Lishy Posted June 9, 2007 Posted June 9, 2007 I dont know if anyone can help but I need to ask as I really do not know what to do! Ok I was with my ex for 14 years - We have the most beautiful son in the world and when I left him nearly 3 years ago he went into complete meltdown - He could not accept we were finished and his already unstable mind completely went pearshaped. I met someone new 18 months after we split and when my ex found out he came to my house screaming for my new boyfriend to come down He tried to kill himself (overdose) 3 times since christmas, he was admitted to a nut house 4 times - But Now he seems to be getting on the mend with alot of help from the crisis team and from councellors. He has met a new girl who is not like the scum he was taking up with before. I am putting this is is parenting section as this is to do with my son (I will get to it in a sec I am just giving you the lowdown) The crunch was when my ex sent the police to my house at midnight telling them he had killed me and they were banging my door down! I have got an injunction with power of arrest for him not to harrass or hurt me or our son. He has never hit either of us but he waqs so unstable I was scared. His verbal abuse was awful to both me and his son when he was in meltdown. In the past I could not have wished for a better dad than him - He was second to none but then this mental illness took over him and it all changed. Ok this is my problem - My son, until yesterday, did not want to see his dad. He said he hated him. Recently he has developed a really bad nervous twitch and I was worried that he may be getting bullied so I spoke to him. He told me he wants to see his dad!!!!!!!!!!!! I really do not know what to do here, I know his dad is getting better than he was and I also know he has never laid a finger on my son (My son is 10 BTW) He has not come near me or hassled me since I went to court and he has spoken to my mum and told her he makes me right for everything I have done and that I am the best mum my son could ask for. Alot of our problems stemmed from the fact he was not over me. He is now in a happy relationship and is over me. The bottom line is my son wants to see him so what do I do? My initial feelings is to meet the arsehole and assess for myself how he is and maybe arrange phone contact or an hour in the park as a start. But is this the right thing to do? My son is the most important thing in my life and even though I wish he would never see his dad again I also have to do what is right for my son!
mammax3 Posted June 9, 2007 Posted June 9, 2007 If this were my situation, I think I'd try to let him see his dad. It would be way worse if he tried to get in contact with him without you knowing. This way you can slightly monitor and control the situation, providing it doesn't go against the court ruling and your ex feels he's capable of handling whatever it is your son wants to say to him. I would keep it brief too, and if it goes well maybe next time (if there is a next time?) it can be a little longer. An hour while you jet to the grocery store and pick himup after - leave them in a public place not in a house. That's what i'd do. HTH.
Reckless Posted June 9, 2007 Posted June 9, 2007 I would allow supervised visits if his mental health allows it. I don't know rules on confidentiality, but it might be an idea to see if you can get your ex's doctor to at least confirm that he is capable of handling the meetings and that he doesn't consider your ex a danger to you (or supervisor) and of course your child. I would take his condition very, very seriously (I got shivers with the call to the police that he had killed you - this indicates where his fantasies have turned). Your son's twitch indicates his emotional and mental state and you should think seriously of having some professional input for him too if that hasn't been done already. Ultimately your son has a right to have contact with his father, to the extent that his father is not a danger but tread carefully there are too many dead women that have let their guard down and wind up a tragic story in the newspapers.
Curmudgeon Posted June 9, 2007 Posted June 9, 2007 Have to agree with Reckless. Start with some telephone contact between the two. If that goes well then a short, SUPERVISED visit with another relative or someone else responsible that you and your ex can agree upon in attendance. Gradually lengthen the contact time and at some point, if all goes well, the supervision can be dropped. DO NOT supervise yourself as that could invalidate the injunction. You'll know when and if it's time to drop that as well but for now, let it stand as a guard against anything inappropriate that could occur. I'm a firm believer in letting children of divorce have their own, uninfluenced relationships with both their parents. They deserve to be able to know them on their own terms, not someone else's.
Sheba Posted June 9, 2007 Posted June 9, 2007 I feel for you, Lishy. I agree with the others, your son should see his dad. Curmudgeon's plan is exactly right. Telephone contact should be allowed, and you should watch for any resulting distress after the conversations. If those conversations go well, arrange for supervised visits. There are facilities in some cities for professional supervision - that is, a place where you drop your child off in the care of a social worker and then your ex goes in and meets with your son in the presence of the social worker. You can find these facilities through family law lawyers. The social worker will observe and make notes and can give evidence in Court as a neutral professional if the visits go poorly and must be stopped. If your husband's mental illness is controlled by medication well, then these visits will be a very good thing for your son, who needs to know and feel loved by both his parents.
nittygritty Posted June 9, 2007 Posted June 9, 2007 Lishy, if you are not sure if your ex is mentally stable enough to act like a responsible parent then you need to protect your son. Your ex trying to kill himself 3 times since Christmas and being committed 4 times is scary stuff. I would probably wait a little bit longer before I would allow a short Supervised Visit at a neutral kid friendly place. How do you feel about letting your son talk on the phone to your ex with you listening on another phone extension?
alphamale Posted June 9, 2007 Posted June 9, 2007 My son is the most important thing in my life and even though I wish he would never see his dad again I also have to do what is right for my son! well you have to let him see his dad. there's no other choice.
Pyro Posted June 9, 2007 Posted June 9, 2007 well you have to let him see his dad. there's no other choice. Not if he is still mentally unstable. If you had a child, would you subject your son/daughter to their mother if she was mentally unstable and has yet to prove that she is better?
Pilgrim Posted June 9, 2007 Posted June 9, 2007 Have to agree with curmudgeon about taking things a step at a time. I made a similar request about seeing my dad when I was just a little older than your son is. Another option for a first step which is a bit more controlled is that they could exchange letters first before the phone calls stage. This is easier to do, and gives a chance to talk about what has been said before deciding what to say back - useful if you think his dad is a bit unpredictable.
Ariadne Posted June 10, 2007 Posted June 10, 2007 The bottom line is my son wants to see him so what do I do? Always do what children say. Ariadne
Author Lishy Posted June 10, 2007 Author Posted June 10, 2007 You have all given fabulous advice and I thank you all! I have decided to call my lawyer on Monday and ask if me meeting with him will affect my injunction. I will also call his crisis team and ask about his progress - They are always honest with me. I will then call a social worker who I have been talking to and ask her opinion. If all goes well with those three I will call the arse wipe and arrange to meet him in a public place and talk to him. I will keep it strictly about our son and not about the crap he has done to me (I could fill a whole page with the stuff he has done to me!) I will assess him myself and see if I feel comfortable with my son having some limited phone contact with which I will arrange with the arse wipe on the day and then maybe an hour in the park supervised. I know for a fact he is much better now - Everyone who knows him and these people are not just looking out for him, have told me how he is a different person. (including my mum who bumped into him a month ago) He has done some evil s**t to me and I know this sounds like a contradiction but deep down he is a decent person who had a s***ty childhood and who also tries to do the right thing. If he was still as mad as he became I would not even consider this move even if my son was crying for him. I will let you all know the outcome if you like? Thanks again for confirming what I already believed in - This place is a god send! xx
Pyro Posted June 10, 2007 Posted June 10, 2007 You have all given fabulous advice and I thank you all! I have decided to call my lawyer on Monday and ask if me meeting with him will affect my injunction. I will also call his crisis team and ask about his progress - They are always honest with me. I will then call a social worker who I have been talking to and ask her opinion. If all goes well with those three I will call the arse wipe and arrange to meet him in a public place and talk to him. I will keep it strictly about our son and not about the crap he has done to me (I could fill a whole page with the stuff he has done to me!) I will assess him myself and see if I feel comfortable with my son having some limited phone contact with which I will arrange with the arse wipe on the day and then maybe an hour in the park supervised. I know for a fact he is much better now - Everyone who knows him and these people are not just looking out for him, have told me how he is a different person. (including my mum who bumped into him a month ago) He has done some evil s**t to me and I know this sounds like a contradiction but deep down he is a decent person who had a s***ty childhood and who also tries to do the right thing. If he was still as mad as he became I would not even consider this move even if my son was crying for him. I will let you all know the outcome if you like? Thanks again for confirming what I already believed in - This place is a god send! xx Sounds good and the best of luck to you Lishy.
Author Lishy Posted June 10, 2007 Author Posted June 10, 2007 I have changed my mind lol I am going to call my solicitor and arrange a formal mediation meeting. I will do this formally or I may mess it up. I will keep you all updated!
Pyro Posted June 10, 2007 Posted June 10, 2007 I have changed my mind lol I am going to call my solicitor and arrange a formal mediation meeting. I will do this formally or I may mess it up. I will keep you all updated! IMO, this is a much better idea. You can never be too careful in these matters.
Pyro Posted June 10, 2007 Posted June 10, 2007 Thanks Riddly Poo's!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anytime Lishy Poo's.
Topper Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 Lisy, I just have one thing to say. Calling your mentally Ill ex husband names is about a low as you can get. Have a little compassion for the guy. You should be ashamed of yourself. I havea relative that is Bipolar. I know how hard it is to be around a person that is mentally Ill. I also know that behind that sick mind is a guy who is very cool and a loving father to his child.
nittygritty Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 Lisy, I just have one thing to say. Calling your mentally Ill ex husband names is about a low as you can get. Have a little compassion for the guy. You should be ashamed of yourself. I havea relative that is Bipolar. I know how hard it is to be around a person that is mentally Ill. I also know that behind that sick mind is a guy who is very cool and a loving father to his child. I disagree. There is no way that you can know "that behind that sick mind is a guy who is very cool and a loving father to his child". Lishy doesn't owe her ex anything and her venting after what her ex has put her and her son through is more than understandable. She spoke a lot kinder than I would about the selfish, abusive, irresponsible jerk. I have very little compassion for people that abuse or neglect kids. Mental Illness is no excuse and is very unpredictable. Many people with mental illness do not take their medication. Lishy is being a responsible and loving parent by trying to protect her son from further harm from his irresponsible, mentally ill father. She is also raising her son by herself why his dad is off having is "meltdown" and having to help her son cope with everything her ex does. It is incredibly stressful and painful to see your child suffering because it is not safe for them to see their other parent. Lishy and her son deserve our compassion, not her mentally ill ex.
Sheba Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 I think Lishy, her son and her ex all deserve compassion - but Lishy is the one who is here, asking! Mentally ill people are as individual as everyone else. Lishy's ex may be an "innocent" - he may be severely ill and deserving of our most profound understanding. He might be less severely ill and by nature an a**hole. Being mentally ill does not put a whitewash on all personality traits which are unrelated to the illness. It really is impossible for us to judge the man in question. All we can do is respond to Lishy. I think that the child needs contact with his father and Lishy's job is to facilitate that contact while making sure her child is safe. It sounds to me as if the best plan involves a plan created in consultation with her lawyer and supervision of the contact.
nittygritty Posted June 12, 2007 Posted June 12, 2007 Lishy's ex has been legally deemed to be unsafe to himself and others, particularly Lishy and her son. It requires sufficient evidence for most judicial systems to issue an injuction or a protective order. Life threatening proof. 3 suicide attempts and 4 commitments to a mental facility since Christmas is sufficient evidence in my book. In the United States the courts usually put a deadline to the number of Supervised Visits you can request before they start allowing Unsupervised Visits again. Lishy is correct to do everything possible to protect her son, even if that means her son being unable to see his mentally ill father because it is not safe at this time. There is no benefit to Lishy's son to hang out with his mentally ill father if his father has another psychotic episode or chooses not to take his medication and puts their son's emotional and physical well being at risk. Lishy and her son are dealing with a very difficult situation. Being a good and responsible parent requires looking out for your child's safety and well being. Lishy is doing everything she can to do that, even if that means that despite her child's wishes to see his father it is not safe for him to do that without the visit being supervised and if Lishy finds out that she can only request a certain number of supervised visits before the courts allow will allow unsupervised visits than I would caution her to possibly wait a little longer before starting supervised visits and also to make sure that she gets in writing a legal agreement that covers as much protection as possible for her son during any kind of visitation. Coping with the loss of a parent is much easier for kids to deal with than coping with being repeatedly physically or emotionally harmed. Lishy's son misses having a responsible dad, which is not necessarily the kind of dad he has at this time due to his father's mental illness. I don't understand why everyone keeps saying that they think the most important thing is for Lishy's son to have contact with a father that emotionally abuses him and may have a life threatening psychotic episode when Lishy is not there to protect her child. Unfortunately, the legal system is sometimes just a crapshoot. Most abusive and neglectful parents are mentally ill. That doesn't mean that they should be allowed to continue to be alone with children.
Author Lishy Posted June 12, 2007 Author Posted June 12, 2007 Lisy, I just have one thing to say. Calling your mentally Ill ex husband names is about a low as you can get. Have a little compassion for the guy. You should be ashamed of yourself. I have a relative that is Bipolar. I know how hard it is to be around a person that is mentally Ill. I also know that behind that sick mind is a guy who is very cool and a loving father to his child. I was actually being very polite and kind calling him an arsewipe! I would like to call him much worse but he is the father of my child and also this forum does not allow you to use the profanties he deserves! Walk a mile in my shoes before you judge me! Your relative may have Bipolar but my ex does not! His problem is half illness, half personality. I have known this man for 14 years and he is the filth I scrape off of my shoe! BUT he is the father of my son and my son wants to see him, so I am taking the appropriate SAFE steps so that the arsewipe can see our beautiful, sweet son! Thank you again to everyone who gave such wonderful advice, it was more appreciated than you will know!
Topper Posted June 13, 2007 Posted June 13, 2007 In the past I could not have wished for a better dad than him - He was second to none but then this mental illness took over him and it all changed. Lishy, I stand by my criticism. I do understand your concern for your child's safety. Most of the advice here has been very good.
Author Lishy Posted July 6, 2007 Author Posted July 6, 2007 Well my son is now talking to his dad on the phone, this started yesterday. I feel sick! I dont know if I am doing the right thing here and have spent all morning crying! I am so scared of making a decision that damages my son! How the hell do I know when its ok for him to see him either supervised or not? How can I tell khe will be ok with my son? I wish he would just move to Outer Mongolia and be done with it! Has anyone else dealt with anything like this? Wow I feel desperate!!!!!!!!!!!!
Zona76 Posted July 7, 2007 Posted July 7, 2007 This sounds like a touchy situation. I would ask for a supervision of a third party. Even if it meant to hire a non-duty police officer. Also perhaps a non relative, someone the child trusts. If he is Bi-Polar, they rarely stick to their medication. Ask for a signed documentation from his doctor that he is keeping within the medical guidelines of his present problems and condition. This way the Doctor may be blamed if there is a problem that occurs in this meeting. (I doubt any Doctor would sign such a document) Lastly explain to your son the story. Try and be calm but let him know his fathers medical condition. Speak NOT as a parent but as a third party. His father is irrational and has outbursts and from time to time may say and do things that don't appear right. And maybe frightening. Explain his father had to leave to seek medical help. As his parent you are concerned and will always want the best for him. Have a sign suggested to the person of supervision that the child can offer if he begins to feel uncomfortable; *scratching his elbow or pulling his earlobe* Don't put the father down in front of the boy. This will only have him forced to chose between you.
Recommended Posts