NoIDidn't Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 The following is my opening post. Where do you see protecting the BW/BH? I see it as affording him/her the opportunity of getting checked for STDs. If they test positive, they can get treated and stop any further infection. Part of the BH/BWs action would be to ensure the MM/MW also gets tested for same, once again stemming further infection. C'mon Trial. You know what he meant. Silly goose. He was talking about the re-direct you gave to those of us engaging in the thread-jack (my apologies, too). You DID, in fact, make this question about informing the BS in the event of STDs. And, yes, the opening post makes no mention of it because it didn't start out about STDs. Add in a societal obligation to stem the tide of STDs and maybe motivation to tell might become a little stronger. For those that might be on the verge of exiting an affair, maybe this might give them one more reason to do so, along with their existing reasons. There is also a societal obligation to fidelity, but we don't see cheaters lining up to keep that obligation either. STDs will not make a cheater tell. Why do you think so many BSs find out when they make a trip to the doctor about that strange itch, odor, rash, or just a plain ole check-up and get "the news"? Because the cheating, sneaking pair didn't bother to tell them (and I am sure that they knew long before the BS went to the doctor)!! If they didn't care of the BSs emotional health, what makes anyone think they are going to do anything about the person's sexual, reproductive, or physical health? Appealing to decency does nothing for those involved in affairs, they feel totally justified for keeping things from the betrayed. Why should an STD be anything different?
TogetherForever Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 So every one involved in an affair (or about to enter one) needs to get together & inform each other that an affair is about to happen & to make everyone aware of any& all risks. That includes the husband, wife, ow/om.
Author Trialbyfire Posted June 7, 2007 Author Posted June 7, 2007 So every one involved in an affair (or about to enter one) needs to get together & inform each other that an affair is about to happen & to make everyone aware of any& all risks. That includes the husband, wife, ow/om. The perfect solution!! Simplicity is so elegant...
Author Trialbyfire Posted June 7, 2007 Author Posted June 7, 2007 C'mon Trial. You know what he meant. Silly goose. He was talking about the re-direct you gave to those of us engaging in the thread-jack (my apologies, too). You DID, in fact, make this question about informing the BS in the event of STDs. And, yes, the opening post makes no mention of it because it didn't start out about STDs. There is also a societal obligation to fidelity, but we don't see cheaters lining up to keep that obligation either. STDs will not make a cheater tell. Why do you think so many BSs find out when they make a trip to the doctor about that strange itch, odor, rash, or just a plain ole check-up and get "the news"? Because the cheating, sneaking pair didn't bother to tell them (and I am sure that they knew long before the BS went to the doctor)!! If they didn't care of the BSs emotional health, what makes anyone think they are going to do anything about the person's sexual, reproductive, or physical health? Appealing to decency does nothing for those involved in affairs, they feel totally justified for keeping things from the betrayed. Why should an STD be anything different? Here is my redirect. There's no reference to protection in it either: Before we get too far off-topic, I would like to bring this discussion back to the opening position of this thread started by myself, as a betrayed spouse. The opening position is that the OW/OM should tell the BW/BH for the purposes of allowing them to get checked for STDs. While everyone may want to believe it's only a one on two situation, many times, unbeknownst to the two it can be a one on many situation. The balance of the reasons of who is responsible for the affair, the conditions for why the OW/OM would tell such as revenge or otherwise, are incidentals within this discussion. This is a discussion about disease transmission and a societal obligation to stem the outbreak. -edit: Btw, I am also guilty of off-topic comments so please don't feel that I am pointing any fingers. I fail to see why all OW/OM should be painted with the same brush stroke of having zero decency left to them. When they exit the affair, many of them redeem themselves, to themselves.
NoIDidn't Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 I wasn't the person asking about protecting the BS, Gregsbad was. And just because you didn't actually use the word protection, doesn't mean it wasn't implied. It is strongly implied as a way of making sure that the BS knows that they may or may not have something. If you keep your affair a secret, how will she/he ever know to have herself/himself checked out for potentially life-threatening diseases? I did however miss the part about it being at the end of the A (I said I hadn't read the whole thread yet - still haven't - no excuse, I know). But I stick by what I have said. End, beginning, middle, what have you, I doubt very seriously that an OP is going to tell the BS for their health, maybe mostly for revenge and a little for their health. And please don't wrongly re-word what I have stated. No where in this thread have I said that OPs have no decency left in them. I said don't try to appeal to their decency. And that is TOTALLY different from saying "they have no decency".
Author Trialbyfire Posted June 7, 2007 Author Posted June 7, 2007 I wasn't the person asking about protecting the BS, Gregsbad was. And just because you didn't actually use the word protection, doesn't mean it wasn't implied. It is strongly implied as a way of making sure that the BS knows that they may or may not have something. I did however miss the part about it being at the end of the A (I said I hadn't read the whole thread yet - still haven't - no excuse, I know). But I stick by what I have said. End, beginning, middle, what have you, I doubt very seriously that an OP is going to tell the BS for their health, maybe mostly for revenge and a little for their health. And please don't wrongly re-word what I have stated. No where in this thread have I said that OPs have no decency left in them. I said don't try to appeal to their decency. And that is TOTALLY different from saying "they have no decency". Oh Snap NID.... Remind you of anyone else looking for greater motivation within someone else's post. Let's agree to disagree on this. I'm not here to push you off your opinion log.
GregsBad Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 The following is my opening post. Where do you see protecting the BW/BH? I see it in your sentance below: "If you keep your affair a secret, how will she/he ever know to have herself/himself checked out for potentially life-threatening diseases? " You DID appraoch the "Inform the Wife" issue from the angle of being concerned for the wifes well-being. Am I wrong? I read that as you suggesting that the OW/OM inform the betrayed spouse about the affair - out of concern for the health of the betrayed spouse. Then later in your thread, you introduced the responsibility of the cheaters to help stem the tide of STDs, as in a general civic sense. I read that as you suggesting that the OW/OM inform the betrayed spouse about the affair - out of concern for the population in general - to help stem the tide of STDs. I agree that it would be a "right thing to do", to enable the wife to get checked. I agree that it's a "right thing to do", to help stem the tide of STDs. It's idealistic and unrealistic and I doubt that any of us cheaters are gonna blow the whistle - not for those reasons anyway.
GregsBad Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 By the way are you a man or a W? .... are you involved in a lesbian rel? Awwww jeeesh! Thanks for giving me a chance to straigten that out! I'm a man ... I like girls. If I were a woman ... then Yes! I would be a lesbian. A good lesbian!
Author Trialbyfire Posted June 7, 2007 Author Posted June 7, 2007 I see it in your sentance below: "If you keep your affair a secret, how will she/he ever know to have herself/himself checked out for potentially life-threatening diseases? " You DID appraoch the "Inform the Wife" issue from the angle of being concerned for the wifes well-being. Am I wrong? I read that as you suggesting that the OW/OM inform the betrayed spouse about the affair - out of concern for the health of the betrayed spouse. Then later in your thread, you introduced the responsibility of the cheaters to help stem the tide of STDs, as in a general civic sense. I read that as you suggesting that the OW/OM inform the betrayed spouse about the affair - out of concern for the population in general - to help stem the tide of STDs. I agree that it would be a "right thing to do", to enable the wife to get checked. I agree that it's a "right thing to do", to help stem the tide of STDs. It's idealistic and unrealistic and I doubt that any of us cheaters are gonna blow the whistle - not for those reasons anyway. Checking for STDs, is no real protection to the wife. You've already allowed the chickens out of the chicken coop... Protecting the wife is telling her before the affair has begun, similar to the completely elegant suggestion of TogetherForever. Not once have I stated that it would be the only reason. As clearly stated, there's no such thing as a completely altruistic person. Stop inferring more into what I've posted. Remember, two can play that game and it turns into a circular argument...
GregsBad Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 GB wrote: But don't rat on your partner in crime, the OTHER crook, the one you love. That doesn't make much sense. Not coming clean because you're also guilty seems very cowardly. Since you used the word "crook", lets look at it this way. A friend of yours robbed someone and beat them up enough to put them in a hospital. You helped by holding a gun on them. Should you just stay quiet about the whole thing? Is it wrong to rat out your friend because you were a part of it? But in your analogy it would NOT be just my friend who was guilty as hell. I held the gun! I participated. If I were to ever conspire to do such a cowardly thing, which I wouldn't, it would be even more cowardly to turn on my partner. What I did with my GF - the affair - was cowardly and dishonest. We snuk around - hid and lied to everyone. But I still lover her. And it hink I'd be more cowardly - even chicken sh*t - to suddenly get righteous and tell on her. And no offense to GregsBad, but it sounds like you're not telling because you're still holding out hope that you can get her back. Yes Sherlock! - You're such a sleuth! I love her. I would love to have her for my own. But not like that! And not to her! Ratting (in my case) would be a sick form of control. I've stepped out of the the sphere of influence. If she ever leaves him now, it's gonna be of her own free will. To TBF: I certainly would like for the husband to be enabled to get himself checked out for STD's - but I'll never rat on her for THAT reason. FWIW: I don't have any STDs
Author Trialbyfire Posted June 7, 2007 Author Posted June 7, 2007 GB wrote: But don't rat on your partner in crime, the OTHER crook, the one you love. But in your analogy it would NOT be just my friend who was guilty as hell. I held the gun! I participated. If I were to ever conspire to do such a cowardly thing, which I wouldn't, it would be even more cowardly to turn on my partner. What I did with my GF - the affair - was cowardly and dishonest. We snuk around - hid and lied to everyone. But I still lover her. And it hink I'd be more cowardly - even chicken sh*t - to suddenly get righteous and tell on her. Yes Sherlock! - You're such a sleuth! I love her. I would love to have her for my own. But not like that! And not to her! Ratting (in my case) would be a sick form of control. I've stepped out of the the sphere of influence. If she ever leaves him now, it's gonna be of her own free will. To TBF: I certainly would like for the husband to be enabled to get himself checked out for STD's - but I'll never rat on her for THAT reason. FWIW: I don't have any STDs You're still an addict. You can't be cured without your own personal participation. This is why you feel loyalty towards her and see it as a form of highschool ratting out. Social conscience or highschool ratting. Define yourself GregsBad.
GregsBad Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 You're still an addict. You can't be cured without your own personal participation. This is why you feel loyalty towards her and see it as a form of highschool ratting out. Social conscience or highschool ratting. Define yourself GregsBad. You're right that I'm addicted. I'm totally screwed up in my heart over her and this six year plus affair. And I do feel loyalty towards her. Do you feel like a sleuth for figuring this out? I don't think that exposing what we did, to her husband, will fix any of my problems. I'm working on them. And I am defining myself, but thanks for the thought.
crazy_grl Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 GB wrote: But in your analogy it would NOT be just my friend who was guilty as hell. That was exactly the point, because in an affair, the OW/OM is guilty too. An OW/OM is an active participant in the betrayal, but not the primary offender, hence the analogy that the friend was the one doing the damage but you helped him out. I held the gun! I participated. If I were to ever conspire to do such a cowardly thing, which I wouldn't, it would be even more cowardly to turn on my partner. You're looking at this from a point of view of how the person you told on (your exMW) would see you not how the "victim" (her H) would. If you were to blame the crime completely on your friend, that would be cowardly, but in my example, the person doing the ratting out would also have to face prosecution and having their dirty deed revealed. The only reason to keep quiet is to avoid the consequences and keep the friend on your side. These are the same reasons you seem to keep quiet about your A. You didn't answer my question of whether you'd be relieved if someone involved in the crime turned in the person who put you in the hospital. Can't you put yourself in the H's shoes? What I did with my GF - the affair - was cowardly and dishonest. We snuk around - hid and lied to everyone. So is continuing to hide it because you want to get her back. But I still lover her. And it hink I'd be more cowardly - even chicken sh*t - to suddenly get righteous and tell on her. Yes Sherlock! - You're such a sleuth! I love her. I would love to have her for my own. Go sleuth yourself and realize that these two statements don't mesh. You want her back and don't want to piss her off by telling, so you've convinced yourself that it's more cowardly to tell than not to. Ratting (in my case) would be a sick form of control. I've stepped out of the the sphere of influence. If she ever leaves him now, it's gonna be of her own free will. It's kind of scary that you would have ever wanted her to leave not of her own free will. You seem to see telling the BS as a form of manipulation to get the MM/MW to yourself. Though I think you already know this, you need to realize that things almost never work out that way. Also, if that's your POV, I don't think there's going to continue to be a disconnect between us in this discussion. I certainly would like for the husband to be enabled to get himself checked out for STD's - but I'll never rat on her for THAT reason. Why not? You don't know how many other guys she might have cheated with or is about to cheat with. I guess the other posters were right that anyone who's knowingly an OW/OM isn't going to think of the best interests of anyone but themselves. If they were the type of person who would, there'd be no A.
scaredinlove Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 By telling the wife you are betraying the person you love. You are really isolating yourself. if you don't want the affair just walk way.I won't say I never wanted to tell the W, but I realised that it is not right. My bussiness is with MM. His W is his bussiness. Most time people involved in affairs will tell the W for revenge anyway.I don't agree with that at all. And to avoid STS all we have to do is use protection.Cheap and simple.
pricillia Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 Telling the wife is different for every situation... For me it was something that I felt had to be done... at the moment... Would I do things differently now that I have live through it? hmmmm not sure... He is still talking to me, after me telling... not sure where we stand but guys maybe I betrayed him or maybe I finally did something good... I am honestly not sure yet.
GregsBad Posted June 8, 2007 Posted June 8, 2007 That was exactly the point, because in an affair, the OW/OM is guilty too. An OW/OM is an active participant in the betrayal, but not the primary offender, hence the analogy that the friend was the one doing the damage but you helped him out. You're looking at this from a point of view of how the person you told on (your exMW) would see you not how the "victim" (her H) would. If you were to blame the crime completely on your friend, that would be cowardly, but in my example, the person doing the ratting out would also have to face prosecution and having their dirty deed revealed. The only reason to keep quiet is to avoid the consequences and keep the friend on your side. These are the same reasons you seem to keep quiet about your A. You didn't answer my question of whether you'd be relieved if someone involved in the crime turned in the person who put you in the hospital. Can't you put yourself in the H's shoes? So is continuing to hide it because you want to get her back. Go sleuth yourself and realize that these two statements don't mesh. You want her back and don't want to piss her off by telling, so you've convinced yourself that it's more cowardly to tell than not to. It's kind of scary that you would have ever wanted her to leave not of her own free will. You seem to see telling the BS as a form of manipulation to get the MM/MW to yourself. Though I think you already know this, you need to realize that things almost never work out that way. Also, if that's your POV, I don't think there's going to continue to be a disconnect between us in this discussion. Why not? You don't know how many other guys she might have cheated with or is about to cheat with. I guess the other posters were right that anyone who's knowingly an OW/OM isn't going to think of the best interests of anyone but themselves. If they were the type of person who would, there'd be no A. Thanks Crazy, But I still won't tell her husband any more. We both confessed once and went through self incurred personal tragedies of our own. Severe depression and other things that would be inuitively obvious to most others others here on this forum, even without saying it. We hurt a lot of people and hurt them deeply. Then, afte all that, we got back together like people running back into a burning building. I thought she would eventually leave him. She thought she would too. Yes, I was wrong, a liar and a coward. It was first of all very difficult for me to confess to my wife years ago. Then very very difficult to stop seeing the girl last year. I went through a lot to get to that point. Now ... it's over ... and telling her husband again ... and going through it all over. You're out of your mind ... and you don't know what you're asking. I think you're being idealistic and unrealistic. I still strongly suspect that most OW/OMs who tell are NOT telling for altruistic reasons. It's mostly about revenge and/or manipulation. Only a few rare exceptions to that general rule. If you were one of those exceptions then good for you. Bottom line: I DON'T think informing the wife/or husband is a good idea in most cases. Only in rare cases. If you ever want to tell, I strongly suggest you think it over long and hard first, maybe get some prefessional counseling and bring it up there. And being motivated by wanting the victim to be informed so as to get checked for an STD? It's absurd to think that concept will motivate something takes so much courage to do. Very few informers would be motivated for that reason. Not that they don't care about the spouse. But that's just not sufficient motivation. Once again TBF: I laud you for trying. But I don't think you'll make much headway nor stem any tides. Grazy Girl: You said: "I guess the other posters were right that anyone who's knowingly an OW/OM isn't going to think of the best interests of anyone but themselves. If they were the type of person who would, there'd be no A." Well yes! Many here have tried to make that point.
GregsBad Posted June 8, 2007 Posted June 8, 2007 By telling the wife you are betraying the person you love. You are really isolating yourself. if you don't want the affair just walk way.I won't say I never wanted to tell the W, but I realised that it is not right. My bussiness is with MM. His W is his bussiness. Most time people involved in affairs will tell the W for revenge anyway.I don't agree with that at all. And to avoid STS all we have to do is use protection.Cheap and simple. Exactly. If you love your lover, you'll see it as betrayal of your lover.
pricillia Posted June 8, 2007 Posted June 8, 2007 Maybe I did betray him and I had major major major guilt... and still do... but what if he was taking advantage of you... he was of me and I acted I still love him... just want the lies to stop...
Author Trialbyfire Posted June 8, 2007 Author Posted June 8, 2007 pricillia, take the route that makes you feel good about yourself.
crazy_grl Posted June 8, 2007 Posted June 8, 2007 Now ... it's over ... and telling her husband again ... and going through it all over. You're out of your mind ... and you don't know what you're asking. I think you're being idealistic and unrealistic. If you think it's better not to tell, don't. In your case, it seems you're not moving on. This is a bit off-topic, but I was thinking that telling might slam the door closed and force you to do so. But only you know your situation. I still strongly suspect that most OW/OMs who tell are NOT telling for altruistic reasons. It's mostly about revenge and/or manipulation. That may be true, but I don't get how you can argue that a person who does tell for the best interests of the BS is a coward. If they're not looking for revenge or manipulation, they could easily go away and pretend it never happened. It would take a lot of courage to tell. Not only are you exposing the MM/MW, you're exposing yourself for someone else's benefit. If you were one of those exceptions then good for you. No. I'm not nor have I ever been married or an OW. I'm addressing this discussion from the standpoint of what I would want if my SO was cheating. If you ever want to tell, I strongly suggest you think it over long and hard first, maybe get some prefessional counseling and bring it up there. That's good advice to any OW/OM. And being motivated by wanting the victim to be informed so as to get checked for an STD? It's absurd to think that concept will motivate something takes so much courage to do. Very few informers would be motivated for that reason. Not that they don't care about the spouse. But that's just not sufficient motivation. Uh... GB, what the heck? You said before that it was cowardly to tell. Now you say it takes courage... crazy Girl: You said: "I guess the other posters were right that anyone who's knowingly an OW/OM isn't going to think of the best interests of anyone but themselves. If they were the type of person who would, there'd be no A." Well yes! Many here have tried to make that point. That's why I said, "the other posters were right"... Maybe I did betray him and I had major major major guilt... and still do... but what if he was taking advantage of you... he was of me and I acted How bad is it to betray a person who betrayed you?
scaredinlove Posted June 8, 2007 Posted June 8, 2007 Maybe I did betray him and I had major major major guilt... and still do... but what if he was taking advantage of you... he was of me and I acted I still love him... just want the lies to stop... Priscilla, You did it because you thought it was the right thing to do at that point.Now you feel guilt because you realise that it wasn't the right thing. It is too late now , just learn from it and move on. I disagree with telling the wife for many reasons, one is because people do it for revenge. And if you really ,love the person you will be remorsefull and angry with yourself later. maybe you did it because you want to free yourself from him and couldn't,I am not here to judge you. But by reading your post I am even more convince that telling won't help anybody not even the wife. Belive me I felt like telling her many times , but I didn't because I knew nothing good would come out of it. I understand how you felt I just don't agree with it.
TogetherForever Posted June 8, 2007 Posted June 8, 2007 Sometimes, telling the bw about the affair will force a decision to be made. So, something GOOD can come out of telling about the affair.
whirlwinds_sister Posted June 8, 2007 Posted June 8, 2007 Who says anything about protecting the BS from STDs? I'm talking about stemming the continuance of an STD infection. Do you not feel that everyone has a societal obligation to do this? Not if you are not infected with an STD. Why would I tell the W in the interest of getting tested if I know both he and I are clean? To me this operates under the assumption that people in an A are serial cheaters and that is not always the case. You don't all of a sudden self-perpetuate an STD NEITHER of you had just because you are engaged in an act that is inappropriate. FWIW, when my A disengaged, I assumed the worst of course and asked him outright. He was military, so I was satisfied given current copies over a period of time of his health evals that he was not a risk to my H, nor was I a risk to his knowing my own status--we truly were two individuals who had been faithful to our marriages and we met when we were both seperating and on our way to a D--we had intentions to be in a monogamous relationship together when our respective situations were settled--there was none of this serial cheating going on. So what motivation do I have now? What would the W be exposed to if neither one of us had anything to begin with and given we both were heading for D at the time? I just think there are a lot of assumptions made about A's that aren't necessarily true--the 'reasons why' thread coupled with the many people here, male and female who still express love for this ONE person should be indication that these are not all individuals who are in serial situations. Many A's as I have seen truly are people on the verge of getting out and naturally moving on to another relationship and then for whatever reason get cold feet. This also gets back to painting someone in a total picture based on an A. Having been in an A does not define someone, anymore then any other mistake or failed relationship in one's life defines someone. And let's face it, the W's or H's in many of these situations are not angels straight out of the gates of heaven. *SOME* have been insufferable b*tches/a$$es to their spouses, but think the (wo)men should suck it up and take it and still love them unconditionally. From what I've seen, and speaking from personal experience, the first part to repairing any M is to take a good hard look at yourself and that includes the spouse who was cheated on. The cheater bears full responsibility for acting out in that way, however that does not absolve the other side from where the relationship was PRIOR to the A. I've seen a few marriages dissolve not from the A, but from the issues still going unresolved that got to the A in the first place. BTW, I would not want to know if it was a one time thing that is now over and we are on the road to healing. IMO, that transgression is now between the spouse and God. As for serial cheating, imo those people always reveal themselves anyway so the person will find out. But the one time thing when people behave out of character or the marriage is ending...no, let it die and move on. Some things truly are better left unsaid. Kind of like not sharing every detail of relationships prior to meeting one's spouse.
scaredinlove Posted June 8, 2007 Posted June 8, 2007 Sometimes, telling the bw about the affair will force a decision to be made. So, something GOOD can come out of telling about the affair. but sometimes no decision is made even when all the parts know about it. In my case the W found about it ,and it is almost a yr later and no decision has been made. I don't seem to be able to walk alway ,she dosen't seem to make her decision of leaving or staying ,he cannot make a choice. No choice so far!Almost a yr later!!!!!! I am coming to the conclusion that no good comes out of the affair being brought to the open. In my marriage it hlped because my H is now exH, but I will have to live with his constant attacks, the stuff he tells people is amazing. I should have never told him about it, I should just have left. There is so much pain all over and the cicle dosen't end!!!!!!!! the best would not to have the affair, but if you gonna do it .Keep it a secret, even after it is over. If you want to end it and have the strengh to do it, just end it and never look back.And don't go telling the wolrd. In my personal story nothing good came out of it. Maybe I will think differently yrs from now ,but so far I am convinced that the best is not to tell.
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