Mustang Sally Posted May 30, 2007 Posted May 30, 2007 I think he's just caught up in the fantasy and crushy feelings that start off relationships...His brain is in that fog and it's obvious he's really not thinking clearly. You are likely right, WWIU. What I find fascinating is that this has supposedly been going on/building up in this person's head for five years. Can someone be in a crush-fog for that long? Really? I would think that if something (physical or at least obviously confiming of her feelings back to him) didn't happen during that time, the fog would blow over and heads would clear up. I have to wonder if it is a physical attraction to this woman, or something more cerebral about her that is getting this guy.
directx Posted June 1, 2007 Posted June 1, 2007 Hey 2Old4this, since you work together can you setup a business trip or something similar. Maybe some alone time would clear things up. Have you ever been alone with her in any way? Have you ever been mad at her, even once, or could it be you are so infatuated she can do no wrong. Just wondering.
2sunny Posted June 1, 2007 Posted June 1, 2007 Hey 2Old4this, since you work together can you setup a business trip or something similar. Maybe some alone time would clear things up. Have you ever been alone with her in any way? Have you ever been mad at her, even once, or could it be you are so infatuated she can do no wrong. Just wondering. i think this would be a VERY bad idea - his temptation level is way too high right now!
IfWishesWereHorses Posted June 1, 2007 Posted June 1, 2007 5 years sounds very much like limerence. Limerence is differentiated from infatuation and crushes and said to last much longer especially when unrequitted. The average is 18 months to 3 years except in situations where it is unrequitted or unresolved in which case it has been documented to last a decade or more. The components are : intrusive thinking about limerent object, acute longing for reciprocation, some fleeting and transient relief from unrequited limerence through vivid imagining of action by the limerent object that means reciprocation, fear of rejection and unsettling shyness in the limerent object's presence, intensification through adversity, acute sensitivity to any act, thought, or condition that can be interpreted favorably, and an extraordinary ability to devise or invent "reasonable" explanations for why neutral actions are a sign of hidden passion in the limerent object, an aching in the chest or stomach when uncertainty is strong, buoyancy (a feeling of walking on air) when reciprocation seems evident, a general intensity of feeling that leaves other concerns in the background, a remarkable ability to emphasize what is truly admirable in the limerent object and to avoid dwelling on the negative or render it into another positive attribute. Limerence develops and is sustained when there is a certain balance of hope and uncertainty. The base for limerent hope is not in objective reality but reality as it is perceived. The inclination is to sift through nuances of speech and subtleties of behavior for evidence of limerent hope. "Little things" are noticed and endlessly analyzed for meaning. The belief that the limerent object does not and will not reciprocate can only come about with great difficulty. Limerence can be carried quite far before acknowledgment of rejection is genuine. There is much more information on wikipedia. [COLOR=#800080]Limerence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/COLOR].
Author 2old4this Posted June 1, 2007 Author Posted June 1, 2007 Hey 2Old4this, since you work together can you setup a business trip or something similar. Maybe some alone time would clear things up. Have you ever been alone with her in any way? Have you ever been mad at her, even once, or could it be you are so infatuated she can do no wrong. Just wondering. Never been alone with her outside the office. Have been mad at her about work things. ( A few times, not often.)
Frances Posted June 1, 2007 Posted June 1, 2007 Never been alone with her outside the office. ) And keep it that way. If you have love for your wife and want to stay married get a grip on yourself and put your energy into your home life.
Author 2old4this Posted June 1, 2007 Author Posted June 1, 2007 5 years sounds very much like limerence. Limerence is differentiated from infatuation and crushes and said to last much longer especially when unrequitted. The average is 18 months to 3 years except in situations where it is unrequitted or unresolved in which case it has been documented to last a decade or more. Could be, I could be misreading the signs. But my thinking is that she has an urge, that this relationship would fill a void in her life, but being a smart woman, she recognizes all the likely problems as pointed out by you posters, and is petrified of taking the next step. And I am petrified of the same. So we flirt and do things that bring us close, but keep it safe. I am surprised that my situation seems to be so rare. I would think it would be more common than actual affairs, but it appears not to be.
2sunny Posted June 1, 2007 Posted June 1, 2007 I am surprised that my situation seems to be so rare. I would think it would be more common than actual affairs, but it appears not to be. i really don't think it's a rare situation... just most men tend not to throw it out there for contention. the very fact that you are questioning it should be your answer to begin with... it shows you have a conscience. play it safe and keep your integrity intact... you'll be happier with yourself in the long run...
Author 2old4this Posted June 1, 2007 Author Posted June 1, 2007 NO! I have to admit, she turns me on physically. Not that she is a raving beauty, but she excites me just the same. It's probably the pretty face. And I love spending time with her, we click in conversation. And I think I help her deal with some personal issues she has (not her marriage), and she helps me deal with personal issues I have (not my marriage either). So there is an excitement there. But, even if I weren't married, and even if she weren't married, we could never be a "live together" couple. The only question is who would drive who nuts first. Her husband is perfect in filling her needs, my wife is perfect in filling my needs. I could make her happy emotionally, but not when it comes to everyday living, paying the bills, watching the kids, making dinner, etc. And the same goes for her. So, in reality, we probably have the perfect relationship. It would be a sin to spoil it. But I'm a guy...so you never know what will happen.
Frances Posted June 1, 2007 Posted June 1, 2007 I think you are living in cuckoo land. Are you for real?
IfWishesWereHorses Posted June 2, 2007 Posted June 2, 2007 I am surprised that my situation seems to be so rare. I would think it would be more common than actual affairs, but it appears not to be. YOUR SITUATION ISN'T RARE AT ALL!!! Its just that a good outcome in your situation is rare. Ever heard of "the slippery slope", you're skipping on it in the dark, my friend! Lots of bumps and bruises on the way down, it is as high as it is low and you can rest assured that when you land you will be at the bottom. Know that your fun comes at an expensive price to not only those you claim to love but many others indirectly as well.
Author 2old4this Posted June 2, 2007 Author Posted June 2, 2007 I think you are living in cuckoo land. Are you for real? Wow, that was rather harsh. Am I for real? Are you suggesting that I have nothing better to do with my time than to make up a story? For your viewing pleasure? How about you just ignore my posts from now on. Thank you very much.
Author 2old4this Posted June 2, 2007 Author Posted June 2, 2007 I am surprised that my situation seems to be so rare. I would think it would be more common than actual affairs, but it appears not to be. YOUR SITUATION ISN'T RARE AT ALL!!! Its just that a good outcome in your situation is rare. Ever heard of "the slippery slope", you're skipping on it in the dark, my friend! Lots of bumps and bruises on the way down, it is as high as it is low and you can rest assured that when you land you will be at the bottom. Know that your fun comes at an expensive price to not only those you claim to love but many others indirectly as well. Regretably, I know all too well that you are right about the price to be paid. First hand experience with it (family members) showed the hurt and pain that is inflicted. Taking the blinders off is great advice...but sometimes hard to follow.
2sunny Posted June 2, 2007 Posted June 2, 2007 if you hang around for a bit - you will learn that there are so many people here that do give advice that is amazing... and generally - it may not always be what you want to hear, however they tend to look out for your best interest in the long run... help you to make healthy choices for your happy future. you will soon figure out which ones are better than some of the best friends you could ever meet. they really are here to help.
Author 2old4this Posted June 2, 2007 Author Posted June 2, 2007 Maybe this is why your looking somewhere else. If you got this from your W like u had 20 years ago, whould it make a difference? Why do you accept this comes with the territory? These are very good questions and I had to put a lot of thought into them, especially the first one. Would it make a difference? I really don't know. More love and affection never hurts, and I could stand for much more of it. But I just don't know if that would make a difference. Although, if I came home every night to a wife that threw me down on the floor looking for it, that would make it hard to think the thoughts I have. But talk about fantasy! I believe this come with the territory. I believe the changes that occur are physical in nature and the natural result of aging. It can be overcome by an emotional desire to do right by your partner, even though the urge, like the urge to sneeze, is no longer there. But I don't think most people (in most cases women) are willing or interested in making the effort. Hence, this forum and the large amount of marriage failures.
Frances Posted June 2, 2007 Posted June 2, 2007 Wow, that was rather harsh. Am I for real? Are you suggesting that I have nothing better to do with my time than to make up a story? For your viewing pleasure? How about you just ignore my posts from now on. Thank you very much. You do not like the truth then. I am a BS so I know all about the hurt that you will cause if you continue with your fantasy. Perhaps if you gave more time and effort to your marriage your wife may respond better to you. Would you like her to do what you have been doing?
whichwayisup Posted June 2, 2007 Posted June 2, 2007 Although, if I came home every night to a wife that threw me down on the floor looking for it, that would make it hard to think the thoughts I have. But talk about fantasy! So, tell your wife you'd love for this to happen! To come home, find her naked in the hallway, waiting for you...Then have some hot sex! SPICE IT UP! Don't go looking for that spice on the side, it will only make things worse.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted June 2, 2007 Posted June 2, 2007 I don't get the feeling that he is looking for advice on how to make his marriage better. His wife could offer him hot sex 24/7 but it wouldn't even come close to the feeling he gets just considering whether this OW put on lipstick to impress him. It just doesn't work like that. He will never have another first kiss with his wife. Never have 5 years invested dreaming of that first kiss (good GOD what a waste of REAL time)! When he's sitting in a heep looking over the fallout that his fantasy has caused he won't even be able to call up those feelings he had about the first kiss with OW. Smoke and mirrors. THIS IS NATURES WAY OF INSURING SURVIVAL OF A SPECIES. It doesn't have anything to do with fairness, love, or happiness. You put rats in a cage and offer them something that causes those euphoric centers of the brain to begin firing and they will choose that over food until they starve themselves to death. As humans we are supposed to have reason that will outweigh those desires but as with any destructive behavior/addiction it doesn't always work that way. I really don't believe that this is about what his wife does or doesn't do at all. He states he wants ow to tell him that she cares about him. That is the fantasy in limerence. The admission of returned feelings, they cannot be asked for but must be given freely. When true limerence fades finally, and it always does, most people can't imagine how they let that ruin their lives. HOW CAN THEY NOT KNOW????? Because those euphoric feelings are no longer present. Kind of like drunk dialing an x and waking up in the morning with that WTF was I thinking feeling. Seemed like a good idea at the time but I can't for the life of me remember why!
OpenBook Posted June 2, 2007 Posted June 2, 2007 Hi 2old, I've been in your OW's shoes MANY times over the last 20 years and I've been down both roads - consummating the attraction, and not. I can unequivocally say that NOT doing anything about it works out the best. Here's how I dealt with it -- I just let the feelings ride themselves out in my "fantasy world" and kept them firmly in that arena only. I let myself enjoy the pleasure of verbally interacting with the MM object of my crush, but AVOIDED AT ALL COSTS discussing my feelings for him. I didn't ever seek to be alone with him where I would have been tempted to do anything about my feelings. Even when I DID end up alone with him (on an out-of-town business trip, which he arranged), I kept it casual, friendly, and focused on the goal of the trip (business purposes). And EVERY TIME in these scenarios - the "crush" has always faded into a nice friendship. No guilt, no fuss, no lies/deception. Just a lot of mutual respect and genuine affection for each other - not to mention the TRUST factor that I get from others - including the W. Attraction happens. Fantasy happens. I agree that you can't control who you fall in love with, or even whom you're attracted to. But you CAN control your actions. Could you be satisfied just with the knowledge that another female finds you attractive and enjoys your company - and leave it at that?? And just a warning -- OTHER PEOPLE HAVE NOTICED you two sitting a little too close to each other at lunch, and the lipstick thing, and the chemistry between you. Don't delude yourself about this. Just rejoice in the fact that you've done nothing wrong so far - you're still in control of it, you still have choices. Good luck.
Author 2old4this Posted June 3, 2007 Author Posted June 3, 2007 You do not like the truth then. I am a BS so I know all about the hurt that you will cause if you continue with your fantasy. Perhaps if you gave more time and effort to your marriage your wife may respond better to you. Would you like her to do what you have been doing? The truth? Your comments had nothing to do with the truth. The truth I can take. The truth I deserve. But your comments were just a mean spirited attack. In case you forgot, here is what you wrote: "I think you are living in cuckoo land. Are you for real?" I welcome your comments, no matter how damning, as long as they remain on point.
whichwayisup Posted June 3, 2007 Posted June 3, 2007 Great post open book, and welcome. I agree, great post. We ALL like to be looked at, and be desired by someone else... Most just enjoy it for what it's worth and don't go into fantasyland 24/7 to the point of seriously considering taking it to another level that will do damage to one's marriage. 2old4this, focus on the advice that is being given that is helping you, not the ones that are attacking you. Many people have offered up some good posts for you to read, so I hope some of what we're all saying is sinking in.
Frances Posted June 3, 2007 Posted June 3, 2007 The truth? Your comments had nothing to do with the truth. The truth I can take. The truth I deserve. But your comments were just a mean spirited attack. In case you forgot, here is what you wrote: "I think you are living in cuckoo land. Are you for real?" I welcome your comments, no matter how damning, as long as they remain on point. It may be a good idea for you to reread your own posts. You are an adult with a wife you claim to love, why not act like you love her then. If your wife was acting like you, do you not think you would be hurt?
Author 2old4this Posted June 3, 2007 Author Posted June 3, 2007 I don't get the feeling that he is looking for advice on how to make his marriage better. His wife could offer him hot sex 24/7 but it wouldn't even come close to the feeling he gets just considering whether this OW put on lipstick to impress him. It just doesn't work like that. He will never have another first kiss with his wife. Never have 5 years invested dreaming of that first kiss (good GOD what a waste of REAL time)! When he's sitting in a heep looking over the fallout that his fantasy has caused he won't even be able to call up those feelings he had about the first kiss with OW. Smoke and mirrors. ... Excellent post. I won't say that I agree with everything you wrote, but there are many points that are right on the money. But I wouldn't say that my 5 years of flirtation/fantasy/infatuation/dreams were a waste. It's been pleasurable, very satisfying on an emotional level. Sure, there has been a yearning that may never be satisfied, but what is the old saying? Something like "Better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all"? Ok, that is not a perfect analogy, but I think it gets the point across. But, really, I see a lot of truth in what you wrote. If only I can get my head to rule my heart. Or maybe it's not my heart that needs to be ruled, maybe it's another body part that needs to be better controlled.
Author 2old4this Posted June 3, 2007 Author Posted June 3, 2007 Could you be satisfied just with the knowledge that another female finds you attractive and enjoys your company - and leave it at that?? And just a warning -- OTHER PEOPLE HAVE NOTICED you two sitting a little too close to each other at lunch, and the lipstick thing, and the chemistry between you. Don't delude yourself about this. Just rejoice in the fact that you've done nothing wrong so far - you're still in control of it, you still have choices. Good luck. Great post, thank you. You noted that you consumated at least one relationship. I'd like to hear more about that. What caused you to do it? What were the games that were played? What were the signs that you picked up on? What were the signs that you put out there? What was the final action that caused you to go for it? Could I be satisfied that she finds me attractive and enjoys my company? I think I could. I think I could. I think I could. I hope I could. A funny thing about the "other people have noticed" thing. I don't know if it is done subconciously or conciously, but I get some kind of weird excitement from it; it's clear, on some level, that I want other people to notice. And to wonder about it. I know, it is so wrong, and I don't understand why I do it, I don't understand why I get this rush from it, but I do. I have been having a really hard time with this. Maybe I'm testing her to see if she moves away or shuts down? She hasn't, the closer I get, the closer she gets. But we don't touch. Except at the bar (company thing) where I kept "accidentally" brushing up against her arm.
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