lonelybird Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 I've seen many cheating post, feel I have to post this. Marriage is a tool for spiritual growth. Yes, God invented it, didn't just mean "when you feel like to stay, you stay, when you don't feel like to stay, and you leave". didn't mean "you should be controlled by your sex organ only". In the beginning we have chemical attraction, it is easy. But many people give up when the chemical period pass. There are lots of complexed issues I am sure, but it is because of these issues we grow as a people, both mentally and spiritually. If you are self-centred people, marriage can bring you out of your ME ME-shell. Why today's marriage fail so much? people are too self-centred, and abandon the good value system. what about me? what about me? what about me? Unless abuse exist in a marriage, people shouldn't strive for spiritual growth rahter than fulfill the chemical and sexual?
Enema Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 Marriage was created by "man". Whether a man or a woman came up with the idea is beyond me. I assume men originally created it as a way to firmly establish their property. That's beside the point though. If a marriage isn't working, either because of abuse, or simply because needs aren't being met, divorce is a very sensible option. To say that marriage creates spiritual growth (whatever that even is!) and you should stay together for that reason implies that you can't grow spiritually by yourself. You can continue being unhappy in a marriage and growing spiritually. I'll get out, be happy, single and grow spiritually. Thanks.
Author lonelybird Posted May 30, 2007 Author Posted May 30, 2007 Marriage was created by "man". Whether a man or a woman came up with the idea is beyond me. I assume men originally created it as a way to firmly establish their property. That's beside the point though. If a marriage isn't working, either because of abuse, or simply because needs aren't being met, divorce is a very sensible option. To say that marriage creates spiritual growth (whatever that even is!) and you should stay together for that reason implies that you can't grow spiritually by yourself. You can continue being unhappy in a marriage and growing spiritually. I'll get out, be happy, single and grow spiritually. Thanks. Being single and being married are different kind of challenge. When you are single, you should learn how to have a good relationship with yourself, to be content with yourself, know how to deal with loniness, and find out core value system. But being married is two persons now. you not only pay attention to yourself, but also pay attention to another, you come out from self-centreness to other oriented. It is important growth too. Many people stop to grow spiritually, when they only consider "what about my needs"? or "I should f*ck around, get what I need", This kind of behaviour totally emergy themselves in the flesh and sex, not spirituality.
quankanne Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 marriage is a tool for spiritual growth boy, you can say that again! I think it's much, much harder learning about and learning to accept yourself when you're in a marriage, because the other person becomes your mirror, in a sense. All those things you did before without a thought because they were an impulse, or felt *right* or just wanted to do ... those things you said or believed, too ... are seen in a whole 'nother light. And ideally, it helps you to grow spiritually. co-worker once said something interesting: We are responsible for getting our spouses to heaven. Not in the sense that what we do is directly responsible, but in how we model our love and caring and faith, and how that impacts THEIR spirituality. Kind of humbling to know that we have such an impact on another person, especially when we blaze independently through life! To say that marriage creates spiritual growth (whatever that even is!) and you should stay together for that reason implies that you can't grow spiritually by yourself. you can and do grow spiritually on your own, but being in a relationship with someone makes you look more carefully at yourself.
Wedded25 Posted June 3, 2007 Posted June 3, 2007 Atheist spoilsport weighing in ... almost 25 years of happy and stone-monogamous marriage widdout no god's nose in the mix ... Marriage is a tool for spiritual growth. Yes, God invented it ... Why today's marriage fail so much? people are too self-centred, and abandon the good value system.... Unless abuse exist in a marriage, people shouldn't strive for spiritual growth rahter than fulfill the chemical and sexual?.... But being married is two persons now. you not only pay attention to yourself, but also pay attention to another, you come out from self-centreness to other oriented. It is important growth too. If by "spiritual growth" you mean "blind obedience to the unjustified, undefended whims of an invisible superbeing who can't be proven but must be believed not only to exist, but to have a claim on all," I have to take issue with it. Also to the notion that nothing counts as "growth" unless a superbeing puts a validation stamp on it. Assuming this superbeing exists: What possible stake can he/she/it have in the outcome of my marriage? Does this superbeing stand to lose one bit of its power and standing if I put my tab in an "unapproved" slot? It's not superbeing who's going to wake up next to me at three in the morning wondering if a mistaken marriage has been made ... Mrs. W25 is. And imagine what would happen if I told Mrs. W25 the unspoken premise behind my newfound religious obedience: "You're not meeting my needs anymore, and there's this hot little 20-something blonde behind the counter at the liquor store who's very willing to meet them, but -- oops! -- there's this Big Invisible Daddy in the Sky who's threatening to give me an eternal fiery cosmic spanking if I go, so I'll stay with you." Surely I'd be correct in assuming she'd feel insulted rather than touched? I have no quarrel with the idea that a married couple should work together to grow in love for each other ... but superbeings, and those claiming to represent them on earth, don't have a monopoly on the good value systems needed to pull it off.
Moose Posted June 4, 2007 Posted June 4, 2007 Marriage is a tool for spiritual growth.Agreed. However....it can also be defined as a, "result".Yes, God invented it,You WILL get responses to this statement. Unbelievers, or those who's abandoned the faith will boast that men invented it.In the beginning we have chemical attraction, it is easy. But many people give up when the chemical period pass.Again....those who refuse....or abandon God's intentions fall into this catagory.Why today's marriage fail so much? people are too self-centred, and abandon the good value system. what about me? what about me? what about me?Societal norm. Like the days of Noah. Believers shouldn't be surprised about this.......they should be awake to it.Unless abuse exist in a marriage, people shouldn't strive for spiritual growth rahter than fulfill the chemical and sexual?I'm not sure that you're even sure what you wrote here. ALL should strive for spiritual growth.....no matter the circumstances.....Marriage was created by "man". Whether a man or a woman came up with the idea is beyond me. I assume men originally created it as a way to firmly establish their property.Do you believe in God?But being married is two persons now. you not only pay attention to yourself, but also pay attention to another, you come out from self-centreness to other oriented. It is important growth too.We must be more accurate about this. When married, two becomes one. Not, "two persons" in one. Follow that, and THEN....this shouldn't happen: Many people stop to grow spiritually, when they only consider "what about my needs"? or "I should f*ck around, get what I need", This kind of behaviour totally emergy themselves in the flesh and sex, not spirituality.I have no quarrel with the idea that a married couple should work together to grow in love for each other ... but superbeings, and those claiming to represent them on earth, don't have a monopoly on the good value systems needed to pull it off.Am I to assume that you have no soul? Is there anything that has ever kept you awake at night, (besides a physical ailment)?
Author lonelybird Posted June 4, 2007 Author Posted June 4, 2007 God is loving and kind, I don't know what you talk about, W55. Moose, you are right. These days when I look the cheating posts, many of them claimed that their spouse doesn't care about them, or abusive, or just for the sake of "lost chemistry", then for a second I thought maybe they had reasons to cheat:sick:. But Holy Spirit told me at that moment, it isn't right to cheat. God invented marriage, not just for good times, but also for bad times. Couples should work themselves, not just run whenever trouble come. It is a process people grow out of self-centreness and grow spiritual fruits. But many people concentrate on themselves too much, think about "what about me" all the time. Seem they don't know there are higher plan for all human beings. not just "fulfull my earthly needs, but seek to serve others, seek to be a better person, to be a spiritual person, like Jesus Christ". People who stuck on earthly needs never can understand spiritual connection with their spouse is much more beautiful, sex is much more fulfilling. Is your wife a believer, Moose? Did you pray for God's help? After marriage, husband's body is wife's. Wife's body is husband's.
pricillia Posted June 4, 2007 Posted June 4, 2007 I just don't think of marriage as you owning your husband or wife. Marriage is not just for spiritual growth, life is for spritual growth and marriage is a part of that for some. But you do not have to be married to grow in a spritual way. If a man or woman cheats, there could be many reasons, it does not mean that someone is selfish or does not love husband or wife. You can still grow with someone and not be married to them. as you live life experiences add to your growth... not just marriage
Author lonelybird Posted June 4, 2007 Author Posted June 4, 2007 I just don't think of marriage as you owning your husband or wife. Yes, that what I thought long before. But now I know that everything has to do with God, even between spouses and couples, even in the sex area. Cheat won't have good ending. they ignore and disrespect the covenant with God, and engage themselves in flesh desires. OW/OM doesn't just fight with wife or husband, they fight with God as well. Bible teach "a righteous man won't defile neighor's wife", not mention the neightbor is a righteous man whoes family is under protection of God When you married, when husband or wife wants sex, and the other should not hold back. If they do, it produce resentment and manipulation.
Wedded25 Posted June 4, 2007 Posted June 4, 2007 Am I to assume that you have no soul? Is there anything that has ever kept you awake at night, (besides a physical ailment)? If by "soul" you mean "noncorporeal being subject to eternal reward or punishment by a superbeing after one exits earthbound life," no, I don't have one. Wouldn't be able to keep up the "payments" imposed by religion as "creditor." However, if by "soul" you mean "conscience," yes, I do indeed have one. I've been awake at night over all manner of troubles not caused by a personal physical ailment -- my job performance, Mrs. W25's health, my worthiness to remain married after even a minor argument, my cats' health, the hit my budget will take after an expensive car repair ... all without benefit of a superbeing. Again, assuming this god exists, there are three possible positions he can take regarding our marriage: (1) He takes no interest in our conduct. Then we have to protect our marriage under our own steam. (2) He orders us not to sleep around. His presence and "love" are now redundant and superfluous -- we both know what it's like to feel emotional pain, and can easily imagine the outcome of inflicting it by cheating; should this fail, we can still observe the fallout. No superbeing needs to say cheating is hurtful for us to see that it is. Again, we have to protect our marriage under our own steam. (3) For whatever reason, he decides we can sleep around -- maybe even orders us to. It still hurts -- and doesn't hurt less because there's a supposed "divine" purpose behind it. Damn straight I'd question the quality of the alleged "love" of such a superbeing. Once again, we have to protect our marriage under our own steam.
Horse Posted June 4, 2007 Posted June 4, 2007 All suffering causes spiritual growth. You don't grow when you are content, because you don't have any motivation to change. You experience spiritual growth (or psychological) when you are not content. Actually... by that reasoning, infidelity could be said to cause spiritual growth.
Author lonelybird Posted June 4, 2007 Author Posted June 4, 2007 All suffering causes spiritual growth. . So true, I think my most obvious spiritual fruit is "endurance":p In spite of all that crap in this world, God is the only one pure, ultimate goodness, light, hope, love and faithfulness:love:. It is so wonderful that God give us the destiny. Just beautiful !
Author lonelybird Posted June 4, 2007 Author Posted June 4, 2007 (1) He takes no interest in our conduct. Then we have to protect our marriage under our own steam. . Not true. God is interested in every conduct of ours. HE cares about us. Many times HE talk to us and wants to guide us, we just ignore HIS voice because we are too pride. Actually God told us lots of things about how to achieve a wonderful marriage, how to have wonderful relationships, how to have an abundant and happy life. If we seek God, God would guide us and protect us, it is very true.
Road Rage Posted June 4, 2007 Posted June 4, 2007 Marriage is a too for spiritual growth Marriage is an excellent way to follow Christ`s command to "Come, take up your cross and follow me":rolleyes:
Author lonelybird Posted June 4, 2007 Author Posted June 4, 2007 Marriage is a too for spiritual growth Marriage is an excellent way to follow Christ`s command to "Come, take up your cross and follow me":rolleyes: Ha ha, funny It will turn to good and sweetness and deep satisfaction, I've seen many successful married couples in body of Jesus Christ:love:. There is a deep spiritual connection between them. But sleep around won't bring that kind of satisfaction
disgracian Posted June 4, 2007 Posted June 4, 2007 lonelybird - You do realise that Christian marriages fail at a higher rate than secular ones? In light of this I don't see much credibility in your claims that Jesus or God is essential for a successful marriage. http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm Cheers, D.
Jeffrey Posted June 4, 2007 Posted June 4, 2007 I'm an atheist and my marriage has nothing to do with a higher power nor did I marry to one day connect with a so-called higher power. My commitment and my children are more than reason enough. I've seen many cheating post, feel I have to post this. Marriage is a tool for spiritual growth. Yes, God invented it, didn't just mean "when you feel like to stay, you stay, when you don't feel like to stay, and you leave". didn't mean "you should be controlled by your sex organ only". In the beginning we have chemical attraction, it is easy. But many people give up when the chemical period pass. There are lots of complexed issues I am sure, but it is because of these issues we grow as a people, both mentally and spiritually. If you are self-centred people, marriage can bring you out of your ME ME-shell. Why today's marriage fail so much? people are too self-centred, and abandon the good value system. what about me? what about me? what about me? Unless abuse exist in a marriage, people shouldn't strive for spiritual growth rahter than fulfill the chemical and sexual?
Jeffrey Posted June 4, 2007 Posted June 4, 2007 No, even after marriage my body is my own. I find the viewpoint that it doesn't belong to me anymore almost insulting. God is loving and kind, I don't know what you talk about, W55. Moose, you are right. These days when I look the cheating posts, many of them claimed that their spouse doesn't care about them, or abusive, or just for the sake of "lost chemistry", then for a second I thought maybe they had reasons to cheat:sick:. But Holy Spirit told me at that moment, it isn't right to cheat. God invented marriage, not just for good times, but also for bad times. Couples should work themselves, not just run whenever trouble come. It is a process people grow out of self-centreness and grow spiritual fruits. But many people concentrate on themselves too much, think about "what about me" all the time. Seem they don't know there are higher plan for all human beings. not just "fulfull my earthly needs, but seek to serve others, seek to be a better person, to be a spiritual person, like Jesus Christ". People who stuck on earthly needs never can understand spiritual connection with their spouse is much more beautiful, sex is much more fulfilling. Is your wife a believer, Moose? Did you pray for God's help? After marriage, husband's body is wife's. Wife's body is husband's.
Author lonelybird Posted June 5, 2007 Author Posted June 5, 2007 lonelybird - You do realise that Christian marriages fail at a higher rate than secular ones? In light of this I don't see much credibility in your claims that Jesus or God is essential for a successful marriage. http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm Cheers, D. THAT because they didn't follow advises of Holy Spirit and guidance of God.
Author lonelybird Posted June 5, 2007 Author Posted June 5, 2007 No, even after marriage my body is my own. I find the viewpoint that it doesn't belong to me anymore almost insulting. There are certain uncomfortableness when you transfer from self-centreness to other oriented serving spirit. If all married people get this, they will have a happy marriage
disgracian Posted June 5, 2007 Posted June 5, 2007 THAT because they didn't follow advises of Holy Spirit and guidance of God. And the non-Christians did? Seriously, how do you account for the fact that your group has a lower success rate even with this supposed great advantage of God & Jesus? I also find it rather disingenuous that you can so flippantly assess the reasons for the failures of all these marriages without knowing the circumstances behind any of them. It seems to me as though you are just making it up as you go along. Cheers, D.
Author lonelybird Posted June 5, 2007 Author Posted June 5, 2007 And the non-Christians did? Seriously, how do you account for the fact that your group has a lower success rate even with this supposed great advantage of God & Jesus? I also find it rather disingenuous that you can so flippantly assess the reasons for the failures of all these marriages without knowing the circumstances behind any of them. It seems to me as though you are just making it up as you go along. Cheers, D. I don't want to argue with you here. I don't go along, I saw. you do whatever suit you. good luck
disgracian Posted June 5, 2007 Posted June 5, 2007 You saw each marriage that failed? No, you're obviously just making up stuff to go along with your preconceived notions. Cheers, D.
Author lonelybird Posted June 5, 2007 Author Posted June 5, 2007 You saw each marriage that failed? No, you're obviously just making up stuff to go along with your preconceived notions. Cheers, D. I saw beautiful marriages. and those who can deeply connect in spiritual level can have it and renew their love feelings Cheers L
disgracian Posted June 5, 2007 Posted June 5, 2007 I've seen beautiful marriages too. Most of them between two secular people. What I really object to here is the way you present only one alternative scenario to a God-oriented wedding: one of infidelity, selfishness and carnality. That just doesn't mesh with reality. It seems to me that you're just inventing an imaginary opponent to knock flat so you can glorify your own stance. If so, then that's dishonest and not fooling anybody. On the other hand, if you really do think that the reality of all marriages outside of your God and Jesus is nothing more fulfilling than fleeting pleasures of the flesh, then you should open your eyes because that's just not true. The truth is that there is not just one correct or best way to do it (i.e., yours). People can connect just as strongly without any help from a god. Cheers, D.
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