Even the nice girls?

[Touche]

You're welcome. Btw, I loved post #168. I do so envy you right now. Thanks for your good wishes to all of us LS women.

 

Never settle. You don't have to. You can have the best. You deserve the best.

 

And so many on here deserve the best. It makes me wonder why they are willing to settle for less. (You know who you are!)

[burning 4 revenge]

Never settle. You don't have to. You can have the best. You deserve the best.

 

And so many on here deserve the best. It makes me wonder why they are willing to settle for less. (You know who you are!)

What does settle mean "goddess". I swear your attitude makes me want to puke

[Touche]

What does settle mean "goddess". I swear your attitude makes me want to puke

 

My attitude makes you want to puke? You have no idea what "settling" means?

 

That's sad.

 

Bye, everyone. I bow to the lowest common denominator.

 

It's been real. And it'ls been good. But it hasn't been real good.

[marlena]

I can't wait until I find a guy who actually "bores" me in the manner you describe.

 

 

Yes, I most certainly go for the "boring" type myself. You know, the kind of mature man that makes me feel secure and loved, a man who knows how to give and partake of love on an equal basis, one who does not play asinine mind games. This man will win my love and perhaps more importantly my respect and admiration. This I call fulfillment.

 

The type of man that likes to play mind games, IMO, is an immature fool and needs to grow up.

 

If my man feels that I am not meeting his needs, I much rather he just sit me down and talk to me about it rather than play some jerky game of hide 'n seek.

.

[marlena]

I must admit that I'm surprised by this assertion. So then explain how the women who chase the bad boy fit in your statement.

 

 

They are in dire need of pshycotherapy. I am not escluding myself but I am working on it! It's a self- destructive pattern that needs to be broken.

[serial muse]

I disagree. Anyone here will agree that at least 90% of men are very low-maintenance in the "emotional needs" category. Women need so much more (generally) emotionally than men. Just look at sex.

 

This is a really, really, really, really, fundamentally incorrect statement, Krytellan. I'm actually very surprised you've made it. Guys do have emotional needs, whether they are as up-front and willing to express them or not. But believe you me, if you think guys are incapable of massive drama, then that's only because you've never dated one. Try again.

[Trialbyfire]

This is a really, really, really, really, fundamentally incorrect statement, Krytellan. I'm actually very surprised you've made it. Guys do have emotional needs, whether they are as up-front and willing to express them or not. But believe you me, if you think guys are incapable of massive drama, then that's only because you've never dated one. Try again.

:lmao:

I have nothing to say beyond my emoticons...

[Pyro]

where you get this baloney from TBF? Women are ALWAYS interested in bad boys no matter their age. Its just that when women want to settle down and get married and have kids its only the "nice guys" who are willing to stick around. Once she squirts out a couple of pups then she'll have affairs with bad boys or get divorced and date bad boys again.

 

Oh brother.

 

I am glad that overall life is not this sadistic.

[sb129]

So there's really no such thing as a woman in a relationship with a very nice man just sometimes feeling that it's too easy? Never? You can yell at me and call me a woman hater or whatever, but I absolutely refuse to believe that not one female has agreed. As I said, not because of my opinion, but because it just doesn't make mathematical sense.

 

I am in a nice R with a very nice man and it IS very easy. And sometimes seems too good to be true. But after the sh**t I have been thru previously, it is heaven.

 

NJ, great post. I like aloros's stuff at the beginning of the thread too.

Serial Muse- thanks. I had to exercise the Golden Rule last night, and it was fine. Conflict resolved within an hour.

I feel sorry for some of the bitter people here who seem to categorise everyone negatively solely because of their gender. Its asking to be wrong. Life isn't like that.

[Woggle]

Men have emotional needs as well but it is easy to tell what they are and if you meet them he will give you 100% from him. Women on the other hand change their needs daily and if a man doesn't guess right daily based on her ever changing moods she will want to divorce him.

[serial muse]

Men have emotional needs as well but it is easy to tell what they are and if you meet them he will give you 100% from him. Women on the other hand change their needs daily and if a man doesn't guess right daily based on her ever changing moods she will want to divorce him.

 

Again, wrong on all counts.

 

Look, guys, do you really want to perpetuate this stereotype? Despite this "conventional wisdom," the reality is that men have needs that can be difficult to suss out, that can change daily and that keep their partners guessing and off-balance throughout the duration of the relationship.

 

This is perhaps not something that is easy to admit to, but it is nevertheless true. Frankly, I suspect I know far better what I'm talking about than you do.

[InsanityImpaired]

This is perhaps not something that is easy to admit to, but it is nevertheless true. Frankly, I suspect I know far better what I'm talking about than you do.

But that is probably because you are not a man. The external perspective in general is more constructive than the internal perspective.

[serial muse]

But that is probably because you are not a man. The external perspective in general is more constructive than the internal perspective.

 

You're right - I was trying to figure a way to say just that in my previous post, but you've expressed it for me.

 

The other thing I wanted to add was that Woggle himself is a case in point. He's quite high-maintenance, in his way...of course, sometimes we get the brunt of that here on LS. But changeable and moody day to day? Um...yeah. Pot, meet kettle.

[Woggle]

Again, wrong on all counts.

 

Look, guys, do you really want to perpetuate this stereotype? Despite this "conventional wisdom," the reality is that men have needs that can be difficult to suss out, that can change daily and that keep their partners guessing and off-balance throughout the duration of the relationship.

 

This is perhaps not something that is easy to admit to, but it is nevertheless true. Frankly, I suspect I know far better what I'm talking about than you do.

 

Just look at who tends to leave relationships more and who tends to nag more. Women for the most part are like a rubix cube and are damn near impossible to keep happy.

[ilmw]

Just look at who tends to leave relationships more and who tends to nag more. Women for the most part are like a rubix cube and are damn near impossible to keep happy.

 

:lmao::lmao: 'rubix cube'...love that one... It seems the only way to figure women out, is to read a book... just like the rubix cube...confusing..

[lindya]

And, as a man who is normally willing to provide these for his lover, can he not effectively measure the extent of the woman's desire by making her occasionally snap to attention and put forth honest effort into creating a dynamic? Because let's face it, if a man is no longer pursued and is subconsciously expected to continue to provide these things just to maintain status quo, isn't he missing out on focused attention he could be getting?

 

It's a tricky one, and I think any guy who gets into playing that "withdraw affection to get affection" trick needs to be very alert to his partner's signals and responses. The difficulty is that most of us like to believe we're great at reading other people, but in practice (and as demonstrated by common relationship problems) it doesn't always work out that way in practice.

 

Some women have been raised to be reserved and subtle in the ways they ask for affection - believing that it's important not to be "pushy" or "needy". Just as men believe they receive very mixed message from women (or, more correctly, from society) about what women want, women are subjected to those same mixed messages. We hear men talking about women being too independent on the one hand, too needy on the other. Most people are constantly striving to meet a good balance - and games, such as the one you're mentioning, tend to make people question themselves and throw them off balance.

 

If you're with a woman who's been taught to be fairly reserved ("men don't like needy, clingy leeches") and you suddenly withdraw the affection...then yes, she might well start putting more effort in for a short period of time, but I think it's a pretty fragile process. If, having suddenly started to demonstrate disinterestk, the guy doesn't respond to what might be overly subtle signals fairly quickly, however, then the woman might start feeling foolish, unattractive and believe that she's making matters worse by demonstrating affection. Then you perhaps get some sort of stand-off whereby both parties start feeling less and less attractive and appreciated, more and more inclined to withdraw,

 

I guess the game initiator should take responsibility for sorting out any communication problems that result from their partner being thrown off balance and withdrawing as a consequence of "the game". One of the difficulties is, of course, that men and women constantly believe the opposite sex is playing some sort of game with them - so identifying the real game initiator isn't all that easy.

 

In this context, though, you're talking about very consciously trying to manipulate your partner's behaviour by withdrawing effort/affection....so if it doesn't work out as you planned, hopefully you'll be able to take responsibility for that, and for putting matters right.

[alphamale]

I think that most reasonable people will agree that there are more high maintenance women out there than high maintenance men.

[norajane]

Wow, wow, wow. NJ, and Trial...two of the women of LS who I agree with the most! (Story, you too!) Unbelievable. You women really capture what REAL women think and feel. Mature women, not girls. You women rock. And you can really write (unlike me.)

 

Certain men on here (who shall remain nameless) will never understand where we're coming from. And they couldn't get women like us to save their lives. I mean let's face it. It's the truth. They just don't have what it takes to attract quality women. So they have to aim for the lowest common denominator. It's sad, really.

 

And NJ, you really, really get it about established couples. It's so true. Nothing is ever 100% certain. And that's what keeps it exciting. It's what keeps us wooing each other. The only difference is, is that in a good solid relationship you're only uncertain maybe 1% of the time. And it's that 1% of the time that makes you both woo each other.

 

In a dysfunctional relationship, you might feel uncertain 50% or more of the time. Who the hell wants THAT? Too much work.

 

Thanks, sweets. Let's hope all my accumulated knowledge does me some good one day.

[Pyro]

Men have emotional needs as well but it is easy to tell what they are and if you meet them he will give you 100% from him. Women on the other hand change their needs daily and if a man doesn't guess right daily based on her ever changing moods she will want to divorce him.

 

Its not always easy for a guy Woggle. Some guys are wishy washy and change their minds alot, just like there are some women as well, but a good woman is not like that.

[Storyrider]

I think that most reasonable people will agree that there are more high maintenance women out there than high maintenance men.

 

If "high maintenance" means more emotionally complex, then, yeah, I agree with you. But after a point, that is what makes us women, and that is why you like us. If all we needed to be happy was a beer and a football game, you guys wouldn't be so intrigued by us. We could be just like you, but where is the fun in that?

 

And if even healthy women are more "needy" than men, then again, I would say that a woman needing a man's strength and virility is part of what cements the bond between the sexes. It doesn't mean she isn't strong herself.

 

If we don't need you, then what is this whole game all about?

 

So it is all good.

[sb129]

Just look at who tends to leave relationships more and who tends to nag more. Women for the most part are like a rubix cube and are damn near impossible to keep happy.

 

 

Not this old chestnut again.

 

Broken record anyone?

[SadForever]

Some women don't want to "tame" a man.

 

I call my man my "knight in shining armor". I always have. He saved me from suicide. I was seriously contemplating it. No joke. He made me believe in love again. He made me believe in life again.

 

He offered his friendship and his help even after I told him I wasn't even interested in dating him since I had only recently separated from my ex-husband.

 

I won't bore anyone with the details but let's just say that no fairytale ever matched the reality of what I found in real life with this man.

 

Why the hell would I ever want to "tame" a "real" man? Why would any woman want to do that? There are too few of those these days as it is. They're an endangered species and I found one! Who wants some metrosexual whiner? They're all posers. Not the real thing. No real woman is going to want to "tame" a real man. A real man doesn't need taming, honey. A real man is what we real women have always wanted. But only a few of us are lucky enough to recognize one. And even fewer get to make a life with a real man.

 

I wish for all my wonderful LS sisters to find their real men this year.

 

And if any of you ladies are lucky to find a real man...trust me..you won't want to tame his ass! :love:

 

I feel the same way Touche.

 

Glad you found someone like that.

[Trialbyfire]

It's a tricky one, and I think any guy who gets into playing that "withdraw affection to get affection" trick needs to be very alert to his partner's signals and responses. The difficulty is that most of us like to believe we're great at reading other people, but in practice (and as demonstrated by common relationship problems) it doesn't always work out that way in practice.

 

Some women have been raised to be reserved and subtle in the ways they ask for affection - believing that it's important not to be "pushy" or "needy". Just as men believe they receive very mixed message from women (or, more correctly, from society) about what women want, women are subjected to those same mixed messages. We hear men talking about women being too independent on the one hand, too needy on the other. Most people are constantly striving to meet a good balance - and games, such as the one you're mentioning, tend to make people question themselves and throw them off balance.

 

If you're with a woman who's been taught to be fairly reserved ("men don't like needy, clingy leeches") and you suddenly withdraw the affection...then yes, she might well start putting more effort in for a short period of time, but I think it's a pretty fragile process. If, having suddenly started to demonstrate disinterestk, the guy doesn't respond to what might be overly subtle signals fairly quickly, however, then the woman might start feeling foolish, unattractive and believe that she's making matters worse by demonstrating affection. Then you perhaps get some sort of stand-off whereby both parties start feeling less and less attractive and appreciated, more and more inclined to withdraw,

 

I guess the game initiator should take responsibility for sorting out any communication problems that result from their partner being thrown off balance and withdrawing as a consequence of "the game". One of the difficulties is, of course, that men and women constantly believe the opposite sex is playing some sort of game with them - so identifying the real game initiator isn't all that easy.

 

In this context, though, you're talking about very consciously trying to manipulate your partner's behaviour by withdrawing effort/affection....so if it doesn't work out as you planned, hopefully you'll be able to take responsibility for that, and for putting matters right.

Love this post lindya. Games cause more games...and so it goes...away...

[BonneKarma]

I'm new to this forum and I'm sad to see there are so many here who buy into the stereotypes. Yes - all of them. Women are not so hard to figure out and not all men are cheating liars.

 

Moving on to the question at hand and trying to respond to 13 pages of posts:

 

A healthy relationship is about balance, sometimes it might be difficult to get to that point and sometimes you might have to work to get things back on track, but balance should always be the goal.

 

Both people in a relationship should provide affection and affirmation, both should also make an effort to stimulate and challenge their partner - not by pulling away - but by taking the relationship to new levels of understanding and intimacy and by maintaining the core of who they are.

 

I have actually been in relationships where I got bored. Why? Not because the guy didn't pull away but because he had the mistaken idea that I wanted to date someone who was a servant to me. It's great that when I'm sore from working in the garden my man will offer to draw me a bath and give me a massage. It shows he cares. But if that same sweet guy defers to me everytime a decision has to be made and consistently says 'I don't know what I want to do tonight, let's do whatever you want to do' he may think he's being nice but what he's really doing is not participating in your relationship.

 

Does that kind of make sense?

 

A woman wants a man who is comfortable and secure with himself, and while he doesn't allow himself to be a doormat, he is cares about her and wants to show it. In this way he pampers me sometimes and I pamper him sometimes, achieving balance. I cook dinner, he offers to do the dishes. See?

 

Dating a doormat is annoying because what attracted you to that person in the beginning seems to disappear and you're left with a shell of that man. You're left with a clone and with that you might as well be single.

 

It's true that sometimes relationships will plateau but you have to work towards seeking that balance again. There are many reasons this will happen and sometimes it might single that the other person is bored and thinking of moving on, but sometimes it could simply mean they're stressed about work or their family situation. Communication is the key here, not pulling away.

You say, 'look I've noticed you seem a little preoccupied lately and we're getting off balance here. Can you share with me what's going on?'

 

And then you deal with the answer. It's not about games it's about the reality that sometimes people get caught up in life and forget to slow down and take care of the simple things. There is also the reality that sometimes a relationship isn't working out, for whatever reason, but it's better to deal with that honestly then to play games to try to delay the inevitable.

 

A mature, self-confident woman is not hard to figure out. She wants to be loved and made to feel sexy and appreciated. She wants to spend time together doing things you both enjoy. She wants you to be faithful and committed to her. She wants you to communicate your thoughts and let her into your heart. She wants you to have a mind of your own and contribute to the relationship. She wants you not to freak out when she occassionally wants to go for dinner and dancing with the girls, she will respect you for being cool with that. She wants you to make love to her and share intimacy and sometimes she just wants you to throw her down on the bed and ravage her like you did when you were first dating.

 

I think mature, self-confident men are much the same, although I could be wrong. He wants to feel respected and appreciated for what he contributes to the relationship. He wants to spend time together doing things you both enjoy. He wants to know you are faithful and committed to him. He wants you to communicate honestly with him and let him know your heart. He wants you to have a mind of your own and be able to speak it without nagging or yelling. Sometimes he just wants to hang out with the boys and drink beer, and he will respect you for being cool with that. He wants to know you find him sexy and to throw him down on the bed sometimes and ravage him like you did when you first started dating.

 

Bottom line: games are not part of a healthy relationship. If you feel they're necessary maybe it means your relationship is one of those 'close, but no cigar' types. Move on, get comfortable with what you want and need and then when you're ready try again with someone who's on the same page as you.

 

And for the record - women who chase after bad boys are not mature and self-confident. I fell for a few in my early 20's and got put through the ringer. I've come a long ways since then (we're all just works in progress anyways).

 

 

Oh, that was a long response!!

[sb129]

Oh, that was a long response!!

 

 

But a very very good one. Totally agree.