whirlwinds_sister Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 My MM and I met when our marriages were both on their way to over. We actually even made plans for a future. The W found out and drew her children into it to manipulate. This is all verified and is not an easy way out on his part. MM tells me we have to end this and he wants me to hate him--easier for him to move on and his way of making sure NC I think, but during our break up he of course was distraught. So, instead we both decided we could not let completely go and vowed to form a friendship, thinking maybe it is what we should have had from the get go. We go several months--flirt here and there and then draw back. Mostly able to get to know each other even more and develop a friendship. Then we see each other again and do well for a good part of the visit and then 'weakness'. We draw back again. The whole time, MM knows he can not have both. He says I deserve the whole enchilada and does not want to keep me in an A. Like I said, we both did well and he was committed to that knowing he could not give me what I should have. Something happened a couple months ago. All of a sudden out of the blue, he is back to flirting heavy and strrong with me. He now wants to see me again, even if only to see pics(doesn't have to be dirty). Misses me and now does not have any regrets. He is and has always been glad he met me. He has loved me, held a flame for me and finally it all let out. And he's maintained keeping that intensity again. i admit, I was willing. Things are still just so so for me in my M. Why the shift folks? After being so dedicated to being respectful and doing the right thing to being ok with essentially being in an A? Willing now to have me in whatever way he can? Or is he desensitized now to the moral issues? Let me also add since we are long distance, this is very much an ea even though it has been a pa. FWIW too, I am not a total secret or anything. He is very close to his parent, whom he looks up to and respects her opinion, and that parent is well awarer we are still talking, even if only in a friendly manner. I'll let you all decipher, good or bad. I also wish I found you all a while ago when this all first went down. Oh, how I needed the support at that time. I never felt so sad in my life.
whichwayisup Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 Who cares if his parents know you two are close, what counts is, does his wife know and does your husband know? First of all, if the MM wasn't in the picture at all, could you be happy in your marriage? Were you happy in your marriage before he entered into your life? Bottomline, you can't keep going to him and him coming to you. It will only cause more pain. You can't be 'friends' with someone you're inlove with and want. Unless you enjoy feeling the ups and downs of the rollercoaster you're on! What is it that you want? To stay the OW and accept the little bits he can offer you? Or that you can offer him? If you love him that much, then divorce your husband and let your husband find a woman who can love him and be faithful to him. .. Its just selfish to go on like this. And it's making you miserable.
Tomcat33 Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 Why the shift folks? After being so dedicated to being respectful and doing the right thing to being ok with essentially being in an A? Willing now to have me in whatever way he can? Because like in a lot of cases where there has be and A and the H tries to focus back on the marriage that had deep problems to begin with, after the "honeymoon" stage of patching things up with his W wares off, the realities of the complacencies of what lead him to cheat in the first time catch up with him again, and instead of working harder to overcome what it is wrong in the M, he starts to crave the excitement of what he had with you. I think that whenever there has been and intense A that was lengthy and that was cut off due "to doing the right thing" those feelings don't disappear that easily. You always carry a torch for the person you shared so much with in such a short but intense while. I think once the cheate experiences this it's extremely hard to refocus again for good, it's rare I think. Too many intense emtions and intense memories to over come, often these men didn't even feel that level of intesity in the true honeymoon stage of their marriages so it is a huge experience to overcome. That's why they tend to come back sniffing around months after the fact. It's addictive. Question is, do you want to fall back into the same pattern so that he gets his next fix and can refocus for another period of time on pretending everything is fine at homë? I think this is your chance to make it right. Call his bluf and let him decide on what he can do to make it right for YOU this time. If he wants to have you in any shape way or form, then spell it out for him "you can have me as you wish, provided you get divorced, otherwise there is no me"
bonehead Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 WWIU is totally right. But having been the OM, and I guess to a point the MM in a relationship I would like to add a few things. With it being a LD relationship to boot, you have no idea if he is being honest with you. So what he parents know about his friendship with you. That doesnt mean a thing. I have a lot of female friends, and my mom knows about them. They are nothing more then friends. Why the shift? Could be mulitple things. 1) He misses the thrill. 2) He needs the ego boost 3) They got into a fight and your his revenge 4) He might be ready to actually leave. Though I wouldnt hold your breath for number 4. Being a LD as I said you havve no way of knowning. Since it started out as an affiar and he backed off I would really question the condition of his marriage, and if it is as he says, whats the odds of one of you being able to relocate to carry on a true relationship. I noticed you didnt say a thing about your marriage or if you have children.
Author whirlwinds_sister Posted June 7, 2007 Author Posted June 7, 2007 Who cares if his parents know you two are close, what counts is, does his wife know and does your husband know? First of all, if the MM wasn't in the picture at all, could you be happy in your marriage? Were you happy in your marriage before he entered into your life? Bottomline, you can't keep going to him and him coming to you. It will only cause more pain. You can't be 'friends' with someone you're inlove with and want. Unless you enjoy feeling the ups and downs of the rollercoaster you're on! What is it that you want? To stay the OW and accept the little bits he can offer you? Or that you can offer him? If you love him that much, then divorce your husband and let your husband find a woman who can love him and be faithful to him. .. Its just selfish to go on like this. And it's making you miserable. I understand this and I make my own decision where that is concerned. I am the type of person though who like to figure things out and mull them over. All I am asking is the opinion of the shift and I gave some detail about him since I don't post here normally so it would give some perspective. I've already asked the questions you are asking me. His W knows, and she has no illusions that he didn't love me...she read it for herself and it came from his own lips. So she is in no way dismissive of the feelings there. As for mine, we were seperated. i hardly thought it was my H business to know yet I had met someone else. We are working on it mainly for our children. AS for OM, there is nothing to end really from my perspective. I have resolved to let it go because I don't want scraps, no matter how much he loves me, but I still would like to have perspective on his shift. Not to give him any leeway, believe me, but for me to sort on my own. This to me is a part of healing. I'd appreciate cooling the abrasiveness. I already am resolved to what will happen. I am just in the figuring out my behavior over the last year and filing away what was a rollercoaster as a distant memory. I only am asking the eyes of others for advice to help me through some of the bumps while I make my way to the filing cabinet. That's all. Thank you for your input.
whichwayisup Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 i hardly thought it was my H business to know yet I had met someone else. We are working on it mainly for our children Well, if you intend on giving it your best, fixing your marriage, do it. Don't keep the door open a crack, not even for friendship with the MM. All that will do is close your heart towards your husband and null any chance of it really working out. Having your focus in two different places won't help. Try to make your own closure, make peace with this somehow without involving the MM. Good advice by Bonehead too.
Author whirlwinds_sister Posted June 7, 2007 Author Posted June 7, 2007 WWIU is totally right. But having been the OM, and I guess to a point the MM in a relationship I would like to add a few things. With it being a LD relationship to boot, you have no idea if he is being honest with you. So what he parents know about his friendship with you. That doesnt mean a thing. I have a lot of female friends, and my mom knows about them. They are nothing more then friends. Why the shift? Could be mulitple things. 1) He misses the thrill. 2) He needs the ego boost 3) They got into a fight and your his revenge 4) He might be ready to actually leave. Though I wouldnt hold your breath for number 4. Being a LD as I said you havve no way of knowning. Since it started out as an affiar and he backed off I would really question the condition of his marriage, and if it is as he says, whats the odds of one of you being able to relocate to carry on a true relationship. I noticed you didnt say a thing about your marriage or if you have children. I don't wish to discuss those things. Like I said, I am resolving all this, not to move on with the MM, but so I can move on with my own life. I acknowledge it needs to be let go. I appreciate what you are saying. These were the questions i very much wanted answered. The LD in my mind is actually a blessing. It makes it easier to disengage and lessens any P temptation greatly. It's too painful to discuss my family. I live with a lot of guilt, even if I was seperated at the time.
Tomcat33 Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 I don't think it's an ego boost he clearly still has feelings for you and things at home are not as he had thought would pan out, as often happens. People try to renew their marriages after something as huge as an A and only to find themselves time down the road with the same types of problems that they had before. Let's face it you can only change your attitude so much to improve a rel but people DON'T change. And by the looks of it that marriage has very little hope for improvement when the man is still looking for you.
Author whirlwinds_sister Posted June 7, 2007 Author Posted June 7, 2007 Well, if you intend on giving it your best, fixing your marriage, do it. Don't keep the door open a crack, not even for friendship with the MM. All that will do is close your heart towards your husband and null any chance of it really working out. Having your focus in two different places won't help. Try to make your own closure, make peace with this somehow without involving the MM. Good advice by Bonehead too. Thank you WW, that is why I am here and not talking to MM about it and re-engaging him. I do not want to have the discussion with him and incite anything. I am not asking you all to justify his behavior to make if flowery for me, but just to help another sad person figure out the rollercoaster of the last year. H is making a huge effort now. I certainly do not want him to be doing it in vain and it is why there is nc at this point. THAT was my choice this time and unlike the OM, I refuse to carry on the contact now that the dynamic here has changed. And we tried the friends route...eventually those feelings ALWAYS end up boiling over into more so that's not an option and as you said, it is a distraction from where the real attention and effort needs to be. Thank you.
whichwayisup Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 You're very welcome! You have a good attitude about this and your heading in the right direction, even if it is painful for you now - You're doing okay. Keep posting here, you'll get lots of support and insight too. You're also right, it being LD is a blessing because that way you can detach easier by not worrying about running into him. Stay strong and do something special with your husband. Whether it be a night out to see a movie, a dinner date together or going for a walk, just do some bonding with him. Try to remember what it was that you saw in your H years ago when you two first met. The love and affection is there, so give it time...
Author whirlwinds_sister Posted June 7, 2007 Author Posted June 7, 2007 I don't think it's an ego boost he clearly still has feelings for you and things at home are not as he had thought would pan out, as often happens. People try to renew their marriages after something as huge as an A and only to find themselves time down the road with the same types of problems that they had before. Let's face it you can only change your attitude so much to improve a rel but people DON'T change. And by the looks of it that marriage has very little hope for improvement when the man is still looking for you. yes, I understand that sadly for him, but I have made headway here so his reaching out really is too little too late in my eyes. I knew he would be where he is too since like happens oftentimes with this all the anger and energy was directed at me by her and no real work was done on their marriage(btw, the W started the viscious cycle with an affair herself--one that produced a child he is now raising). I feel sad for him, but as I told him, he has to make a decision. Either live in a marriage he is unhappy in and find another way to fulfill himself--work, hobbies, his children and just forget his 'dream'. or leave her, even if it means he will be alone and his children will have to live with divorce. I refuse to get his scraps while he is deciding..no matter our feelings for one another...it just can't go on like it was.
whichwayisup Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 People try to renew their marriages after something as huge as an A and only to find themselves time down the road with the same types of problems that they had before Only if they don't want to fix their marriage or neither is willing to put in 100% effort that could happen. In this situation, it really seems like she wants to stay and work things out at home, and leave the MM out of her life no matter what he still feels for her.
bonehead Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 I don't wish to discuss those things. Like I said, I am resolving all this, not to move on with the MM, but so I can move on with my own life. I acknowledge it needs to be let go. I appreciate what you are saying. These were the questions i very much wanted answered. The LD in my mind is actually a blessing. It makes it easier to disengage and lessens any P temptation greatly. It's too painful to discuss my family. I live with a lot of guilt, even if I was seperated at the time. If your intention is to move on WITHOUT MM then why even fret over why the shift? Its a moot point and your only keeping things alive in your mind if you sit there and try to figure out the whys and what fors.
Author whirlwinds_sister Posted June 7, 2007 Author Posted June 7, 2007 You're very welcome! You have a good attitude about this and your heading in the right direction, even if it is painful for you now - You're doing okay. Keep posting here, you'll get lots of support and insight too. You're also right, it being LD is a blessing because that way you can detach easier by not worrying about running into him. Stay strong and do something special with your husband. Whether it be a night out to see a movie, a dinner date together or going for a walk, just do some bonding with him. Try to remember what it was that you saw in your H years ago when you two first met. The love and affection is there, so give it time... Thank you. We are working very hard at this. We lost what we had because of the usual--so many responsibilities include a child with challenges and we fell apart. Instead of supporting one another, we tore each other up. Sleeping in seperate beds because of the children's needs. Money problems. At one point, he was very neglectful. I've since taken responsibility for my part in helping him get that attitude and he's realizing you can't be lazy about some things where intimacy is concerned. And we are planning time together. We are making plans to have a second honeymoon sometime next year:-) You'll notice I still have residual concern for the OM, but i do realize I'm not his counselor. I have let him go...he has to resolve his own issues. And hopefully on the other side of it, should we someday find ourselves in a discussion, we will find we are both very happy with where we have ended up.
Author whirlwinds_sister Posted June 7, 2007 Author Posted June 7, 2007 If your intention is to move on WITHOUT MM then why even fret over why the shift? Its a moot point and your only keeping things alive in your mind if you sit there and try to figure out the whys and what fors. I understand, but this is how I am. My friends know I pour over and analyze everything. Trust me, it is no indication of my intention with him..it is really just how I am.
Tomcat33 Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 yes, I understand that sadly for him, but I have made headway here so his reaching out really is too little too late in my eyes. I knew he would be where he is too since like happens oftentimes with this all the anger and energy was directed at me by her and no real work was done on their marriage(btw, the W started the viscious cycle with an affair herself--one that produced a child he is now raising). I feel sad for him, but as I told him, he has to make a decision. Either live in a marriage he is unhappy in and find another way to fulfill himself--work, hobbies, his children and just forget his 'dream'. or leave her, even if it means he will be alone and his children will have to live with divorce. I refuse to get his scraps while he is deciding..no matter our feelings for one another...it just can't go on like it was. Well good for you for sticking to your guns. I agree with you that it is now too late. And scraps are not good enough, but you have to really love yourself first to have that attitude so good for your for doing that. However as you said earlier there is a certain form of solace in knowing that he is stuffling to get over you. It gives you that much more strength to move on and get your own closure. Sad for him but good for you. I still think things are going really crap in his marriage that is why he is reaching out now. It's obvious.
Author whirlwinds_sister Posted June 7, 2007 Author Posted June 7, 2007 Only if they don't want to fix their marriage or neither is willing to put in 100% effort that could happen. In this situation, it really seems like she wants to stay and work things out at home, and leave the MM out of her life no matter what he still feels for her. Yes and as I stated, too little, too late. He already has been told, if I was available, short of him showing up on my door on bended knee, I would not believe his intentions to leave. I don't expect to be available, nor do i think he will leave so it is resolved. Like I said, I'm an analyzer though. It helps to heal. You guys are my cheap therapy:o:D
Tomcat33 Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 I think what you are doing is totally healthy the only way to move on is to ride out the emotions his contact evokes. Analysing if fine it means you are willing to deal with the new found emotions. I see it as a positive.
whichwayisup Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 You'll notice I still have residual concern for the OM, but i do realize I'm not his counselor. I have let him go...he has to resolve his own issues. And hopefully on the other side of it, should we someday find ourselves in a discussion, we will find we are both very happy with where we have ended up. Yes, he's a big boy and will survive. Don't let the emotional stuff and feelings of attachment for him get in the way. You can care about him, but in a non-active way.
whichwayisup Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 Thank you. We are working very hard at this. We lost what we had because of the usual--so many responsibilities include a child with challenges and we fell apart. Instead of supporting one another, we tore each other up. Sleeping in seperate beds because of the children's needs. Money problems. At one point, he was very neglectful. I've since taken responsibility for my part in helping him get that attitude and he's realizing you can't be lazy about some things where intimacy is concerned. And we are planning time together. We are making plans to have a second honeymoon sometime next year:-) That's great! Things to look forward to and plan into the future. Your kids will flourish from this as well.
Author whirlwinds_sister Posted June 7, 2007 Author Posted June 7, 2007 Well good for you for sticking to your guns. I agree with you that it is now too late. And scraps are not good enough, but you have to really love yourself first to have that attitude so good for your for doing that. However as you said earlier there is a certain form of solace in knowing that he is stuffling to get over you. It gives you that much more strength to move on and get your own closure. Sad for him but good for you. I still think things are going really crap in his marriage that is why he is reaching out now. It's obvious. It does offer me solace that he really did have feelings, but like I said, it matters for nothing at this point. I just hope for him as another human being would now to heal whatever it is he needs to heal and move on if that is what he needs to do. Thank you all for your support. I would like to stick around and help if I can with others. I have been on both sides of this now...maybe i can offer something to someone to help. But for now, my eyelids are getting heavy. Goodnight to you all.
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