WebGirl Posted May 23, 2007 Posted May 23, 2007 Hi everyone, I've been reading this board now for a few months and will say although the subject matter can be quite heartrending I have found it comforting to see a bit of myself in a lot of your posts. In any situation it is always a joy to find that you are not alone. I will save you the length of my story, but will tell you that I have been the OW for just about three years. It's not been easy, emotionally or mentally. I won't sit here and give excuses or try to rationalise it all, nor will I apologise or be made to feel bad about my decisions. To put it simply, it is what it is - he makes me happy and I love him. I'm not writing for advice on how to end it with MM or to bemoan my situation. Actually, I'm writing for advice on how to handle myself now that he is in fact getting divorced. I'll spare you all the details of how this came to be, but won't lie and say I'm not happy about it. Because, quite simply, I am. However, now that the separation is real and the wheels of divorce are in motion, I find that I have very mixed emotions about everything. From how to handle our relationship now, to how I feel about how things will play out in the months to come. He is handling it all very well. He has been seeing a therapist for over a year and half now. He has met with a lawyer. He has packed up a large amount of his possessions and put them into storage. He has moved into the second bedroom of their apartment. All that remains is to sell their place. But still living with his wife is obviously rife with emotional landmines. I know and understand that although this is what he has wanted, it is still a shock and will take time to accept, grieve and move on. He has been open and honest about everything that is happening. From how he feels about the situation, what they talk about and what he plans to do. It is never easy coming to terms with leaving a person that has been an integral part of your life for ten years, but I know he's doing the best he can. I am happy about how things are progressing, but I've some concerns that have been popping up since he told me about the divorce. Although being the OW is never fun, I will admit a certain amount of security in knowing that although he was not exclusively mine, I never feared that he would find someone else. As odd as this sounds (and believe me, the irony is not lost on me) - now knowing that he will be officially single soon enough, the possibility of him meeting someone "better", "smarter", "more beautiful" is now firmly planted in the back of my mind. He works with a lot of women (I know because we used to work together,) and I know how they all flirt with him. I also know that the only thing keeping them at their distance is the knowledge that he is married. Once it is out that he is single, well, I can only imagine. Insecurity and jealousy runs rampant. Say what you will about "he did it to his wife, he'll do it to you" - sure, this a possibility, but once he is single, we are susceptible to the pitfalls that surround all couples. My question is, did any of you have this sort of insecurity descend on you once your MM became single? My other question, and I'm not sure this is anything to do with him, but may be more about myself and my insecurities. Now that he is single, I am fearful that it will end. It's not that I think the secrecy of the relationship is what sustained us, but there was a level of understanding. I went about my life as usual and saw him when I saw him. And, I'm sure on some level this is partly what I found appealing about our arrangement. Please don't misread though, I am beside myself with the knowledge that we can now tell people, and that we can date openly and honestly. But, is it "normal" to feel this insecure about a relationship that's had a life of three years thus far? Is it simply me and lack of self-esteem? Please don't say it's because I never valued myself enough to begin with. Anything anyone has to say in that vein, please don't -- I've spent countless hours thinking about this affair from every angle, there is nothing that could be said here that I haven't already thought. Perhaps it is just your run of the mill fear of something you feel is so wonderful ending. Oh my, this went far longer than I had intended... but I just want to be as clear as I can. It's always a bit strange to feel like you know people when you've never even spoken to them before. But, I do hope you are all well.
whichwayisup Posted May 23, 2007 Posted May 23, 2007 now knowing that he will be officially single soon enough, the possibility of him meeting someone "better", "smarter", "more beautiful" is now firmly planted in the back of my mind. This can't be ignored and no, it's not you being insecure. At one time, he loved his wife, enough that they got married and built a life together (you didn't say, but do they have children?) and then he met you, all that changed. It would be unrealistic of you not to have these thoughts, he cheated on his first wife, he could easily do the same to you. I'm sure you wonder if you can fully trust him, knowing that he is/has been capable of lying. But, if you love him and want this to work, talk to him. You two could benefit by going to couples therapy too. The thing is, your affair was fun, sexy and intense, based all on feelings and needs that are there when relationships first start. All the good stuff. YOu've not lived with him so you don't know alot about him in a sense. GET to know him and see how it goes, dont' rush to go get married. Maybe you will change your mind, maybe he will. It will be different, not a hidden and secretive relationship anymore, the test is can you two survive out in the open and not behind closed doors... Suggestion - Read threads by oyster and ratingsguy. Could help you and also let you see that your MM is going to need time to adjust, be alone and sort through feelings before he starts a life with you. One can't just jump out of a marriage and hop into another full-on relationship - Especially one that you want to work out. If they do have children, put those kids first. His ex will be a part of your lives forever, so don't disrespect her or talk nasty about her either. Good luck.
Author WebGirl Posted May 23, 2007 Author Posted May 23, 2007 Thanks for the quick reply. I've always thought you very kind and understanding. They have no kids, which I agree, makes things a tad less complicated. Thanks for the suggestions to read oyster and ratingsguy posts, I'm sure they will be very helpful. I have no illusions that this transition will be easy for anyone involved. And, I do want this to work out. I truly believe it can. After three years, patience is a hard thing to come by. ;-)
Tomcat33 Posted May 23, 2007 Posted May 23, 2007 Webgirl First off, welcome aboard. After reading your post I can see the reasoning in what you are saying, in some twisted way it does make sense and what you are feeling is completely normal given your situation. There was some sort of security that he would not stray being with his W and being single, totally different story. For what it's worth you are feeling the same insecurities anyone might feel at the begining of a relationship. Your rel up until now has not been unilateral therefore there was no room for those natural feelings, now you will be going into another phase, the REAL one. I would ask you though, are your feelings also fueled by the idea that he cheated on his W and therefore you should be careful too or purely on the fact that he is now going to be single, something he has not been in a long time? Much like any kind of relationship of love we always run the risk that someone, better looking, smarter, more fun and exciting will come along and snatch away our object of affection. But that's a risk we ALL have to take going in to love. Learn to decipher between your own insecurities, vs the insecurities one feels when we become vulnerable to love, vs the feelings that dating a man that was already with someone when he met you, tend to generate. If it's your own feelings of insecurity you must learn to deal with those feelings and have more faith in yourself if it;s love that keeps you together there should be no reason why it would fail on you now. If it's the feeling of the new relationship, then maybe what you would benefit from is to talk to him openly about your feelings. To let him know what your concerns are, if you are going to embark in an honest and meaningful relationship with this man why not start now to be upfront and put it all on the line? Another option and I found myself asking this of my MM when Iwas with him was to ask him flat out how he feels about being single? Ask him if he doesn't need time to himself to adjust to his new status. I backed off from my man for a few months to let him adjust, and that's not a bad idea, I figured if he needed to blow off some steam that would be the time to do it, better that than while we were together down the road. Not only could you both benefit from this time apart it can help him heal in terms of the seperation as well, it is a breakup afterall, and he may not even be THINKIN of other women, he may just need time to himself to get his head together. If he loves you he will come around when he is ready. and won't feel the need to "sow his wild oats" That may prove to be what you just need, time apart to give him space to get over the marriage and re-adjust. It will also test his character. His reaction may be he absolutely doesn't need any time, in which case you have to choose to trust him, regardless of how dreamy he is and how many women flirt wth him. This is the man you waited for 3 yrs for and this is the man you should be ready to confront. Lastly therapy is always a good bet when dealing with difficult situations such as lack of trust in a rel.and therapy can give you the tools you need to deal with this type of rel. If you don't have trust for this man then you really have nothing and that's what will push him away eventually.
GiveAndTake Posted May 23, 2007 Posted May 23, 2007 Webgirl, First Off, If he does stray after he divorces, then as difficult as it would be, you'd have to know that he was with you for just the excitement and 'forbidden' factor and not love. And after 3 years, it was never going to be anything more. Having said that, I don't know if this is good news for you or not, but, the many married men that I've seen leave their wives, usually are insecure and clingy with their OW. (I've seen it with 3 different couples I can think of just off the top of my head) I suppose, it is possible that once they are over the 'scare' of leaving the one person that vowed to be with them forever and the thought of living their life all alone, that they could begin to have interest of living the single life but... Out of the 3 situations I can think of, the first OW married her MM and they are still together 10 years. The other 2 OW were smothered so badly, they had to end it.
sadbuttrue Posted May 23, 2007 Posted May 23, 2007 i can see why you would be concerned about him meeting someone new. and i do understand your thought that while he was married, you did not have to worry about such a thing happening. i myself have felt this way. anyway, it will be quite a change for the two of you when you start a "real" R. if the two of you really love each other and want to be together then i am sure you can work out whatever problems come your way.
Author WebGirl Posted May 23, 2007 Author Posted May 23, 2007 For what it's worth you are feeling the same insecurities anyone might feel at the begining of a relationship. Your rel up until now has not been unilateral therefore there was no room for those natural feelings, now you will be going into another phase, the REAL one. Well put. Thanks very much, truly, your post has put a lot into perspective. It's funny, I think I knew all this, I just needed to hear it from someone that's not living in my head and hasn't been a part of this whole situation. So, for that I thank you. I would ask you though, are your feelings also fueled by the idea that he cheated on his W and therefore you should be careful too or purely on the fact that he is now going to be single, something he has not been in a long time? Actually, they're not fueled by the knowledge that he was unfaithful to his wife. As foolish as I know this may sound to many, I trust him implicitly. And, I do believe it's simply because he will be single again. Much like any kind of relationship of love we always run the risk that someone, better looking, smarter, more fun and exciting will come along and snatch away our object of affection. But that's a risk we ALL have to take going in to love. Learn to decipher between your own insecurities, vs the insecurities one feels when we become vulnerable to love, vs the feelings that dating a man that was already with someone when he met you, tend to generate. Too right. It's been awhile since I've felt this vulnerable. I suppose it could be a combination of all three of those, but moreso the insecurity of being vulnerable and the irrational fear that it will end. If it's your own feelings of insecurity you must learn to deal with those feelings and have more faith in yourself if it's love that keeps you together there should be no reason why it would fail on you now. I truly need to get out of my own head for awhile. A short holiday. I think it needs it. ;-) I can't tell you how helpful you have been. Thank you so much for your post.
Tomcat33 Posted May 23, 2007 Posted May 23, 2007 I'm glad my thoughts brought you some comfort Webgirl I think that when we ask questions we already know the answers, so don't underestimate your own powers. Sometimes we just need to put our "crazy" thoughts out there, if only to see that they are really not all that crazy afterall. Too right. It's been awhile since I've felt this vulnerable. I suppose it could be a combination of all three of those, but moreso the insecurity of being vulnerable and the irrational fear that it will end. It really sounds like you are just in love. We all have those feelings when we fall in love. They say that part of what makes up that "in-love" feeling is the fear of loss. When we become more complacent or secure of our love we experience less of that "in-love" charge because the fear is not as prevalent. Sociologists advice couples that have been together for a long time to go to amusement parks to participate in scary rides, they also advice to go to the movies to watch a scary flic. Why? It tricks the brain into feeling fear, that combined with the shared experience of being with your honey triggers the same chemical waves that are triggered during the infatuation stage, or the "unknown" stage of courtship....go figure LOL We know so much yet when it comes to the brain we know so little...
Green Posted May 23, 2007 Posted May 23, 2007 HMA rules state u have to get real with you situation stop phantisizing and use those critical thinking skills youve heard so much about.
Author WebGirl Posted May 23, 2007 Author Posted May 23, 2007 HMA rules state u have to get real with you situation stop phantisizing and use those critical thinking skills youve heard so much about. Was this meant to be helpful? Yikes.
GreenEyedLady Posted May 23, 2007 Posted May 23, 2007 Was this meant to be helpful? Yikes. Yeah, that's what I thought too... As for your situation, I think that you're just in unknown territory and you're vulnerable...this time of uncertainty will eventually end...worrying never helped anything...appreciate what you have and enjoy it as long as it lasts...
LucreziaBorgia Posted May 23, 2007 Posted May 23, 2007 Understand that when anyone initiates and gets the divorce that they want, they are going to want to see what it is like to be single again for a while, and are going to soak up any ego strokes and flirting that comes their way simply to test the waters and see if they still 'have it'. A divorce is hard blow to take, even when you are the one who wants the divorce. Even if you are involved with someone before, during and after the divorce you still are left with a sense of disconnect, and a desire to see if people still find you objectively attractive as a single person. Does that mean he will cheat on you? Hard to say. I guess it depends largely on whether or not he's a cakeman type of guy - the sort who needs more than one woman to satisfy his needs. This is the worst type really - the sort who is capable of replacing his wife with an OW, and in turn finding a new OW to take up that vacant spot. or... Could be that it was an exit affair - the sort of affair you have when you intend to leave your marriage anyway, but are looking for the safety net of another person to get you through the process. These types divorce, then dump you because they don't need you anymore. No marriage to escape from = no need for OW anymore. or... Could be that it is just your guy will enjoy the female attention for a while with no real intention to cheat on you. Only time will tell - there is no way to predict what he will do. Just keep your eyes open, and your heart safe. But, is it "normal" to feel this insecure about a relationship that's had a life of three years thus far? I think its perfectly normal to feel insecure when you are involved with someone who has cheated on his wife.
Seen_It_All Posted May 23, 2007 Posted May 23, 2007 Just being very honest and talking from the gut, here. You watched this guy - for 3 full years - lie, deceive, and manipulate his wife into thinking her marriage was secure. If for 3 solid years he didn't tell her he was having an affair, then he was cheating on her, lying to her and gas-lighting her every single chance he got - period. Don't try to sugarcoat it because that's what it is. You probably heard him do it when she'd call on his cell phone and he was at your place. You probably heard him do it when you were at lunch with him or in bed with him, or driving in the car with him. Of course, you weren't at his house at night when he'd tell her he loves her and/or he'd talk to her about future plans. You probably weren't there when she was suspicious about something and questioned him, and he managed to gaslight her into thinking she was crazy. The bottom line - you've seen what he's REALLY made of for the last 3 years. There's no denying it. No wonder you're scared. I'd be too.
Lishy Posted May 23, 2007 Posted May 23, 2007 It is normal to feel insecure and worried when you are with a lying, cheating dirtbag! You have watched him lie for years and know all his snidey sly moves, of course you will feel insecure. I am glad that you finally have your man I just wonder how long it will be before you are in the BS dept and not the OW dept! Good luck (You need it)
Wibble Posted May 23, 2007 Posted May 23, 2007 Some rather harsh realities in those last 2 posts, but never the less they ARE realities. Statistically less than 4% of adulterous relationships go on to become successful, long term ones after divorce. No matter how much people think "I am different", would you bet your future happiness on those odds?
Author WebGirl Posted May 23, 2007 Author Posted May 23, 2007 Some rather harsh realities in those last 2 posts, but never the less they ARE realities. Statistically less than 4% of adulterous relationships go on to become successful, long term ones after divorce. No matter how much people think "I am different", would you bet your future happiness on those odds? I m not willing to bet but I am willing to work on my future with him. I would be delighted to be in that 4% success rate. Wish me luck. While there are facets of truths in the posts from Lishy and Seen_It_All, they can't really know what MM or myself are truly like. I'm afraid I will not be pulled into a position where I feel I need to defend myself or the MM. It's not what I came here for. I do thank you for the honest opinions, there are clearly some very strong feelings on this board so I will forgive the bitter tone in some of them, but do appreciate the support and thoughts.
Lishy Posted May 23, 2007 Posted May 23, 2007 Sorry if I sounded bitter! I am sad that you didnt feel that you deserved better for the last 3 years! I do wish you luck and I do hope it all works out for you - We ALL deserve happiness - I just wonder if a cheat can ever be happy or if you could ever trust him when he works late or has to go away on business! I do wish you all the best and I do reiterate that you need all the luck in the world to make this work!
HappyAtLast Posted May 23, 2007 Posted May 23, 2007 Your concerns are valid, regardless of how an R started, there is always the possibility that someone will come along and turn your spouse's head. Anyone who does not acknowledge that possibility is just plain foolish. No one knows what the future will bring for you. I left my W many many years ago and married my OW. I had no interest in living the single life, playing the field or whatever it is called these days. I still don't. Just because someone cheats in one R does not mean that they will cheat in another (nor does it mean that they will not cheat in another either). Every relationship is different. Good Luck to you....
Je Ne Regrette Rien Posted May 23, 2007 Posted May 23, 2007 Hi Webgirl, welcome to the board. I'm in a very similar situation to you. My MM was seperated, filed for D and we're in a "relationship" all within 1.5 years. The best of times, the worst of times. I have similar feelings to you from time to time. To be honest, he doesn't give me much ammunition. He's still incredibly loving and has really taken into account that we needed to start "dating" again to build a relationship from scratch instead of just diving into a heavier commitment. This is working for us. However, I would find it extremely difficult if he was still returning home every night. Even sleeping in the spare room would make my mind go completely haywire, I wouldnt feel secure in that situation. I wouldn't beat yourself up about being insecure. Its true, we have watched our MM's lie to their W's for a period of time, and that is going to have an effect on trust. I discussed this quite openly with MM and he also admitted that had trust issues himself - i.e. if I was willing to get involved with a MM would I ever do it again? Was I just in it for the excitement? Would I get bored of him? Would the responsibility that I have since taken on take its toll on us? How could he be more of a catch than a single guy who didn't have any strings attached? All sorts of fears came out. But it also opened my eyes to the fact I wasn't the only one worrying about this stuff. We both made the realisation that because of how our relationship started, we would have to work much harder at trust. So, if there's something we feel insecure about, the rule is, we have to say what it is and work it out. No hidden resentments, no unsubstantiated worries, no fear. I hope it works, but the great thing is that we're both willing to try as hard as we can. Happy at Last - thanks for the light at the end of the tunnel that you threw in
Author WebGirl Posted May 24, 2007 Author Posted May 24, 2007 However, I would find it extremely difficult if he was still returning home every night. Even sleeping in the spare room would make my mind go completely haywire, I wouldnt feel secure in that situation. Well, it's really a matter of finances at this point. Neither of them can afford to move out and pay rent on a new apartment while still paying the mortgage on their condo. None of his friends are in a position to play host for an indeterminate amount of time. It actually doesn't bother me as much I thought it would. He has been nothing but forthcoming with information and progress reports. I discussed this quite openly with MM and he also admitted that had trust issues himself - i.e. if I was willing to get involved with a MM would I ever do it again? Was I just in it for the excitement? Would I get bored of him? Would the responsibility that I have since taken on take its toll on us? How could he be more of a catch than a single guy who didn't have any strings attached? All sorts of fears came out. But it also opened my eyes to the fact I wasn't the only one worrying about this stuff. We've had similar discussions. He doesn't come right out and voice his insecurities as clearly as I do, but there is the offhand comment like, "You'll be bored of me." etc. And he is more than understanding when I talk about my concerns with him. They are almost always productive discussions. I'm not quite sure why it doesn't occur to me often enough that it is possible that he cares about me as much as I care for him. I don't know why I think this such an impossibility. Sometimes I just have to get ahold of myself, slow down and relax. We both made the realisation that because of how our relationship started, we would have to work much harder at trust. So, if there's something we feel insecure about, the rule is, we have to say what it is and work it out. No hidden resentments, no unsubstantiated worries, no fear. I hope it works, but the great thing is that we're both willing to try as hard as we can. I think this is a brilliant way to go about things. When everything is said and done, it is a relationship like any other. No, I am not proud of how things began, but I can't stand still thinking, "What if" and so on. I like how things are progressing and I am willing to work on having a healthy future with him. p.s. I'm so happy to hear someone else is going through this and with such a great outlook on it all. Best of luck to you both. cheers
GreenEyedLady Posted May 24, 2007 Posted May 24, 2007 Some rather harsh realities in those last 2 posts, but never the less they ARE realities. Statistically less than 4% of adulterous relationships go on to become successful, long term ones after divorce. No matter how much people think "I am different", would you bet your future happiness on those odds? Do you really think alot of couples whose M's that started adulterously ACTUALLY admit they started out as A's? That 4% is only out of the pool that actually admit they began from adultery...
Author WebGirl Posted May 24, 2007 Author Posted May 24, 2007 Do you really think alot of couples whose M's that started adulterously ACTUALLY admit they started out as A's? That 4% is only out of the pool that actually admit they began from adultery... Good call. I'm willing to bet that a lot of them don't. It's not as if my MM and I are going to tell people we've been dating for three years. No, the "official" dating will begin months after his divorce and can't imagine we'd be very forthcoming with that information except with those who've known about it from the very beginning.
annabelle75 Posted May 24, 2007 Posted May 24, 2007 Some rather harsh realities in those last 2 posts, but never the less they ARE realities. Statistically less than 4% of adulterous relationships go on to become successful, long term ones after divorce. No matter how much people think "I am different", would you bet your future happiness on those odds? At this point....YES! They have been together three years and now they finally get to be in a real relationship. If it doesn't work out, oh well. She is taking the same chances that anyone takes in a relationship. Good luck WebGirl. Don't let the so called "tough love" replies get to you.
Author WebGirl Posted May 24, 2007 Author Posted May 24, 2007 At this point....YES! They have been together three years and now they finally get to be in a real relationship. If it doesn't work out, oh well. She is taking the same chances that anyone takes in a relationship. Good luck WebGirl. Don't let the so called "tough love" replies get to you. Many thanks Annabelle. Truly. I know it was an imperfect beginning, but I hope to build something good from it. There's only so long you can berate yourself before you just tire of it and want to be happy. I'd rather be happy than give in to the belief that I'm awful/he's awful/this R is awful. Thank you for your support, you really have no idea how much it means.
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