Trialbyfire Posted May 23, 2007 Posted May 23, 2007 While comfortable silences can be tender moments, don't you want to be able to have lightening banter or sit down to some serious discussions about topics of mutual interest? I think you need balance. No one of reasonable intellect can be happy with solely discussing the emotional or spiritual. If it's only the physical that you're interested in, where's the mutual respect?
Krytellan Posted May 23, 2007 Posted May 23, 2007 I don't know about this. Sounds to me like you might be playing with fire. There is usually a reason people have such different education levels. Education of parents, family structure, socioeconomic status. The point is that the differences transcend family and many other aspects of life too. It will create many many challenges.
amerikajin Posted May 23, 2007 Posted May 23, 2007 IQ is over-rated. It measures to some degree one's ability to comprehend and their cumulative level of knowledge; it does not necessarily produce a quotient for things like what kind of social skills they have, how ambitious someone is, or how independent-minded he is, or how responsible one is with the checkbook and an ATM card, and whether that person has a strong work ethic. Those attributes are probably a lot more important than IQ. I've actually known people who were very average and relatively short on formal education who were extremely competent in other aspects of their lives. In fact, many of these people were successful businessmen. Talking to them about the fall of the Roman Empire might have proven a bit awkward, but talk to them about how to invest and they're in the game. Not to brag but I have a fairly high IQ myself, and yet the older I get the more I realize it really doesn't mean sh-t by itself. I've seen a lot of high-IQ people flat out fail miserably in life because they were so deeply buried in a world of books that they didn't even know how to tie their own shoelaces. I can definitely understand the bit about meaningful conversation. But you know something, you're not going to get everything you want in a partner - you're just not. Chances are, there are going to be some omissions somewhere, and sometimes those gaps might seem conspicuous. Who cares? You have to decide what's really important to you in a partner. Some people really need a conversationalist. Some want good sex. Some want just nothing more than good character. Generally speaking, I would agree that the closer you are in terms of education and attitudes, the more likely you are to succeed in a relationship. But I've seen some succeed despite the odds.
lindya Posted May 23, 2007 Posted May 23, 2007 .. but some of the things I read talked about successful relationships falling within a 10 point IQ difference of each other.. How did the people who carried out these studies know that the successful couples were matched in IQ? Did they test them under monitored conditions - or did they make assumptions based on factors such as university education and occupation? Sometimes a person's occupation reflects their personality and level of motivation as much as (if not more than) their IQ level. Is it really down to how close two people are in IQ - or does it have more to do with how similar they are in terms of their personality and cultural pursuits? I'm not a great fan of geek culture (Star Wars films, computer games and IT stuff), so from a "geek's" perspective that might mean I'm a bit of a dim low-brow. The geek and I might share the same IQ level, but we'd probably never be happy together because we're just not stimulated by the same things. Our personalities, experiences and emotional make-up are probably too different for us to ever really understand eachother. Conversely, if I met a guy who had an IQ 30 points lower than me - but who didn't sneer at my cultural tastes, was a match in terms of ethics and values as well as emotional and physical needs....and who also enjoyed the leisure pursuits I enjoy, I can't see why we couldn't find long term happiness together. I might be better at solving cryptic crosswords and completing IQ tests - but he may well excel at certain practical challenges I lack the patience, concentration and ability for. I agree with amerikajin. I think people invest far too much in IQ scores. Life experience, humour and general zest for life are the things that make a person interesting and fun to be with.
Touche Posted May 23, 2007 Posted May 23, 2007 Very good and thoughtful posts by Amerikajin and Lindya. The bottom line for me though would be the answer to this question: Do I have a lifelong companion in this person or is the attraction fleeting? That's a tough question to answer. And it involves a lot of introspection. It involves a lot of time too with the person in question, BT. Can you picture yourself with this person over the long haul? If he's not mentally challenging and interesting to you, can you live with that? Most friends come and go but your partner is supposed to be for life. You have to just give it time and be honest in answering these questions for yourself. Also, having an intellectual curiosity, is important. Maybe his IQ isn't as high as yours but does he have that thirst for knowledge and discovery about things. That can factor into your decision as well. Take your time and get to know him and you will have all your answers in time.
Trialbyfire Posted May 23, 2007 Posted May 23, 2007 I'll only add two more questions. If this intellectual difference doesn't bother you, why would you be asking this question on LS? Do you not only want him but honestly respect him?
dropdeadlegs Posted May 23, 2007 Posted May 23, 2007 Wow! 50 IQ points IS a big difference, but you ARE freakishly high in that area. What is the max, anyway? Then again, I once tested at 154, two years later I was 129. Did I lose that many points, or are the tests subjective? Maybe I took some lucky guesses on that high scoring test? Who knows. I'm sure I'm above average and have some good logic skills. I'm also pretty challenged in matters of emotion and that has made me somewhat psycho at times. Doesn't the world just love an emotional psycho? Mozart was a genius and he was wacko, but he sure wrote some beautiful music when in his OCD mode. Sometimes high intelligence equals an imbalance in other areas, not that I am referring to you, blue tuesday. I LIKE blue collar guys. They are easy going and my world is complicated enough. I don't need my man to stimulate my mind and it probably goes back to my father. He has a wide array of general knowledge and if you don't agree with him you are just stupid. I see my mother adopting his opinions all the time and my choice of "simpler" men may be my way of keeping my own opinions because they rarely challenge them. I know, I could retain my own opinions with a debater/devil's advocate type, but I don't like debating either. It's too competitive for my liking. I guess just by asking the question, I think you have some doubt about long term compatibility. As others have said, time will give you the answers you seek.
Starry-eyed Posted May 24, 2007 Posted May 24, 2007 Now this is just me, but I like a man's mind to be sharp and at the same time somewhat mysterious to me, so that I could potentially take years to explore all its nooks and crannies. I don't only want an equal, I want someone who challenges me and of whom I'm a bit in awe at times. And I want him to have mastered areas of knowledge with which I'm unfamiliar. I like that feeling that he has an expertise which I lack. I so agree with this. IQ per se doesn't really matter, but intellectual interest, queries, seeking knowledge and sharing it, I have to have those things in a relationship. Someone who can challenge me, not just repeat my own ideas and opinions, and whom I can ocassionally challenge. Someone who can think in the abstract and has a broad knowledge base, a guy who knows things. Sexy. If an IQ difference of 50 points means that his IQ is 105, isn't that kinda low? I mean, what is "average" IQ? 105 just seems below average to me, but maybe I'm just not informed. Did you guys get tested at the same place, or do you know both of your IQ tests were legit and valid? (like not just internet tests .)
dropdeadlegs Posted May 24, 2007 Posted May 24, 2007 I think 100 is the baseline for "average" and that 120 is considered above average, and 140 is like superior or something. That's probably not accurate, but I think the scale jumps in 20 point increments.
Author bluetuesday Posted May 24, 2007 Author Posted May 24, 2007 bluetuesday, if someone asked me to name the five people on LS who most value the intellect and approach issues from an intellectual standpoint, you would be one of them. BTW, are you sexually attracted to him? How does this fit in with the celibacy thing, if you don't mind my asking? Are you thinking of taking a break? yeah, i know. i do value intellect in others, but i'm questioning myself because in him, it doesn't seem to matter. and i'm unsure whether that's because it really doesn't matter or because i've forgotten it matters because being around him is pretty damned amazing in other areas. i am aware of his hotness perhaps more than being outright sexually attracted to him. but he is such a nice guy i would also jump on his bones in a heartbeat. which has surprised me, but hey. i'm not made of stone! this guy is totally adorable inside and out. my ONLY slight problem is being unsure how much stuff we would have to talk about in years to come. right now, we can talk, talk, talk. but you know, i've seen him totally diffuse a stressful situation by saying exactly the right, reassuring thing to someone, i've seen him make an entire room of people laugh, i've seen him stand up and explain the circumstances of his life with emotion and insight. so maybe i am worrying about nothing. it's just that meeting him has been humbling, because i've placed so much stall on sharpness of mind in the past, that perhaps i've overlooked other qualities which are actually just as, if not more, important. i don't really want to be with oscar wilde, i want to be with this guy. Hey BT if you are so smart how come you are asking a bunch of strangers a question? i dunno. anonymity i suppose. and because you lot always make me think of things i hadn't thought of, which i really appreciate. While comfortable silences can be tender moments, don't you want to be able to have lightening banter or sit down to some serious discussions about topics of mutual interest? yes. but i wouldn't forego a great guy for lightning banter. i thought i would, but then i hadn't met this one yet. no other guy i've met can light up a room (and i don't mean by his beauty) as this one. I can definitely understand the bit about meaningful conversation. But you know something, you're not going to get everything you want in a partner - you're just not. Chances are, there are going to be some omissions somewhere, and sometimes those gaps might seem conspicuous. Who cares? You have to decide what's really important to you in a partner. i loved this response, thanks amerikajin. i have always believed that it's impossible to get everything from one person, and that has also been my experience. i've been with very smart guys who ain't that nice. or they're full of themselves, or their humour is cruel. i don't want that. and this guy seems keen to learn and curious about the world, which is what several people have asked about. The bottom line for me though would be the answer to this question: Do I have a lifelong companion in this person or is the attraction fleeting? That's a tough question to answer. And it involves a lot of introspection. It involves a lot of time too with the person in question, BT. Can you picture yourself with this person over the long haul? If he's not mentally challenging and interesting to you, can you live with that? Most friends come and go but your partner is supposed to be for life. Also, having an intellectual curiosity, is important. Maybe his IQ isn't as high as yours but does he have that thirst for knowledge and discovery about things. That can factor into your decision as well. i don't know if the attraction is fleeting, i've not known him long enough or deep enough. but i'm not attracted to him in the way i've been attracted to other people. i'm attracted to him inside out. like i want to crawl inside him because it's so beautiful in there. he makes me feel peaceful and he makes the world seem kinder for having him in it. Did you guys get tested at the same place, or do you know both of your IQ tests were legit and valid? (like not just internet tests .) yes, i frogmarched him to a testing centre within days of meeting him. it's amazing what you can get done in your lunch hour. actually, i'm guessing at his based on my dad's, which is about 100. mine was done by mensa a few years ago.
Diamonds&Rust Posted May 24, 2007 Posted May 24, 2007 pst... do you still use msn? (sorry. i don't have PM priveleges)
Author bluetuesday Posted May 24, 2007 Author Posted May 24, 2007 pst... do you still use msn? (sorry. i don't have PM priveleges) OMG! is that... almost famous? great to see you again! i think i deleted the messenger capability from my hard drive but i can download it once more. i don't use MSN now, i'm on skype. but i'll hook it up and see if you're online.
Art_Critic Posted May 24, 2007 Posted May 24, 2007 yes, i frogmarched him to a testing centre within days of meeting him. it's amazing what you can get done in your lunch hour. actually, i'm guessing at his based on my dad's, which is about 100. mine was done by mensa a few years ago. It amazes me that people shoot themselves in the foot so quickly.. Why did you do this ?? It seems to me that by talking to him you would've known he wasn't the same IQ as you.. You did this so you would have a way out.. Why do you need a way out ? He has to feel smaller/lower than you as it sits today..You ordered the test...how degrading it must've felt for him.
a4a Posted May 24, 2007 Posted May 24, 2007 I think 100 is the baseline for "average" and that 120 is considered above average, and 140 is like superior or something. That's probably not accurate, but I think the scale jumps in 20 point increments. I tested quite high (not stoned but on the IQ test) many moons ago..... look at me...... I make soap while naked and drive a tractor... and tell people about my bowel movements. I once was named "cream of the crop" in my class...... wtf happened to me? I fall into the category of retarded genius perhaps? I now desire to just stare at bright shiny things and rub fuzzy things on my skin. Farting is fun too......
Starry-eyed Posted May 24, 2007 Posted May 24, 2007 It amazes me that people shoot themselves in the foot so quickly.. Why did you do this ?? It seems to me that by talking to him you would've known he wasn't the same IQ as you.. You did this so you would have a way out.. Why do you need a way out ? He has to feel smaller/lower than you as it sits today..You ordered the test...how degrading it must've felt for him. Art Critic, I think she's kidding. At least, that's how I understood it. A little sarcasm. Doesn't sarcasm show intelligence?
a4a Posted May 24, 2007 Posted May 24, 2007 Art Critic, I think she's kidding. At least, that's how I understood it. A little sarcasm. Doesn't sarcasm show intelligence? sarcasm and wit are tied to the "gay gene"........ It's a inner ear thing as well.
Art_Critic Posted May 24, 2007 Posted May 24, 2007 Art Critic, I think she's kidding. At least, that's how I understood it. A little sarcasm. Doesn't sarcasm show intelligence? Oh.. Sorry BT..I thought you really did haul him to the testing office My mistake.. See what posting on LS with sleepy eyes will get you... again.. Sorry I jumped the track for a moment BT...
Author bluetuesday Posted May 24, 2007 Author Posted May 24, 2007 another shacker pointed your post out to me and i must say, it did make me giggle. oh art, i can't believe you took it seriously! do you know anyone who would even DREAM of taking someone to get an IQ test to prove their worth? if that person exists they're certainly not me. i am actually quite a nice gal, you know.
Art_Critic Posted May 24, 2007 Posted May 24, 2007 i am actually quite a nice gal, you know. I know.. I've always appreciated your posts... On the way into work this morning your thread was on my mind.. so the first thing I did when I got to work was check it.. I got my morning shot of embarrassment when I read the replies after mine and realized I misread you.. I guess that knocks about 10 IQ points off my IQ
Author bluetuesday Posted May 24, 2007 Author Posted May 24, 2007 I got my morning shot of embarrassment when I read the replies after mine and realized I misread you.. perfectly okay, my dear. you're among friends here. embarrassment is part of the game.
Storyrider Posted May 24, 2007 Posted May 24, 2007 i don't really want to be with oscar wilde... That's good since, as you probably know, Oscar Wilde swung the other way. like i want to crawl inside him because it's so beautiful in there. he makes me feel peaceful and he makes the world seem kinder for having him in it. This reminds me of something I would have said about my husband when we were first dating. He was one of the most amazing human beings I'd ever met. Our incompatibilities were not intellectual, but sexual. And they continue to be a problem. His soul and his character I'm still wild about. So, from that, I might predict that the intellect stuff will bug you eventually. It is just a question of how much and whether his good points will balance it.
Ariadne Posted May 24, 2007 Posted May 24, 2007 Oh, That guy sounds just like me. I want to paint pots for a living, or sell umbrellas, or something stupid like that. And people think I'm five and talk to me like I'm five. :o (Oh, and I went walking in the park and this retarded girl in a wheel chair wanted to hug me every time I crossed by her, so I did, every time) But bluetuesday, if your father was like that then maybe that's what you feel comfortable at home with. You know, the father thing. (Oh, I want to go to spiritual retreats to meet guys, what kind of retreat was that? a buddhist one, zen, what did they do? how many people?) Ariadne
Author bluetuesday Posted May 24, 2007 Author Posted May 24, 2007 That guy sounds just like me. you mean he sounds adorable or he sounds stupid? because if you're putting yourself down again i won't have it! not on my thread!! But bluetuesday, if your father was like that then maybe that's what you feel comfortable at home with. You know, the father thing. yes, he does remind me of my dad, who is calm and kind and uncomplicated. there's a lot to be said for calm and kind and uncomplicated. (Oh, I want to go to spiritual retreats to meet guys, what kind of retreat was that? a buddhist one, zen, what did they do? how many people?) there were only about 35 people there. it was talks and lectures and climbing trees (actually that was just me and the boy from jersey) and it could roughly be called a gathering for people who are interested in esoteric spiritual teachings. i found about it off the net and there were people from at least nine european countries there as well as folks who'd flown in from the states. it's the same group who keep holding retreats all over the world and this is about their eighth i think. i may join them again in LA over the summer. i highly suggest going on retreat, if you feel inclined. just make sure you find one where they don't all eat tofu, wear chunky knits and talk about their inner child.
Ariadne Posted May 24, 2007 Posted May 24, 2007 Hey, you mean he sounds adorable or he sounds stupid? because if you're putting yourself down again i won't have it! not on my thread!! Oh no, I was saying the truth. yes, he does remind me of my dad, who is calm and kind and uncomplicated. there's a lot to be said for calm and kind and uncomplicated. Yeah, maybe he is clever in different ways too, if he was making a room of people laugh etc. people who are interested in esoteric spiritual teachings Hmm, that doesn't help much. But I guess here in LA they must have some of those things. I used to go to some but I didn't find one I liked in particular (long sitting to meditate, boring etc) Thanks, Ariadne
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