Kathleen2260 Posted May 24, 2007 Posted May 24, 2007 This isn't for me, but a friend of mine is in this situation. I want to print this thread out and show it to him if anyone has advice If you are FWB with a someone and the woman can not handle FWB adn wants more and you refuse to give in because you don't want a girlfriend or have time and dont' want to feel you are being "controlled" does it get better (will she actually mellow out?) if you agree to become her boyfriend and be in a serious relationship with her? My friend doesn't even really like this girl, he doesn't include her in his vacations, she's never met his friends or his family. He just basically stays over at her house once in awhile. Every time they talk they scream and fight. She wants ALL of his time and doesn't respect anything he does. She is very manipulative and controlling. She KNOWS what pushes his buttons (demanding his time) and then tells him he is bipolar when he gets upset and flips out. She is very self-centered (even her friends will say this) She is 35 but acts younger and has immature fits quite often. She wants to settle down with someone but my friend is years away from that. He keeps saying he's going to end it, he sees other women behind her back, he lies to her (and he USED to be a good honest guy), he just gets very irritable when she's around. She is never happy unless everything goes HER way. I used to think he was exagerating about her behavior but I've witnessed it several times myself. yet when she told him its either a relationship or nothing he is seriously considering having a relationship with her. his feelings are he doesn't want to be alone and he will never find anyone else. She has him convinced that he "has no sense of humor, no personality, and no one would want you". These are the things she says to him. But then she tells him how much SHE cares about him. None of this is true. He is a good guy, funny, sweet, good looking. He just has low self esteem and she makes it worse. He broke into her house to get pictures of him (naked pics) off of her computer because he's afraid she will use these to humiliate him. He honestly thinks though if he becomes her boyfriend that she will mellow out and stop demanding all of his time becasue she got what she wanted all along. This woman is practically psycho. He is in college and during the week of his finals he told her ahead of time he wouldn't see her that week because he had to work adn study. Well she was very upset and spent the whole week harrasing him, texting him calling him leaving ten messages a day of her crying, threatening him, accuising him of stuff and in general creating drama so that he had to deal with HER instead of studying for his finals that were very important to him. Most recently he lied to her about not having a myspace account (he does have one) she found out somehow and also found he had a profile on a dating site) and thats when she gave him the utimatum. He also lied to her about going to my sister's wedding. He told her he had to house sit for a friend. he didnt' do anything bad at the wedding, he just didnt' want to take her with him. He admits that if he found some other girl right away who would date him he would leave his FWB girl. He's even told another woman they both work with that she is his dream girl and he would love to date her! He's also tried hooking up with women from online dating sites. But he is seriously considering having a relationship with FWB girl and he has invited her to meet his family this weekend. This woman wants a serious long term relationship that leads to marriage and he thinks he can just dump her if it doesnt' change. Does anyone think that if they start dating things will get better? will she change her controlling manipulative, me-me-me ways? I should point out that she basically lets him treat her badly, not showing up or calling when he says he will. She will yell at him for it and threaten to leave but she always comes back. The reason is that while she thinks she is a great catch, she is overweight and very clingy and needy and not many guys want to give her a chance. My guy friend is very attractive- slim, tall, nice face- and he is her type. She wont' date men who are overweight themselves even though she is heavy. So because my friend is good looking he can treat her like trash while a heavy set guy might treat her like gold but she wont' date him because he's not her "ideal" and seh thinks she deserves better. I know my friend doesn't treat most women like that. he's never been anything but respectful to me (we've known eachother about 14 years) and he treated his last girlfriend very very well. As a woman I cringe at teh way he treats FWB girl but I do realize she causes most of the drama between them. She is so in denial that she says she hates drama and that HE is the one who is the drama queen. if you hate drama why would you call someone ten times in a row and leave crying nasty messages on their phone? he is under the impression that things will get better if he has a serious relationship with her/ Is there anyone here who agrees that things can get better?
annabelle75 Posted May 24, 2007 Posted May 24, 2007 I will only get worse if he gives in and gives her what she wants. he needs to get out now, before its too late. If she is that clingy and desperate he needs to stop sleeping with her before she does something like intentionally get pregnant so he can't get rid of her. I've seen it happen too many times (even in my own family).
Author Kathleen2260 Posted May 25, 2007 Author Posted May 25, 2007 I agree. She already tried that (even though she claims she would never do that.) She tried to get him to stop using protection because she said it felt better and that she and her ex never used protection adn she never got pregnant. Yuck. Luckily my friend didn't fall for it. He just seems to think that if she gets what she wants (him as her boyfriend)that things will magically get better. Up until this ultimatum he said he would never date her. He was happy with FWB.
nicki Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 If he gives in, then she will only get positive reinforcement for negative behavior...so the negative behavior will continue, and escalate. And, if he gives in to a situation he doesn't want, then he has no backbone and will continue to lose self-esteem. But, really, I don't feel sorry for him. The situation is clearly hurting the woman and he stays in it for the sex and the companionship. He is only considering himself and his own needs....really, life requires us to consider our needs but in balance with others' needs as well. If someone is getting hurt, then we need to change things so we aren't harming someone else with our selfish actions. He has the right to NOT be in a relationship with her. If that hurts her, then it's okay. He can't avoid that, and by ending it he will be saving her future pain, so it's actually the kind thing to do. He has to be true to his own needs, but there are many ways to create situations that support us and what we want. He can walk away. He can date other women. He can call you up and go out as friends. It's like when a woman has an affair because her husband ignores her. The desire to get her needs met is corrrect, but she's going about it in a dangerous and selfish way. It's the same with your friend. Tell him to grow a pair, dump her and go out with a woman he is interested in. FWB seems to only work if BOTH parties have the same attitude and expectations. Otherwise, it is a cruel arrangement. You sound like a great friend! Hopefully, you can fill up his time with some platonic companionship. Oh, and tell him not to sleep with her, even with a condom. As a poster on this site once said, a woman could sabotage the condom by poking holes through the package, or, after sex, turning the condom inside out and inserting the semen herself. Yikes!
oppath Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 Anyone who continues a FWB relationship when they know the other person wants more, or even asks for one when they no for sure the other person wants more (such as after a non-mutual breakup), is a selfish, malignant douchebag. The action is inimical. It is damaging to someone, knowingly damaging, so even you are upfront "this is just sex," if you know the other person desires more, it is CRUEL to prey on their lack of assertiveness and low self esteem for your own sexual gratification. All you are doing is hurting someone, and it doesn't matter if "they agreed to it," what matters is you know you are damaging someone, so you therefore share responsibility.
Author Kathleen2260 Posted May 25, 2007 Author Posted May 25, 2007 I agree that he is wrong and is hurting her but he just says its not HIS fault because she agreed to this and she can leave at any time. Which is true but she is sticking around thinking someday he will want more with her. And now that she gave him the ultimatum he very well may end up having more with her. My friend treats her very badly and he has bad mouthed every aspect of their FWB relationship with me. He even says that the sex sucks most of the time and that he doesn't find her attractive (because she is heavy) except that she has big boobs and pretty hair. But other wise he's sort of grossed out by her. So basically he is USING HER. But he wont' let go. Even if he is upset with her he tells her she can walk away at any time and she never does but NEITHER DOES HE. Almost every week I have to listen to him say "if she acts like this one more time ITS OVER!" He has said that so many times I've lost count. now when I hear that I just roll my eyes because of course she acts dramatic or like an idiot or causes him drama and yet he will scream and yell at her but he goes back again thinking she will change. The thing is that their personalities just don't click. He is someone who hates feeling controlled, he likes to be his own person, doesn't want strings attached. He is going to college and trying to get his life together. He hates his job, is searchign for a new one. He wants someone to relax and have fun with and I know with the right person he would settle down and be a very loving responsible sweet boyfriend. But she is very clingly very needy, very selfish as everything has to be about HER. I mean she will get mad and make his life absolute hell if he does not come over EVERY time she asks him to. She needs a guy who will smother her with attention, make her #1 100% of the time and who respects her and treats her like a queen. Not a good match, these two. She is also settled, has been at her job a long time, is buying a house, ready to have kids (though she says she's not sure if seh wants any- but if you weren't sure you ever wanted kids wouldn't you be on some type of birth control?) She doesnt' respect any of his needs or decisions. He wants to continue going to school where he's at (an hour away from her) she wants him to transfer (even though he'd lose some credits and have to take more classes therefore paying more money) to be closer to her. I'm hoping he sees the light before its too late but I have a feeling he's going to end up dating her.
Star Gazer Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 Anyone who continues a FWB relationship when they know the other person wants more, or even asks for one when they no for sure the other person wants more (such as after a non-mutual breakup), is a selfish, malignant douchebag. The action is inimical. It is damaging to someone, knowingly damaging, so even you are upfront "this is just sex," if you know the other person desires more, it is CRUEL to prey on their lack of assertiveness and low self esteem for your own sexual gratification. All you are doing is hurting someone, and it doesn't matter if "they agreed to it," what matters is you know you are damaging someone, so you therefore share responsibility. I totally agree. Interesting insight from a self-proclaimed "player" too.
oppath Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 I'm not a player . I've been called a man-whore before for making out with a lot of girls in the same social circle in a short amount of time, but I can't really do extended casual sex. I'm in a stage now where I want to date a lot, so tough luck to the girls. After 2-3 dates, I'm probably moving on, but I will not escalate physically them or lead them on. If they express casual sex, OK, let's do it, but honestly, after 2-3 times, I'm bored. I only enjoy sex with someone who I find interesting and want to spend time with, and that type of person is someone who I would generally want a relationship with. I am not ready for a relationship right now for multiple reasons -- getting over an ex included -- and my game honesty is pretty lame at the moment because I've been battling with depression, but I could never knowingly use someone knowing they want more. It doesn't matter if this girl is needy or clingy. I can understand why. these situations lead to low self esteem, and she needs his constant attention and assurance he does desire her, or her esteem further plummets. HE IS AT FAULT HERE. He knows he is using her, he knows he doesn't want her, and he knows she lacks the esteem to cut it off herself and that she is being damaged in this relationship. I put the blame on him. why would he be with her at all if she has so many problems? Because he is a selfish ass who is using her to her detriment. Tell him to be a man and let her go so he can find someone better for him and so she can heal and regain her esteem. Tell him to explain to her it wouldn't be fair of him to keep seeing her at all because he knows she wants more, and he can't offer that, and all it is doing is hurting her and that he wants her to heal and find the man of her dreams, and that won't happen as long as they keep sleeping together. Tell him if he doesn't do this he is a douche who lacks dignity. Because he is! She may be needy and clingy and a mess, but that doesn't absolve him from being an ass.
Author Kathleen2260 Posted May 29, 2007 Author Posted May 29, 2007 Well my friend is officially dating his crazy FWB gal now. he introduced her to his family this weekend and met hers as well. He says he is going to see how it goes. But the funny thing is while she wants him to move to be closer to her and spend more time with her he just got an interview (this wed) for a job that would have him working 2 hours away from her! I hope he gets the job and leaves this poor woman alone. I mean he actually says he has a better time when she's NOT around. Doesn't sound like a good match to me.
Recommended Posts