luvstarved Posted May 29, 2007 Posted May 29, 2007 Last night, I was tired. Really tired. I had only slept 2 hours the night before and had spent the day cleaning and went on a 5 mile walk. I usually go to bed much later than my H but got daughter to bed, went in and head hit pillow and I fell asleep. Maybe one or two minutes later, H says "roll over, hey roll over" semi-loud. He says he does this because I snore and snore less on one side (I do snore but not all the time). Normally I do just roll over but for some reason this time it hit me like an electric shock and I leapt out of bed with "what? huh?" He told me to just roll over and go back to sleep. I sat there for a minute, now wide awake and jangled, and decided to get up. He's like, what are you doing? I said, I'm gonna get up for a little while. He says nothing, I leave the room. I get something to drink, sit for a minute, and think "Kee-ripes. I can't even go to bed early without some disruption. Then I think, I am just going to lie on couch. Then I won't get jangled and he won't have to listen to snoring". I WAS mildly irritated having been jangled awake, but did not raise my voice when I left room or anything else. I lie down and am half asleep. He comes out of bedroom "what are you doing?" I say as nice as I can, because I know where this is going "Honey, I am tired, I just want to rest, I'm just looking for everybody to get a little peace here". He says "BULL****". This gets our daughter out of her room. She asks what is going on. "Your mom is in one of her moods and has decided to cause a scene". She comes to me on couch and I tell her nothing is going on, I just came out because I was tired and was snoring and Daddy woke me up and I thought I would come out so everyone could get some peace". He says "Your mom is very emotionally disturbed but it's ok, go back to bed" I say "Cripes, can't I just be left alone to get some rest? I am ONLY trying to sleep here" Daughter said "Dad, she just got up when you said turn over, don't you see she just wanted to come out and sleep?" "No that's not what happened, your Mom has issues, but go to bed". I ask him to sit, and I said, honey, please listen to me. I told him I meant nothing by coming into other room, just wanted to get some sleep and he should just accept that and go on back to bed. Well...he proceeded to tell me that I was wrong, that I had intentionally created a crisis, that he was convinced that I had gone into the other room to aggravate him and that he did not know how much more he could take of me. I spent the next two hours trying to convince him that I meant nothing by my actions. He refused to budge. He said that what I did was aggressive and emotionally abusive. He told me that I had serious mental problems and that it was beyond him how I could be so oblivious of my behaviors. He told me that I was not a kind person and that when I acted kind, he knew I was being unnatural so he could not enjoy even that. He even said that he didn't think I was REALLY asleep yet when he said something to me. He did this before when I was pregnant and snored more often. Actually accused me of snoring on purpose to aggravate him. I spent the last two months of my pregnancy on the sofa while he snoozed in the king size bed. I told him that if that is how he saw me then he had no business being married to me. Then, almost ridiculously, he would project back to me almost everything I said. "You don't trust me", "NO you don't trust ME", "you don't even seem to like me" "NO you don't like ME', on and on. I said I thought it was ridiculous. I told him he can get out of the marriage whenever he wants and he said no he can't because of the family but if it were just him, he would have been long gone. He said that he was right because he and his mother both agree about me. I pointed out that his mother agrees with him on everything, and yet he is the one who has been cited in every aspect of his life (work, sports hobbies, doctors) as having anger issues, whereas I have never been cited for such. Then he implied that I was somehow masterfully clever about it but HIM AND HIS MOM know better. He went on and on for a while about how the appropriate thing for me to have done was to roll over and just go back to sleep. I asked him if I had it right that he was telling me that I did not have the freedom to get up and wander my own house in the night. Eventually, as he calmed down, he started saying that he didn't really want to fight and before I know it he was practically claiming that all was well. Today I got up and was entirely friendly to him. Acted as if nothing had happened, just as he always does. Inside, I found myself plotting my escape. Still don't know whether it is just fantasy or a budding reality. Mainly I needed to vent, I am so sad for my daughter thinking about divorce but I just don't think I can take this paranoia and hostility any more. I have already spent YEARS trying to see this from his point of view, but I cannot think of ANY interpretation of my actions that would warrant the attack on me. I told him OVER AND OVER I meant nothing mean by my actions, but every time I did, he would escalate the severity of my "abuse" in his description. And he says he is 100% convinced that he is correct. I feel like this might have broken the camel's back for me. FINALLY realizing that he cannot and will not be reasoned with and that this is never going to turn around. He will never allow for another point of view, no matter how bright a light I shine on it. He will never trust that I am not out to "aggravate" and "abuse" him. I am not sure that he really believes this but is engaged in some sort of "preemptive strike" behavior, fearing that I will leave first (since we are in counseling and I have said that I am not sure things will work out). I feel like I have no options here. So why do I feel SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO sad????
Tony T Posted May 29, 2007 Posted May 29, 2007 Have you thought about counseling...for your husband? He's not very bright OR understanding. Matter of fact, he's pretty shallow and has little or no empathy. He sounds very self centered, almost narcissistic. He sounds like somebody you should have left a very long time ago. In any case, a good counselor may be able to help your marriage, if by doing nothing else but playing referee and explaining life to your husband. Of course, if he's as dumb as he sounds there's really no hope. Enroll him in remedial retardation. Good luck to you. I know what it's like not to be able to sleep. It sucks real bad. Why do I feel you'd most likely sleep a lot better if your husband was in another state?
johan Posted May 29, 2007 Posted May 29, 2007 Your husband sounds a lot like my ex-girlfriend. Especially the part where he turns all your statements around on you. And where he can't be reasoned with and is convinced you have hidden motives. No matter what you say or how you act, it's all just a clever ploy to hide your true nature. I broke up with her one night when she got upset at me for some little thing I did. She again acted as if it were a crack in my armor and just the tip of the iceberg as far as how bad I could be to her. She would never commit to me. She never got over any of this. When I stopped responding to her with passionate arguments, making myself mad just to impress her, she became less passionate overall herself. I wonder if she needed the emotional spark that comes from constantly dueling with me. I would be surprised if counseling would do anything for you. I tried that with the ex, and she was fully engaged until the counselor's focus turned squarely on her. Then she started showing up late and then missing sessions. It was a waste of time. I have no advice for you, really. You're married to him. But I wish you the best. One thing I do think you could get him to do is to stop saying damaging things to your daughter. It's not right to say things like that about you to her. Fortunately she seems to know better. But still, she doesn't need that stress.
4whatItsWorth Posted May 29, 2007 Posted May 29, 2007 luvstarved, I know you think divorce will be harsh on your daughter...but isn't it WORSE for her to grow up thinking it is alright for a man to treat women like your husband does to you? He is painting the picture women have to hold back because they are all mentally disturbed (you should have been gone by the moment he called you this in front of your daughter) and she is seeing you accept this every single day. I think she would rather have her beloved mother being happy and secure rather than trampled on by her own father. This will only make her dislike/hate her father for what he does to you. She will be able to have a better relationship with her dad if he can no longer verbally abuse you on a daily basis. Sorry, but this man is not well enough to be a father. Get out and find a loving man who will set a healthy example and foundation for a relationship to your daughter. You and her both deserve it. Best of luck.
Sheba Posted May 29, 2007 Posted May 29, 2007 Luvstarved I know what you are going through. Once again, it has been brought home to you that your marriage is sick. Once again, you have realized it should end. Once again, you are grieving the loss. It is a hard way to live, isn't it? There is no rhyme or reason in the story you have told. I can't help but wonder if there isn't some history you have left out, or some comment or detail. However, I know from your other posts that you are prone to reveal your own sins, and so this story makes no sense because your husband is completely without reason. The worst part of your story is what your husband said to your daughter. Why he would be so selfishly bent on hurting you that he would frighten your daughter is beyond me. He seems inhuman. He should reassure her, not tell her that her mother is sick! Saying such a thing convinces me that HE is the one who is truly sick. I believe you need a separation. Perhaps you should tell your husband to move out on a trial basis? I think you will be surprised by the peace that will descend over you and your household when the poison of this man is gone. That peace will give you the courage you need to get past the grieving and move on. Are you in counselling on your own yet? You need the support of a professional. You should also engage the support of any wise friends or relatives who can help you keep your resolve. Good luck.
Frances Posted May 29, 2007 Posted May 29, 2007 Do not waste any more of your life putting up with his arkward ways. You need peace in your life and your daughter needs to have a mother who is at peace with herself. If you continue with this life it will suck lifes blood from you. He seems to have a big problem and if he will not get help with it now, by leaving him it may force him to seek help. You are sad because you can not see an end in sight. You will need to take one day at a time. Little by little you can help yourself. Do not expect too much to soon. Every thing passes and this to will pass. The way you go about passing the time is partly up to you. Get help for yourself and in doing that you will be getting help for your daughter. I wish you strength, I hope you have someone close to you that can give you hugs and love.
Author luvstarved Posted May 30, 2007 Author Posted May 30, 2007 Well we were at counseling and talked about this incident today. To my surprise, H did not embellish his version with descriptions of me swearing, slamming doors or other "equalizing falsehoods". Perhaps because I said in my version first that he probably WOULD...instead he was like "I'd never lie about it". He actually admitted that it all happened as I described...!! The counselor seemed to tread it pretty lightly while not exactly letting it slide either. He told H that his behavior was "outrageous", a "massive violation of boundaries" and "abusive". But he also told me that I needed to do more to refuse to react, and also not to seize the opportunity to start being a blame-caster myself. Guessed, apparently correctly, that my leaving the room made H feel "abandoned", "lonely" and "insecure". I would love to say "oh fer cryin' out loud" to that, but part of the equation according to the counselor is to validate each other's feelings. H came up short in the apologies department - "I could have handled it better - but so could she". One situation I am never left out of is the blame game. Whatever. He came out of counseling session acting like some revelation had occurred in which it was finally clear how to act and communicate, even though this is the same model of behavior that has been presented to us for the last six weeks since we started with this counselor. I asked counselor how I was supposed to reconcile being told one day that I am diseased and only being tolerated for the sake of the child and being told that I make him happier than he's ever been the next. Where is the truth,where is the love? And he just turned to H and said "you absolutely have to stop doing that". In the end, my feeling is this. I am keeping an open mind but in my gut I don't think anything is going to meaningfully change. I certainly want it to and certainly hope it does, but I am not going to kid myself that it is just a matter of time and effort and all will be roses and violins. I actually think it is just a matter of time before he tires of the counselor zeroing in on him and then deciding that the counselor is the one with the problem...as he has done in the past. Meanwhile I am going to try to keep working my side of things...I am going to get into IC in near future... Thanks for the support. Is much appreciated.
Darth Vader Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 What your husband is doing is verbal, emotional, and Pshycological abuse, I know, my father did the same, twisted things around that he knew weren't true. I don't go around him much anymore, I can see his BULLCRAP a 1000 miles away! Who sought out the counselor? You, or hubby? As far as him stating that he's only there for you daughter, in so many words, indicates to me however possible, that there may be someone else, male or female, I don't know. I hope I'm wrong there! Are you that same lady that her husband has the panty fetish, or whatever? In any case, I think you may want to explore getting away from this man, don't cheat, no, just get out of this marriage if you can. No, you're not Paranoid, or Crazy, you're certainly not losing it, you're not the one with the problem, HE is! I'm not a professional, no, but when you've been neck deep in the CRAP, you don't forget it! By the way, were you the same lady with the strange Mother? Any chance she could be behind all of this?
SydneyHeart Posted June 1, 2007 Posted June 1, 2007 Im sorry you are (were) feeling so sad Luvstarved - I know the feeling... I identify it as a feeling of helplessness. When you just feel you have nothing to work with , nowhere to go, no way to win - then you fall into despair. If someone reacts so without reason, I think it does make you feel a little powerless. Maybe you (and I both) need to focus on how to restore some power in our lives, how to be more in control of our own happiness. If the hubby decides he wants to come along for the ride, then you can say yes or no. Bottom line - I agree with what everyone said - your daughter needs to be kept out of and away from this. What he said in front of her was selfish and thoughtless and I would be soooooo mad at him for that! That is one thing that strikes me - were you not furious he did that? It sounds like you were able to keep your patience and composure through the whole ordeal - which would really impress me, cos I woulda told mine to get the f*** out by then Not in so many words, but no, if you bad mouth me to the kid/s you gotta go. Kids need to know that is NOT acceptable. If you call it quits - wanna go file together and have a cocktail party after - cos Im following right along behind ya sister ...hang in there girl I'm rooting for ya
Sheba Posted June 1, 2007 Posted June 1, 2007 Luvstarved I have been married to Jekyll and Hyde too, and I know exactly how difficult it is to deal with someone who says horrible things to you one day and wonderful things the next. You end up in a constant state of confusion, believing both, believing neither. You are sort of locked in limbo by this sort of confusion, especially since you might find yourself thinking "if he DOES love me, then we should stay together and try to work things out, and if he DOESN'T love me, then we should split up and move on". That sort of thinking was my downfall. It lead me to tolerate all sorts of awful things, for years. In my situation, a third party (my son!) forced me to a new mindset. I stopped agonizing over his confusing messages. My focus became "things cannot stay this way". All I can suggest for you is that you work on a similar focus. Forget about his words, watch for signs of change in your husband by his actions. And, more importantly, use your own feelings as the barometer for your happiness - not his. Do you love him? Is the household peaceful, happy, cohesive? I will post on my own thread about my progress in counselling - perhaps you will find something worthwhile in what I am learning.
Author luvstarved Posted June 1, 2007 Author Posted June 1, 2007 I identify it as a feeling of helplessness. When you just feel you have nothing to work with , nowhere to go, no way to win - then you fall into despair. If someone reacts so without reason, I think it does make you feel a little powerless. That is one thing that strikes me - were you not furious he did that? It sounds like you were able to keep your patience and composure through the whole ordeal - which would really impress me, cos I woulda told mine to get the f*** out by then Not in so many words, but no, if you bad mouth me to the kid/s you gotta go. Kids need to know that is NOT acceptable. If you call it quits - wanna go file together and have a cocktail party after - cos Im following right along behind ya sister ...hang in there girl I'm rooting for ya Hi Syd, Yes I feel powerless. I am in tech field and always been considered a very rational and fair minded person and my thinking is very analytical. I am a "problem solver" by nature. So to try to deal with this situation where rationality is barely on the radar is SOOO frustrating. Meanwhile, I am also human and sometimes feel like I have a "Mr Spock" problem with life - where I try to maintain rationality so hard that I actually feel thwarted by my own emotions. I was mad that he said that in front of our daughter, and it was not the first time. When he goes off, I defend him somewhat with he was just feeling nervous, or afraid, or whatever...at the same time, in a way I feel like when he says things like that he so clearly sets himself into the "one who is wrong" position that I think it might help her, vs there being a gray area where it isn't clear who's nuttier... I do talk about these things later with her so that she fully realizes that it isn't about her, that it isn't anything "evil" but rather "troubled", etc. She is pretty open and sensible and empathetic when given the chance!! And yeah, we might need to meet for drinks eventually. I don't know what part of the country you live in, but when it comes to that, I'll fly anywhere 'cause I'll need to get far far away!!
Author luvstarved Posted June 1, 2007 Author Posted June 1, 2007 Luvstarved I have been married to Jekyll and Hyde too, and I know exactly how difficult it is to deal with someone who says horrible things to you one day and wonderful things the next. Yes I have been keeping up with your thread and there are huge parallels. We have had no further incidents since that one. My contributing side of it is that when I find myself sort of trying to punish him for these incidents afterward. It isn't a conscious thing, but I have been more vigilant about my own demeanor and I know that I have after some of these incidents sniped sarcastic at him, been cold, etc. over the next few days. I am trying not to do that and haven't this time. At the same time, I am emotionally detaching which is not what I want to do but is what enables me NOT to respond with sarcasm and distance. I have had a problem with jealousy for a number of reasons (his lack of interest in sex, yes - a woman at his work, and his remark, which I realize now started the whole jealous thing, to his sister who had an A that you NEVER NEVER admit to one - that really surprised me and put me on alert!) but I haven't been clingy or accusing. Like you (I just read your update) I expressed my CONCERN over the woman at work and was met with the you-are-insecure routine. Well, hell, yeah I am insecure - you berate me and avoid sex with me and then present all these red flags!! Now he tells counselors that I ACCUSED him of cheating. My almost exact words were: given our sexless marriage and the things you have been telling me about this woman, I see red flags and I fully intend to express my concern over them. I do not think that you are having an affair but that you might be vulnerable to one if you were actively pursued. Anyway I have dropped all that - the worst thing I did was ask questions and get mad when I didn't like the answers, and it wasn't every day by any stretch. He'd tell me something that would raise a red flag and I would ask about it. End of story. But, now, I don't say NUTTIN'. And, frankly, some of the jealousy goes away when I consider I might leave anyway, and when I think, well let him go find someone else, THEY'LL SEE THROUGH HIM TOO! Like, good luck finding someone who will actually treat you the way Mom does (I am pretty convinced that his parents totally failed to show him respectful communication, as he lived with them until we married and he speaks to them the same way and they just TAKE IT and comply comply comply no matter what he does). When I read your story I think , well, this dude is never going to change, it's hopeless...and that's what I hear from other people about mine, etc. But, like you, I also see the good times and the good qualities, which don't get mentioned much here, and I hold up hope. We are probably both fools, but I still hope that it works out for both of us!! Hang in there!
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