april sunshine Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 I'm curious to hear some male perspectives re the emotional impact of 'finally getting the girl', and how this might influence a decision around ending a marriage after the fact. Some background first....Have been in contact with MM for 2 months, prior to this we had not had contact for over 10 yrs (since our early twenties). We had been the closest of friends for about four years up until we lost contact....no history of intimacy (I adored him and was definately attracted to him but felt that romance might interfere with the friendship that meant everything to me), he reluctantly accepted the 'no intimacy' thing, but always let me know that he wanted more, that I was 'the one'....Life became complicated when I met someone else and mistakenly became pregnant, MM was devestated to say the least, but supportive and understanding nevertheless. When my child was about 2 he told me that he would never get over me, that despite trying to move on he was never going to meet someone who he would love as much as me, that there is only one of me, and I am not replaceable, and he wished that we had given a relationship a chance. He did go on to meet another woman several years later and is now married to her.....he says that although she is a good person, she has always been second best to me, but he has made sure that she has never for a moment felt as though she is second best to anyone. They have a young child together.....their marriage is not brilliant, but not the worst in the world either. MM says that he will never feel guilty for what we have done, as I am one of the best things that has ever happened to him, and he feels as though we should always have been together anyway. We meet a couple of times a week for lunch, email one another, and occasionally have a coffee after work. There has only been one intimate encounter.....described by him as a 'dream come true' as he thought he would never get the chance to know me intimately.....he says that he has loved me in every other way for half a lifetime, and being intimate with me is something that he will never feel regretful about, no matter what happens because of it....initially MM was wanting to leave W immediately to be with me, I got him to promise me that he would give it some time as it is a huge thing to do, and not a decision to be made overnight. I have spoken with MM about my own feelings of guilt re this situation, but I have also told him that I have always known he was the one for me, and I am very regretful that I made some bad choices when I was younger....he doesn't blame me for the relationship we didn't have as we were both young and didn't know then what we know now.....we have both missed one another for years, and have each thought about the other very often. MM knows that when W is either told about me, or finds out about me, she will end the M because she has always felt as though I am a threat to her. I have never met her, however, she can tell ' by the expression on his face, and the way he 'lights up' when my name is ever mentioned by mutual aquaintances that he 'loves me'. He has always tried to reassure her about his feelings for me by saying that we have no history of anything other than friendship. However, this is no longer true, as that particular line has been crossed. At the moment, MM is not being particularly cautious about being seen with me, and is calling me from his cell phone - W has easy access to bills and call details. He has joined a gym (usually doesn't bother), is distracted, proccupied etc. He has told me that W is very suspicious and would not be surprised if she is either following him, or having an investigator check on him.....MM knows that telling W will be very difficult, and very painful for her.....he is not really sure how to do it yet, and has said that it would almost be easier if she 'just found out'. He has said that if she confronts him with any direct questions before he has figured out how to tell her, he will be honest with her, and try to be as gentle as possible...personally, I think that we are both going to end up sorry and sad for what we have done, as I believe that W deserves better than this kind of betrayal, hence, no more intimacy. From a female perspective, MM has been such a significant person in my life for so many years, I have never felt the same way about another man. I have never forgotten the feelings I have for him, and I have always wished that we could have a second chance. I am wondering if there any men on this site who have similar stories from the male point of view re significant women in their lives? And if so, how do these situations pan out?
Curmudgeon Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 At the moment, MM is not being particularly cautious about being seen with me, and is calling me from his cell phone - W has easy access to bills and call details. He has joined a gym (usually doesn't bother), is distracted, proccupied etc. He has told me that W is very suspicious and would not be surprised if she is either following him, or having an investigator check on him.....MM knows that telling W will be very difficult, and very painful for her.....he is not really sure how to do it yet, and has said that it would almost be easier if she 'just found out'. He has said that if she confronts him with any direct questions before he has figured out how to tell her, he will be honest with her, and try to be as gentle as possible...personally, I think that we are both going to end up sorry and sad for what we have done, as I believe that W deserves better than this kind of betrayal, hence, no more intimacy. First, understand that I'm a MM who's totally faithful to his wife . That being said, I think your MM really does want to get caught. I'm sorry but I find that quite unattractive and bordering on cowardice. Rather than coming out up front and telling his wife that he loves another and is leaving for her, he would rather get caught and have his wife make the decision to end the marriage. That would take it out of his hands and lay it at her feet. That is NOT admirable! As always, just one man's opinion!
Green Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 I would just say dont go out with MM your not at ur best when you do, and neigther are they
Tomcat33 Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 I'm not a man but I would have to agree entirely with Curmudgeon's post. Not only does the man sound like a coward, he is so much so one that even when faced with getting caught it might just be the trigger he needs to make him realise how much he does NOT want to leave his marriage. Some men just look for wakeup calls for their spouses, they don't want to be dumped they just want their spouses to act up and in this case it could just catapult her into trying to win him back. Either way it sounds like a lose lose situation for you. Unless he is willing to walk the talk on his own merits, I would steer clear of his pretty words with no meaning, which right now unfortunately it's what they appear to be. I know this is hard to hear but sometimes we look for deeper meanings when the meaning is looking at us straight in the face.
Author april sunshine Posted June 6, 2007 Author Posted June 6, 2007 C, I agree with you that not telling his wife is unfair and not admiral.... I am certain that he is really struggling with the situation, and being avoidant - I believe it is because he is quite overwhelmed with the new developments in his life, and he genuinely does not want to hurt her. Neither of us ever foresaw anything like this happening a couple of months ago, and it has really changed our world's. Unfortnately, it has really changed his wife's world as well, she just doesn't know it yet. I am sympathetic towards the position he is in....if it was me standing in his shoes it would be handled quite differently. I'm not sure which direction this is taking, it may even turn out that he decides he can't hurt her like this. He has said that he is never prepared to lose contact with me again....and I have said that I will accept friendship if that is all his conscience can cope with. But, for us to continue contact, his W will have to be told, and she will not allow him to be friends with me anyway....he has said that he can't accept that rule anymore. Additionally, he has said that it would be impossible to look at me as only friend now anyway.
Remy Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 Sorry I can't provide a male's perspective but it seems you are describing a relationship that is perfect for both of you. Why don't you just tell your respective partners the truth. (I am not sure if you are still with the father of your baby?) Surely it is kinder and quicker to just get it over and done. Maybe you could offer to tell the wife if MM is not able to do it. Then you can get on with your life together. I understand the wife will be upset - but surely it would be more upsetting the longer it goes on and she doesn't know.
Author april sunshine Posted June 6, 2007 Author Posted June 6, 2007 Sorry I can't provide a male's perspective but it seems you are describing a relationship that is perfect for both of you. Why don't you just tell your respective partners the truth. (I am not sure if you are still with the father of your baby?) Surely it is kinder and quicker to just get it over and done. Maybe you could offer to tell the wife if MM is not able to do it. Then you can get on with your life together. I understand the wife will be upset - but surely it would be more upsetting the longer it goes on and she doesn't know. Thanks for you input Remy....I think we are perfect for one another as well....I don't have a partner, I have been divorced for six years, so my personal situation is far less complicated than his. Additionally, my baby is all grown up! - 16y/o now. His child is still very young, so again, probably more difficult in terms of family considerations for him than me. Having said that, I wish I had left my H many years before I actually did, as I think it would have been far easier for my child to adjust to, and there would have been less emotional hurt all round....I may have to talk with him about what I have learnt from personal experience re divorce affecting the emotional well-being of children. As a woman, trying to empathise with how his wife is going to feel should she find out, I agree that the longer he and I are in contact, the more awful it is going to feel for her. As a woman, I would have more respect for a man who told me sooner rather than later...it would at least indicate that he feels bad about the dishonesty.....Knowing him as well as I do, I am confident that he is busily trying to work out a way to spare her feelings, although I don't see how that is really possible. I think he is kidding himself that our meetings in public places, near to his work, where his colleagues will wonder over to say hello, is a way to deny that we have done anything wrong (nothing to hide?!) when W confronts him at some stage. It is interesting that you suggest I offer to speak with W myself....he has jokingly said to me 'sometimes I wish you would just pick up the phone and call her, and tell, and then it would all be sorted'. He does not really expect me to do this, but he has obviously had the thought. From my perspective, I would be far more furious and hurt to reieve an unexpected call from the OW instead of hearing it first hand from my H. Again, thanks for offering your opinion, it is appreciated.
lonelybird Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 Maybe you should adopt him, not marry him, he acted like a child. Marriage vow is serious stuff. Since the day he made that vow, he is responsible for his family and his wife. If he cannot take responsibility for his OWN vow, how can you know he will be in the future with you? Is this familiar? No woman can conquer his heart BUT ME. IS that vow all lying "through thick and thin"? If you really want to have future with him, please for his wife's sake and mercy, don't contact him anymore until he divorce her.
LucreziaBorgia Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 He may love you, but his love for you does not outweigh his love for himself and his sense of self preservation. If his love for you was greater, he would divorce his wife and be with you. Unfortunately it isn't. He does not want to be the 'bad guy' in the situation by being the one to initiate a divorce, nor does he want to be seen as the type of father who abandons his child for a piece of ass (even if that isn't the case, it won't stop him from being afraid that people - including his child when the kid gets older - will see it that way). As long as his wife chooses to stay married to him, he will stay with her. I expect that even if he did get caught, he would still stay with her. Looks like your chance at happiness lies entirely in his wife's hands. Since he doesn't want to 'hurt' her, then it looks like you'll be waiting a long, long time.
Author april sunshine Posted June 6, 2007 Author Posted June 6, 2007 LB....I suppose time will tell, it will however be limited, as I won't be prepared to wait indefinately. I can love him and walk away if need to as I am also mindful of self-preservation, and I recognise how destructive this situation will potentially be. I have a feeling that it could go either way...
Remy Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 When I suggested that you could tell the wife I wasn't suggesting you do it as the OW. You could do it anonymously. It would still obviously be a great shock to the BW. But I think it would be kinder than letting the affair go on and on with MM being less and less discreet. The more time that elapses before BW finds out the more betrayed I imagine she will feel. Having read some of the responses on this board from BW the level of distress caused by finding out about an affair seems to be immense. Why prolong the process? I agree having a young child involved is a concern. However if you and MM are in control of when BW finds out then you have some chance of minimizing the damage. Having a BW finding out at any stage means you are totally unprepared for the fall out. Why not plan it and do it - the sooner the better for all concerned.
Author april sunshine Posted June 6, 2007 Author Posted June 6, 2007 When I suggested that you could tell the wife I wasn't suggesting you do it as the OW. You could do it anonymously. It would still obviously be a great shock to the BW. But I think it would be kinder than letting the affair go on and on with MM being less and less discreet. The more time that elapses before BW finds out the more betrayed I imagine she will feel. Having read some of the responses on this board from BW the level of distress caused by finding out about an affair seems to be immense. Why prolong the process? I agree having a young child involved is a concern. However if you and MM are in control of when BW finds out then you have some chance of minimizing the damage. Having a BW finding out at any stage means you are totally unprepared for the fall out. Why not plan it and do it - the sooner the better for all concerned. Remy, I actually think that I will deserve any fall-out that is coming my way. I had never thought of any kind of anonymous 'tip-off', my first thought is that it could be very cruel (on top of all the other cruelty I have thrown in this poor womans direction). Surely if someone has to find out such a terrible thing, it would be better coming from someone who could answer all the questions she will undoubtedly have? An 'anonymous' person would be so cold.... I do agree that she should be told fairly soon though, it is like some awful race against the clock, with me feeling sick about the fact that she will find out before MM decides to tell her. I also worry that he will (for whatever reason) decide not to tell her, and she will find out anyway....cell ph bills, someone mentioning that they saw him with me at lunch....more then once, etc, etc... I have warned him about things that women look for if they are suspicious, ie, gym, cell ph calls, emails, new hair do, new clothes, unexplained time away from work, home late, being distracted, smell of perfume etc.....all of these things have been an issue....No wonder she questions him.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 It is interesting that you suggest I offer to speak with W myself....he has jokingly said to me 'sometimes I wish you would just pick up the phone and call her, and tell, and then it would all be sorted'. He does not really expect me to do this, but he has obviously had the thought. I imagine there was more truth than jest in his statement. It obviously isn't that he doesn't want to hurt his wife its that he doesn't want the consequences. There is no way to spare her the pain of betrayal. Simply sit down and have a nice logical discussion, explain what you have told us rationally. Let her know how long the two of you have been discussing the end of her marriage and how you hope that she doesn't take it personally. Maybe you could ask that all communication with him go through you so that he won't have to endure the pain of his consequences. I can't remember the timeline and how old your child is but I'm guess that they will make perfect playmates. I agree with LonelyBird, adopt him, he is no man despite his age.
BurriedAlive Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 All along, my xMM always said that W would kick is a$$ to the curb if she ever found out. Well, 2 months after D day, she hasn't. A person just never really knows how they will react until they are actually in the situation. So, your MM has to tell W himself. I realize that he doesn't want to hurt her but what he is doing is hurting far more than if he is just honest with her. Or maybe, he may want to consider leaving her for other reasons, keeping you a secret and then "coming out" with you in a few months time. That way W may think you were together when the marriage ended but she will never know for sure.
Author april sunshine Posted June 6, 2007 Author Posted June 6, 2007 All along, my xMM always said that W would kick is a$$ to the curb if she ever found out. Well, 2 months after D day, she hasn't. A person just never really knows how they will react until they are actually in the situation. So, your MM has to tell W himself. I realize that he doesn't want to hurt her but what he is doing is hurting far more than if he is just honest with her. Or maybe, he may want to consider leaving her for other reasons, keeping you a secret and then "coming out" with you in a few months time. That way W may think you were together when the marriage ended but she will never know for sure. BA....I have had that thought myself (re 'keeping me' only to 'come out' at a later stage). I think that also has to do with the whole 'I'm not trying to hide her' (in preparation for any possible confrontation) because he has said that the minute she hears my name the marriage will be over. There had been difficulties in the marriage prior to me coming along, and he has spent more than a few nights sleeping at the office or his brothers house. He tells me that he would like to let his marriage 'run it's natural course', as it was ambivalent from both MM and W as to wether it would continue before I came along anyway. When he is staying at the office he does not ask to come and see me.....he will call me, but the intimacy is not happening now....my sense is that he is trying to let his marriage be resolved without having the R he has with me interfere with that process. He has told me that he never wants me to feel responsible for him divorcing,(should that happen) as it was almost certainly on the cards anyway....and that the difference for him is that he is now less motivated to fix the marriage. What confuses me is the 'openess' of our contact; it seems to be in contrast to 'letting the marriage run it's course'. He has also said to me (to refer to an earlier post) that he does not care what his family or friends will think of him if he leaves W for me, that it will be their problem if they can't accept it, and that if his contact with them is reduced it wont matter because he will have me. He does not, however, want people to blame me because he does not think that I am responsible for any decision he might make to end his marriage. To respond to those of you who have suggested that I 'adopt' him.....I don't think that comments like this are at all helpful. I realise that I will be getting some negative feedback here, and I am quite happy to read and consider anything that people have taken the time to write. Ironically, comments like these are just as childish as you are acusing MM of being, and really just serve to devalue other more sensible comments you have contributed.
torranceshipman Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 Sorry, but I think that was a harsh response to LonelyBird. He IS acting like a child...if the MM loves you this much, why would he still be sneaking around, not wanting to be the bad guy, joking about you doing his dirty work, basically not facing up to his responsibilities, etc? I think thats because he loves you, but like Lucrezia says, he loves himself more. I also think he doesnt respect you or his W...and the whole point of getting married is to take those vows incredibly seriously and committing to your family. If he wasn't completely happy with this woman he should never have married her, but he's created a bad situation now, and seems like too much of a coward to get himself out of it (despite talking a mean game). He is acting like a child for all the reasons given above...and LonelyBird wasn't flaming you at ALL by saying that, it was just a bit of well mean tough love, as it were, that I also totally agree with. I think you should give this guy a very short deadline. If he doesn't meet it, fine, walk away. And then he can do things to his own timetable but you don't have to put up with all this crap. And despite what you may think, a lot of the posters here (including me) want to help you, but these stories have been told so many times, telling you what you want to hear wont help anyone, but a little bit of a reality check will. I took a few of those myself from LSers when I was in a situation very similar to yours, and boy, am I grateful for the advice as it got me out of a crap situation VERY quickly. Good luck!
BurriedAlive Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 In spite of everything I went throught with my xMM and everything I have read on LS, this story seems a little different than everyone elses. It takes a lot of courage to end a marriage, having ended a marriage myself. AS, your MM has to get there himself. He really seems to love you and where you are not being intimate gives your MM a little credibility. I think if I were in your shoes, I would make it clear to MM that you want to be with him and that you will wait for him for a little while. Set a deadline in your head though because you don't want your story to turn into a story similar to most of the rest of us OWs here on LS. Good luck! I hope it all works out for you.
Author april sunshine Posted June 7, 2007 Author Posted June 7, 2007 I don't mean to be at all harsh in my responses, and I am sorry if I have offended anyone. I genuinely appreciate the advice people have taken the time to offer, and I should be more understanding that peoples 'styles' are different.... April
Author april sunshine Posted June 7, 2007 Author Posted June 7, 2007 In spite of everything I went throught with my xMM and everything I have read on LS, this story seems a little different than everyone elses. It takes a lot of courage to end a marriage, having ended a marriage myself. AS, your MM has to get there himself. He really seems to love you and where you are not being intimate gives your MM a little credibility. I think if I were in your shoes, I would make it clear to MM that you want to be with him and that you will wait for him for a little while. Set a deadline in your head though because you don't want your story to turn into a story similar to most of the rest of us OWs here on LS. Good luck! I hope it all works out for you. B.A.... I have decided to set a date for myself....but I am not sure how long I should wait. I really don't want to wait too long, but I am also mindful that I have a tendency to be very impatient as well. Having never been in a situation even remotely similar to this before, I'm not sure what a reasonable time-frame would be, surely longer than 5 or 6 mths would be unreasonable? Even that sounds like a very long time....or am I just being impatient again? I am quite pleased that intimacy is not going to be an issue until the situation is resolved one way or another, and it is reassuring that he is comfortable with this, saying that the intimacy is such a small part of the picture for him, and that just having me back in his life is the most important thing. He really does try to consider how I am coping and how I am feeling.....he does not want to hurt me and says that he will 'always be gentle with my heart'. I have also ended a marriage and know that it is one of the more difficult situations a person could ever go through (ironically, I remember thinking that the fact my husband cheated made my decision much easier, as things were not going so well anyway, and because he did this, there was really nothing to cry about afterwards anyway.)....so I am trying to be sensitive about this issue, particularly because of our different personalities; I am very assertive, straightforward and confident, whereas he is incredibly shy (believe it or not!), very sensitive, and far less confident than me in some ways. However, knowing me as well as he does, he will be very aware that I am one of the least patient people he is likely to come across, and I know he will be thinking about this....
Recommended Posts