tanbark813 Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 So I guess this is kind of the flipside of all the "Did I have sex with him too early?" threads that women tend to post. Massage Chick (MC) and I have been seeing each other for about 7 weeks now and have yet to have sex. We've done pretty much everything else. The oral sex is good and happens regularly--frequently, even. And while I like oral sex--both giving and receiving--as much as the next guy, it's just not the same. You don't connect with someone the same way as through intercourse (and even though that can be taken a number of ways I mean it in the figurative sense ). But in the past two weeks the lack of sex has become a bone of contention. It's been brought up three times--mainly by me--including tonight. MC said from the beginning that she doesn't like to just jump into bed with someone. She initially gave a ballpark time estimate of two months but I don't know how historically accurate that is. No girl has ever made me wait this long--even close to this long--and it was starting to take a toll. During the first few dates if the girl doesn't want to have sex, no problem. It's easy to not take it personally. But as time goes on, it becomes harder and harder to not take personally and not feel rejected regardless of what your rational mind says. I've told her this and told her I'm even starting to feel resentful. Her side of things is basically that she feels that she's not ready and likes to take relationships in stages. Tonight on the phone it got slightly more heated. Not a fight or anything intense, just more focused and discussed... I guess... if that makes sense... (I'm also drinking SoCo right now .) I reiterated my points and she said she felt pressured and that I'm not seeing her side of things. I responded by saying that I don't think she's seeing my side of things either. Her: "Well all of this is not making me want to have sex with you." Me: "It's not supposed to. I want you to want to on your own." Her: "I DO want to." Me: "If you wanted to you would." The whole conversation sucked even moreso because then I felt slimy for sounding like I'm trying to convince her. Who wants someone who finds it easy to NOT have sex with them? Where's the passion? At any rate, it ended with her saying she doesn't think things are going to work out. Fine. At this rate I don't know how long I could have held out anyway. I need sex to feel satisfied in a relationship. That's just how it is. So see, ladies, not all guys will freak out if you want to mount his bone and ride to glory. Some of us actually appreciate a girl with no hang-ups about sex.
sb129 Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 LOL. Mount the bone and ride it to glory! Love it. While I sympathise with you, I can KINDA see your GFs point, not in the waiting to have sex part- personally I find it really hard to wait, and if you are giving and receiving oral sex I think that you may as well go "all the way". What I can understand a little is this. My ex wanted sex ALL THE TIME. And if he didn't get it all the time (our R was tumultuous to say the least- hence me not wanting to jump him 24/7), he got narky, which turned me off even more. He was particularly bad when I was on prozac which totally destroys your libido. Instead of accepting that fact that I didn't want sex with ANYONE, he would go on and on and on, and was really unsupportive, which in turn, turned me right off. In fact the thought of him touching me now is Not that she is thinking that about you!!! Anyway Tan, I actually think you have been pretty patient with this chick ( at risk of sounding like a slapper, the longest I have waited is two weeks!!! eek!), but talking about it isn't going to make her want to sleep with you, in fact it seems to be having the opposite effect- despite you having every right to want to talk to her about it. I am tempted to suggest turning around, and being totally disinterested in sex and see how long she lasts, but that is gameplaying which I am not a fan of..... You could give it a go. It could have the old reverse psychology effect- make her think "he doesn't want me? Why not?" that old chestnut.
Author tanbark813 Posted May 30, 2007 Author Posted May 30, 2007 but talking about it isn't going to make her want to sleep with you, in fact it seems to be having the opposite effect- despite you having every right to want to talk to her about it. Yeah, that's the thing that sucks is that it's lose-lose. Either I bring it up and she feels pressured, or I keep my mouth shut and just bottle things up until I snap. I kept quiet about it for more than a month but it was getting to the point where I was thinking about breaking things off so I figured I might as well give her a head's up about where I stood. I am tempted to suggest turning around, and being totally disinterested in sex and see how long she lasts, but that is gameplaying which I am not a fan of..... Well it wasn't focused on that much in my original post but she called things off tonight saying that she didn't think it would work out. I actually was planning on turning down anything beyond kissing until she was ready, if we were still seeing each other, that is. It's kind of game-playing but honestly it feels like a tease if I go down on a girl and we don't have sex afterwards. Plus, it was getting to the point where it felt like I was having to beg for sex and at that point I don't even want head if that's all it's going to be.
champagne Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 She probably wanted to establish a closer emotional connection first. I don't think she had a hang-up about it, she just wanted to make sure it was a steady relationship instead of being at the casual dating stage. She wanted to be intimate on that level, making sure it was past the casual dating stage. I can understand that. Sorry, you kinda acted jerky and I can see why she'd want to end it. What's the big rush? You're still not having sex right now, either way, right? If you had let things develop naturally, instead of pressuring, you probably would have been intimate as you like very soon. Sex is not to be taken lightly these days, really, considering the STDs out there. I don't blame her for wanting to really get to know a man first. You should have tried things her way for once, you might have really gotten to know a great woman on an emotional and intellectual level first, and when you have a strong connection built up that way over time...the sex is better.
Author tanbark813 Posted May 30, 2007 Author Posted May 30, 2007 Well I had known her for 2 years before we even started dating so there was already somewhat of a connection/rapport established. And if voicing my opinion and feelings is acting "jerky" then so be it. I'd rather be a jerk than have no balls.
champagne Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 But you were pressuring her about sex over the phone. She even said she DID want to have sex. So I don't get what else needed to be said. "if you wanted to you would" is just an accusing statement. You were accusing her for not being ready in the past. She was saying that she wanted to in the near future, if you stopped arguing about it and took things naturally. You probably would have been laid next time if you had been more understanding over the phone. The way you handled it, I could see why she might have thought you were just after one thing.
Krytellan Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 I know what you mean TB. Regardless of what they say early in the relationship (when they want you to think they are "pure"), I've never had to wait that long either. In fact, it was three weeks with my current gf, and she IS pure and that was the longets time. After 7 weeks, regardless of what she says, I would start to be concerned about a flat-out lack of sex drive on her part. Maybe she just isn't so interested in sex... which seems to me the only explanation for waiting that long. And having been in a sex-less marriage, that is no fun. If after 7 weeks she hasn't build up enough passion/tension to jump you, then she's missing something in the sex drive department. Many women here will call me crazy and hypocritical, but so be it. We are human and we do what our passions tell us.
pelagicsands Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 So you're saying she doesn't want to take you for a ride, and she frequently gets you off when you're thinking about getting on? This is a hard one. I think she's blown it. You know, it really shouldn't have been too much for her to swallow. Sorry it isn't working out - her loss.
PositiveShine Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 Before any opinions are stated, I have to say I LOVE your "pissing excellence" quote. Wish I could use that one at work as a standard motivational thought at the end of all of my emails. Golden (excuse the pun) . . . anyway, moving onward . As a female and having been in your situation, I can definitely see both sides to this. How someone can set a specific amount of weeks/months to hold back seems mechanical, like a policy or law - not gauging intimacy and readiness on feelings/trust as it should be. But at the same time, that doesn't take away her right to set that standard for her relationships. Taking a step back from the "wait period", frustration, and resentment on both sides, it seems like you two weren't matched up properly as far as sexual encounters. She obviously sees actual intercourse as a big step (been there), whereas you took it as rejection/personally insulting (been there too). No amount of discussion is going to change either of your feelings, and you both have valid opinions, no matter how much you disagree with eachother. Question: Is there any chance there's something you aren't aware of about MC's dating/sexual history? She might be holding back due to a negative past experience. When I was in your shoes 2 1/2 years ago, I couldn't get WHY this guy didn't want to be physical and began to feel unattractive/unwanted after a couple of months - just like you. So it took 2-3 months to get things going (no conversations, didn't want the "obligated" route by any means), and nearly ended it before then. After some time I found out that this guy had next to no experience with women and was a virgin!! It explained a lot, but that info could've been conveyed a lot earlier so I'd be aware and more understanding. Never know what people have been through. Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of how you made it clear your relationships are based on sex and her "making you wait" like she's the devil woman for saying up front she likes taking her time. You knew from the get-go what the deal was. If it's not your style and being with her isn't worth waiting, then pack up and move on. You'll both find people who are better suited for your personalities and preferences. This post isn't just about getting laid, but also a big indicator of potential conflict on big issues down the road if you continued to date. Hope this was at least slightly helpful! Best of luck.
DanielMadr Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 Is she controlling in other areas of your "relationship"? I mean, do you feel she tries to manipulate you, control you, trying to have the upper hand? Girls who are interested in you for serious relationship hold off sex. Its a fact at least for majority. 7 weeks is a long time and you were not total strangers before. My best guess is she is not very sure about you or her. Is she lovey dovey or is it quite formal - detached commitment? I think if she would be interested (chemistry or baggage) she wouldnt wait that long or asked for commitment (the big lie: 'I promise, I will never die') if she is worried or tried to confied with problems. It may be she doesnt want you to see her naked - its pretty common, waiting to loose some weight. Or Old saying....'If you are not bonging her, somebody else does.' Bottom line: You are clearly not happy with lack of commitment or whatever. And if she is not the 100% ONE you would like to have kids with (best person in other departments) I would look somewhere else. Problems of this kind dont go away with time, they only grow and her not being "I love you so much but my priest would burn me" person.....you know.
lonelybird Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 If you are in marriage, you can DEMAND sex. but obviously you aren't married, so you have to wait I am afraid
DanielMadr Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 If you are in marriage, you can DEMAND sex. but obviously you aren't married, so you have to wait I am afraid Only a fool would demand sex, thats the whole point. You love each other, you have sex. end of story.
lonelybird Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 Only a fool would demand sex, thats the whole point. You love each other, you have sex. end of story. many husband would love to demand sex if they can what about those men who have sex with women, after that then gone? If they love the woman, they can wait until they are ready
DanielMadr Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 ...and if you are giving and receiving oral sex I think that you may as well go "all the way". Exactly. but... 2 months is a period needed for blood sample to show if its infected with HIV virus or not. May be she is afraid she has slim. But I dont understand why wouldnt she told him that. 'I attended gangbang party at Soweto.....'
DanielMadr Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 many husband would love to demand sex if they can what about those men who have sex with women, after that then gone? If they love the woman, they can wait until they are ready 'Many' is not his name. You dont trust him, fine. But dont wonder why he is so pissed off. Its called injustice. Ready for what? To fall in love? To trust him? These are certainly not the questions you want to be confronted with. Imagine your partner will have these doubts about you. Is she a virgin? I doubt it.
lonelybird Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 'Many' is not his name. You dont trust him, fine. But dont wonder why he is so pissed off. Its called injustice. Ready for what? To fall in love? To trust him? These are certainly not the questions you want to be confronted with. Imagine your partner will have these doubts about you. Is she a virgin? I doubt it. How can person LOVE another in 7 weeks? Most of time it is hormone ride. What do you know about a person in 7 weeks? Yes, trust. You have to confront with. so many players out there, you just cannot bet, can you? unless God tell you who are you going to marry...
lonelybird Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 You dont trust him, fine. But dont wonder why he is so pissed off. Oh, a real man's ego should not be that fragile
DanielMadr Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 How can person LOVE another in 7 weeks? Most of time it is hormone ride. What do you know about a person in 7 weeks? Yes, trust. You have to confront with. so many players out there, you just cannot bet, can you? unless God tell you who are you going to marry... 7 weeks and you dont know...well, there is something wrong. With him or with you. Even people who face the danger of death make decisions quicker. Wait a second....we all face the danger of death:confused: So many players and so many excuses..... not so many guys who have written on their forehead "I will never ever reject you no matter what you do, give or withhold". Fear of rejection this strong signifies baggage. Him not being psychologist, friend or her personal angel (they have no reproductive organs for a reason and they have wings to f@ck off once they help).
DanielMadr Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 Oh, a real man's ego should not be that fragile Sure when confronted with this, wussys ego implodes, jerks ego explodes. But please dont think "real" man wont take any damage, unless of course he dont give a f♠ck about her. Btw so called player will past this test with flying colours, because he couldnt care less
StartingOver07 Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 I don't get it. I can see waiting to have sex, but for me that would mean no sex. If she's regularly engaging in oral sex with you then I am not sure I understand the prohibition about intercourse. Doesn't add up for me. Is there something bigger going on that is possibly causing her to be nervous about intercourse?
DanielMadr Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 I don't get it. I can see waiting to have sex, but for me that would mean no sex. If she's regularly engaging in oral sex with you then I am not sure I understand the prohibition about intercourse. Doesn't add up for me. Is there something bigger going on that is possibly causing her to be nervous about intercourse? She's got penis tucked between her thighs. Switch the light on next time you go down on her, Tanbark.
nicki Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 Gosh, Tan, you sound just like me with an ex boyfriend. I was in the same situation, except reversed. I had the SAME conversations and thoughts you did! I felt like a horny sex crazed person for wanting a normal close part of a relationship. I can understand why you had that conversation with her. It was a good thing to give her a heads up about how you were feeling. In my opinion, she should have reiterated that she found you attractive and wanted to be intimate with you, and then explained why she was holding off and when you could expect to be together in that way. Seven weeks is a long time. But it's a VERY long time if you are engaging in foreplay, but no main course (or main intercourse:laugh:) Really, she could have held off for seven weeks by only kissing, hand holding, etc. Once the clothes fly off and oral is happening, it's cruel to make a guy wait more than one episode of that. To have it happen over and over is unbearable. What did she expect? Of course you are frustrated. You could try talking to her again, if you want. Draw her out by asking questions. Then she'll feel safe to share her feelings. Maybe she's waiting for an "I love you?" Bottom line. She wasn't out of line wanting to wait. But she was out of line to tease you by getting naked, engaging in oral, and then continuously say "No" to the next logical step of intercourse. Personally, I don't know how she did it. I have to hold off on taking the clothes off because I can't stop once I get going. Anyway, for what it's worth, I think you've handled it well so far.
Art_Critic Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 It sounds to me like she has created a line that must be crossed to be physically intimate.. whatever it is.. I think the problem right now is that this issue has become the center of your relationship.. You are saying that in order for the relationship to go forward you need sex. She is saying that in order for the relationship to go forward then no intercourse but she does provide oral sex. Stalemate unless on of you moves off your position. If she moves off her position she will feel like she moved too fast and should've waited and you made her do it.. If you move off your position you will feel put off and resent her somewhat tuill it boils up again.. I think you need to find out more about her sexual past and growing up.. She may have a real reason that is making her put off the act and if you push her into sex you might feel like a tard and damage any good that you both have together. Either way.. tug of war is not could for a 2 month old relationship.. tread carefully..
DanielMadr Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 Serious, realistic and not very romantic piece of advice: Never ever bring up the topic of sex. You wont solve anything on rational level being her "lover" not a therapist. Any mention of sex will make it worse and post poned. Stop obsessing about it. Go and build a tree house or something or chat up some other girl. It will make your mind less occupied with this problem and it will bring you the attitude "I couldnt care less", which will definetely bring you tons of sex. Read some threads here. SouthernT, Bridget Jones etc. will make it very clear for you whats going in her head - MESS. She doesnt want to be "sex object", she wants to be loved for her personality, so she takes sex out of equation. They need deep commitment first. They are terrified of rejection. Especially rejection after sex. I dont blame them but they dont realize they do more damage than good. They are waiting for 'I love you, I want relationship with you and I promise I will never die, sex or no sex'. You being realistic and not a liar wont say those words right? And on top of it. Would you date someone that insecure/complicated?
StartingOver07 Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 You being realistic and not a liar wont say those words right? And on top of it. Would you date someone that insecure/complicated? He already is!
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