How do you ensure No Contact?

[Lynna]

I just had a sudden realization and I could use some advice about two issues. I need to give you a little more background first, thanks for bearing with me. Okay, I found out about the A in December. At that time my H had already accepted a great new job out of town, but I was staying behind for until the summer because of my job committment. December was VERY rough but I knew I wanted to work on our marriage. We have been separated since mid-January.

 

The A was with a MW co-worker, in a very bad marriage from what I hear though I don't sympathize with her. I had known her before the A. The work group hung out a lot and they carpooled to work together - definitely part of the problem because she shared her problems and they became good friends and one thing led to another. It is a small office, so there was no way he could break off contact completely until the move. We could not afford for him to quit early so I had no choice in demanding they break contact. I did go out with him every time their work group got together and he did not go out otherwise. So I know he was trying then.

 

I know that they have stayed in contact though, since he left. When I was there visiting one weekend I found a single email on his home computer, purely by accident. In it she asked what this new email was and said that "newness scares her" BIG warning flag! If they were innocent emails why should newness scare her if nothing is going on?

 

I am still determined to work on our marriage. Though this certainly did not make it any easier! I can't monitor what he does at work. He could very easily have an email address I don't know about that he only accesses from his work computer. There is no way that I can be sure that he completely cuts off contact. What do I do?

 

Now for the second situation which I just realized was going to be a problem. Shortly my H will arrive to help me pack up and move out to be with him. I know that he will want to get together with all his old friends from work one last time. Of course that will include her. There is no way it won't as everyone at work knows they used to carpool and were good friends. His friends already know that he is coming back to help move me and they have already started making plans to get together. So what do I do? Do I say no you can't see any of them? Do I go with him knowing that she will be there and knowing that by now at least some of them know about the A? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[FireandIce]

Tough situation. Personally I'd say NO to the get together. You're both moving anyways and if he is into working this out like you are then he will respect your position about not going to any get together. It's unfair to put you in a situation like that and he should realize that. There is no way in hell I'd go....PERIOD!

 

As for the no contact, well I don't know how you can absolutely ensure that they are no longer contacting each other if he wants to continue to do so. Why is he still contacting her anyways? He wants to work things out right? There should be ZERO reasons for them remaining in contact if he's commited to you.

[Lynna]

I guess he was still contacting her because since they worked together I had never said I did not want them to talk, I knew that was impossible. I guess I should have said something when he moved, but I have to admit, I did not think about it. He seemed so dedicated to making things work and I was so frantic at that time that I did not even think about that possibility. I know, I am pretty stupid! When I confronted him about the email, he said he did not think there was anything wrong with them just being friends. He even said that he wanted to help her because her marriage was so bad! Like he can give marriage advice!

[LucreziaBorgia]

I know that he will want to get together with all his old friends from work one last time. Of course that will include her. There is no way it won't as everyone at work knows they used to carpool and were good friends. His friends already know that he is coming back to help move me and they have already started making plans to get together. So what do I do?

 

I think you should go with him. I would think his reaction to your suggestion would give you all the answer you need in terms of where he stands with this woman.

 

Do you have enough info to expose this woman to her husband? That would cool things off in that affair considerably.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

I can not possibly imagine having to face her in a intimate public situation. That would have to be shear torture. Why in the world do you have to continue to accept the consequences of their bad behavior?

 

Why is it that she must be there? Can he not say that my wife will be there and it would be uncomfortable? If not, then surely you could email her and let her know that her presence would make the situation uncomfortable for everyone. YOU are is wife and you deserve to be at any social function that is held in his honor, ask her to bow out gracefully, if it is over then neither will mind.

 

I'm very sorry for your situation. I wish you luck in working on your marriage.

[lrae]

I just had a sudden realization and I could use some advice about two issues. I need to give you a little more background first, thanks for bearing with me. Okay, I found out about the A in December. At that time my H had already accepted a great new job out of town, but I was staying behind for until the summer because of my job committment. December was VERY rough but I knew I wanted to work on our marriage. We have been separated since mid-January.

 

The A was with a MW co-worker, in a very bad marriage from what I hear though I don't sympathize with her. I had known her before the A. The work group hung out a lot and they carpooled to work together - definitely part of the problem because she shared her problems and they became good friends and one thing led to another. It is a small office, so there was no way he could break off contact completely until the move. We could not afford for him to quit early so I had no choice in demanding they break contact. I did go out with him every time their work group got together and he did not go out otherwise. So I know he was trying then.

 

I know that they have stayed in contact though, since he left. When I was there visiting one weekend I found a single email on his home computer, purely by accident. In it she asked what this new email was and said that "newness scares her" BIG warning flag! If they were innocent emails why should newness scare her if nothing is going on?

 

I am still determined to work on our marriage. Though this certainly did not make it any easier! I can't monitor what he does at work. He could very easily have an email address I don't know about that he only accesses from his work computer. There is no way that I can be sure that he completely cuts off contact. What do I do?

 

Now for the second situation which I just realized was going to be a problem. Shortly my H will arrive to help me pack up and move out to be with him. I know that he will want to get together with all his old friends from work one last time. Of course that will include her. There is no way it won't as everyone at work knows they used to carpool and were good friends. His friends already know that he is coming back to help move me and they have already started making plans to get together. So what do I do? Do I say no you can't see any of them? Do I go with him knowing that she will be there and knowing that by now at least some of them know about the A? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

You can't control his actions or thoughts (as much as we may desperately want to after a betrayal). All you can do is be firm and crystal clear about what is and what is no longer acceptable to you in regards to your marriage. This means detailing actions and thier consequences. It also requires strength to follow through with the consequences or he will call your bluff knowing that ultimately you are unwilling to do anything about it. Make your H accountable (to you and to himself).

 

Who cares if it was a small office and people wonder "why" she's not there? It's a celebration for your H - you need to be there. And in order for you and your H to be comfortable at this get together she cannot be there! She needs to be told by you and your husband (I cannot stress enough the importance of displaying togetherness in this decision) that she is not welcome. There's no going back after the "appropriate" line has been crossed. She could've been there if they hadn't already abused your trust.

[shellys-trying]

If your H is committed to you and working on your M, then the get together shouldn't be that big of a deal.

He should willingly give it up simply because of who is probably going to be there.

JMO

[Lynna]

You can't control his actions or thoughts (as much as we may desperately want to after a betrayal). All you can do is be firm and crystal clear about what is and what is no longer acceptable to you in regards to your marriage. This means detailing actions and thier consequences. It also requires strength to follow through with the consequences or he will call your bluff knowing that ultimately you are unwilling to do anything about it. Make your H accountable (to you and to himself).

 

How do I follow through on consequences if I have no way of knowing whether he is following through or not?

 

Thanks everyone for the good advice. I know once I get moved out there that he will never see her again, therefore there is no reason why they need to keep up any kind of contact.

 

I have not told her husband and to the best of my knowledge he does not know, so yes, I could certainly use that as a consequence if they don't break off all contact. I could tell her that directly myself.

[shellys-trying]

How do I follow through on consequences if I have no way of knowing whether he is following through or not?

 

Thanks everyone for the good advice. I know once I get moved out there that he will never see her again, therefore there is no reason why they need to keep up any kind of contact.

 

I have not told her husband and to the best of my knowledge he does not know, so yes, I could certainly use that as a consequence if they don't break off all contact. I could tell her that directly myself.

 

This xOW's H doesn't know about his W and your H?

Well, that's a bit of leverage you definitely can use against her, if need be.

I would pull the rabbit out if you needed to. Good plan.

[Ripples]

Lynna, it sounds as though there's some uncertainty as to whether your H is fully committed to your marriage? Do you know for sure if he is or not? If he is, then you have been given some great advice. I, personally, would go to the work do with him and ask him, nicely, to support me on that occassion - to not leave my side etc.

 

However, if there is still doubt about his commitment, then that needs to be clarified first. In your other thread, you say you're going to go and see a counsellor once you've both moved, so I understand that's not feasible right now, but could you have an open and honest discussion with him, without it dissolving into an emotional car wreck? I know how hard that is to do, but he's more likely to respond to your questions if you can remain business-like. You may not get the answer you wish for, but you'll have a clearer idea of where he's coming from and where you stand in his current thoughts.

 

If he says he doesn't want you at the work do because the OW will be there, you'll know that he's either scared that you two will fall out infront of everyone or that there's something still going on between them. Then, you can dig a little further to find out which one it is and give him the reassurance that you won't do anything to spoil his leaving do. If it becomes clear that something is going on still, however non-physical it may be, blow them apart - tell her husband and their work.

 

[smartgirl]

I agree with Ripples overall. You should go with him and make sure you talk ahead of time about some rules of engagement - he doesn't talk to her alone and he stays by your side the whole time.

 

Talk to her beforehand. Tell her to cool it or you will have to take steps. Try to appeal to her to do the right thing first. Just pull out the guns if you have to. Tell her no getting too close at the party and no calls or emails after you move.

 

Tell him and her - they are not friends. They are former lovers and you will not tolerate further contact. That is the least your Gdamn H can do after what he has done and what you are having to go through. You can't really put it all together again with her still in the picture -- in any form.

 

He has no business continuing to show concern for her, her marriage or anything else. She is out of the picture completely. That has to be a firm or he won't emotionally disconnect from her in the way he should. Further, it will only help him to rationalize his involvement with her in the first place as "helping" her with her sadness. Puke.

[Lynna]

Thanks for the advice. I did ask him yesterday, in a non-accusing way, how much contact he was having with her. He did not hesitate, he admitted that he talks to her on the phone about once a month and emails with her a few times a month, but said it is tapering off. Now I know that in email at least it is probably more than that, phone is probably about right. I am glad that he admitted right out that he is still in contact with her. It shows me he is at least done with the out and out lying. You are right, I need to tell him that he needs to cut it off completely. I wanted to do it last night, but I feel that will lead to a bigger conversation and I am not sure I want to do that over the phone. He will be here in a few weeks so we can talk in person. Then if I do go to the party with him (still not sure what we will do about that yet) he and I can both tell her together in person that there is going to be no more contact. That way I can be sure that she gets the message. I feel like she would actually honor my request. As much as it seems strange to admit it, she is not a bad person, seriously screwed up with a TON of her own emotional baggage, but she has told me personally that she knows she screwed up and has apologized and said she will do whatever I need. But I want him to break the contact, he needs to show me that he is willing to end it all.

[raincloud]

Hey there Lynna. I just wanted to tell you that you might want to check out surviving infidelity....there is a BS section in their healing library that really gave me some good insight and advice into my situation.

 

I like what Ripples and Smartgirl had to say....good advice.

 

Take care and be strong!

[Melissa277]

Then if I do go to the party with him (still not sure what we will do about that yet) he and I can both tell her together in person that there is going to be no more contact. That way I can be sure that she gets the message. I feel like she would actually honor my request. As much as it seems strange to admit it, she is not a bad person, seriously screwed up with a TON of her own emotional baggage, but she has told me personally that she knows she screwed up and has apologized and said she will do whatever I need. But I want him to break the contact, he needs to show me that he is willing to end it all.

 

I hate to be cynical Lynna, but you need to be on guard around this W. She may admit that what she did was wrong, but I wouldn't trust her as far as I could throw her. If she knows she screwed up and is truly sorry, why is she still communicating (talking on phone, emailing) with him? She knows he is M and that you know about her. She may not be a bad person, but obviously, she has some problems. Watch your back.

[Lynna]

I got some good news, my H actually called a counselor to set up an appointment. All on his own, we had not talked about it in awhile, we just knew it was something we were planning to do together when I moved out to be with him. But he has recognized during this time apart how many issues he has and how much he needs help in dealing with them. He even recognizes that that his issues were the big driving factor in him having the A. I asked him point blank whether he still wanted me to come out there and whether he still wanted to work on our marriage and he said definitely yes. He said I am the best thing that ever happened to him.

 

Now I feel like he will be accepting when I tell him that I want him to end all contact with the OW and that I want to be there to hear it when it happens. I don't know whether he will want to do it in person or on the phone, but I feel pretty confident that it will happen. There is no reason for them to remain in contact, especially since we will be living in another state and they will never have a chance to see each other again. She is married herself and can't just up and move. She already knows the A is over, she is just still relying on his emotional support. Well, I am not going to tolerate an EA. Thanks for all the advice everyone. I will let you know how it goes.

[Lynna]

I am hurting bad. I really need to vent.

 

So the work party for him to say one last goodbye to his friends, well, it turns out there are only going to be three of them there besides him. The OW, and another couple who ALSO were having an A at the same time as my H was! Yeah, I knew about their A at the time, he would come home and tell me about it! He knew I did not approve of what they were doing, I made that clear. Go figure why he got into an affair. If his boss was in one and making no efforts to hide it from ANYONE at work, then that makes it a heck of a lot easier for my H and the OW to think that they can get away with it too I guess! Of course, they were not able to get away with it very long, it only lasted two months before I caught on. Unlike the other couple who went on much longer. And get this, after I found out, and after I decided that I still wanted to work on our M, his boss, who was cheating on his own wife, told my H that he should do the honorable thing and divorce me. The OW of his boss said that my H was disrespecting me by staying and trying to work things out!!!!

 

Well, there is NO WAY that I would go to this thing. And I don’t want him to go either!!!! I had come to the resolution that if it was the whole work group that would be fine, and he could tell her with me there that all contact would end. But with just these few who knew everything that was going on, and who could say those things, there is NO WAY!!!!!!!! He wants to go to say goodbye to them as they are his “friends” yeah, some friends. He swears nothing will happen and that he will never see any of them again. He says he promised he would go. Well, what about the promises that he made to me, you know, the whole “forsaking all others part”!!!!!!!

 

We have been apart for so long, and we were both really missing each other and really looking forward to being together again. Now, the first time we are going to see each other in a very long time is going to result in an argument and a crying fit. I don’t know whether to go into this with him on the phone before he gets here, or wait until we can talk in person. I don’t know how to get across to him how badly this makes me feel. He has already been struggling with various issues and has taken the positive step of making himself a first appointment for counseling, but that has not started yet and won’t before he can come out here. If I deny him the chance to see his “friends” will that make things even worse? Yet, if I let him go I know that I will be a complete basket case. I have already been thinking about what I would do during that time, I have envisioned sitting outside the bar and watching the doors, I have thought about giving him a curfew, I have thought about calling every half hour or so and listening for the bar sounds, I have thought about having friends go to the bar and spy on him. I am back to all the feelings of insecurity, anxiety, and non-trust that I had right after dday. God, I do not want to start our new life in our new state on such a bad beginning. But there is no way around it, either approach will make for a bad start. Either I am unhappy or he is. Things are already going to be stressful enough with packing, cleaning, and driving cross country. Now we are adding this to it. What a miserable week this is going to be.

 

I know what I should do. I know that I should ask him not to go for the sake of our marriage. I know that would be a way he can show me how committed he is to our marriage and to me. But I also know that he is committed. I know what we have talked about since dday and I know that he really does love me and want to work on our marriage. And believe it or not, I actually mostly believe that they would only go to the bar. All that aside, I just want these people out of his life. Out of my life. I want my H back. I our first days together to be a positive time where we can get a positive start on our new life. Sorry this was so long. I just had to vent. Thanks for listening.

[Incognitox]

That's one tough situation. And what a choice for you to make about how to handle it.

 

There is a possible solution to this; you could go along to this thing with him and put on the act of your life. No doubting looks or comments, just positive, positive, positive all the way. Yeah, you'd love to go with him! Yeah, it'd be great to be with him at this! Yeah, you did have issues with this people, but it doesn't matter now! Yeah, you'll drive so he can have a beer or two!

 

You get the idea.

 

It would not only mean you'd be there, seeing and hearing everything that goes on, but it'd show your husband how great a person you can be. If you don't fall out about this, one little bit, he'll be thinking - "wow, she's so strong!" The other's will be completely confused about the situation, too. You may even have the opportunity for some little digs

 

I may be an exOW, but I remember the pain of finding out my long term boyfriend was cheating on me. It's the most painful thing I have ever been through and boy, do I know how hard it is to function at all; never mind put on an Oscar winning act. But if you do do it (and I believe you can) then it'll reap rewards.

 

Either way, good luck and be kind to yourself, hon

[Lynna]

Thanks for the advice Incognitox. I had actually done that act earlier, right after finding out about the A. It did work pretty well but boy was it tough! Now I was just so upset because I was ready for us to be moving on and starting fresh and putting this behind us as much as possible then this sprang up.

 

My husband brought it up again and said that I had seemed upset about it. So I admitted to him that yes I was. I told him a lot of what I was feeling, similar to my earlier post. Because I had gotten out my emotions on my own already I was able to talk and not just get upset. He said well nothing is going to happen, if we are going to make this work you have to start trusting me again. He was hurt that I did not want him to go see his friends one last time. He even said that maybe he should not have told me about it. I pointed out that he had to help me rebuild that trust, and that meant we communicate about everything!!! Then I asked him to think about this from my perspective, what if I had been the one to have an A and then what if I had asked him if it was okay that I stay friends with the guy and still hang out with him and all. He sheepishly said that he would have dealt with it all a LOT worse than I had. That finally got through to him. I am still not sure whether he will go and whether I will accompany him, but he certainly understands better what I am feeling about it all now. So I will consider putting on the act again, he is my H and d**n them all!

[FireandIce]

You're in a tough situation Lynna but I really don't think it's fair for your husband to say "if we're going to make this work then you have to start trusting him". Uhhh no, he broke that trust when he had an affair and it is not up to you to repair it. I really think he's being insensitive about the whole thing. It's not fair for him to still want to go and hang out with her knowing how it makes you feel. Very selfish if you ask me. If he wants this to work then HE needs to make some changes and remember that he's the one who screwed up. I still can't believe he thinks it's acceptable to go out with her after everything that has happened.

[Lynna]

Thanks F&I. Yes, it was unfair of him to say that. And I think he realized that when I asked him how he would feel if our positions were reversed. I could hear it in his voice as he realized how much pain and anger he would feel had I done to him what he did to me. And he realized how unreasonable he was doing. He became upset once he realized how he was hurting me by even asking that. It is amazing how such a simple statement can have such a huge impact on a person. Communication is defintely the most important thing in a relationship. Yes, you won't have a relationship without love, but you won't have one without communication either.

[quiet1one1]

Hi Lynna,

 

Not sure if your interested but I'm reading the book "After the Affair" and it's been SO helpful for me in understanding the dynamics of an A from both the hurt and unfaithful partner's perspectives. I highly recommend both you and your H read it.

[Incognitox]

Thanks for the advice Incognitox. I had actually done that act earlier, right after finding out about the A. It did work pretty well but boy was it tough! Now I was just so upset because I was ready for us to be moving on and starting fresh and putting this behind us as much as possible then this sprang up.

 

Oh I can see how upsetting that is. Especially as you'd been so brave at the start.

 

My husband brought it up again and said that I had seemed upset about it. So I admitted to him that yes I was. I told him a lot of what I was feeling, similar to my earlier post. Because I had gotten out my emotions on my own already I was able to talk and not just get upset. He said well nothing is going to happen, if we are going to make this work you have to start trusting me again. He was hurt that I did not want him to go see his friends one last time. He even said that maybe he should not have told me about it. I pointed out that he had to help me rebuild that trust, and that meant we communicate about everything!!! Then I asked him to think about this from my perspective, what if I had been the one to have an A and then what if I had asked him if it was okay that I stay friends with the guy and still hang out with him and all. He sheepishly said that he would have dealt with it all a LOT worse than I had. That finally got through to him. I am still not sure whether he will go and whether I will accompany him, but he certainly understands better what I am feeling about it all now. So I will consider putting on the act again, he is my H and d**n them all!

 

What a very insensitive, selfish, horrible thing to say to you. Telling you you have to start trusting him again, indeed! I don't know what you or anyone else reckons, but do you think he's being this way because he just simply doesn't care that much for the OW and consequently can't see the issue? You know how men can be at times; if they don't see a problem, they don't understand how anyone else can?

 

D**n them all is right. If you can put this act on and remember it's not forever, you'll both be outta there soon enough, it could be good.

 

Oh Lynna, what a godawful situation for you. ((((((hugs))))))

[Lynna]

Yet another update, and I thought this situation was resolved! After our conversation the other night he said that he would email and tell them that he could not make it to the party. I said thank you. However, now he is here and as we are finishing packing and loading, he keeps dropping comments. First he said that he had sent the email and that it was really hard for him to do. I hugged him and he said I would not do that right now as I am really mad at you. Well of course that really hurt me! What right does he have to be mad at me for me telling him how much it hurts me to have him go off and see the OW and the enablers! I did not say anything, I knew if I tried I would dissolve completely, so I went in another room to pack for awhile. A few other times he has dropped comments that he can let me finish up packing and cleaning while he goes out for a few beers with his friends. I thought he got it during our conversation. But he does not. He is still thinking selfishly.

 

Of course on top of that is all the stress of moving. That just naturally gets people tired and irritable. So that is just inflaming the situation. Things are not going well. Any advice? Thanks!

[Melissa277]

First he said that he had sent the email and that it was really hard for him to do. I hugged him and he said I would not do that right now as I am really mad at you. Well of course that really hurt me! What right does he have to be mad at me for me telling him how much it hurts me to have him go off and see the OW and the enablers! I did not say anything, I knew if I tried I would dissolve completely, so I went in another room to pack for awhile. A few other times he has dropped comments that he can let me finish up packing and cleaning while he goes out for a few beers with his friends. I thought he got it during our conversation. But he does not. He is still thinking selfishly.

 

 

Lynna, is this guy for real? Seriously. So it was hard for him to send a stupid email, so what? So he doesn't get to go to his stupid party? So what? So he doesn't get to say goodbye to his stupid, lying friends? So what? So he's mad and pouting? So what? He needs to stop thinking about himself for a change and consider how hard this is for YOU. He doesn't think you giving him a second chance after what he did is hard for you? He needs to grow up for the love of God.

 

The next time he makes a comment, or does anything that bugs you for that matter, why don't you go up to him, grab him by the left nipple (or right, whichever you prefer), twist really, really hard. Then get right in his face and whisper, through clenched teeth, "Listen *sshole, I'm not putting up with any more of your bullsh*t. Either quit your freakin' pouting, stop making these stupid childish comments and start packing our things so that we begin can put our lives back together or, and I mean this sincerely, I will pack your lyin' cheatin' crap up for you ... and toss it and you right out the door. You get me?" Then twist really hard again and walk away. Maybe then he'll "get it."

 

Too much?

[IfWishesWereHorses]

He even said that maybe he should not have told me about it. I pointed out that he had to help me rebuild that trust, and that meant we communicate about everything!!! Then I asked him to think about this from my perspective, what if I had been the one to have an A and then what if I had asked him if it was okay that I stay friends with the guy and still hang out with him and all. He sheepishly said that he would have dealt with it all a LOT worse than I had. That finally got through to him. I am still not sure whether he will go and whether I will accompany him, but he certainly understands better what I am feeling about it all now.

 

 

Good Grief!!!

 

I should have lied to YOU!!!! Then you have to convince him that it isn't fair. I AM SO SICK AND TIRED OF PLAYING MOMMY TO A MAN!!! Its like having a grown 10 year old that has the freedom at the capability of an adult! Why on earth do YOU have to explain right from wrong, over and over, ad nauseum, when you know THEY know its wrong. CONVINCE them that they are misbehaving. That is passive agressive manipulance on their part. I think they need aversion therapy, I fantasize about a remote control shock collar. When my H decides to act and argue with the logic of a toddler, my thumb goes ape crazy!!!!

 

Create your boundaries and stick to them. He knows somewhere in there that he is wrong and he KNOWS that YOU know he's wrong but if he ACTS like he doesn't get it YOU/I fall into mommy mode. They are a master at self deception, the key is not to get sucked into their orbit! :mad: