail. You’re right that sometimes people can go too far when they're arresting teenagers for having consensual sex with each other. Though still inappropriate, at first this seemed like that type of situation. But then her statements made it seem that she sees this person not as an equal, but as a kid and the thought of being with a kid excites her. That is not normal or okay and it should be dealt with in therapy to be sure it doesn’t develop further. I'm not trying to accuse you of anything, electric_sheep, but your posts do sound eerily similar to things that are on pedophile support sites. They say a lot of those things and more about why it should be ok to have sex with kids. Also, your implication that I have this opinion because it's all over the media or because I've watched a few too many "to catch a predator" episodes is, frankly, insulting. I don't base my opinions on or get hysterical over media hype. I opposed the Iraq war since the beginning when the media was eating out of Bush's hand and nearly everyone I talked to was telling me it was wrong to question the president. It's wrong to have sex with minors and I don't need the media or Chris Hansen to tell me that.
electric_sheep Posted June 16, 2007 Posted June 16, 2007 Not that I think this girl is a predator about to go trolling the local park for little boys. If I gave that impression, I apologize. No problem crazy_grl. I may have just drank too much coffee and be experiencing Media overload. (And as an aside, technically I'm pretty sure there's a different term than pedophile for people who have a sexual fixation with teenagers, but I can't remember it.) I think it's called hebophile. I think I know a few of them. But I don't think this type of situation should be taken lightly. If she takes this too lightly, she could end up going on the date with this kid, and with the combination of him not taking no for an answer and people saying "it's not so bad", she could have sex with him. Not only is that bad for the kid, she could end up in jail. I definitely agree with you there. I'm not trying to accuse you of anything, electric_sheep, but your posts do sound eerily similar to things that are on pedophile support sites. They say a lot of those things and more about why it should be ok to have sex with kids. Interesting. Well, honestly, almost all of my arguments, except for the "biological" one , could be used to excuse that. I wouldn't want to live in a society where that was okay though, even though I agree there is a certain arbitrariness about the whole thing. I think my counter-argument to them would go something like this... Sexuality SHOULD be accorded a "special" status, by virtue of it being one of life's unique experiences. One should be free to attribute to it whatever meaning or feelings one wishes. The problem with allowing young people to have relations with older people is there is the inherant risk of manipulation. The older person is emotionally and mentally at an advantage, and they very well may use this advantage unfairly... and thereby deny the younger the chance to form there own opinion. That's not even to say that they always will, but there certainly is the chance. This is a far more rational argument that all the quasi-religious and "protect the children" hogwash one normally hears (I got a shot gun carrying, fist fight starting, name calling nephew that I can assure you doesn't need any protection, hee hee). The problem with rational talk, devoid of sensationalism, is that it's not effective in rallying the mob for a witch hunt, which is ultimately what a lot of people want. Of course, the thing is this inequality/advantage I talk about is a gradation. The 14, 15, and 16 yo is a totally different animal than the 10 yo. This gradation is seldom acknowledged however, and the term "predator", "child rapist", and "molestor" gets tossed around carelessly, watering down the vocabularly. We need to start recognizing gradations. A truly violent child rapist should have the wrath of God come down on him. The main character in Notes on A Scandal should probably loose her job, and be repremaned, but I don't think it's advantagous to give her the crippling label "sexual offender". (BTW, back when I was young we would have probably taken the label "sexual offender" to be a compliment. My how serious we've all become. Is sensational 24 hour news the real problem, I wonder?) As for that black kid doing 10 years time, well, we should all just consider him a perfectly healthy, young, American boy. Also, your implication that I have this opinion because it's all over the media or because I've watched a few too many "to catch a predator" episodes is, frankly, insulting. Sorry about that. Anyway, peace out, and have a good weekend.
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