Husband not dealing with an issue with our daughter

[Storyrider]

Hi Sally. I'm going to guess your H feels guilty and has some self esteem issues about his worthiness as a father, given his background. I'll bet the reason he is scared to talk to your daughter is that he feels too horrible about what happened. He doesn't want to seem like a perv in front of her, or show his weaker side by seeming guilty or shaky. In addition, discussing it with her requires him to talk about sexual issues with his daughter. Many dads feel uncomfortable with that. He may be worried his relationship with her has changed forever. That is pretty heavy.

 

Maybe you two need to talk again privately, to help him brainstorm a safe-feeling script about exactly what he will contribute to the conversation with her. But the discussion between the two of you won't be productive so long as you're still angry with him. You know what I mean?

 

I feel for you and wish you luck with this.

[IpAncA]

Maybe I should let sleeping dogs lie. She doesn't seem to want to talk about with him, either. And he has moved the porn to a secure place. Maybe I should be grateful that I have a H who is not completely hiding this stuff away from me? I realize now, after the initial madness has gone down, that I don't want a bunch of dishonesty between him and me regarding porn-use. That would be even more counterproductive.

 

Sure no problem.

 

I know others think you should talk to her about this but IMO if she doesn't want to talk about it, don't make her. Especially with her father.

 

 

Maybe you two need to talk again privately, to help him brainstorm a safe-feeling script about exactly what he will contribute to the conversation with her. But the discussion between the two of you won't be productive so long as you're still angry with him. You know what I mean?

 

But if you do, this is helpful.

[tanbark813]

Even though I knew about that stuff at my age, I still didn't want to know what my parents were doing. Let alone what my father was looking at.

 

At least you didn't walk in on him "using" it.

 

IpAncA walks in...

 

IpAncA --->

 

IpAncA's Dad --->

 

IpAncA --->

[StartingOver07]

My kids very much want to be talked with about sex (they are 15g, 12b and 8g -- the 8g is not as interested as the other two), but they would much rather talk to me than their dad and this has always been the case. I like to think that this is because I am able to talk to them in a more matter-of-fact way whereas he seems to be lecturing slightly (as a result of not being entirely comfortable), but the bottom line here is that while I understand your feelings that your husband has to take responsibility for his actions, etc., I think that the issue of who should talk to your daughter, and how, should be answered by looking at what will be best for her

 

Unfortunately, that may mean that you have to be the one to talk to her.

 

And while it may be true that she didn't hear your conversation with your husband after the discovery, I suspect she realizes that her discovery was upsetting to you, too, and although she may not seem bothered, I think you have to have at least a brief conversation to put closure on the matter.

 

I don't see why you can't say something to the effect that different people enjoy exploring their sexuality in different ways and one way that some people like to do that is by looking at pictures of other people. Without knowing exactly what she saw, I am thinking that this may suffice. She may also need to understand that these are pictures of people who are paid to have their picture taken, i.e., these are not people you or your husband knows. But I don't think you necessarily have to get into an in-depth conversation about porn unless she seems curious or asks questions.

 

As a separate issue, you may want to discuss with your husband why the files were downloaded at the time they were and/or your feelings of being the "responsible" parent. But I don't think that you should force him into a conversation with your daughter at this point unless it is going to benefit HER.

[Mustang Sally]

Hi Sally. I'm going to guess your H feels guilty and has some self esteem issues about his worthiness as a father, given his background. I'll bet the reason he is scared to talk to your daughter is that he feels too horrible about what happened. He doesn't want to seem like a perv in front of her, or show his weaker side by seeming guilty or shaky. In addition, discussing it with her requires him to talk about sexual issues with his daughter. Many dads feel uncomfortable with that. He may be worried his relationship with her has changed forever. That is pretty heavy.

Yeah. Kid realizes parents actually have SEX.

 

Parents realize kids realize they actually have sex!!!

 

Kind of like when you have to face your parents' mortality. Or your own.

 

Maybe you two need to talk again privately, to help him brainstorm a safe-feeling script about exactly what he will contribute to the conversation with her. But the discussion between the two of you won't be productive so long as you're still angry with him. You know what I mean?

I will offer this to him if he is interested.

I admit, I am angry at him for me feeling like I always have to be the parent in the tough situations. And the more mature part of my brain realizes that is likely unfair to him. The selfish (and louder) part of my brain is still just mad about it.

 

Writing all this down has got me thinking about other things that have happened, like when our son (1st grade) got in trouble for verbally threatening another kid (bully) at school.

 

I was the one who went to meet with him and the principal. I was the one who talked to son about the whole thing. Several weeks later, bully threatened (physically) son again. Son verbally threatened back (he's too small of a wirey twerp to take on that big lug of a kid physically) and landed himself in the office again. H did go that time, because I couldn't leave work that day, but when I asked him about it later, such as what did you two and principal talk about? "Nothing. I didn't think there was anything more to say." I said, "Did you make him apologize to (the bully) for verbally threatening him?" because I made him do that the first time. He said "No." Maybe it's a guy thing? I don't know.

 

Now I have gotten off-topic in my own thread. But this lack of (what I perceive to be) a teamwork approach to parenting our kids is getting to me.

[tanbark813]

Several weeks later, bully threatened (physically) son again. Son verbally threatened back (he's too small of a wirey twerp to take on that big lug of a kid physically) and landed himself in the office again. H did go that time, because I couldn't leave work that day, but when I asked him about it later, such as what did you two and principal talk about? "Nothing. I didn't think there was anything more to say." I said, "Did you make him apologize to (the bully) for verbally threatening him?" because I made him do that the first time. He said "No." Maybe it's a guy thing? I don't know.

 

I have to agree with your husband on this one. I was always the smallest kid in class growing up and I can tell you first hand that if you don't learn to stand up for yourself you just get f**ked with more. Good for your son for standing up to someone much bigger than him. It's not surprising that after he apologized the first time he got bullied a second.

[Mustang Sally]

Awww, Geez Tan.

 

I am really on your Flog-list today, aren't I?

 

Old Mom screwed up again.

 

I like to think he got bullied again because the parents of the bully refused to acknowledge their own son's responsibility in the altercation and make him acknowledge it. They didn't make him apologize to my son or anything.

 

Guess you and I might just have to agree to disagree. But anyway, I do still appreciate your input. And I realize that others (men, mostly?) might have a different view on how I handled that situation...

[tanbark813]

Awww, Geez Tan.

 

I am really on your Flog-list today, aren't I?

 

Old Mom screwed up again.

 

I like to think he got bullied again because the parents of the bully refused to acknowledge their own son's responsibility in the altercation and make him acknowledge it. They didn't make him apologize to my son or anything.

 

Guess you and I might just have to agree to disagree. But anyway, I do still appreciate your input. And I realize that others (men, mostly?) might have a different view on how I handled that situation...

 

Sorry, just being honest. I'm sure you're a good mom I just don't think he should be punished for standing up for himself, IMHO.

[IpAncA]

At least you didn't walk in on him "using" it.

 

IpAncA walks in...

 

IpAncA --->

 

IpAncA's Dad --->

 

IpAncA --->

 

Pretty much.

 

As for "using" well I left that out. Seen it once (he doesn't know) and let me say I was scared to leave my room at night and if I did, I made sure he knew I was coming out. And when I came out, I walked really fast past the room.

 

If I could erase certain images, that is one of them.

[Touche]

Our son is always the smallest in his class and occasionally gets bullied too. Same thing happened..son stood up to him though. The school made them both apologize to each other but we've taught him to stand up for himself regardless of the school's policy (which is against it, apparently.)

 

It was a tough call because we generally teach him to respect rules. We just don't agree with that one.

[IpAncA]

I have to agree with your husband on this one. I was always the smallest kid in class growing up and I can tell you first hand that if you don't learn to stand up for yourself you just get f**ked with more. Good for your son for standing up to someone much bigger than him. It's not surprising that after he apologized the first time he got bullied a second.

Sorry MS but I agree with TB.

 

Even though I'm a girl my father always told me to stand up for myself. I wasn't in trouble if I didn't start it. Only if I did.

 

I use to get picked on but once I was given the okay I slammed that kid against the lockers. Never messed with me again.

 

And yes I'll bet you $100 if your son said he was sorry to that kid, he would get made fun of for it. He'd probably get "oh did you your mommy...." etc...

[Mustang Sally]

Sorry, just being honest. I just don't think he should be punished for standing up for himself, IMHO.

I understand. And seriously, I appreciate your (and everyone else's) honesty. That is what makes this such a great place for me to try to work through my sh*t.

 

I don't know if I would have had a problem with him standing up for himself, persay, but he told the kid he was going to bring a gun to school and shoot him.

 

After Columbine (this was before VA Tech) you just can't go around saying crap like that, even when you're seven.

 

I don't even know where that crap came from! It's not like we are gun-toting hillbillies at our house! And we watch the media input (well, except for H's porn, of course! ) with those kids like fiends...

 

Probably heard some older kid say it on the school bus.

 

Anyway, I like to think he was rather crafty about it, in his own way. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he should have said it, and he knows that, in no uncertain terms. But he said it sure made (the bully) go the other way...

[IpAncA]

 

I don't know if I would have had a problem with him standing up for himself, persay, but he told the kid he was going to bring a gun to school and shoot him.

 

Oh....well you can't say that to someone at school.

[reddog63]

Ok, I have been trying to think how to handle this situation. With both H and daughter (who is 5th grade, FYI).

 

The other night, daughter was on the computer (our family computer network is down right now, so everyone is using the "main" computer - which is also H's computer) and all of a sudden she gets up from the screen abruptly and comes into the next room (comp is in adjacent room off of family rm, with open walkway between so we can monitor kids usage better) to me and says, "Mom, I'm so MAD at dad! He is disgusting!"

 

Needless to say, I was shocked at hearing this and so I asked what was wrong. She brought me into the comp room so other sibs wouldn't hear her and told me that she had been trying to change the screen saver on the comp to surprise her father, by putting up pics of her and the other kids (you know, a slideshow thing) and the comp program defaulted to a slide show of all the pics in his "my pictures" folder. All of a sudden porn pics start flashing on the screen!

 

Now, maybe this would be funny to some of you, but I sure didn't think so. I have always tried to have a fairly open mind about porn, and understand the "men are visual" thing, etc. But I didn't even realize he had that kind of collection on his computer! And the file was not even password protected! WTF???? He KNOWS the kids get on his computer! What kind of dumba$$.....

 

Anyway, I didn't know how to respond to daughter OR H (who was at work at the time). I called him up and told him he was a pig (in a fit of rage that I was having to deal with this at bedtime for the four kids....with him conveniently at work....) and a bunch of other not-nice stuff. Then I told D that she should talk to her father about it.

 

The thing is, H and I occasionally enjoy porn together, and I have no problem with this. He also uses some of it "by himself" from time to time (I don't know how often, maybe more often that I thought....) and again, I am ok with that AS LONG AS it doesn't replace our relationship OR affect the kids. Is that crazy of me?

 

I hate to start another porn thread, and the purpose of this is NOT to debate whether porn is ok or not. Seriously. We have worked through this (or so I thought) in our M.

 

But I obviously don't want our daughter (or other kids) to have exposure to that business at this point. And I have worked and am working to try to help them develop healthy attitudes towards sexuality - I don't want to foster an attitude of repression OR promiscuity. I want them to respect their bodies and feelings and the bodies and feelings of their future partners.

 

I told him he needed to address this with her, but he had all day yesterday to do so, and he hasn't said a word to her about it. Not sure what I should do now. Something? Nothing?

 

 

Have not read all the responses...........and I understand how you were upset from what happened.........and that hubby was at fault for leaving on the computer.......but one comment comes to mind. If I made that mistake and my wife called me at work to call me a pig, etc............I do not think the marriage would last too long...........

[Mustang Sally]

Have not read all the responses...........and I understand how you were upset from what happened.........and that hubby was at fault for leaving on the computer.......but one comment comes to mind. If I made that mistake and my wife called me at work to call me a pig, etc............I do not think the marriage would last too long...........

Yeah, I hear you. Admittedly, not my most rational moment.

 

Don't think we're likely to get divorced over it though. There is too much other bad blood that gets higher priority!

 

But your point about that being a statement about the general health of the M is well taken. And I am the first to admit that it is not good. If you want more details, you can read some of my other posts. Or not.

[hotgurl]

Now I am curious what happened tot he bully did he get punished.

 

Now a days you can't threaten anything at school. Columbine changed a lot.

[directx]

Hi Mustang!

 

Ok, here is my take on the whole porn thing and its not convential at all so gather up your stones to throw.

 

First you say its not funny, and its not, but I admit I laughed. I can imagine the feeling of your H stomach sinking into oblivion when the whole family discovers his porn.

 

Now, I don't think its a traumatic experience for the child (assuming its mild porn) but hell its sure upsetting, especially since its your daughter that found it. (if you had a son the same age he probably would have closed the door and kept his mouth shut).

 

I remember growing up and my dad getting Playboy and Penthouse. It was accepted as normal and we knew not to look at those magazines.

 

(on a side note, did you ever watch Fat Albert? There is a great episode of Rudy getting a collection of porno mags and his mother finds him. He is all embarrassed but his mother comforted him and praised his curiousity. It was quite interesting)

 

So, the crime here isn't the porn but the sloppyness of your H leaving the porn so readily accessible to children. (He's obviously not a computer person because NO ONE in their right mind leaves porn in an obvious directory). I think whats pissing you off is how he is handling it after the fact.

I really think all that needs to be said by H to your daughter is 'Yeah, adults like looking at other nake adults. But you shouldnt be exposed to that and I apologize. I'm sure you heard of Playboy. Its a pretty classy magazine and read by adults everywhere, but its only for adults and I screwed up.' or something like that.

 

You can blow this up to be the end of the world but I dont think it should be.

 

All the password stuff you did is justified.

 

Now, what kind of porn was it? Is he paying for it? Where is he getting it? Is there a theme to it? You can totally torture him and embarrass him by insisting you both go through it together and you can make comments like 'Oh, is THAT what you like? I see...' and 'Oh look at this one! Something else you like that your never going to GET!'.

 

So in summary, kids have been finding the porn left by parents ever since the invention of the photograph, but with what is accessible now good control is required.

 

Being a daughter, you might want to have a mom/daughter talk to see what opinion your daughter has formed and if they need some clarification.

[directx]

With regard to bullying, enroll your kids young into a martial art. They'll get a confidence you cannot get anywhere else and most kids today need exercise anyway.

I recommend a grappling type art, like Judo because you can really take care someone bigger than you and most fights end up being wrestling matches anyway.

They won't fear confrontation much at all because they experience it physically ever class.

Bullys rely on fear and almost always insecure themselves.

 

When you are experienced in a martial art, you naturally size people up. Your kid will be doing this without realizing it and bullys dont like people with confidence.

 

IMO, the best way to take care of a bully is crack them right in the head.

[Mustang Sally]

Now I am curious what happened tot he bully did he get punished.

The bully, who was pushing kids (not just my son) down at recess, got a talking to (by principal) and then the administration had a bunch of special touchy-feely counseling sessions for the class re: don't be a bully and what to do about it if you are bullied.

 

My son, who didn't just go tell the teacher about the kid (not wanting to be thought of as a "tattle tale"), got sent home for the day.

[Sheba]

I don't mind being unpopular, so I will make an honest contribution to this thread.

 

First of all, I don't believe that everyone's sex lives include porn. In fact, you don't have to look far on this forum to see that porn can become a serious problem in a person's life or harm their relationship. While I certainly wouldn't dramatize the "evils" of porn to a child, I would not be off-hand about it either.

 

Further, Mustang Sally, I think your husband is a dolt. I find his "need" to save a bunch of porn on his home computer ridiculous. Why save things? It seems to me that the pictures in any given "category" are so very similar and easy to find that the harbouring of particular images is almost pointless. Saving these pictures on a family computer without hiding them or password protecting them is beyond careless.

 

I would have my own issues about finding that my husband was saving these images, but putting all that aside, with respect to a grade 5 daughter I think there is a real outstanding concern about her perception of her father and how he views women. Girls face a lot of social pressure about looking and behaving certain ways. It is far worse for our children than it was for us. Elementary school children are going on diets. Junior high school girls are offering boys oral sex in order to be "liked". Now your daughter has some additional information about what her own father finds important/appealing/acceptable. You/he need to try to overcome that, and I suggest strongly that you do it with bullsh*t.

 

I hope that you have looked through the images yourself to be sure there is nothing bizarre or disturbing. I doubt your daughter looked at the entire file - girls that age seem to be easily "grossed out" and I am sure that she closed it quickly - but still, you will want to make sure that your/his explanation to your daughter covers all necessary bases.

 

I would want my husband to make a point of telling my daughter, specifically, that he was just curious and that he shouldn't have saved those images. I think the message needs to be that "real women" -like you, her mother - are who he finds beautiful and appealing and that the pictures are not realistic but matters of curiousity. I think it is very important that she know that her father is not holding her to any surgically enhanced standard of beauty.

 

He should also tell her that those images don't depict ordinary sexual relationships between adults who love each other, and that she can speak with you or him when she is ready about how real relationships work.

 

Of course your daughter will see these images and unreal depictions of women elsewhere, but to me the real trouble is that she now sees these things as what appeals to the most important man in her life, her father. Her father needs to help her overcome this. To gain his cooperation, perhaps ask your husband about how he would feel if your daughter felt "ugly" because her breasts were too small, or how he would feel if she came to believe that to gain the interest of boys she should act like the women depicted on those images?

 

If it were me, the last thing I would want to leave my daughter with would be the idea that "this is just daddy's little stash of stuff he likes to look at, all men do it, don't worry about it".