sunshinegirl Posted June 11, 2007 Posted June 11, 2007 This is related to the thread a few days ago about guy’s emotional needs. It has recently dawned on me that I am attracted to guys who are not very emotionally communicative (and am sort of turned off by overly expressive guys). But, none of those relationships has worked out. So I am starting to examine my choice in men in more depth. To that end, my question is: at what point does a guy’s lack of emotional expression become a red flag?
che_jesse Posted June 11, 2007 Posted June 11, 2007 A few weeks ago while demanding that a friend of mine go out with a male friend of mine she said "He just seems to emo and gayish." It was a fair enough statement as he is a bit to emo for some people, but not in the least bit gayish. He hugs people alot and wants to listen to you talk about your feelings. Anyway, first make sure you dont have my friends "emotionally expressive guys = gay" thing thing in your head. But if you dont, I would say that to me it becomes a red flag the first time you say to yourself "Gee, that was pretty dick of him, what the ****!... Oh well I'm sure I'm just overreacting." I always approached it thinking that if I feel like someone is being a dick to me then they probably are and I should just move on.
Author sunshinegirl Posted June 11, 2007 Author Posted June 11, 2007 Thanks. So you're saying that emotionally aloof guys may eventually do dick things...because they're actually jerks, or because they don't seem to have a sensitivity chip for other peoples' feelings? I have trouble pulling all the threads of this apart. I once dated a guy who was completely unable to take a hint of even constructive criticism, never ever apologized for anything, and was very very selfish (he turned out to be gay). I would call that the extreme end of emotionally oblivious. Then I dated a gregarious life-of-the-party type of guy who could not verbalize his feelings for me, freaking out when I once told him I was crazy about him. He seemed unable or unwilling to let himself get angry/frustrated, or feel anything other than 'happy' feelings. We had fun together, but he later put walls up, emotionally withdrew from the relationship, and dumped me with no explanation and no willingness to discuss what had just happened. I don't know what to call that - unwilling to be emotionally vulnerable? Most recently I dated a guy who was also not used to verbalizing his feelings. When we first started dating I had to encourage him to "use his words" to tell me what he wanted (ie exclusivity). That said, once we were dating he was nothing but generous, kind, giving, patient, and attentive to me, but he is a scientist and very logic-driven and so not prone to whispering sweet nothings in my ear. He was really thrown off when some unprocessed emotions related to his impending divorce rose up and bit him in the ass. But when that happened, he was honest with me about what was happening for him, and Dr. Logic cried when we broke up so he could deal with them. What do you call that? Friends and family members are starting to comment on this pattern, so I want to figure out if I am choosing men within the normal range of healthy or not.
Krytellan Posted June 11, 2007 Posted June 11, 2007 at what point does a guy’s lack of emotional expression become a red flag? You've dated them, you should be able to answer that yourself. I would say it's always a red flag, unless you don't want someone who can talk about what's bothering him, will be there for you when you need someone, or can talk about things that might be uncomfortable. If you need any of those basic liberties, then the lack of emotion is always a red flag. Answer it for yourself based on what you know. There must be a reason those relationships didn't work. What were they?
Author sunshinegirl Posted June 11, 2007 Author Posted June 11, 2007 I think I'm asking because I don't trust my intuition. I don't have brothers and don't know what is normal to expect in a guy. In retrospect, I can say with certainty that the first two guys I mentioned above were emotionally crippled, but I am way less clear about the third guy. I would say it's always a red flag, unless you don't want someone who can talk about what's bothering him, will be there for you when you need someone, or can talk about things that might be uncomfortable. Third guy told me when he was struggling with something, and needed some down time to deal with what was bothering him. (They never related to me.) He would tell me enough so I understood the issue, but he didn't want to process it with me. He was there for me: when I had a bad day he would change our plans to make me dinner and otherwise help me feel better; if I emailed him about having a bad conversation with my boss, he would ask about it later. And he was okay with me asking questions, even awkward ones, about his marriage - he answered as honestly as he could, even though he didn't always volunteer this information and even though he didn't answer in as much detail or with as much color as I would have, or as a woman might have. Now that we have broken up, people are commenting that he was of the same mold as the first two. When my sister and bro-in-law met him a month ago, they both said later that they liked him a lot, he seemed like a very nice guy, but one who didn't "wear his heart on his sleeve"... that he seemed emotionally reserved. We broke up because he belatedly realized he wasn't through processing his impending divorce (he has a 5-year old with the ex - the impact on her is his core concern). Friends are quickly calling him a jerk for having dated me without being totally over his marriage, but to that I say, well, when we started dating he truly believed he was resolved; and when he realized he wasn't he wasted no time in letting me know and sparing me from more hurt. He apologized for hurting me, said he never meant to, was never leading me on, truly believed he was ready to move on with his life. He has been clear throughout that he does care about me but can't ask me to wait around while he deals with this. (Which some people interpret as "ooh, he's trying to keep you as his back burner girl" while to me it seems more like a sign of emotional maturity to not lead me on and to not promise things he can't deliver.) All of which seem to me things that a half-emotionally-aware-and-mature guy says when he realizes he's screwed up. But given the comments of friends and family, maybe I am completely off base here - and maybe he's just another emotionally retarded guy, like the others I've dated...hence the question to the broader LS community.
lonelybird Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 It could be that you were drawn to them because of their aloofness in the first place. why? you have to ask yourself. Do you want to change them? Do you love the now-he or "possible changed-he"? Are you afraid of emotion intimacy yourself? Does this pattern root in your family? and you just took it and never question it? Do you want to rebel, rebel to good future? sounds impossible, but many of us do and don't realize it You said in your other posts that you don't like to date Christian guys, I wondered why. For me it is impossible that my guy and I don't connect in a deep spiritual level. Most of Christian guys I know of are emotionally healthy, compassionate, loving and caring, and responsible and less selfish, and FUNNY and don't take themselves too seriously...
Hitman10000 Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 Aloof emotionally unavailable introvert here. I wouldn't worry too much, I think the key is to watch his body language and whether he wants to have fun with you. That's kinda the same way I am. If I'm in a dead end relationship, I want to have fun with other friends or withdraw totally. If I'm in a good relationship (with whoever) I emphasize fun and am around that person (s.) I know for myself if I really like someone, I will get off work much earlier or schedule my life to fit around my affections. However if I'm not into her I'll not do that.
DanielMadr Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 This is related to the thread a few days ago about guy’s emotional needs. It has recently dawned on me that I am attracted to guys who are not very emotionally communicative (and am sort of turned off by overly expressive guys). But, none of those relationships has worked out. So I am starting to examine my choice in men in more depth. To that end, my question is: at what point does a guy’s lack of emotional expression become a red flag? When you grow up or live in hostile enviroment you learn pretty early to not show your emotions. Good or bad. You keep it deep down there and even if you love someone dearly you cant just turn into emotional sprinkler switching a button. Never expect from him crying, whining or such an emotional downpour you can see in some chick flicks movies. Never try to "break" him. Respect him for who he is.
stace79 Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 I think you have a similar problem as me....you aren't getting what you want/need out of your relationships, so instead of saying "This guy isn't what I want or need" you try to justify by convincing yourself that "Maybe that's just the way guys are." How about saying for yourself from now on "I want a man who will be open, honest, communicative and loving" (or whatever else you want/need) and if he doesn't fit the bill, who cares why? So many women -- myself included -- want a good, solid relationship that we bend ourselves to fit our guy, or we excuse their inability to fulfill OUR needs by saying "Well that's just how guys are." We have to stop that...
Author sunshinegirl Posted June 12, 2007 Author Posted June 12, 2007 Hi - so many great responses. Thanks! It could be that you were drawn to them because of their aloofness in the first place. why? you have to ask yourself. Lonelybird, this is a good question. I have started asking myself why. Two reasons, I think: (1) My dad is emotionally aloof. NOT unloving - I have never, ever doubted that he loves me, nor have I longed for more "I love yous" from him. He's affectionate toward my mom and his actions are loving. But he's a logic-driven guy not prone to bouts of emotive verbal communication. So that's what I know, that's what I'm comfortable with. (2) I can be emotionally aloof at times - I'm like my dad in many ways. I care deeply about people and will show it through actions, but I can be uncomfortable with a lot of "lovey-dovey" sappiness, I can withdraw when I am trying to work out a problem (that's the introvert in me), and I tire of listening to people (both men and women) who are consistently high verbal processors or otherwise "high maintenance". I wouldn't worry too much, I think the key is to watch his body language and whether he wants to have fun with you. That's kinda the same way I am. If I'm in a dead end relationship, I want to have fun with other friends or withdraw totally. If I'm in a good relationship (with whoever) I emphasize fun and am around that person (s.) I know for myself if I really like someone, I will get off work much earlier or schedule my life to fit around my affections. However if I'm not into her I'll not do that. Thanks, Hitman. That's helpful. Guy #3 very much went out of his way to schedule me into his day; for example he would call me mid-afternoon on a Tuesday to ask if I wanted to take an hour off work to grab coffee. We planned all kinds of fun stuff together - he put together a lot of fun, romantic little things for us to do.
Author sunshinegirl Posted June 12, 2007 Author Posted June 12, 2007 I think you have a similar problem as me....you aren't getting what you want/need out of your relationships, so instead of saying "This guy isn't what I want or need" you try to justify by convincing yourself that "Maybe that's just the way guys are." How about saying for yourself from now on "I want a man who will be open, honest, communicative and loving" (or whatever else you want/need) and if he doesn't fit the bill, who cares why? So many women -- myself included -- want a good, solid relationship that we bend ourselves to fit our guy, or we excuse their inability to fulfill OUR needs by saying "Well that's just how guys are." We have to stop that... I don't think I disagree... but I think what "open, honest, communicative, and loving" LOOKS like in a guy may be different than what I think it should look like. I have a lot of women in my life, I know how to relate to women, I know how women communicate, I know what "open, honest, communicative, and loving" looks like in my female relationships. I just don't know what that looks like in men. They communicate differently than I expect or have experience with, so I am trying to understand what falls within the band of "oh yeah, it's kind of a typical guy thing that they have trouble articulating their feelings" versus "that guy's a jerk / emotionally unavailable. Get out!" Does that make any sense?
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