2005lexus Posted May 24, 2007 Posted May 24, 2007 I have read a little about watching what a woman does rather than what she says to really determine her intent. With that said here is my background. I am in love I think with this woman. I have been separated but not yet divorced for a while. She calls me every day to touch base and chat. If I play it cool and dont tell her anything like I miss her etc, she will come out and tell me she misses me and in a round about way tries to see me. She waits for me to respond to her words and make arrangements to go out with her to lunch or something like that. She has said to me many times that she cant be with me because she cannot be the mistress as I am still married. I say ok I understand. That would be fine if I could be strong enough to leave her alone. I can't and I seem to wait for her to be available for me all the time. Can any of you relate to wanting to wait around hoping something works out? I am holding on to the fact that she calls me and we do see each other sometimes. She disappears on the weekend doing her own thing with her kids and around the house but keeps in touch throughout the day. Come Monday she will call me and miss me and spend some time with me, maybe have sex. I have given her gifts and paid her bills and been one of those guys who try too hard to win her with security. I know I am going wrong somewhere but again I hold on to the fact that she is calling me up twice a day and I seem to be smitten with love for her, at least I think its love. Maybe I am dependent. I need some feedback and maybe someone elses story so I can learn what to do.
whichwayisup Posted May 24, 2007 Posted May 24, 2007 Why are you not getting that divorce??? Are you keeping the door open with your wife? Respect your lady friend, don't have sex with her or date her UNTIL you are completely out of your marriage. And, don't buy her affection, that's not cool. If she likes you, let it be because she likes WHO are you as a person, not because you're giving so much. Hate to say it, but it seems you really like the ego feed this woman is giving you and you don't want to actually DO something to move things along as per a relationship.
Author 2005lexus Posted May 24, 2007 Author Posted May 24, 2007 I'm ready for the honest truth so dont feel bad about letting me have it. I can be blind to myself and that is why I ask for feedback. I have not gotten a divorce yet partly because I am not wanting to be really alone. Even though I have moved out of the house and live alone, I have kids and the thought of pulling the trigger and facing the unknown is freaky. I think if I had a relationship that I knew was there after the divorce I would feel the comfort of knowing I am not alone and I do have the love in my life I want, rather than the loneliness of feeling like I have failed and inadequately alone. That is my theory on the divorce. If this girl would commit to me then the divorce would come sooner I think, even though I am dragging it on due to my own fears. Am I bad for feeling this way? Am I a jerk and undeserving of this woman?
Jinxx Posted May 24, 2007 Posted May 24, 2007 I'm ready for the honest truth so dont feel bad about letting me have it. I can be blind to myself and that is why I ask for feedback. I have not gotten a divorce yet partly because I am not wanting to be really alone. Even though I have moved out of the house and live alone, I have kids and the thought of pulling the trigger and facing the unknown is freaky. I think if I had a relationship that I knew was there after the divorce I would feel the comfort of knowing I am not alone and I do have the love in my life I want, rather than the loneliness of feeling like I have failed and inadequately alone. That is my theory on the divorce. If this girl would commit to me then the divorce would come sooner I think, even though I am dragging it on due to my own fears. Am I bad for feeling this way? Am I a jerk and undeserving of this woman? Then why don't you sit this girl down and tell her exactly how you feel. Either she'll want to be with you or she won't. I don't think you're bad for feeling this -- just human.
whichwayisup Posted May 24, 2007 Posted May 24, 2007 I'm ready for the honest truth so dont feel bad about letting me have it. I can be blind to myself and that is why I ask for feedback. I have not gotten a divorce yet partly because I am not wanting to be really alone. Even though I have moved out of the house and live alone, I have kids and the thought of pulling the trigger and facing the unknown is freaky. I think if I had a relationship that I knew was there after the divorce I would feel the comfort of knowing I am not alone and I do have the love in my life I want, rather than the loneliness of feeling like I have failed and inadequately alone. That is my theory on the divorce. If this girl would commit to me then the divorce would come sooner I think, even though I am dragging it on due to my own fears. Am I bad for feeling this way? Am I a jerk and undeserving of this woman? But you need the time alone to move through the feelings of divorce...You can't hop out of a marriage and jump into another relationship. Being alone will help you grow and become stronger. I do understand that you'll be lonely, but you'll have your kids nearby and you've got friends, family, maybe bro's and sis's too in your life. You can't wait for something to happen, you gotta MAKE it happen. Meaning, don't wait until the relationship starts and then go for the divorce...Do the divorce first THEN seek a relationship. Many women won't get involved with a separated man because the ex isn't out of the picture completely and in a potiental girlfriends' mind, your marriage isn't over until the D papers are signed.
annabelle75 Posted May 24, 2007 Posted May 24, 2007 You need to go through with the divorce. How does your wife feel about all this? As in separted, do you mean that you are still trying to work this out with your wife? Does she think this is just a seperation and you two will eventually be back together? If so, you need to put an end to the marriage sooner rather than later. Its unfair to everyone involved. Jumping from one relationship to another really isn't such a great idea. You need time to decompress and figure out who you are outside of your marriage. I think you should go ahead and get the divorce and then continue to just date the woman you are currently seeing. It would be good for you and the relationship to not rush into anything.
frannie Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 I have not gotten a divorce yet partly because I am not wanting to be really alone. Even though I have moved out of the house and live alone, I have kids and the thought of pulling the trigger and facing the unknown is freaky. I think if I had a relationship that I knew was there after the divorce I would feel the comfort of knowing I am not alone and I do have the love in my life I want, rather than the loneliness of feeling like I have failed and inadequately alone. That is my theory on the divorce. If this girl would commit to me then the divorce would come sooner I think, even though I am dragging it on due to my own fears. Am I bad for feeling this way? Am I a jerk and undeserving of this woman? I think what you're feeling isn't unusual for a man facing divorce. Does that make you a jerk or undeserving..? I wouldn't say so, no. But I do think you need to address those fears, because I don't think there's anything she can do (and nor should she) to make them go away. There's fear of failure, of closing a door that can never again be opened, of being alone, making a terrible mistake... your OW isn't the one who can solve those for you... because they're your insecurities. You say that those fears and insecurities would be lessened if you felt that she was going to be truly there for you once you 'pull the trigger'. The thing is, even if you could feel that, there are no guarantees for the future, are there..? Perhaps things wouldn't work out with her, even IF she loves you and is the greatest woman on earth: not all relationships do work out. You initially asked 'what does she want'... and asked people to make an assessment on that based on her behaviour (phonecalls, etc.), so that you could feel easier in yourself..? But what came across to me in your first post was that you're keeping her at arms length, acting cold in order to get her to somehow prove herself. In my opinion this is only going to drive her away eventually. Plus you're hardly being fair to her, showing little care or love during a time when she's probably anxious and miserable (read a few OW threads to get an idea... try BaileyKeg's for a start, since she's been in that situation from the other side). My other thought on this is that you're not being yourself, and by 'acting cold' and so on you're probably affecting her behaviour... making her do the running, building insecurities in her. You know some people really like the chase and when they get what they want they get turned off..? If you're making her chase all this time you may have attracted someone who is herself a little commitment phobic (just a for instance here, not saying it's necessarily the case!) and if and when you finally think 'ok' and let your guard down, it may result in an odd reaction and relationship difficulties there... ... so my suggestion is this: be yourself with her, and love her if that is how you feel... if that seems scary then you know you need to work on your fears... fears of it all going wrong again, fears of being alone. Those are things other people can never, ever fix for you, because nothing they do will ever be good enough. Best of luck.
Impudent Oyster Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 Well, I can tell you what she doesn't want, she doesn't want to be an OW, she doesn't want to risk getting involved with a separated man who is dragging his feet, she doesn't want to go against her moral beliefs, and why should she? She sounds like a very smart woman, a woman not willing to compromise her integrity and definitely like someone who is worth the wait. Either you decide that you really want a divorce, then get one so you're free to pursue a woman like this, or you remain in limbo, left with women who have no integrity and don't mind being the other woman. Your choice. But she is doing the right thing, she clearly has standards and won't (nor should she) compromise them. You shouldn't expect her to either. You know she's interested so my guess is she's trying to see if you think she's worth it. I'd do the same thing. Any man who isn't sure what he wants is so not a man I'd get involved with.
Impudent Oyster Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 I have not gotten a divorce yet partly because I am not wanting to be really alone. Even though I have moved out of the house and live alone........ Am I bad for feeling this way? Am I a jerk and undeserving of this woman? OK HUGE red flag here. What woman wants a man who is afraid to be alone? GET A DIVORCE, or the pool of available women (ie; women who will want you) is going to be pretty scary. Or, recommit to your marriage but stop being so wishy-washy, it's a huge turn-off. You're not a jerk, but you are undeserving of this woman. I'll bet you will find a woman who doesn't mind that you're married though...if that's what you're willing to settle for.
Author 2005lexus Posted May 25, 2007 Author Posted May 25, 2007 You guys are really smart people, or just hang out here a lot longer than me. Ok I agree I would not want a woman that would be the OW partly because it raises trust issues with me. I think if she was willing to be the OW with me then she would cheat on me if I was finally with her. If I leave my wife of 8 years to go into a relationship with someone just to have her leave me in 1 year would be just bad all around. As far as reconciliation, I just am not compatible with my wife anymore, it has been that way for years and I cannot see myself continuing it for much longer. She didn't have what I needed and it was apparent a while back but I was afraid to get divorced, still am. This new woman has made me feel like life is worth living again. We sexed twice a day every day, we went out, we laughed and had that in love feeling. That feeling ended after a few months when she thought it through and said she did not want to be the OW. Now she is a little standoffish but calls every day. Right now she called me from out of town just to say she missed me. I guess that shows she still has interest. Me on the other hand want her to prove to me that it is worth it to move things along and be with her. I want her to make me the king of the world to her so I believe her loyalty will be there after I am final in my divorce. In the beginning while I had fun with her I knew it was too early to know if I wanted to be with her long term. Now that she is taking a breather I think I do want to be with her but am afraid in the end she will just call it quits when one day some man accidentally walks into her life and takes her mind off me. If I divorce, she leaves too for good and I am alone again, I would be very unhappy. That is not a good scenario for me because I want my cake the way I want it. She hangs at the beach a lot and there is no shortage of men to look her way. I kinda want to know she will turn them all down for me and not let me down easy, saying she still loves me but it wont work out. In the end I do want to be a man that is deserving of a good woman and if I have behaved in a way contrary to that then I can learn to change my ways and do the right kinds of things. I am not too old to learn a different way. Believe me your comments are very much appreciated.
4whatItsWorth Posted May 26, 2007 Posted May 26, 2007 That is not a good scenario for me because I want my cake the way I want it. I will try to say this with love, but it might come across as rude, so sorry in advance: Women DO NOT like men who are "jerking them along" or are "needy". I have a friend who sounds like you - he hates being alone. He had an amazing girlfriend, but he lost her because he was so needy he wouldn't let her spend any time alone. He had no life besides her. Now THAT is scary. You never said if your wife wanted to reconcile or think it will happen or not...you just said you're not "compatible". You need to realise the relation you had with the girl was still an OW relation where everything will seem "blissful". For what you know, few years down the road, she could be your new "wifey situation". And then there you go again. When you say you will be alone if you divorce...it really makes me suspcicious of the role your W still has in your life. You live outside home...but then what is not "alone" about that? I just don't get it. I think you need to work on your self-esteem issues here, otherwise you will end up like my friend - there is a reason no girls wants to date him, trust me. No woman needs a man with no self-esteem who is needy, I can't repeat it enough. Be a man, stand up for yourself and get a divorce. If you keep making her "make you her king" she will realise you are no king...you're not even a prince.
4whatItsWorth Posted May 26, 2007 Posted May 26, 2007 Btw, women don't like cake eaters...we like "cake givers".
Author 2005lexus Posted May 26, 2007 Author Posted May 26, 2007 I realize that I am needy and I do spend an awful amount of time thinking about this girl when I should be focusing on myself for a change. That neediness has annoyed her in the past and as much as I try to play it cool I end up texting her mean things about what she does with her time, how come she doesn't call me sometimes etc. As far as being alone, yes I have moved out but go over to the old house daily to see the kids, hang out and mess around the house. The wife wants to reconcile so she is sort of there as a backup if I realize I blew it and need to stay with her. I am being brutally honest here. The fact is though sometimes I can't stand her and am sooooo happy I moved out, other times when I am lonely I miss her care. Maybe that shows I am not really ready for a divorce yet but all I know is the love feelings I get with the OW is just not there with the wife and has not been for years. I will read your post again and digest it some more, especially the last part about me not being a king at all.
frannie Posted May 26, 2007 Posted May 26, 2007 I would not want a woman that would be the OW partly because it raises trust issues with me. I think if she was willing to be the OW with me then she would cheat on me if I was finally with her. If I leave my wife of 8 years to go into a relationship with someone just to have her leave me in 1 year would be just bad all around. As I said in my earlier post, you cannot have assurances that people are going to be there for you. This is your insecurity waving it's hand loud and clear here. In your first post you talked about being cold to her, and now you're saying you are downright mean to her... all because of your insecurities and neediness. You need to get those things sorted out. You say she's already become annoyed with your 'neediness'... I'm not surprised about that. The fact you need assurance from her that she won't mess around with other men who pay her attention... while you yourself are still married... that all smacks of insecurities from you that are never good for a relationship. Well that all sounds like I'm really down on you, and I don't mean to be, because you talk in every post about changing. But unless you see that it's YOUR insecurities rather than her behaviour that's the problem here, then you're never going to change. Just remember you're the married person having sex with a single woman. And yet you are talking about her as if she's the reprobate... she's not made marriage vows and is not cheating..? So why should you assume or suggest that she'd cheat on you in the future..? Once again, it's your insecurity rather than her which you should be looking at. Anyway, just my opinion and I hope I've not offended you.
frannie Posted May 26, 2007 Posted May 26, 2007 ... how come she doesn't call me sometimes etc. As far as being alone, yes I have moved out but go over to the old house daily to see the kids, hang out and mess around the house. The wife wants to reconcile so she is sort of there as a backup... Yes exactly... your OW doesn't sound like a fool. All you have to do is read some of the threads on this forum to know what people who are involved with married SOs go through. You're asking the impossible from your OW... she can't take all the fear away... you have to do that for yourself.
Author 2005lexus Posted May 26, 2007 Author Posted May 26, 2007 Thanks for your feedback. I have written 10 goals for myself and aim to try and pursue them. Without it being said I realize I am not the man ANY woman would want to be with. I cheated and yet I am wanting assurances that I won't be cheated on. I am needy and clingy maybe due to some other issue in me that caused me to cheat in the first place. I do need to sort those out or else logic says it may or will affect any future relationship. With that said I am down in the dumps and it comes and goes, all because I want someone to be there to love me up and make me feel good. If and when the OW calls me because she has some down time and misses me, it make my day so good, I almost wonder why I post messages here, thats how much better I feel. When I am missing her and she is staying away I go down again and feel like I need to reach out for help. I guess the first step is realizing whats really going on. This board and your comments have made me see myself for what I am. The next step is to find a way to change for the better.
frannie Posted May 26, 2007 Posted May 26, 2007 Well my reaction to that is that ten goals and 'realising that you're not someone any woman would want to be with'... you're being very hard on yourself there too. She's calling you... she wants to be with you, or at the very least chat to you..? Everything doesn't have to be in absolutes, life isn't all about ten goals and either/ors... I'm saying this because I have struggled with quite a few of those tendencies myself in the past... probably will again in all probability. I think you've got a great start on this because you're pretty self-aware and wanting to change things. I would say there's a tendency in you to set yourself hard goals, and do the same for those who are involved with you... What I am wondering right now is, how can you be easier on yourself, and easier on her..? I read someone's blog entry today that asked, 'what can you soften?'... it all started out about something her yoga teacher had said to her about finding something physically she could ease the tension in... and she'd taken that and applied it to her life, situations, experiences with others, and self-talk... maybe that would be a good thing for you too... be a little easier on yourself, and on your OW..?
Author 2005lexus Posted May 26, 2007 Author Posted May 26, 2007 Everything doesn't have to be in absolutes Thanks Frannie. That statement above is exactly what she said to me a couple times. She said I always see things either black or white and that was a problem of mine. Hmmm. Well something to think about. She just called me and before she hung up she said "i love you". I said nothing but quickly tell her to drive safe, as though I didnt hear her. A couple days ago she said in a reminding way that we are just friends. So on one hand I see her wanting to chat me up and has interest. On the other hand she is no fool and does not want to play the OW part, even though she has in the past and to an extent still does. One of my 10 goals was to grow a little more hair on my *alls. I need to man up and do what needs to be done. Easier said than done. Thanks so much.
frannie Posted May 26, 2007 Posted May 26, 2007 Well if you're having sex and she's telling you she loves you... then where did the 'we're just friends' thing come from..? At the same time I type this I remember... um... you're still married! Have you read a few of the OW threads here..? I know you've made a few less than flattering comments about OW on your thread, and make it a point somehow of her tending towards OW status as being HER fault... but what choice are you actually giving her..? Are you wanting to damn her because she loves you and calls you and that makes her 'tending to' being an OW but at the same time complaining because she's not there for you..? She's a woman who is at the very least interested in you, and can do no more without you condemning her, and yet you want reassurance from her of perfection and an unproblematic future while you're still married.. poor girl... what the hell can she do? heh. Nothing. The manning up you talk about... is that about seeing the divorce through and thinking about a future of self-reliance and looking for an equal-footing relationship..?
Author 2005lexus Posted May 26, 2007 Author Posted May 26, 2007 I think through all the comments and my own posts I see the light a little more. Maybe she does love me and want to be with me but I am making it hard for her by not finalizing my divorce already. I was looking at things as though she needed to prove herself before I sped things up with the divorce, and as you know I am afraid of the being alone part. I think as hard as it needs to be I have to cut it off with her, because as long as I am still married, even though moved out and all, she cannot live up to my expectations of what I need in order to believe in her love. The things a woman normally does for her man who is single and free. It has been a long day so I am coming back here tomorrow and re-reading my posts as well as the replies. This seems like a heck of a lot of counseling for free. Thanks much.
frannie Posted May 26, 2007 Posted May 26, 2007 I think as hard as it needs to be I have to cut it off with her, because as long as I am still married, even though moved out and all, she cannot live up to my expectations of what I need in order to believe in her love. The things a woman normally does for her man who is single and free. Yes, and vice-versa... the things you need to do for her, you can't do for her because you are still married to another. It's not just about her and her actions and her abilities... It's not going to be ok for either of you until you have sorted yourself you I don't think... Anyway, best of luck lexus. And all I'd say is that if you still believe in your feelings for her, at least be honest with her when/if you cut it off or whatever you do. Honesty really is the best thing for a relationship... without it you're both sailing in the dark.
frannie Posted May 26, 2007 Posted May 26, 2007 my expectations of what I need in order to believe in her love. Ack, that just made me think of something else, hmm.... Needing her to do things or behave in a way so you believe in her love... well. .. this is a fraught area. I think you're very sensible to decide to go over your posts and replies already, because there's an important issue here. There's just her loving you... ... and there's you feeling 'enough love'... sometimes people don't feel enough love to make them feel good..? You know what I mean..? Because they 'need' love to make them feel good. And I think a few of your posts have gone in the direction of 'not feeling loved enough'... ... that isn't in any way soluble by someone 'loving you'... it's more like something lacking in you that you need to sort out yourself. No one can love you enough to fill a void in yourself... ever. OK, this is just something I've learnt over the years... but if you have a space in yourself that needs filling... its basically a bottomless pit. No one's love is going to make that go away. ... so she can love you very much, be a really great partner in every single way she can be, and you still feel 'empty'... that is a situation you need to sort out for yourself. IF that is how it feels. Hm. Maybe that's what you were saying in your post anyway. Anyway... hope you sleep well and so on.
GreenEyedLady Posted May 27, 2007 Posted May 27, 2007 I agree with your posts Frannie...2005, you seem to expect a whole lot from her, but what are you giving her?
Author 2005lexus Posted May 27, 2007 Author Posted May 27, 2007 I gave her what I could given my circumstances. So far since December I paid her bills and took care of her as if I was her full time man. To the tune of $30,000, helping with her mortgage, bill etc. I gave her all my energy, time and emotion. I basically overloaded her, and probably did all that in error because deep down I think she didn't earn it. My expectations of her were high because of the effort I put into her. I guess thats not fair because I can't force someone to perform based on what I do. As far as the bottomless pit of love, there is some truth to that. I almost "feel" as though I am in search of something, and that something seems a lot like the attention and affection I crave from her. Since I don't have it 100% I am in pursuit of it. If I get it who knows if I will really be satisfied.
GreenEyedLady Posted May 27, 2007 Posted May 27, 2007 I gave her what I could given my circumstances. So far since December I paid her bills and took care of her as if I was her full time man. To the tune of $30,000, helping with her mortgage, bill etc. I gave her all my energy, time and emotion. I basically overloaded her, and probably did all that in error because deep down I think she didn't earn it. My expectations of her were high because of the effort I put into her. I guess thats not fair because I can't force someone to perform based on what I do.. I think that she has given you what she could, given the circumstances...and you seem to focus alot on the $$ part of it...when one gives from their heart, they don't expect anything back... Another worrisome statement is that she didn't earn it? Love isn't like that...If you're keeping score, perhaps you're both better off without each other...
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