A little bit shocked!

[Babybird]

MM and I have been together about a year and a half. I had/have a deadline in my head of July 4th that if he hadn't left that we would be through. He was unaware of this. We had a conversation the other night that him and the W are putting their house up for sale BUT not because they were splitting up. Because when their son goes to college, or joins the service they didn't want such a big house. I couldn't understand why he didn't come clean and say he was unhappy etc. but I let it go. I have my plan and I intended to keep it.

 

She left him.

 

I almost rear-ended the car in front of me when he told me. She told him that she wasn't in love with him anymore but she still loved him, had been staying as long as she could for their sons sake, but couldn't stay married to him any longer. She met another guy, has feelings for him and wants to pursue a R with him. She says that she hasn't crossed the line yet but she wants a divorce before she does.

 

He is in shock. Obviously, he has been cheating on her for the past year but never expected her to drop this bombshell on him. He doesn't think that she has any clue about us because she would've brought it up. His reaction is puzzling. I asked him how he was and his reply was shocked. His whole demeanor is different. Kind of distant, and even though he's speaking about what happened to me there is something different. He is totally void of emotion. No anger, or sadness. Granted, that will probably come after a day or two. I finally asked if he needed some space to get things straight in his head. He said something that I didn't quite understand "Well I do but I don't want to lose you". Hmmm...what's that? I answered that with if he needed some time away, to step back and look at our R and let his M end then all he had to do was let me know. I don't want him to feel like he is walking straight from one R to anther. Which, holy crap, is totally whacked! Why wouldn't I want him to walk straight into my arms?

 

Because I'm scared. This is what I have wanted. To have him to myself. And now that the opportunity has arrived I don't know what to say or do. Is that strange? All of the things that I have been reading on this website for the past few months are swirling around in my head. If we're together is he going to cheat on me? Is a huge part of our R based on the excitement and thrill of doing something naughty? Are things going to be totally different? When my confidence level should be sky high right now I am feeling totally insecure. Is he going to tell her he doesn't want the M to end and he wants to work at it? I mean seriously, I am being totally paranoid right now(and I know after months here that I have every reason to be paranoid). This is so weird to me.

 

I do think that he loves me. I just wonder if this love that we have, that started wrapped up in lies and sneaking, is enough to make it last in the real word. Outside the boundaries of my house things are different. When people know they start to contribute their two cents and I hope that doesn't effect us.

 

SO any words of advice...I need to take things slow and I don't want to pressure him on 'us', but words of advice and....wow I don't even know how to ask. What should I do now???

[GreenEyedLady]

I think that you're feeling insecure because it's kinda like winning by default (and I hope you don't misunderstand using the word winning here)...

 

Second, he's a man and motivated by competition...so there's the worry of him wanting her back so that the OM won't have her...

 

Third and maybe this should have been first, but no one wants to get left, they want to be the one leaving...

 

How do you feel about it? I think that if you think that you should take time off, take time off...don't let him make all the decisions...make the best decision for you...

 

As for his W, I'm glad that she's found someone else who might make her happy...

[Frances]

It has ofter been said that you should not start another relationship until there is closure with the present one, that all lose ends should be looked after and then people have a better idea what they want. Your MM's W is doing just that. She is more honest than he is , so her new R may stand a better chance of survival than yours. He as you know is a liar, he lied to her and you can bet he lied to you. He is a cake eater. He is also like "The dog in the manger" He does not really want her but will not want anyone else to have her.

 

She of course most likly sensed him withdraw from the Marriage and decided to get on with her own.

 

You need to give him enough space and also yourself space to know what you want. Now that he maybe free you might find you do not want him at all. So far you only see what he wants you to see, but now with more time to see you, you might see too much of what he is really like.

 

Do not let him use you anymore than he has already.

[LucreziaBorgia]

You'll have to understand that his relationship with you is probably the last thing on his mind right now. Just because a man cheats on his wife, doesn't mean he isn't hurt and upset when his wife leaves him for someone else. He'll need some time to process this, and anything you do to push your relationship with him right now will be met with at best 'distance' and at worst outright resentment.

 

On some level, he is probably misguiding some anger - thinking "if only I had never met OW, then my wife probably wouldn't have left me". Not rational exacty, but you wouldn't be the first OW who found herself at the recieving end of subconscious anger and resentment from her MM. You represent a disturbance in the status quo - even though he chose you, and wanted to be with you, now that his wife skipped out on him he will still on some level blame you for it.

 

My guess? He is going to tell you that he needs "time" and "space", will cut you off more or less and then is going to go behind your back and do everything in his power to try to win his wife back. Why? Because like GEL said, he's a man. He is in direct competition now with some man who is "stealing his wife".

 

I expect right now his shock comes from being used to having a full meal, and a little side dish with a roll on it. Someone came along and took his whole meal away, and left him with nothing but a tiny side dish with a roll on it. You can have a meal with a roll, but you can't make a meal entirely out of a roll. He wants his entire meal back, and he wants to keep his roll on the side too.

 

Don't hold your breath waiting for him to make you the "complete meal". He likes you in the context of "other woman", and doesn't sound too comfortable with you as "only woman". At least not yet - maybe with time, and if his wife can continue to push him away he will begin the process of transitioning you from 'other woman' to 'only woman'. His wife has to continue to reject him though, and he has to be willing to let her go. Perhaps with some time, he will see that he has no choice but to either be alone or be with you, and will give up the notion of having his life back to 'normal' and will start a new one with you.

 

I can understand why you would be worried about this. If he comes to you, it will be because his wife left him for someone else - not because he chose you over his wife. Will that be a factor in his future cheating? Not sure, but the saying "history repeats itself" comes to mind.

[PoshPrincess]

I think that you're feeling insecure because it's kinda like winning by default (and I hope you don't misunderstand using the word winning here)...

 

Couldn't agree more; that's exactly what I was thinking when reading your post, BabyBird. It's the perfect solution for you - but then again, it isn't. When I was with MM I think I would've felt cheated (in a weird kind of way) if the same thing had happened. I wanted him to leave because that was what HE wanted, not because he was forced into it. That said, don't beat yourself up if you do end up together thinking that it's only because his wife ended their M. The fact is, IMO, that women seem to be stronger when it comes to making emotional decisions. Men would rather go with the flow for a quiet life. He has had the kick up the ass that he needed, that's all. I don't think he has necessarily changed his mind about being with you. His male pride is hurt - could be as simple as that! W has chosen to be with another man over him. I remember asking my exMM how he would feel if his W left him for someone else and he said that he would only be upset from a male pride point of view. In all honesty, your MM should be relieved that he isn't the one inflicting the hurt. I think my exMM wanted the decision taken out of his hands, wanted W to leave him, so that from his kids point of view at least, he wasn't the bad guy.

 

I am sure your MM will come to terms with things soon. He must be pretty shocked - his M has ended. I DO think it may be a good idea for you to give him some time to sort his head out. I started a R with a SG after finishing with MM and now I wish I hadn't as I have never given myself time to get over MM. Take a step back and let HIM come to you when he is ready. I know this is going to be SO hard for you. When exMM and I had agreed NC of two weeks so that he could sort his life out, it was the longest two weeks of my entire life. I can't promise you that you will be any the wiser after. I would say let him have as long as he wants. Don't put a time on it; after all, everyone's recovery period for broken Rs is different. He will have a lot to sort out, financially too. Of course, if he needs you, be there for him, but don't let him use you to make himself feel better. Be strong.

 

Best of luck x

[Babybird]

You guys have a lot of great advice and opinions.

 

I think you all hit the nail on the head: I wish he would have left her. It isn't the same when she gives him the boot. Now I will never know if he would have left her.

 

I am going to give him space. Well as much space as I can give when we work together, but outside of work I will let him be. Let him make the contact.

 

Will fill you all in later. Gotta go to work.

[BurriedAlive]

You know, every girl wants a guy to fight for her. For an OW there isn't a bigger sign of love than for a MM to leave his W because he couldn't live without her. Unfortunately this happens very rarely.

 

I think the others are right. He wanted it all - his W and you on the side. I remember having the same thoughts as you when D day came and it looked in the short term that W was going to leave my xMM. I got all paranoid thinking I didn't want to be his second choice (which I was all along anyway). Then I got worried that he wouldn't want me at all even if W left.

 

BB - I really hope it all works out for you. Everything happens for a reason! If you guys are meant to be, it will work out.

[Owl]

Actually LB...she probably DID leave him due to OW being in the picture.

 

I think Frances is right...she felt the emotional withdrawl in the marriage caused by him emotionally investing in OW...and rather than do like most BS's do and fight back, she simply sought out that emotional comfort in someone else...doing the exact same thing that he was doing.

 

Her leaving him is absolutely no different than him leaving her. He's in shock that she cheated on him, he's deeply hurt by what she's done, he never expected it...the fact that he was about to do the exact same thing isn't even in his mind at the moment.

 

End result? Three (or four, depending on how things pan out with her OM) unhappy people at the moment. Rough times for everyone.

 

BB- be prepared to deal with things if he suddenly starts fighting to save that marriage he was about to give up. He's suddenly seeing things in a totally different light, and right now there's no telling what direction he's likely to charge off to. Just batten down your hatches, and take care of yourself at this point in the storm. See what happens as this all plays out, and deal with things from there is about all I can suggest for you.

[whichwayisup]

His ego has been hurt as he wasn't the one to decide to end the marriage. I agree with Owl, he may react now knowing what he could lose. It's alot different when someone else makes the decision.......And, for a long time he's had two women in his life, so he was calling all the shots, so to speak.

 

You're doing the right thing by giving him space, he's going to need to time to grieve and process things, and the last thing you want to be right now is his shoulder to cry on. He can find a male friend for that, not you.

 

Keep busy, enjoy time with your own friends and family.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

BB,

 

He is undoubtably hurt by her actions but my guess is it will be short lived. Also, the fact that his wife is leaving for someone else gives much less chance that any reconciliation will be possible. I forgot that you worked with MM but I believe that his is ONE instance that that might just work to your advantage.

 

I would not ASK him if he needed room I would insist on giving it. A little distance would do you well. In the mean time, a little dating just for fun wouldn't hurt. You actually do have a chance to allow him to fight for you as you are on equal ground as two singles. I would absolutely use that to my advantage and to see how worthy of a fighter he might be. You have alot more control over the situation NOW than you think that you do. He expected his wife to act in a certain way and to be happy with only what he was giving her as well as allowing himself to get so caught up as to not have a clue that she was missing anything or had fallen in love with someone else. He thought he was sailing through keeping 2 women and hisself happy. Men who cheat without an immediate plan to leave feel that keeping up both women is an accomplishment. When his wife took control of her own destiny, sure he was brought down to reality.

 

Give him an opportunity to fight for you by pulling back. And Bully for his wife for finding her own happiness and not buying into the illusion he was trying to paint for all of you! My hat is off to her. Looks like EVERYONE is getting what they wanted!

[mopar crazy]

I think that you're feeling insecure because it's kinda like winning by default (and I hope you don't misunderstand using the word winning here)...

Sorry, but I don't see this as winning at all. Even if he does go to be w/ her in the end it's not b/c she "won" it's b/c he chose to go to her b/c his M ended, by the W's choice, not his. If she really would of "won" he would of left his W a long time ago.

 

He needs some time to get his life, emotions, etc, in order. Even though he is a pr!ck for cheating on his W it's obvious he is hurting that his W wants a D and is seeing another guy.

 

I don't feel sorry for him at all! Even if W didn't know about you he was still cheating. I don't agree w/ W leaving him for another man either though.

 

I don't even need to read all what Owl and WWIU said to know that I would agree w/ them both.

[GreenEyedLady]

Sorry, but I don't see this as winning at all. Even if he does go to be w/ her in the end it's not b/c she "won" it's b/c he chose to go to her b/c his M ended, by the W's choice, not his./quote]

 

You're totally misconstruing what I meant and instead proving what I meant...that's why I said don't misunderstand the way I was using the word "winning"...

 

How does anyone feel when they don't win something outright? Although, I don't mean to imply that it's a contest anyway...I was just trying to find a feeling that would be somewhat comparable...

[pureinheart]

Wow....some really excellent advice here.....

 

I understand how you feel, the wanting him, then kinda scared too....I wondered myself many times if it could really work with ex-mm....

 

Time is on your side, give yourself some time if needed because the situation has taken you for a loop as well....most of the time in these types of R we tend to be completely selfless, forgetting our feelings, what we want ect...

 

I am sorda in your situation ....ex-mm's w left him several months ago....I found out through a mutual friend. I had not been in contact with him for about 10 mo and then he contacted me several times a week ago. I wanted to talk to him as I don't want to be enemies.

 

In talking to him a few times I saw much....even though this is what he wants also, it is still a major transition for him and he will not be fit for anyone for a very long time....

 

The reason I say that I am sorda in your situation is because I am going through the same questions in my mind and the conclusion I have come to is he may really not be for me....this is the possible closure I needed....even though I was so angry, and hated the lie, I still had feelings for him....but....we knew how to behave in the lie....do we know how to behave out of the lie....I do, but he might not....

[frannie]

Because I'm scared. This is what I have wanted. To have him to myself. And now that the opportunity has arrived I don't know what to say or do. Is that strange?

 

 

I do think that he loves me. I just wonder if this love that we have, that started wrapped up in lies and sneaking, is enough to make it last in the real word.

 

I have just written something about this in another thread... all that chase and unavailability and then all of a sudden you get what you want... it can turn things upside down. Plus you have a lot of reasons to worry, given that he sounds like he's about to go through a divorce... never a stable time. PLUS reading a billion scare stories on here won't help... so many people quoting 'if he loves you he'll leave for you' 'if he cheats with you he'll cheat on you'...

 

... to be quite honest I'd be surprised if you felt anything even NEAR satisfied and happy and secure right at this moment in time so no, it's not strange at all!

 

What should you do now..? Well I'd just play it by ear. This forum is full of NC and playing the rules, and doing 180 degree turns and goodness knows what. I think a lot of what's written here is written out of fear and hurt and a desire to control matters... situations AND other people.

 

Your MM has just had a huge shock... he thought he was the cheater and the one who wanted out, and he finds out that his wife has been seeing someone else, and waiting til the child reached 18 to drop her bombshell. That's going to take a while to digest.... his assumptions about his marriage, and his self will have taken a bit of a battering. And it wouldn't surprise me if he's suddenly uncertain, clingy, or conversely withdrawn (or all three in cycles).

 

Anyway, there's not many conclusions that can be drawn about things til they have panned out for a while, so that's what I'd do... just take things slowly, try not to over-think or react, and play things by ear. AND don't listen too much to negatives, because everyone could be wrong about everything.

[Babybird]

Sorry for taking so long to get back. It has been a very busy and interesting few days.

 

First: I told him I thought he needed space and time to make sure that his marriage ending was what he wanted and walked away. Absolutely not, no way, was he going to let me walk away. He said that his W walking away is the best thing that has ever happened to him. He looked me straight in the eye and told me that he knew that I had doubts the entire R and I need to know that nothing he told me was bullsh*t. He meant every word that he ever told me. His feeling are exactly what he said they were and he knows he has been a greedy, selfish coward.

 

Now the bad parts. His son is absolutely devastated. Not only did his father that he spent most of his time with move out, but mom took off for the weekend with her new BF. She told him everything, including that she had feelings for this man. But it gets even better. The BF is married. The BF's W called MM and told him how long the A had been going on(year and a half) and that she had busted them at the Holiday Inn Express the night W told MM she wanted a divorce. To make it even funnier BF's W asked MM out. LOL. Back to his son, W never even sat down and asked him how he was doing, spent anytime with him, and when she got home yesterday she went straight to bed. That is just crappy. This kid cried for damn near 24 hours straight and she ignored it. Needless to say he wants to come live with his dad.

 

MM still had sex with his W. I had to ask. I wish I hadn't but I really needed to know. He said in the past 6 months they had sex maybe 5 times. Which in all honesty wasn't any different than before they started having really big problems aka before me and her BF I guess. That stung. Because of what I have read here I was pretty prepared to here him say they still had sex, but pretty much in denial.

 

He is hurt. I wouldn't say absolutely crushed, but hurt. He thought he knew her and never expected anything like this from her. Then admitted that his pride was more wounded. Especially when BF's W was telling him the things BF said about his W in bed. He was floored. I said that he shouldn't be surprised about anything that he hears and then asked him if the way he is with me is the same as it was with her. That silenced him.

 

Good news: HE filed for divorce today. He moved in with his mother. I can actually call him. We went out in public for the first time last night, not in our town because its too soon(you know he's supposed to be the wounded H), but to a town about 5 minutes away and I had the most amazing time.

 

Oh, and I told him about the 4th of July deadline. He was shocked. He asked if I seriously would've dumped him. When I said yes that I deserved and wanted more, that I had been waiting for a year and a half already and wasn't willing to wait anymore, and no matter how much I loved him I was better than an A. He actually started crying. It was was almost liberating to get it off my chest and let him know exactly how much I was/had been hurting.

 

Will keep y'all posted about whats going on. Once again thanks for all of the advice. From this posting and all the other ones.

[scaredinlove]

You guys have a lot of great advice and opinions.

 

I think you all hit the nail on the head: I wish he would have left her. It isn't the same when she gives him the boot. Now I will never know if he would have left her.

 

I am going to give him space. Well as much space as I can give when we work together, but outside of work I will let him be. Let him make the contact.

 

Will fill you all in later. Gotta go to work.

 

It dosen't really matter if he left on his own or if she kicked him out. Althought I love that she did! It is your ego talking...

 

Search your heart and see if you really love him or not, if you really want to give it a try or not.

 

I guess giving him time will be a good idea. Right now his ego is hurt ,she took the carpet out of his feet. You probably need time too.

 

She leaving realisers you of any guilt or wrongdoing, now you know you are not the reason why they marriage ended and nobady can accuse you of a homewrecker or any other nonsense.

 

Be patient and hopefully things will turn OK for everybody. Good Luck!!!

[justagirliegirl]

Oh man this is great. MM sure was smug and ok as long as HE was the cheater!

 

OP I get the impression you are less enthusiastic about being with him now.

[WebGirl]

I just about fell off my chair when I read your post. This is exactly what happened with my MM about three weeks ago. EXACTLY.

 

However, I would love to talk with you more about this.

[TogetherForever]

BabyBird,

Good luck to you & your NEW relationship!!

Sometimes, it really does work out in the end.

Happiness to you & your man!!

[Babybird]

I just about fell off my chair when I read your post. This is exactly what happened with my MM about three weeks ago. EXACTLY.

 

However, I would love to talk with you more about this.

 

How is your MM doing? Is he having thoughts of going back to her?

 

 

I really think that my MM is still shocked. Then again so am I. I know his ego is hurting because every time he says what happened he says "She left me", not we split up or we're getting divorced. Someone in a post a little ways back said my ego is too. They were right. I think it is a little bit. I think it would've been....reassuring I guess you could say to know that he was actually that unhappy that he left. It's one of those things where you don't want them to leave for you or because of you but if they did leave in a way you know you had some effect on his decision and hopefully the effect is from the love he feels for you.

 

I have asked if he misses her, not the home environment but the everyday seeing her. He says in a strange way he does miss her but more like the way someone that quit smoking 10 years ago misses a cigarette not like a man misses a woman.

 

Justagirliegirl: I don't think it was fine as long as he was the cheater, but I don agree that anyone that is cheated on will feel some sort of anger, and feel like they weren't good enough. Example: when my exH and I split I was hurt that he didn't even suggest MC. I wasn't upset that the M ended but that I realized that he didn't want me. Does that make any sense? My pride was hurt. He was supposed to love me and want to work on things even if I didn't. I know that sounds narcissistic and maybe it is but its honest.

 

I am thrilled to be with him. I am also scared. I want this man. I love him so much at times it terrifies me. After being on this site for a while I know that things can change. He could go back, and drop me, etc. and I guess I'm a little guarded. I don't want my heart broken. I imagine in a few weeks when it all stops being so surreal I will relax.

 

Scaredinlove: I never thought it about in the way that it does make me feel relieved of all the guilt. I was not the cause of the break-up. I am not saying that being with him didn't cause changes in his home but I wasn't directly related to the break-up because she left him. Hmmm..interesting. I think I just had a Freud moment with myself. LOL

 

Frannie: Thank you. I needed that.

[whichwayisup]

Then take-it-slooowwly. Don't move in together, start dating. Don't have sex with him. Kind of like starting like scratch. Do dinner dates and have fun!

 

He probably needs time alone too, for obvious reasons...

[NoIDidn't]

I never thought it about in the way that it does make me feel relieved of all the guilt. I was not the cause of the break-up. I am not saying that being with him didn't cause changes in his home but I wasn't directly related to the break-up because she left him. Hmmm..interesting. I think I just had a Freud moment with myself. LOL

 

Her leaving him does not absolve you of any guilt. That just doesn't make any sense. She left because he changed towards her. I concede that may have had little to do with you, but you still DID have an A with HER H. There should be some guilt if for no other reason than that.

 

Is this a new rule: its okay to have an affair if the cheated on spouse leaves before the cheater does. That makes it okay? I don't think so.

 

Her leaving does not absolve you OR him of any of the guilt of his lies and betrayal of their marriage OR YOUR helping him to do so.

[Babybird]

Her leaving him does not absolve you of any guilt. That just doesn't make any sense. She left because he changed towards her. I concede that may have had little to do with you, but you still DID have an A with HER H. There should be some guilt if for no other reason than that.

 

Is this a new rule: its okay to have an affair if the cheated on spouse leaves before the cheater does. That makes it okay? I don't think so.

 

Her leaving does not absolve you OR him of any of the guilt of his lies and betrayal of their marriage OR YOUR helping him to do so.

 

 

Actually, she started having the A before he even met me. Hers started beginning of November '06 and ours started at the end of Feb '07. I would imagine her changing towards him was why he and I began. Now that he knows he can look back and see changes. Her sudden urge to change her body, like tanning and power walking. Her sudden stop in going places with him, and then the sex thing. He said the last few times they had sex she was a lot different than ever before. I was always shocked that she hadn't figured out he was having an A, but I guess when you don't really look and pay attention you won't see the signs. I would like to think I would've known but I guess not.

 

Anyways, I have said before and still agree with he was the one breaking the vows and cheating, not me. I didn't break vows and I didn't cheat on my H. I don't want to see anyone hurt, not the W and especially not his son and our A did neither one of these things. So what do I need absolution from?

 

I will admit that a couple of months ago when we thought his W found out then I was feeling guilty. The question is was the guilt from the actual act of having the A or from being, or almost being, caught? My guess, personally speaking, is that it was from almost being caught.

[WebGirl]

How is your MM doing? Is he having thoughts of going back to her?

 

 

I really think that my MM is still shocked. Then again so am I. I know his ego is hurting because every time he says what happened he says "She left me", not we split up or we're getting divorced. Someone in a post a little ways back said my ego is too. They were right. I think it is a little bit. I think it would've been....reassuring I guess you could say to know that he was actually that unhappy that he left. It's one of those things where you don't want them to leave for you or because of you but if they did leave in a way you know you had some effect on his decision and hopefully the effect is from the love he feels for you.

 

Any chance you could email me? webgirl76(at)gmail(dot)com?

 

To everyone else on the board, I apologise for taking this offline, but I would really love to speak with BB candidly without fear of judgment or reproach. I hope you'll understand.

 

cheers,

WebGirl

[GreenEyedLady]

Girls! Do NOT post your email addresses on the forum!!!